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Ten Forward Weekly 10/28/20

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  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The most likely is we will get a 1ship pack like the romulan one cause we simply do not matter much.
    Or, you know, because there are really only two KDF ships that are really considered iconic enough to be legendary, those being the BoP and the D7. Compared to the Feds who have been the focus of every TV series and movie,and thus, have a lot more iconic ships as a result.

    I know its hard to imagine, but not everything is a conspiracy.

    Didn't stop them throwing in an STO ship that never saw a single show or TV show did it?
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    For the Klingons I could easily see:

    Bird of Prey
    D-7
    D-7 (Kelvin)
    D-7 (Disco)
    Negh'Var
    Raptor (Enterprise era, with upgrade)
    Vor'cha
    Bortasque (Klingon version of Oddy)

    Right there you have 8 ships, 6 of which are on screen and two are versions of the Fed ships (Bort and Kelvin D-7, and the Kelvin D-7 is accepted as the version as it's been in other games as well).
    Wouldn't be hard to find another 2 ships for a bundle if they wanted...a science ship perhaps?
    I'd love a legendary Mat'ha raptor, just because.

    Even if they went with just those 8 ships that could be an excellent bundle and includes a great selection of screen ships.

  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The most likely is we will get a 1ship pack like the romulan one cause we simply do not matter much.
    Or, you know, because there are really only two KDF ships that are really considered iconic enough to be legendary, those being the BoP and the D7. Compared to the Feds who have been the focus of every TV series and movie,and thus, have a lot more iconic ships as a result.

    I know its hard to imagine, but not everything is a conspiracy.

    Its a matter of design, and cryptic has done its share of made up designs. Lets go to the flagship bundle for example, is Bortasqu' an iconic flagship of the show. No it was a design decision of the time.

    Likewise STO isnt the only game faced with similar challenges. SWTOR's star wars theme has a heavy focus on the Jedi but no class is disdavantaged and both factions get constantly things.

    I will tell you only a thing and leave it there. When you are on the privileged side of things its easy to mumble about "how these ungrateful peons living outside the oasis in the middle of the desert complain". Yes I know its not on purpose, but sometimes you need to place yourself in the shoes of those that do not get what you get before judging things.
  • terlokiterloki Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think you missed my point. How would you feel if you got asked the same question over and over, no matter what answer you gave? This has nothing to do with what the answer is, or if its acceptable to those asking the questions. It has everything to do with the person being asked the question.

    Lets say you're doing a livestream and you answer a question. How would you react to having that same question you just answered come up again and again 5 minutes later?
    For my part... I'd start getting a bit annoyed honestly.

    Yeah, as someone who gets asked the same questions over and over again for a living, I can confirm that this is indeed the case. Customer service is FUN![/sarcasm]

    Seriously, the obliviousness of some people is just mind-blowing. It's one thing not to read all the patch notes or listen to every podcast, but it's quite another to ask where the lobby is while you're STANDING IN IT!

    Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser
    Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
    General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    Didn't stop them throwing in an STO ship that never saw a single show or TV show did it?
    The Oddy is the hero ship of STO.

    And right there you've opened it up to other ships being legendary from STO and not just the show. We can now look at a lot more than just the 7-8 ships from the movies/show.
    It would be ridiculously easy to do a 10 ship pack now.

    Bird of Prey
    D-4 (Kelvin) - I forgot this one on the other list
    D-7
    D-7 (Kelvin)
    D-7 (Disco)
    Negh'var
    Raptor (Enterprise era)
    Vor'cha
    Bortas'que

    There's 9 ships all from movies/shows and the Klingon STO "hero" ship. Throw in one more STO ship (maybe a science one) and you have a perfect 10 ship set.

    Now - what reason would there be to NOT do this set? It would make the Klingon players ecstatic, it would give a lot of players a reason to get into playing Klingons and they've already done some new skins for a lot of those ships...I really don't see any downside to giving Klingon players parity on the legendary pack.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Didn't stop them throwing in an STO ship that never saw a single show or TV show did it?
    The Oddy is the hero ship of STO.

    And right there you've opened it up to other ships being legendary from STO and not just the show. We can now look at a lot more than just the 7-8 ships from the movies/show.
    It would be ridiculously easy to do a 10 ship pack now.

    Bird of Prey
    D-4 (Kelvin) - I forgot this one on the other list
    D-7
    D-7 (Kelvin)
    D-7 (Disco)
    Negh'var
    Raptor (Enterprise era)
    Vor'cha
    Bortas'que

    There's 9 ships all from movies/shows and the Klingon STO "hero" ship. Throw in one more STO ship (maybe a science one) and you have a perfect 10 ship set.

    Now - what reason would there be to NOT do this set? It would make the Klingon players ecstatic, it would give a lot of players a reason to get into playing Klingons and they've already done some new skins for a lot of those ships...I really don't see any downside to giving Klingon players parity on the legendary pack.

    there is also, as much as I dislike it, the Sarcophagus ship. and possible a mirror negh'var dread. there are more then enough ships to make a respectable pack, it's getting cryptic to realizes yes people do actually want one not just saying they do and to not do anything stupid with it thats the hard part. personally the 4 iconic tng era ships are enough for me to count it as a win. hell I'll take just a full pilot b'rel without any fuss.


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    Personally I fully expected a KDF-legendary bundle to be somewhat smaller than the federation one.

    I do expect a legendary B'Rel, the D7/K'T'Inga, the Vor'cha and the Negh'Var at the *very* least.

    What's baffling is the statement of them having no idea of how that bundle would look like, despite everyone having already toyed with that idea for some time now.

  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    Kael is not "they" Kael is Kael.

    To the community, Kael kinda represents them however. That's part of what a CM does.

    The other (unpleasant) part of a CM's role is to be a 'bumper', filtering and carefully disclosing information between community and developers.


    If they actually have plans for those klingon legendaries and don't give Kael a few tidbits to share with us, they're literally killing the last remaining hype for Year of Klingon.

    That's just sad.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Personally I fully expected a KDF-legendary bundle to be somewhat smaller than the federation one.

    I do expect a legendary B'Rel, the D7/K'T'Inga, the Vor'cha and the Negh'Var at the *very* least.

    What's baffling is the statement of them having no idea of how that bundle would look like, despite everyone having already toyed with that idea for some time now.

    yeah, I'm hoping thats mike being a bad lair though the way the rest of the year of klingon has gone I'm not counting on it.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,112 Arc User
    If KDK players DON'T get a KDF faction themed 'Legendary Ship Bundle' during Cryptic's much advertised "Year of the Klingon™" - they never will.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The most likely is we will get a 1ship pack like the romulan one cause we simply do not matter much.
    Or, you know, because there are really only two KDF ships that are really considered iconic enough to be legendary, those being the BoP and the D7. Compared to the Feds who have been the focus of every TV series and movie,and thus, have a lot more iconic ships as a result.

    I know its hard to imagine, but not everything is a conspiracy.

    You do realize we just got a legendary Galaxy X, right? A mirror universe version even. which never existed on screen, with the "prime" version shown for part of one episode (and even that was really an alternate reality.) By that measure, every ship that has ever appeared on screen has rights to a legendary version.

    I am fine with a Legendary Oberth. I am not fine with a Legendary Oberth before a Legendary D7, BOP, Vor'cha and Negh'var.
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I was so sure that there was going to be KDF legendary bundle on par with the federation one from last year. There is certainly enough ships on their side to warrant one. The KDF fanbase is going to explode alright...

    Really no reason to explode. At the very least we're looking at 4 ships (B'rel, K'Tinga (includes D7), Vor'cha, and Negh'var), with the potential for a total of 7 (Kelvin D7, Discovery D7, Bortasqu').
    The one thing in common with all the Legendaries except for the Odyssey has been Canon status. Odyssey was included because it is STO's Enterprise. The Bort would be an equivelent to the Ody.

    Absolute parity with the Fed bundle isn't exactly possible because of the lack of canon designs in game. There is no Ent era ship other than the freighter, TNG era really only had 2 ships... So at best we may have 7 ships. But the very least we have the 4 big canon ones.

    There were actually a couple Enterprise era Klingon ships.

    There was a bird of prey that Duras had, which could be used at any point in time. There was also the IKS Somraw which they decided to recreate and put into the Klingon fleet as the Somraw raptor, Lt. Commander ship. The latter of course doesn't have a TIer 6 version, nor any other version of it.


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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,015 Community Moderator
    There were actually a couple Enterprise era Klingon ships.

    There was a bird of prey that Duras had, which could be used at any point in time. There was also the IKS Somraw which they decided to recreate and put into the Klingon fleet as the Somraw raptor, Lt. Commander ship. The latter of course doesn't have a TIer 6 version, nor any other version of it.

    When I came up with the theoretical options for the KDF Bundle I based it on factors that matched the other Legendaries.

    That's why I had narrowed it down to about 4-7 ships. Now they COULD be making a unique variant of a ship I didn't consider, but until it comes out, most likely at the end of YoK, we won't know.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    nightken wrote: »
    Didn't stop them throwing in an STO ship that never saw a single show or TV show did it?
    The Oddy is the hero ship of STO.

    And right there you've opened it up to other ships being legendary from STO and not just the show. We can now look at a lot more than just the 7-8 ships from the movies/show.
    It would be ridiculously easy to do a 10 ship pack now.

    Bird of Prey
    D-4 (Kelvin) - I forgot this one on the other list
    D-7
    D-7 (Kelvin)
    D-7 (Disco)
    Negh'var
    Raptor (Enterprise era)
    Vor'cha
    Bortas'que

    There's 9 ships all from movies/shows and the Klingon STO "hero" ship. Throw in one more STO ship (maybe a science one) and you have a perfect 10 ship set.

    Now - what reason would there be to NOT do this set? It would make the Klingon players ecstatic, it would give a lot of players a reason to get into playing Klingons and they've already done some new skins for a lot of those ships...I really don't see any downside to giving Klingon players parity on the legendary pack.

    there is also, as much as I dislike it, the Sarcophagus ship. and possible a mirror negh'var dread. there are more then enough ships to make a respectable pack, it's getting cryptic to realizes yes people do actually want one not just saying they do and to not do anything stupid with it thats the hard part. personally the 4 iconic tng era ships are enough for me to count it as a win. hell I'll take just a full pilot b'rel without any fuss.

    You're absolutely right - I don't much like Discovery myself but it would absolutely make sense for the Sarco to be a legendary...so that makes 10.

    There it is a VERY easy 10 ships all with appearances on the shows or movies (outside Kelvin D-7) and the STO hero ship.

    There is NO reason not to do a full size Klingon pack outside of they don't want to because it's Klingon.
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    The most likely is we will get a 1ship pack like the romulan one cause we simply do not matter much.
    Or, you know, because there are really only two KDF ships that are really considered iconic enough to be legendary, those being the BoP and the D7. Compared to the Feds who have been the focus of every TV series and movie,and thus, have a lot more iconic ships as a result.

    I know its hard to imagine, but not everything is a conspiracy.

    While I would never go for the whole conspiracy theory...I did put up a list of 10 ships all from shows except for the Kelvin D-7 (which is a natural to include opposite the other D-7s and the Kelvin Connie) and the STO Klingon hero ship.

    There's an easy list that we put together...all iconic, all prominent - no reason at all not to do the full 10 ship treatment. We just have to wait and see at this point, but you have to admit with such an easy list to put together wouldn't it look really bad NOT to do it?
    There's no reason not to give the Klingon players a 10 ship pack especially when they've already updated a number of the skins/designs.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,857 Arc User
    Didn't stop them throwing in an STO ship that never saw a single show or TV show did it?
    The Oddy is the hero ship of STO.

    And right there you've opened it up to other ships being legendary from STO and not just the show. We can now look at a lot more than just the 7-8 ships from the movies/show.
    It would be ridiculously easy to do a 10 ship pack now.

    Bird of Prey
    D-4 (Kelvin) - I forgot this one on the other list
    D-7
    D-7 (Kelvin)
    D-7 (Disco)
    Negh'var
    Raptor (Enterprise era)
    Vor'cha
    Bortas'que

    There's 9 ships all from movies/shows and the Klingon STO "hero" ship. Throw in one more STO ship (maybe a science one) and you have a perfect 10 ship set.

    Now - what reason would there be to NOT do this set? It would make the Klingon players ecstatic, it would give a lot of players a reason to get into playing Klingons and they've already done some new skins for a lot of those ships...I really don't see any downside to giving Klingon players parity on the legendary pack.

    money. they would never sell enough to make it worth while. regardless of what the few on the forums will have you believe, even if you did a match for match bundle with the Legendary bundle, sales would be less than 25% of the fed side sales. sorry to burst anyone's bubbles on that but it's the truth
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  • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Didn't stop them throwing in an STO ship that never saw a single show or TV show did it?
    The Oddy is the hero ship of STO.

    And right there you've opened it up to other ships being legendary from STO and not just the show. We can now look at a lot more than just the 7-8 ships from the movies/show.
    It would be ridiculously easy to do a 10 ship pack now.

    Bird of Prey
    D-4 (Kelvin) - I forgot this one on the other list
    D-7
    D-7 (Kelvin)
    D-7 (Disco)
    Negh'var
    Raptor (Enterprise era)
    Vor'cha
    Bortas'que

    There's 9 ships all from movies/shows and the Klingon STO "hero" ship. Throw in one more STO ship (maybe a science one) and you have a perfect 10 ship set.

    Now - what reason would there be to NOT do this set? It would make the Klingon players ecstatic, it would give a lot of players a reason to get into playing Klingons and they've already done some new skins for a lot of those ships...I really don't see any downside to giving Klingon players parity on the legendary pack.

    money. they would never sell enough to make it worth while. regardless of what the few on the forums will have you believe, even if you did a match for match bundle with the Legendary bundle, sales would be less than 25% of the fed side sales. sorry to burst anyone's bubbles on that but it's the truth

    That may have been true 11 years ago when Klingons were nothing but glorified pvp "Monster Play". That really turned off a lot of players back then. This myth that sales will always be poor because there is not enough fans for their ships is just a empty excuse especially considering you now have two sub factions that can use all of their ships as well as their own. The problem was always because KDF had no content besides PVP and was thrown under the rug and ignored for years because we got Geko's tired slogan of "fans don't have a interest in playing KDF because they want to be Starfleet only!". It stuck and so we got a bare minimum of ships.

    I also doubt they sold enough fed legendary anniversary bundles either. Otherwise it wouldn't have reappeared so soon (2 times I think) in the store. It's after all a heavy investment to make.​​
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    "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
    "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    I also doubt they sold enough fed legendary anniversary bundles either. Otherwise it wouldn't have reappeared so soon (2 times I think) in the store. It's after all a heavy investment to make.​​

    Au contraire.

    It re-appeared due to being desired by those who previously didn't pick it up. People were scared of not having a chance to get it after its initial run.
  • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    I also doubt they sold enough fed legendary anniversary bundles either. Otherwise it wouldn't have reappeared so soon (2 times I think) in the store. It's after all a heavy investment to make.

    Au contraire.

    It re-appeared due to being desired by those who previously didn't pick it up. People were scared of not having a chance to get it after its initial run.

    Hoc est taurum stercore

    They were scared? Why? Did they think Cryptic would honestly create a dozen new ship models only to shelve them for a indefinite period of time. Bollocks.​​
    Post edited by terranempire#7881 on
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    "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
    "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
    #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
  • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    It stuck and so we got bare minimum of ships.
    That's not really accurate.

    Out of the 339 T6 ships in the game
    • 156 are factional equivalents between FED/KDF/ROM(52 each)
    • Another 6 are DOM factional equivalents for above ships
    • Another 87 are faction neutral ships
    • Another 36 are FED/KDF(18 each) DSC factional equivalent ship pairs
    KDF players who never touch a ROM or DOM specific ship have access to what amounts to 84% of the T6 ships in the game since they are either factional equivalents, or faction neutrals.

    But yeah, no, KDF gets bare minimum.

    Believing that the Feds aren't swimming in ships more than the KDF is outright distortion on your part not mine. I am just glad Cryptic is finally bothering to give them a face lift after nearly a decade of neglect.​​
    tumblr_p30rz12vWH1qdb2vqo6_r1_540.gif
    "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
    "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
    #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Believing that the Feds aren't swimming in ships more than the KDF is outright distortion on your part not mine. I am just glad Cryptic is finally bothering to give them a face lift after nearly a decade of neglect.​​
    The math doesn't lie.

    But yes, It is nice to see the old KDF content getting revamped. It was some of the lowest quality content in the game besides the Breen/Deferi stuff, which I suspect is the next thing they will revamp... its like the last major story arc they haven't revamped.

    Your math is grossly misleading. Feds have approximately twice the T6 ships the KDF does (via the wiki, counting down the fleet ship side of the list which should catch everything relevant, I got ~82 fed ships vs ~45 KDF ships.) There's no point counting the ROM/DOM/any faction ships at all because everyone can use those. Most KDF ships have a direct faction equivalent in the FED list with only ships from the original Delta pack and some box ships that are not direct equivalent.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I got ~82 fed ships vs ~45 KDF ships.)
    Klingons have 70 T6 ships according to the wiki, and Feds have 118. That isn't twice as many.

    A difference of 48 ships, or around 14% of the total T6 ships in the game, which matches with the numbers I originally posted above of Klingons having 84% of the T6 ships via factional equivalents or faction neutrals.(Roms and Dom have a few ships the KDF doesn't have an exact equivalent to)


    You can only get 118/70 by counting the nonfleet T6 ships along with their direct fleet counterparts. There is no reason to do that. For intents and purposes of looking at who has what ship choices, they are the same ship, so you effectively end up counting them twice.

    And again, rom/dom/any faction ships don't need to be counted because they are available to everyone and aren't at issue here. The point was not about how many KDF ships exist as a % of the whole share of T6, but a direct comparison of KDF and FED.
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