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another skills invalid? WTF?

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  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Funny enough, they talked about the skill invalid issue yesterday on the Ten Forward weekly steam


    Jesse Heining mentions its something that resulted not only from them changing loadouts to include traits, which touches the skill system, but also from them fixing bugs related to some of the skills, and some of the traits, which causes the skill system to go think your skills are no longer valid. Mostly its them fixing bugs in skill/trait coding.

    Kael also mentions that, as the CM, he should have been involved in those conversations, but wasn't, as they weren't conversations the team had, they were just Devs fixing bugs, which is why he didn't inform anyone(he literally didn't know). He also mentions that the devs were likewise caught off guard by the skill retrains themselves, and apologizes for the hassle its caused.

    You are delusional beyond help. Like the regular guy watches this stream. That's why they have 10 of thousands of viewers when they stream right? ...

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • shadowkoshshadowkosh Member Posts: 1,688 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    What a good CM does is act as a communication barrier between players and devs so players know what is going on in the dev side and devs know what the players like or dislike or want so the devs can do their job.

    What a BAD CM does is stand there and spout verbatim what the devs say.

    What Kael does isn't even that. Or do that correctly.

    Seriously, the head QA guy had to come on the forum to do Kael's job...which is time out of doing his.

    Where did the QA guy come on here and post something can’t find it
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    > @bubblegirl2015 said:
    > Finally...
    >
    >

    Wtf? Really on twitter? Where is the official forums post?

    Sorry I wait with my respecs a few more patches....

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • grifithrkvgrifithrkv Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    "Steps have taken to avoid this in the future", give 0 security in retrain my skills. I dont will retrain the skills of my chars to log and discover another invalidate skills after one patch.
  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Considering it's not on the forum or launch pad+++

    Yeah, for someone like me without any social media. It's very hard having to go search on Reddit and Twitter.. Two platforms I don't use, instead of being informed via the official forums or the game launcher.

    Maybe they should get some kind of forum bot, something like Discord has? That copies the Twitter status into the news section on the forum or something?

  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,026 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Considering it's not on the forum or launch pad...no, not finally. Keal has STILL NOT DONE HIS BLOODY JOB.
    I've said this before, but it seems to yet again bear repetition: social media postings are meant to supplement and direct players to, not substitute for, official forum threads. Here, it could be a thread whose initial post can be modified to clarify the nature of the issue, and what is being done to address it, as the devs are able to nail down and relay to the CM.
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 988 Arc User
    It is a poorly-worded message with a run-on sentence—very Kael.

    How can we expect proper tweets, or forum posts, or even patch notes when the company is filled with functional illiterates?

    It is no wonder they consider the forum toxic. I doubt they have the reading comprehension to even understand the nature of our complaints...
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    If they are going to do all the announcements of this type via Twitter, then the launcher should have a link to that feed.

    There is still no way for any player that doesn't regularly check social media to know their skills are currently invalid. The bulk of the player base is flying around with this error and has no idea.

    At the very least it should be on the "official forum." Maybe then when something like this happens, they put a red banner on the launcher like they do with maintenance announcements.. something like "Player Skills are currently invalid.. please Check Official Forums for information."

    They could also use the in game announce system.

    Or you know.. just throw it out on twitter and forget about it.

    And Kael mentioning it on Twitch a few days after the fact might be enough for certain people.. not for me.

    Not good enough.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 895 Arc User
    There are at least two Cryptic owned ways of disseminating this information. The forums, or the news section of the site. These are what should be being used, not Twitter.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    @seaofsorrows made a good point about the launcher. They could use it for way more than what they do now.

    Them not even having the guts of opening a simple thread here - one that could also be closed immediately after the first post, if they don't feel like engaging with the community, though they ignore it entirely anyway so they could do the same in this instance - is just the cherry on top of an extremely hard to swallow cake.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,626 Arc User
    Funny enough, they talked about the skill invalid issue yesterday on the Ten Forward weekly steam

    There is actually nothing "funny" about it at this point.

    Whatever the causes may be, they simply need to make sure it doesn't happen anymore. That's really all there is to it.

    Don't worry, they are.

    Expect skills to go the way of the Foundry and Calendar sometime soon....

    PROBLEM SOLVED! (From a PWE perspective).
  • kurtronkurtron Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    What are they going to do, remove the game because it has become too hard to fix and maintain?

    Between the lack of communication to the player base, and the way they've keep breaking content, while releasing grossly overpriced digital items, all signs point to yes, the moment the game stops making its profit margins, it'll be gone. Likely sooner than later.
    I ain't meaning to sound all DOOM here, it's just a very definite impression Cryptic is leaving.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,164 Arc User
    Starting to wonder if the current devs have forgotten or are unware about the in game player messaging options. The old devs used to use it for major bugs like this. Not seen it used once with the current batch of devs.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    "People don't deserve it".

    And here we go: he can't find any possible way of justifying this mess, so he switch the blame around onto the players.
    So predictable.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 988 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    But som,

    The discussion here is relatively civil. There is some talk about a poorly-planed and unlikely boycott, but no one is threatening anyone nor teasing the developers’ mothers.

    The primary argument is that the company should address this problem on their website and not only on Twitter.

    That expectation is neither “toxic” nor unreasonable.

    So it might feel good, knowing that you listened to every livestream. I won’t deny you probably know the development plan better than anyone outside of Cryptic Studios.

    But denying reasonable requests with outdated arguments about other companies experiences is a weak-tea argument. I know you just come here to fight and stroke your ego, but come on!

    The bug sucks, and if Cryptic anticipated it—well they should fix it...or at least apologize for letting it continue for a month-and-a-half.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    reyan01 wrote: »
    What I don't understand is why gaming companies, and their cheerleaders, think they're beyond reproach?

    I mean, if ANY company provides a shoddy service, provides inaccurate information and ignores customer complaints/feedback, they get complaints. Just take a look at the 'comments' on the Facebook page of any cellphone service provider or electronic goods supplier - I guarantee it won't take long for you to find complaints pertaining to poor service.

    Why should game developers not be held to the same standards? What makes them so special that they can deliver a sub-par service and not be held to account for it?

    You wanna know why?
    Because it's entertainment. And it comes with a sense of entitlement from people - both pertaining to the industry and outside of it, meaning some players and fans - that make them think they're above any kind of reproach.

    What these people doesn't seem to understand is, imho, something crucial: we're not only players. We're *customers* and while I do not, by any mean, subscribe to the narrative of "the customer is always right", we're still the ones that are, indirectly, paying for their salaries.
    Or do they think that just because a CEO sign their checks they're not to be held responsible for their continued mistakes by the people that actually ALLOW that same CEO to sign anything by BUYING their product?

    This of course does not mean that they have to cather to our every whim, but that they should not disregard their playerbase as Cryptic is doing.
    And really, just go check the F.C.T thread and scroll down until you find this "jem" by tacofangs:

    "I know it's hard to swallow, but we ARE the ones to decide how something is going to be. We are the one's being paid to do so. You are welcome to disagree with us, and we will gladly listen to your opinion on the matter, and may even change something because of it, but at the end of the day, we are the developers of the game. We're always hiring, if you'd like to sit on this side of the fence, PLEASE APPLY!"

    This tell you all there is to know about this situation: they think themselves superior to the people that are actually paying for them to do their job, instead of trying to work WITH them - again, in a reasonable way.
    If I were to say, to one of my client, that "I'm the one to decide how something is going to be because YOU'RE paying me to do it" I would lose that client and the backlash would hurt me MONUMENTALLY.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    ONCE AGAIN, YOU PLAY TRIBBLE GAMES FROM TRIBBLE COMPANIES. This is in no way shape or form industry standard or norm or acceptable practices.
    >Anything that proves me wrong is just a bad game from a bad company
    I've seen similar problems from everything from Half Life 2 and CSGO to GTA. Its entirely normal, and is industry standard.

    Hell, there's articles from 3+ years ago talking about why developers have retreated in what was then recent years
    https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/09/game-designer-says-developers-would-be-more-candid-if-gamer-culture-wasnt-so-toxic/

    BWHAHAHHAHAHA...kotaku...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Now try an actual reliable source instead of a worthless trash ragebait website.

    That's a bit unfair... A lot of commentators reference kotaku articles. But as with anything, it is up to the individual to decide whether or not the content of the articles is newsworthy. Hell, there are people who choose to ignore info right from official sources because they don't like what they her/read. So it's really a moot point
    And really, just go check the F.C.T thread and scroll down until you find this "jem" by tacofangs:

    "I know it's hard to swallow, but we ARE the ones to decide how something is going to be. We are the one's being paid to do so. You are welcome to disagree with us, and we will gladly listen to your opinion on the matter, and may even change something because of it, but at the end of the day, we are the developers of the game. We're always hiring, if you'd like to sit on this side of the fence, PLEASE APPLY!"

    This tell you all there is to know about this situation: they think themselves superior to the people that are actually paying for them to do their job, instead of trying to work WITH them - again, in a reasonable way.
    If I were to say, to one of my client, that "I'm the one to decide how something is going to be because YOU'RE paying me to do it" I would lose that client and the backlash would hurt me MONUMENTALLY.

    Indeed...

    The truth is, every company is "Always hiring." Nothing stops people from submitting applications. It doesn't mean that they will actually hire any applicant. And honestly, it's the EP/Lead Dev that decidesb things. And I am fairly certain that their position is always up for grabs. So Taco's statement is just BS in that regard. No company can effectively operate 100% within a vacuum.

    The truth is, while PWE may sign their paychecks, they are, in fact, accountable to us. We have the power to simply choose not to give them any money. No money, no more paychecks from PWE. Of course, enough of us won't exercise that power, because SHINIES! but we do HAVE that power.

    Once again: perfectly put.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
This discussion has been closed.