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Add Catians to TOS starfleet.

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  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,774 Arc User
    True. But can we all agree that JJ somehow managed to royally TRIBBLE up the catians in his films. I mean seriously, those twins were meant to be catians? I think he's been looking at too much henti, they looked more like nekos

    It could also be case of trying to separate JJ Trek from the furry fandom, Star Trek has anthropomorphic Pigs/Boars (Tellarites), anthropomorphic Cats (Caitians, Ferasans, Kzinti), anthropomorphic Reptiles (Gorn, Voth, Saurians), there's also that anthropomorpic Bird race that Dr. Migleemo the therapist with food metaphors from Lower Decks is a part of.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    there's also some of the xindi races, the anticans and selay and the skorr, the anthro bird people from TAS...who are apparently NOT migleemo's species, so now we have TWO anthro birb races - both of which i want, either as playables or even just as boffs/doffs​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    i don't think they WERE meant to be caitians - that guy who said they were to a question about it clearly didn't actually know what a caitian was

    Actually, they were meant to be caitian, the writers said that in interviews, and the shooting script describes them as caitian. Needless to say they were not happy with the abominations in the movie.

    Abrams was hesitant to use them and wanted to tone down the cat features a bit (a likely theory is that he was worried about backlash from viewers seeing it as beastiality), to something more like nekkos (which the twins are not, the lack the ears and eyes and the only (vaguely) cat feature they have are the tails, and those look more like monkey tails than cat) instead of an anamorphic furry.

    The biggest problem was that M'ress's features were a kind of illusion that is easy to do in drawings but nearly impossible to do physically without the result looking freakish and ugly. For one thing she didn't have a muzzle as such, she had that split upper lip and a modified but still mostly human nose. On top of that all the attempts to put fur on the actresses' faces came out looking like something out of one of the old Lon Chaney wolfman movies, and ended up rejected.

    Then the makeup department came up with the idea of using that variant of screened makeup to suggest a very very fine and patterned fur which would work in the low lighting of the scene. Unfortunately, when they tried putting a swath of it on to test the idea and went to Abrams to see what he thought of it he took it as the final version and said to stop working on alternates and they would go with that exact makeup. So we end up with what looks more like Trill with the spots running down the center of their faces and having monkey tails instead of anything resembling caitians in the least.

    I don't believe that story, looking at the design studies:

    https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_trek/sexy-star-trek-into-darkness-alien-twins-couldve-looked-much-more-interesting-a85120

    If they were supposed to be caitian, why do those concepts in the first place?​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    angrytarg wrote: »
    i don't think they WERE meant to be caitians - that guy who said they were to a question about it clearly didn't actually know what a caitian was

    Actually, they were meant to be caitian, the writers said that in interviews, and the shooting script describes them as caitian. Needless to say they were not happy with the abominations in the movie.

    Abrams was hesitant to use them and wanted to tone down the cat features a bit (a likely theory is that he was worried about backlash from viewers seeing it as beastiality), to something more like nekkos (which the twins are not, the lack the ears and eyes and the only (vaguely) cat feature they have are the tails, and those look more like monkey tails than cat) instead of an anamorphic furry.

    The biggest problem was that M'ress's features were a kind of illusion that is easy to do in drawings but nearly impossible to do physically without the result looking freakish and ugly. For one thing she didn't have a muzzle as such, she had that split upper lip and a modified but still mostly human nose. On top of that all the attempts to put fur on the actresses' faces came out looking like something out of one of the old Lon Chaney wolfman movies, and ended up rejected.

    Then the makeup department came up with the idea of using that variant of screened makeup to suggest a very very fine and patterned fur which would work in the low lighting of the scene. Unfortunately, when they tried putting a swath of it on to test the idea and went to Abrams to see what he thought of it he took it as the final version and said to stop working on alternates and they would go with that exact makeup. So we end up with what looks more like Trill with the spots running down the center of their faces and having monkey tails instead of anything resembling caitians in the least.

    I don't believe that story, looking at the design studies:

    https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_trek/sexy-star-trek-into-darkness-alien-twins-couldve-looked-much-more-interesting-a85120

    If they were supposed to be caitian, why do those concepts in the first place?​​

    I don't know why or even if they drew up those concepts for the caitians the writers specified in the script. Perhaps they were playing with alternate ideas for other races in case the caitian makeup proved impossible to do in a way that Abrams would approve. And the ones published in that article are almost only the more far out ones, if you look at all of the concepts she drew up most of them concentrate on the stripes or other patterns what would work for the very fine fur specification. Take a look here to see what I mean:

    http://mauryruiz.com/wp/?page_id=646

    Even then, there was a lawsuit about Kirk having sex with aliens, just think how much worse it would have been if they were full out furrys.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,774 Arc User
    flash525 wrote: »
    I don't get why the TOS and DISCO factions have such a limited choice.

    If my memory serves, TOS doesn't even have the Tellarite option, and DISCO is lacking both the Tellarite and Andorian (despite them both being active in Starfleet as admirals at this time). I get not enabling the Bajoran, Benzite or Cardassian, but to gloss over the founding members of the Federation?

    Couldn't Cryptic have allowed for a little more originality too? Give something unique to DISCO or TOS players? Kelpien for DISCO, maybe Deltan for TOS (I'm thinking cause of TMP film).

    I'd like to point out that we've seen Saurian's on Discovery, and Caitian's in TMP(era); they're both available for the 2409 timeline despite neither of them having appeared in TNG, DS9 or VOY.

    Vulcan's would not be happy with the lack of logic here.

    It wouldn't make sense to have playable DSC Kelpian captains since Saru was the only Kelpian in Starfleet at the time, however putting Kelpians in the C-store for regular 25th century Feds could work, I find it weird that Denobulans aren't a playable option despite captain Taggart being one, since I haven't watched ENT before playing this game I originally mistook him as a half Klingon like Torres.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    flash525 wrote: »
    I don't get why the TOS and DISCO factions have such a limited choice.

    If my memory serves, TOS doesn't even have the Tellarite option, and DISCO is lacking both the Tellarite and Andorian (despite them both being active in Starfleet as admirals at this time). I get not enabling the Bajoran, Benzite or Cardassian, but to gloss over the founding members of the Federation?

    Couldn't Cryptic have allowed for a little more originality too? Give something unique to DISCO or TOS players? Kelpien for DISCO, maybe Deltan for TOS (I'm thinking cause of TMP film).

    I'd like to point out that we've seen Saurian's on Discovery, and Caitian's in TMP(era); they're both available for the 2409 timeline despite neither of them having appeared in TNG, DS9 or VOY.

    Vulcan's would not be happy with the lack of logic here.

    It wouldn't make sense to have playable DSC Kelpian captains since Saru was the only Kelpian in Starfleet at the time, however putting Kelpians in the C-store for regular 25th century Feds could work, I find it weird that Denobulans aren't a playable option despite captain Taggart being one, since I haven't watched ENT before playing this game I originally mistook him as a half Klingon like Torres.

    I thought the same thing about the Efrosian president in the movies at first, they have a subdued version of the Klingon forehead and fu manchu moustaches similar to a style some of the Klingons wore. I think the movie makeup designers were running out of ideas with all the crowd scenes taking up designs for seconds-long bits of screen time and started repeating themselves.

  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 525 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    otherwise I want Lt Arrexx

    Well... we did see a member of his species in Lower Decks...

    I'm wondering if the problems of animating that for crew/captain actions might have been part of the reason for the original call capping it before TAS. It also lets them mess up the Caitians to do the legs wrong. M'ress was more like a cat standing on its hind feet, rather than the 'cats with human bodies' we got with ST6 and Lower Decks.​​
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    tasshena wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    otherwise I want Lt Arrexx

    Well... we did see a member of his species in Lower Decks...

    I'm wondering if the problems of animating that for crew/captain actions might have been part of the reason for the original call capping it before TAS. It also lets them mess up the Caitians to do the legs wrong. M'ress was more like a cat standing on its hind feet, rather than the 'cats with human bodies' we got with ST6 and Lower Decks.​​

    That would depend on how the feet were formed and rigged in the STO character models. The "dogleg" that M'ress had was actually like a human with short thighs walking on some kind of extended high heel shoe so lengthening the arch section of the foot and putting the model on its toes would be easy if the ankles are rigged in a way that would allow it. If not, that would complicate things considerably and could potentially bug every character in the game.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    that 'dogleg' has a name, you know - it's called digitigrade, as opposed to the plantigrade style most humanoids have

    there's also unguligrade, which is reserved specifically for things with hooves, like horses, but that doesn't apply here since star trek doesn't have a sapient horse species​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Since Kael said they will be adding Kelpians in the future they're probably working on a digitigrade running animation if they don't already have one, so that wouldn't be an issue with adding them in the future. I doubt that would have been an issue in the past either tbh.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Since Kael said they will be adding Kelpians in the future
    I don't think he ever said this. He said they got permission from CBS to add Kelpians, not that its in the plans to do it.

    I may have slightly exaggerated what he said (I forget his exact wording), but given they previously said they wanted to add them and then just recently said they now have permission to do it I think it's fair to say that it's in the works, even if it's just at the planning stage.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    "In the works" could mean, it's one of countless ideas on the "board" for new ideas and that no actual research is done yet. As pointed out previously depending on how their models are built modding the base skeleton for player chatacters might not be an easy task.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,774 Arc User
    You can give your Caitian digitigrade legs with certain Risa pants, but I'm not sure which.
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 670 Arc User
    TAS is canon
    TMP is canon
    ST4 is canon
    Caitians appeared in TAS which is set in 2270
    Caitians appeared in TMP which is set in 2272
    Caitians appeared in ST4 which is set in 2285
    AOY I set in 2270, I don’t see why they can’t have Caitians, but for some reason Cryptic have decided not to include them.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    Honestly I wish the AoY faction was based around the twok/tmp timeline, maybe at the point after Kirk's disappearance, I'm sure they could've made it work but with different events.
  • bcstarbcstar Member Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    I just made a TOS character for the first time about 3-4 hours ago, it was really good I Thought. Little bit Twilight Zone for me when almost watching the ships hearing the sounds ETC and feeling that Golden Era of the late 1960's

    In regards of adding them. It is a toss up for me, I never found interest in "Cat People" as Aliens in comparison where are all the K9 Aliens? but like I said I really Enjoyed the TOS starting part. In all I suppose We should almost Have a Fan Fiction page for CBS and Cryptic in these forums to flesh out ideas regarding story lines and plot holes to perhaps, influence the entire story. Which reminds me I need a TV Above my computer and hook up Netflix so I can start watching from original series all the way to current ones... And all the Back story's of the Episodes in the game. To get the full picture Lol!

    Edit: Hmm perhaps ill go through All the content, watch all the movies, read some ST Novels. Then mingle in writing some decent fan fiction myself. :smile:
    klingon%2Bbird%2Bof%2Bprey.jpg

    "bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"

    Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    The TOS character os not about the era, it's about the TV show. Notice the film grain? That's why they didn't include anything else. It's for the show's anniversary.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • varethaelvarethael Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    Yeah, more and more "stories", but limited to humans, andorians, vulcans and tellarites... then why we bought caitians ?


    Another Ferengi trade... zens for useless items.
This discussion has been closed.