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STO Lootboxes and Terrible Drop Rates.

dicehunter#4931 dicehunter Member Posts: 17 Arc User
So I'd like to get 1 of the ships from inside the Infinity Lockbox but wanted a little more information for drop rates etc... so I asked a friend who recently dropped a stupid amount of money on Zen followed by buying 50 x 10 key packs resulting in 500 keys, Absolutely nuts.

Anyway he thought with 500 keys and well over $300 spent he'd be guaranteed 1 of the T6 ships...nope, 500 keys and no T6 ship or Infinity Prize Pack - T6 Ship as it's known, I know STO has basically turned into a predatory mobile pay game now, As many are calling it now, But that is insane, The most I'd ever spend is maybe $40, Never $300 on what is basically nothing.

Devs, You guys need to change these abysmal drop rates, I get you have to pay the bills for the server, Developers, Maintenance etc... but this isn't just bad, It's supremely greedy.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • daimon97daimon97 Member Posts: 368 Arc User
    So I'd like to get 1 of the ships from inside the Infinity Lockbox but wanted a little more information for drop rates etc... so I asked a friend who recently dropped a stupid amount of money on Zen followed by buying 50 x 10 key packs resulting in 500 keys, Absolutely nuts.

    Anyway he thought with 500 keys and well over $300 spent he'd be guaranteed 1 of the T6 ships...nope, 500 keys and no T6 ship or Infinity Prize Pack - T6 Ship as it's known, I know STO has basically turned into a predatory mobile pay game now, As many are calling it now, But that is insane, The most I'd ever spend is maybe $40, Never $300 on what is basically nothing.

    Devs, You guys need to change these abysmal drop rates, This isn't just bad, It's supremely greedy.

    It is sheer luck and gambling nothing more. I opened 10 boxes the other day got 1 T6 infinity ship and 1 T5. There was a time where I opened 40 and got nothing useful. Its all luck. Dont bother opening boxes just sell keys for EC and buy your ship like that
  • dicehunter#4931 dicehunter Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    daimon97 wrote: »
    It is sheer luck and gambling nothing more. I opened 10 boxes the other day got 1 T6 infinity ship and 1 T5. There was a time where I opened 40 and got nothing useful. Its all luck. Dont bother opening boxes just sell keys for EC and buy your ship like that

    After seeing the odds of actually getting a T6 I don't want to gamble and this is gambling in every sense of the word, I'll just buy a few keys each month and do as you stated and sell them.
  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    The only reason for the T5 pack anymore is to lower the chances on getting a T6. The more the potential rewards the less chance at the top reward
  • dicehunter#4931 dicehunter Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The only reason for the T5 pack anymore is to lower the chances on getting a T6. The more the potential rewards the less chance at the top reward

    Yep, I've looked at the potential items you can get from a lockbox and it's really not that much but the odds at getting the T6 token is utterly ridiculous, For it to be a guaranteed drop you'd need to spend well over $1000 on this gambling.

  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The only reason for the T5 pack anymore is to lower the chances on getting a T6. The more the potential rewards the less chance at the top reward

    Yep, I've looked at the potential items you can get from a lockbox and it's really not that much but the odds at getting the T6 token is utterly ridiculous, For it to be a guaranteed drop you'd need to spend well over $1000 on this gambling.

    Yes and that is why usually the best way to get a ship is have the old boxes that introduced the ship in the game opened, rather than infinity. Just save a bunch of boxes when a ship you want gets introduced cause later they stop dropping and infinity becomes the only way(unless someone is selling old boxes in exchange)
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    The infinity box used to be a pretty decent proposition for getting weapons and what not rather than gambling for ships but nowadays they just went to town with the padding items. To clarify, decent when compared to their other gamble boxes not decent in terms of the monetary value of the key used to unlock the thing.

    For example the doff packs are each a single filler rather than being dropped into a choice box the way weapons were. This is on top of the multiple entries for junk like R&D packs, bits from inside the R&D packs and the various boosters.

    And of course the randomised amount of lobi which is invariably terrible in comparison to the asking prices in the overpriced store.
  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    Last time I saw someone posting odds, it was 0.5% chance to get a T6 ship. You're much better off selling keys and buying the ship off of the exchange. (People go onto the tribble and redshirt servers, and open boxes there, because you can do it without spending real money, and then tabulate the results.)
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The only reason for the T5 pack anymore is to lower the chances on getting a T6. The more the potential rewards the less chance at the top reward

    Yep, I've looked at the potential items you can get from a lockbox and it's really not that much but the odds at getting the T6 token is utterly ridiculous, For it to be a guaranteed drop you'd need to spend well over $1000 on this gambling.

    It is never guaranteed, there's always a chance you won't get one no matter how many you open. The more you open the more likely you are to get at least one ship, but those odds never actually hit 100% and as far as I know Cryptic has never implemented any kind of bad luck protection into it. I personally have only gambled on 3 ships. The JJPrise is the only lockbox ship I gambled on, and after 80 boxes I have up and purchased one from the exchange, then opened ~20 more on my Klingon and got the JJ bird of prey which I then sold for twice what I had paid for the JJPrise. So approximately 100 boxes got my only lockbox win.

    My other two were the Jem'Hadar Strike Ship and the Temporal TOS Connie, both of which I got extremely lucky with and won after only opening 2 or 3 Promoboxes each. That is definitely NOT the norm though, just amazing luck.
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  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The only reason for the T5 pack anymore is to lower the chances on getting a T6. The more the potential rewards the less chance at the top reward

    Valid assessment.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The only reason for the T5 pack anymore is to lower the chances on getting a T6. The more the potential rewards the less chance at the top reward

    Are the odds of getting a T6 prize actually lower than getting the ship from a normal lockbox? I always assumed it was equal, with the T5 prize pack having a higher chance and the other items having a lower than normal chance to compensate for the existence of the T5. Just because they're are more options doesn't automatically mean the T6 has lower odds because the odds are different for each item, 0.5% is still 0.5% whether there are only 2 or as many as 2000 other possibilities.
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  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The only reason for the T5 pack anymore is to lower the chances on getting a T6. The more the potential rewards the less chance at the top reward
    Its actually because theres still like a dozen or so T5 lockbox ships that don't have a T6 version, so removing the T5 drop would just remove those ships from the game.

    I do think they should prioritize making those ships have a T6 version, so they can remove it, but that's another issue entirely.

    Yes agreed but I think they could just move the T5s into lobi store and get a PR win while waiting for the rest to get a T6 version. I am also not sure if they plan for the Mirror ones like Mirror VoQuv T5 to get a T6. Those mirror ships dont have the option to be upgraded to T5U either so only reason to buy one is the skin unlock. Alternate could be just make them avaliable on the ship selling npc as I dont think they merit a UR token for phoenix shop
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    There's a reason why I say only open boxes if you're interested in the low and mid-level rewards. If you're looking for the Rare Prize, you'll just be disappointed.


    Personally, I've only gotten one semi-rare ship in years & many many boxes (all keys gotten via EC or dil->zen). The Herald Quas cruiser.
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    as everyone else said, it's luck. I spent I think it was $10 on zen, bought R&D packs and walked away with the temporal connie. @vetteguy904 did something simular and scored both the connie and the D7. I figure I don't go to Starbucks a few times and I free up a few dollars to keep the lights on around here. if I win I win of not.. the lights are on for an hour
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  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    Though it isn't really luck even if it is the closest thing current technology can do to simulate luck. It is a programmed algorithm which no one knows except probably Cryptic, maybe PWE, about it's processed rules & parameters of the calculations since Cryptic doesn't have to, & won't, publish the official odds. It's a bit different than a physical raffle or a Willy Wonka ticket, this is all digital & is being tracked for analysis & can be changed. Yes it can even be coded to select winners & losers too, but we're left to trust that it isn't. I despise how online gambling has permeated mmos & fear the gambling gets more & more focus instead of the game itself, but "it is what it is," so it's an easy choice: participate in it or not. Just because I might think it's a terrible practice doesn't mean another does so if they indulge, good luck to them. I've learned I enjoy more in knowing what Im buying & my good luck with STO has been very drought-like.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,820 Arc User
    Cryptic is not going to make any changes to how loot boxes work. They are plugged into PWE's business model.

    Don't worry... some countries are cracking down on loot boxes in games and fining the hell out of companies on grounds of violating that country's gambling laws. It's only a matter of time before PWE reaps the whirlwind for them as well.

    If/when that does happen then they're gonna be be in Mudd's market....it's a sad day when EA is less scummy than Cryptic

    EA in SWTOR planned a long time ago for the eventual collapse of loot boxes so they began selling almost any obtainable gamble box item on their store. You could either obtain the item for a large cost or you could still do boxes. But Cryptic on the other hand put in Mudd's market when it looked like things were getting questionable in the US, then covid came alone and things quieted down...so they're happy to be as greedy as possible to milk the whales.

    EA of all people offered a alternative while I'm guessing Cryptic will be predatory till the day gamble boxes are made illegal in the US
  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Cryptic is not going to make any changes to how loot boxes work. They are plugged into PWE's business model.

    Don't worry... some countries are cracking down on loot boxes in games and fining the hell out of companies on grounds of violating that country's gambling laws. It's only a matter of time before PWE reaps the whirlwind for them as well.

    If/when that does happen then they're gonna be be in Mudd's market....it's a sad day when EA is less scummy than Cryptic

    EA in SWTOR planned a long time ago for the eventual collapse of loot boxes so they began selling almost any obtainable gamble box item on their store. You could either obtain the item for a large cost or you could still do boxes. But Cryptic on the other hand put in Mudd's market when it looked like things were getting questionable in the US, then covid came alone and things quieted down...so they're happy to be as greedy as possible to milk the whales.

    EA of all people offered a alternative while I'm guessing Cryptic will be predatory till the day gamble boxes are made illegal in the US

    There is a huge difference in SWTOR(which I play every day). Apart that items got rotationally in discout the most expensive item is 5500 cartel points. Thats is 35 euros as you can see in

    https://www.swtor.com/buy

    Now compare that with the most expensive things here or usual mudd prices and you see Cryptic prices way more
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Infinity Lockbox 1:250
    Infinity Promo 1:100
    Phoenix 1: Number too high to be serious

    Since Infinities became a thing I've gotten 7 Infinity Promos and 3 Lockbox (2 Infinity, 1 Kelvin). I've gotten 1 Epic and 2 UR Phoenix Tokens. I've also probably gotten 35-40 T5 Ship Choice Boxes. The number of Phoenix boxes opened is over 1,300. I've also purchased numerous Ships from the Exchange, which provides 100% chance to get your desired ship.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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    l don't know.
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    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Infinity Lockbox 1:250
    Infinity Promo 1:100
    Phoenix 1: Number too high to be serious

    Since Infinities became a thing I've gotten 7 Infinity Promos and 3 Lockbox (2 Infinity, 1 Kelvin). I've gotten 1 Epic and 2 UR Phoenix Tokens. I've also probably gotten 35-40 T5 Ship Choice Boxes. The number of Phoenix boxes opened is over 1,300. I've also purchased numerous Ships from the Exchange, which provides 100% chance to get your desired ship.

    The rarities may explain also lockbox ships have rised to sky approaching promo box prices. Most lockbox ships I check on tend to be between 750 and 950m.

    One example is
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Na'Qjej_Intel_Battlecruiser

    900m last week when I checked
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    As more desirable ships are added to infinity, the rarer each becomes individually, and the more valuable the pack.

    Same with Zen Store offerings, making Zen more valuable over Dilithium, raising the Dil-Ex prices, which trickles down to raising most other in-game items. With (by my estimate) fewer players, and fewer out of those still playing doing the gambling, the greater the rarity and again higher the costs.

    To top it all off, Cryptic does not value existing items. They just replace them in short order with more powerful variations, or worse, the item as a whole gets nerfed or falls off the meta altogether.

    SWTOR seems to be doing things exceptionally well, with huge player numbers to reflect that, and the fleetmates I played with mostly left for that, rightfully so. I'm trying to explore that too despite having zero interest in SW IP.
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  • fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
    Last time i played swtor the updates were sooo lagged it took 2 hours and i was forced to stop playing.
    Never could figure out why it took sooo long to update.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    I hsve not played SWTOR since before it went Free to Play... Have they adopted a secondary currency system like Dilithium which can be traded for cartel points? If not, then there is no real comparison between games.

    [...]

    Do we only play the game to get shinies?

    Isn't he game fun and engaging enough that we play it without them dangling a carrot in front of us?
    I have asked and been told no real need for cartel coins except for just a few things, and anything can be bought from the player exchange using F2P and they are really the cheapest from any big MMO.

    Shinies make up and tie into part of the gameplay. My concern with STO is the online multiplayer gameplay problems that will clearly never be addressed, not the endless shinies and rewards. I only play STO in 'maintenance mode' now, essentially minimal grind.
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  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    Yep, I've looked at the potential items you can get from a lockbox and it's really not that much but the odds at getting the T6 token is utterly ridiculous, For it to be a guaranteed drop you'd need to spend well over $1000 on this gambling.

    Wouldn't be guaranteed even then. Welcome to a poor version of Las Vegas. The actual odds, I believe, have been determined to be more like 200:1. But contrary to some people's belief, you would have to beat those odds on each roll of th......... opening of the box. Depending on your luck, you could get the big prize on the first try, or potentially never get one, no matter how many keys you buy and use.
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