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Not a fan of the new Sythn wave TFO

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,891 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    > @seaofsorrows said:
    > Just finished my last run of this TFO. By “last run,” I mean last one.. ever.
    >
    > I’m so glad I never have to run this horrendous queue ever again. I normally do the extra days for the bonus dilithium but not this time.

    Oh congratulations Sea! B)

    Kyle of course missed out 2 days. I think everybody will understand that doing extra runs in such a case is not covered by a 30 years old friendship. :D
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,076 Arc User
    > @seaofsorrows said:
    > Just finished my last run of this TFO. By “last run,” I mean last one.. ever.
    >
    > I’m so glad I never have to run this horrendous queue ever again. I normally do the extra days for the bonus dilithium but not this time.

    Oh congratulations Sea! B)

    Kyle of course missed out 2 days. I think everybody will understand that doing extra runs in such a case is not covered by a 30 years old friendship. :D

    Yeah...the love of my life could ask and I am not doing this think one more time than I need to...which will be tomorrow.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 9,642 Arc User
    My last run was a PUG run and everyone was celebrating at the end because it was the last one for all of us. :lol:
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,334 Arc User
    > @pottsey5g said:
    > (Quote)
    > Along with HSE. Personally I always like the Swarm as well.

    Of course. Both are cool and would be suited for events. :)

    HSE runs often in channels, sadly swarm not so much. If you like we wait for Sea and Kyle to be on the same time we are and set it up for elite then.
    HSE has been aright I managed to get into a few fun runs. But the others like Swarm just dont pop up. Would be great to run Elite Swarm with everyone again if I can get my timings better. My active playtime is all over the place at the moment. Most of the time I am AFK crafting.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,091 Arc User
    Well, finished it this morning before left for work.

    Whilst I may play it again to support a friend who hasn't finished, I'd have to say it isn't my favourite TFO by any stretch of the imagination.

    However, I have to say I don't agree that it's the worst TFO the Devs have ever made; that is, in my personal opinion, the laughable 'No-Win Scenario' (or Kobiashi Maru if you prefer). Again - entirely my opinion, but for me absolutely NOTHING matches that for being pure, undiluted, sewage.


  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 8,481 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    reyan01 wrote: »
    However, I have to say I don't agree that it's the worst TFO the Devs have ever made; that is, in my personal opinion, the laughable 'No-Win Scenario' (or Kobiashi Maru if you prefer). Again - entirely my opinion, but for me absolutely NOTHING matches that for being pure, undiluted, sewage.
    Kobiyashi Maru is annoying, but, IMO, you can at least have fun working with your team to try to keep the KM alive for as long as possible.

    There's not even that in a bunch of older TFOs like Infected Space, Crystalline Entity, the Tholian ground TFOs, Breach, Colony Invasion, Bug Hunt.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,091 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    However, I have to say I don't agree that it's the worst TFO the Devs have ever made; that is, in my personal opinion, the laughable 'No-Win Scenario' (or Kobiashi Maru if you prefer). Again - entirely my opinion, but for me absolutely NOTHING matches that for being pure, undiluted, sewage.
    Kobiyashi Maru is annoying, but, IMO, you can at least have fun working with your team to try to keep the KM alive for as long as possible.

    There's not even that in a bunch of older TFOs like Infected Space, Crystalline Entity, the Tholian ground TFOs, Breach, Colony Invasion, Bug Hunt.

    Well, I didn't list the reasons I hate it - but I have little interest in getting into a discussion about that. All I will say is that I don't share your opinion of it having any sort of fun factor.


  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,091 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    reyan01 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    One more day for me to go and then the reward is in.

    How much do you folks have on the counter?
    Two more days since I was busy one day.

    Same.

    Have to admit am looking forward to the completion reward though - 'on paper' it looks as if it'll be a great set for Science ships.

    It does. Unfortunately, there's already a problem: the warp core, when upgraded to epic, doesn't have 5 mods, but only 3. And cannot be re-engineered - I'm not sure what's the mods status on UR.
    I've seen it likend a few times, and it's apparently missing the standard W->S in favour of A->W. No AMP, either.

    Hopefully the not gaining any more mods thing is a bug that they will fix, though I would not hold my breath waiting.

    That's what I'm hoping, too, because as you said 'on paper' it looks great for SCI builds - would go spectacularly well with the one I'm working on right now, for example.
    I mean, I can get behind it if the decision to not allow it to be re-engineered was actually a decions and not a bug, but 3 mods instead of 5 on an epic... meh.

    One positive is that they are MkXIV Very Rare on opening (on a Lvl65 char).


  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,690 Arc User
    that's not a positive - that's a MAJOR negative, because it means you only get ONE chance to hit a quality upgrade before you have to start dumping massive amounts of resources into it at its most expensive

    the lower the rank, the better, because it's cheaper the lower it is...and cryptic knows it, that's why they've started rewarding stuff at mark 14 now​​
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 8,481 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    that's not a positive - that's a MAJOR negative, because it means you only get ONE chance to hit a quality upgrade before you have to start dumping massive amounts of resources into it at its most expensive

    the lower the rank, the better, because it's cheaper the lower it is...and cryptic knows it, that's why they've started rewarding stuff at mark 14 now​​
    Yes, it almost certainly has nothing to do with the fact that large amonts of people did nothing but complain about past event rewards being lower level MK12s, and asking for future event items to be more level appropriate.

    Na... its all a giant conspiracy to make us pay a little bit more to upgrade them.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    One more day for me to go and then the reward is in.

    How much do you folks have on the counter?
    Two more days since I was busy one day.

    Same.

    Have to admit am looking forward to the completion reward though - 'on paper' it looks as if it'll be a great set for Science ships.

    It does. Unfortunately, there's already a problem: the warp core, when upgraded to epic, doesn't have 5 mods, but only 3. And cannot be re-engineered - I'm not sure what's the mods status on UR.
    I've seen it likend a few times, and it's apparently missing the standard W->S in favour of A->W. No AMP, either.

    Hopefully the not gaining any more mods thing is a bug that they will fix, though I would not hold my breath waiting.

    That's what I'm hoping, too, because as you said 'on paper' it looks great for SCI builds - would go spectacularly well with the one I'm working on right now, for example.
    I mean, I can get behind it if the decision to not allow it to be re-engineered was actually a decions and not a bug, but 3 mods instead of 5 on an epic... meh.

    One positive is that they are MkXIV Very Rare on opening (on a Lvl65 char).

    True enough!
    I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they say anything about it being WAI or not.
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    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,091 Arc User
    that's not a positive - that's a MAJOR negative, because it means you only get ONE chance to hit a quality upgrade before you have to start dumping massive amounts of resources into it at its most expensive

    the lower the rank, the better, because it's cheaper the lower it is...and cryptic knows it, that's why they've started rewarding stuff at mark 14 now​​

    I don't entirely agree.

    Whilst can only talk from personal experience, I pretty much always use Phoenix upgrades (often bolstered by R&D box quality improvement chance enhancers) to upgrade my equipment. VERY rarely have I ever gotten a quality increase between XII and XV


  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    While it is true that that lower ranks - and I mean anything from Mk I to XII - has better chances at getting a quality increase, it's also true that it depends on the quality, too. I've had much success upgrading white Mk I stuff even with "normal" upgrades, because the requirements at that mk/quality are so low, it's way easier to get them to increase.

    That said, let's be real: nothing in this game require Mk XV Epic stuff, not for the majority of the playerbase anyway, so I'm quite content with having FREE stuff (in this case, an entire space set, which is unprecedented and could really benefit newish players or alts) with a quality grade that's enough to run pretty much everything except Elite queues.
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    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,891 Arc User
    I agree with Reyan and Jen.

    The whole quality upgrades and low MKs already loose their appeal around mk6/7 when the first Omega with booster elapses.

    Beyond that it’s Phoenix anyway.
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,701 Arc User
    Worst thing about the maru event currently is that it should NEVER have been extended beyond a weekend event into multiweek territory. STO takes even more of a dump on its ties to trek canon than jarjar abrams did.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,508 Arc User
    My last run was a PUG run and everyone was celebrating at the end because it was the last one for all of us. :lol:

    I can relate to that. The event continues for another 14 days and only 3 characters which have not done the mission yet.
    Maybe I'll do some funny stuff like a stealth bomber run. Some of my characters are running low on dilithium and with either the mission or TFO it would be relatively fast dil.
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,363 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    My last run was a PUG run and everyone was celebrating at the end because it was the last one for all of us. :lol:

    I can relate to that. The event continues for another 14 days and only 3 characters which have not done the mission yet.
    Maybe I'll do some funny stuff like a stealth bomber run. Some of my characters are running low on dilithium and with either the mission or TFO it would be relatively fast dil.

    I still have three and four days left (two accounts and they always seem to desync by a day or so), though I do the mission more than the TFO this time since the difference in run length is so close and the sniper disrupter with the plasma bayonet you get from the mission is rather useful.
  • fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 838 Arc User
    i did the TFO once after they finally fixed it so it works. BUT I still cant stand that TFO, I went back to the mission and thats what I do daily to complete the event progress.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,334 Arc User
    Some of the most fun I ever had in STO was the original Kobiyashi Maru as that had some great team work moments. The revamped one is just terrible in comparison as it removes tactics, and strategy. I used to love spending a while working on a pre made team each with our own role and pre set equipment. Often I would run full support, zero DPS. Then we would dive in to see how far we could get. That just doesn't work with the new version.

    One of the big things that ruin that event is the way the ship is meant to be disabled but can outmaneuver my own ship running 125 engine power along with EptE. It will suicide before I even get chance to respond and do half a turn. It’s so suicidal it seems impossible to keep alive. I wouldn’t mind so much but it meant to be suffering from major damage and a power outage.

    Has anyone found a way to protect is properly like we could with the old Kobiyashi Maru? Not just the hull regen console for short bursts, but to protect it over time?
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,076 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Some of the most fun I ever had in STO was the original Kobiyashi Maru as that had some great team work moments. The revamped one is just terrible in comparison as it removes tactics, and strategy. I used to love spending a while working on a pre made team each with our own role and pre set equipment. Often I would run full support, zero DPS. Then we would dive in to see how far we could get. That just doesn't work with the new version.

    One of the big things that ruin that event is the way the ship is meant to be disabled but can outmaneuver my own ship running 125 engine power along with EptE. It will suicide before I even get chance to respond and do half a turn. It’s so suicidal it seems impossible to keep alive. I wouldn’t mind so much but it meant to be suffering from major damage and a power outage.

    Has anyone found a way to protect is properly like we could with the old Kobiyashi Maru? Not just the hull regen console for short bursts, but to protect it over time?

    Sorta kinda...have a FAW zipcort with lots of threat gen follow it around and a support ships keeps the escort alive. It takes some damage...but that will keep a lot of damage off it. Enough for the regen console to be fine for long term. The fact you need a zipcort to keep up with a disabled ship however is all sorts of stupid. Even a damaged ship. They just need to make that sucker stay STILL.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,076 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    They just need to make that sucker stay STILL.
    Cryptic has somewhat joked about making the ship disabled, but then having an enemy ship come over and start dragging it around.

    That would actually be kinda great.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,091 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Some of the most fun I ever had in STO was the original Kobiyashi Maru as that had some great team work moments. The revamped one is just terrible in comparison as it removes tactics, and strategy. I used to love spending a while working on a pre made team each with our own role and pre set equipment. Often I would run full support, zero DPS. Then we would dive in to see how far we could get. That just doesn't work with the new version.

    One of the big things that ruin that event is the way the ship is meant to be disabled but can outmaneuver my own ship running 125 engine power along with EptE. It will suicide before I even get chance to respond and do half a turn. It’s so suicidal it seems impossible to keep alive. I wouldn’t mind so much but it meant to be suffering from major damage and a power outage.


    Has anyone found a way to protect is properly like we could with the old Kobiyashi Maru? Not just the hull regen console for short bursts, but to protect it over time?

    Exactly! It isn't as if dumping a megawell on the enemy ships helps either, since the Leeroy Jenkins is so aggressively suicidal that it just makes a VERY fast beeline for the gravity well!

    I don't particuarly like the current event TFO but, for me, it hasn't knocked NWS off my personal 'most hated' top-spot. I outright refuse to play it.


  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,334 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    They just need to make that sucker stay STILL.
    Cryptic has somewhat joked about making the ship disabled, but then having an enemy ship come over and start dragging it around.

    That would actually be kinda great.
    That sounds like it could be a bit of fun as long as it happens at reasonable speeds. An enemy comes in locks a tractor beam on and try’s to move it into a more dangerous place or a place where they can escape with it ending the TFO as a fail. We could even respond and disrupt the tractor beam and tractor it back away from the escape zone.

    Just as long as its not impossible to respond unless you are in a zipcort. I favor big slow Dreadnoughts and full carriers.
  • mikewallace#2209 mikewallace Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    So I imagined not many will stay to do this TFO for the EXTRA dilithium :D
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 8,481 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Just as long as its not impossible to respond unless you are in a zipcort.
    Yeah, this is the problem with the current Kobayashi Maru.

    Like, I get why they did it. The old Kobayashi Maru TFO had become way too easy, due to the level cap increase allowing players to get more powerful then it was ever designed for. And the fact that it just sat in one spot meant it was easy to just in one spot yourself, and DPS BURN BABY BURN! the enemies before they ever got close enough to even target it.

    So, when making the new KM, they gave it enemies that could scale up to the current level cap, and also made the KM itself move around so you couldn't just turret protect it. But they made the Maru move around too fast, and most people can't really keep up with it. They need to decrease the speed of the Maru by like 50%, that would make it a lot better and more reasonable to defend.

    The KM also suffers from a problem most TFOs do in that allied NPCs have stupidly low HP and resistances on normal mode(and KM is a normal mode only TFO), and going to advanced can actually make it easier due to the increase in HP and resistances allies get on advanced. The Maru could stand being a little bit less squishy.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,334 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Just as long as its not impossible to respond unless you are in a zipcort.
    Yeah, this is the problem with the current Kobayashi Maru.

    Like, I get why they did it. The old Kobayashi Maru TFO had become way too easy, due to the level cap increase allowing players to get more powerful then it was ever designed for. And the fact that it just sat in one spot meant it was easy to just in one spot yourself, and DPS BURN BABY BURN! the enemies before they ever got close enough to even target it.

    So, when making the new KM, they gave it enemies that could scale up to the current level cap, and also made the KM itself move around so you couldn't just turret protect it. But they made the Maru move around too fast, and most people can't really keep up with it. They need to decrease the speed of the Maru by like 50%, that would make it a lot better and more reasonable to defend.

    The KM also suffers from a problem most TFOs do in that allied NPCs have stupidly low HP and resistances on normal mode(and KM is a normal mode only TFO), and going to advanced can actually make it easier due to the increase in HP and resistances allies get on advanced. The Maru could stand being a little bit less squishy.
    That could be all they need to do. If only they would put a few different versions on tribble to test different Maru speeds with. I used to sit in one spot in the old one but not as a DPSers, as pure support. In the new version I feel like doing 100% team support is next to impossible. I just cannot turn my ship fast enough let alone speed up and stop as I refuse to play Escorts as they are not my style. I agree with the other problems you listed it suffers from.

    The other problem its its AI. I believed they toned this down a bit last time around? The Maru will see a massive wave of enemy incoming, ignore its allies trying to cover and protect it and charge at them full speed solo. It makes no logical to me for a damaged ship trying to repair itself to do that. Its clearly a suicide move.

    I do like the concept and the idea of the Maru TFO though. Just needs a few little tweaks.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,669 Arc User
    Kobiyashi Maru is annoying, but, IMO, you can at least have fun working with your team to try to keep the KM alive for as long as possible.

    There's not even that in a bunch of older TFOs like Infected Space, Crystalline Entity, the Tholian ground TFOs, Breach, Colony Invasion, Bug Hunt.
    Thanks for listing some of my favorite older TFO's :smile:
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  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    protoneous wrote: »
    Thanks for listing some of my favorite older TFO's
    I'm sure a lot of people like the TFOs that are so effortless that you could make a bot to run them solo and get the maximum reward.

    Better those than whatever they've produced in the last two years alon - auto complete, timegated drivel that gives maximum reward even if you do absolutely nothing - because you need to do STUFF in the listed queues for them to advance.
    But you like doing nothing, sitting around twiddling your thumbs and calling that "team work", so...
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    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
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