For me, my biggest complaint is the music. It needs to go! Sure, I can turn the music off but it turns off the music for the whole game. I like some of the in-game music but this TFO I would prefer had none over the nails on a chalkboard stuff it currently has.
I think the way to improve it would be the length. As it currently is, maybe that could be more of the Elite side just with much harder enemies. Make an Advanced version that takes away one of the rescue phases to bring it down to two instead of three. Shorten the last onslaught of enemies as well with less damage than Elite. For Normal, I would like to see only a single phase of rescues. Keep the enemies the way they are now and significantly reduce the wave after wave of spam at the end. That way, I think most people would find a variant they would enjoy. 20 days is definitely way too long for this grind!
Agreed, the music for this TFO sounds like an 8-bit MIDI file from a late 1980s era DOS game when sound cards first came out for PCs; compared to the majority of other BGM in the game (some of which I quite like).
Did you guys hear something different? Because that was an orchestra.
Yes, in a midi form, but it is The Planets.. the midi is hideous... and that is what is playing in the TFO... wish they would put the one in the video.. it would be epic.. but no... i hate midi!!!
It is the synth version, but not 8-bit midi like some people are saying, more like a decent quality midi keyboard.
What makes the music weird in the scenario for me is that Blake's 7 used a synth version of the music identical to it as background music in a lot of space scenes so I feel like I should be flying the Liberator and calling for the protective barrier to be raised and fire the particle bursts.
Check out the music in 'Forbidden Planet', one of my favorite SciFi movies.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
but none of the team behind tried it to see if its fun?
The problem with that statement is that not everyone will agree on what is fun and what isn't. You can't have something everyone will agree to. There will always be someone who disagrees.
Check out the music in 'Forbidden Planet', one of my favorite SciFi movies.
A yes, the true 'original Star Trek film' (not kidding)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Wow. They really removed solo runs with the patch. What they feel for their players can only be described as hostile anymore I guess. "We made that! You eat what's on the table! No shortcuts even if you hate it with every fibre of your being!". I really thought they enabled this on purpose to mitigate the backlash on this monstrosity. Guess I was wrong.
You're so out of touch with what is actually happening in game that everything you write here is a joke.
People are AFKing this event, just as it happened with pretty much every other one that came before... they just aren't doing so in a public queue.
You're right about one thing, tho you clearly do not understand it yourself: people play games to play them, not to not play them.
Waiting on a timer to run out is NOT playing a game. Is watching the clock tick away.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I'm disappointed they took away the option to for a private match to solo it.
Agreed. And even more so because they didn't say they were gonna do it.
As usual, communication is luckluster, to say the least.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
> @jennycolvin said: > (Quote) > Agreed. And even more so because they didn't say they were gonna do it. > As usual, communication is luckluster, to say the least.
It was probably a mistake and embarrassment from start but it is fun to see that cryptic can easily integrate solo PvE in game of they wanted to. Would solve a lot a lot of problems for those who would like to play.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I'm pretty sure "Do whatever you want, even absolutely nothing, while waiting out the clock." isn't "pretty standard". Also, just because something is "pretty standard", doesn't mean it's good, or should be replicated by others. If you make something, you should make it good, regardless if that's standard practice or not.
.....But then again, these sorts of comments end up coming from the same handful of people on the forums. In-game, I've yet to run into anyone trying to AFK Synth Wave, even back when it was known to be bugged. The same is true of past events, like Pahvo Dissension, which people tried to claim "everyone" was AFKing. Even back during the old Mirror Invasion event, I rarely ran into anyone AFKing it. And I've seen many people say they enjoy it, including the Priority One podcast/fleet members on the recent P1 podcast.
So I can only come to the conclusion that the same handful of people who don't want to play the game, still don't want to play the game, and are blaming the game for not making them play it, even when games shouldn't need to force you to play it in the first place.
How can you be sure you have not ran into people AFKing it? It can be very hard to tell if someone is AFKing Synth Wave as being AFK is pretty much identical to how many people play it. I don't think any PUGS I have played with have been able to tell the difference between when I was active in front of the screen or AFK. Since they removed the Solo option I have switched from actively playing to AFK. Gameplay is effectively the same. It is possible to tell but but you have to go out your way to spot if someone is playing or AFK in Synth Wave. (EDIT: I guess it depends how the person is AFK. Someone sitting cloaking doing nothing is easy to spot. Someone blowing everything up while AFK looks the same as an active player. Which is what I do as it helps the team the same as if I was active)
As much as I like Synth Wave its one of the many design flaws in the missions. Personally its a TFO I am a fan off, but it does need a few tweaks and for me an advance/Elite version. Plus the recent change by the devs is nothing but a negative change that hurts players for zero good reason.
As if often the case with you. The conclusion you have came to is very wrong. The problem is not the players, the problem is the devs are out of touch with the players and the devs keep making negative QoL changes.
> @jennycolvin said:
> (Quote)
> Agreed. And even more so because they didn't say they were gonna do it.
> As usual, communication is luckluster, to say the least.
It was probably a mistake and embarrassment from start but it is fun to see that cryptic can easily integrate solo PvE in game of they wanted to. Would solve a lot a lot of problems for those who would like to play.
I was under no illusion that it was anything but unintentional, Pete XD
As for the solo queueing, you're right: it would be nice for a lot of people, but a) they should know how to do it intentionally, which I doubt and b) it would be helpful for people, so of course they will never do it.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I spend most of the scenario under cloak not firing a shot (at least in the ships that have one) but I am still playing the scenario, racing against the clock to beam up crews and send them to the fighting ships. It is only in the last phase that I decloak and fight, and as far as I can see that is exactly how it was designed to be played.
I like the fact that it makes cloaks useful for more than just the opening shot of the scenario which most other TFOs don't (though To Hell With Honor made cloaks quite useful too to avoid all the idiotic turrets), but it is still a rather awkward scenario even without the bugs.
The biggest thing that causes people to do afk is probably the repetition, if there was more variety, like if Cryptic made more TFOs (perhaps older ones that still have some bearing on the event) available for the event along with the new one(s) and only required the new one to be done every few days or whatever instead of the older ones on the list, there would probably be less fatigue and therefore less AFK exploiters. I don't know if the effort to support such a scheme would be worth reducing the AFK minority shenanigans though.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
“Even if you are just flying around and shooting things to death you aren't actually AFKing, since your assisting in keeping the transports alive to get a higher score(much like how people who distract the enemies from the portals in Procyon V so other people can close them are)”
So if I walk out the room and come back after the events finished I am not really AFK because I was flying around shooting things?
“And the change neither hurts no one, nor is it without reason. You still have to complete the event, the event still takes the same amount of time, and the whole point of events is to get people to play the new content together. Letting people play by themselves defeats the whole purpose of event content in the first place. This is true of events in any game.”
The event isn’t designed in a way that is works very well or is fun in a group. The only way I can play it in a fun way is to play it solo and a lot of people did the same as me going by the large amount of talk in game about people soloing it. Letting people play by themselves, solves a lot of the problems with the event and makes it more fun.
If the idea of the event is to make people play together then it’s a massive fail and badly designed. I still don’t understand why the devs insisted on implanting events in such a poor way. There are so many easy ways to improve the way events are ran and make them better. Like let players choose between running the event at normal, advance and elite and let them solo it where suitable like this event. Why are you so against positive QoL features like this?
“The problem is with players who think that anything other then gameplay design where all you have to do is sit there and fire, and its over in 2 minutes, is bad, or too long. When, in reality, that sort of gameplay is bad, and shouldn't be tolerated, or perpetuated, in any game. As typical, pretty much everything you say is a negative QoL change is actually a positive one by any real metric.”
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. The problem is not with players thinking it should be 2 minutes shooting and then over. That’s just something you made up instead of looking at the real problems.
You said the same handful of people who don't want to play the game, still don't want to play the game, and are blaming the game for not making them play it. But that is wrong as we do want to play the game and we are correctly blaming the game. But your bias means you refuse to blame the devs for there mistakes and so as per normal you defend the devs mistakes by blaming the players. Well its not the players fault just like your comments about QoL and you reasons on why players don’t like it are wrong.
I fully want more then just sit there and fire. But that is all this TFO is. There are only two things to do. Blow everything up. Or sit there mind-numbingly bored taping the F key which is just a terrible outdated design. The only way I managed to get any fun out of this event was to run it solo and play around with the mechanics of the game. Which I really enjoyed until as is common the devs made another negative QoL change 4 days before my last run. As much as you don't want to admit it. The devs just removed yet another positive feature and just caused more people to switch to going AFK. That is the devs fault not the players fault.
“Players should never be allowed to "speed up" content(not being able to speed up content being one the biggest reason I see as to why people AFK)”
Players being unable to impact the speed of any TFO is terrible outdated design. Some content should allow players to impact the speed to a set amount as that gives the players a sense of accomplishment and means what the players do matters. When speed is the same if someone is active or AFK then the TFO loses a sense of accomplishment and the players actions lose meaning. When a player can reduce a TFO down by a reasonable amount of time by taking part in the TFO it increases the players sense of accomplishment and meaning. Its all about balance.
Making what the players do meaningless and always the same removes a reason to play. Players actions should matter and your design approach is to remove players actions as mattering in a meaningful way. I don't count some minor changes in secondary marks meaningful. To be clear I am not anti-time gate. But there is a good way and a bad way to do time gates and the devs have been very hit and miss on getting this right. The mirror and revamped CE are examples of where the devs got it very wrong. Pahvo Dissension is one of the time gates the devs got right.
“OFC, there is always a vocal group of people(usually the DPS community) who complain about this sort of thing. Mostly due to the fact they have spent so much time and effort pushing their DPS to the max(for no reason since the game never required them to do it) that they end up feeling wronged when their epic DPS doesn't help them do things better then a newb. But devs tend to ignore those kind of people because, despite how vocal they are, they are never the majority of players.”
Why do you always have to bring up the DPS community. We all know how bias you are against them. I never understood your problem with them. As far as I can see this has nothing to do with DPS or the DPS community. It has got nothing to do with DPS not impacting the length of the mission and it has nothing to do with players not wanting to play the game like your keep saying. Sometime its feels like you just want to blame the DPS community whenever the devs make a poor design choice.
.
If the idea of the event is to make people play together then it’s a massive fail and badly designed. I still don’t understand why the devs insisted on implanting events in such a poor way. There are so many easy ways to improve the way events are ran and make them better. Like let players choose between running the event at normal, advance and elite and let them solo it where suitable like this event. Why are you so against positive QoL features like this?
Not to mention, a total lie because if that was the goal of the event - or any other events that allowed for multiple ways of accruing progress - then there wouldn't be the option of playing the episode, which 99.9% of the people do alone.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
If the idea of the event is to make people play together then it’s a massive fail and badly designed. I still don’t understand why the devs insisted on implanting events in such a poor way. There are so many easy ways to improve the way events are ran and make them better. Like let players choose between running the event at normal, advance and elite and let them solo it where suitable like this event. Why are you so against positive QoL features like this?
Not to mention, a total lie because if that was the goal of the event - or any other events that allowed for multiple ways of accruing progress - then there wouldn't be the option of playing the episode, which 99.9% of the people do alone.
I think the point is that TFOs in general are supposed to be group content originally designed to encourage people to play together instead of all off doing their own thing, while episodes were never meant for that. It might be good to have a few events with a deep space encounter format where they could have up to ten or so people in it without actual queuing a five person team just to break up the pattern these things have fallen into.
Timegates are not necessarily bad, but the sudden fade out thing and the "halt simulation" thing get monotonous after a while. If they are done realistically and the enemy warps in and out it would help a lot with very little effort for instance. Also the time gates should be realistic and intrinsic to the situation (such as protecting something or using some process that takes time), not something obviously bolted on as all too many of them are now. For example the timers could keep sending in enemy reinforcements but when it ends just stop sending in new ones and the stage goes on until all of enemy that are already there are destroyed or fled instead of just fading out.
music still sucks.
as for the rest...meh. not the best they have done, but then i have been in lockdown after getting covid and just logged in yesterday in over 12 or so days.
so, for me, the music still sucks. (maybe not the choice of music, but the version they pciked.)
Using the synth version of the song instead of a recorded orchestra performance is all part of the pun the name of the TFO is based on so it makes sense that they used that version of the music.
“And OFC you don't have a problem with them, you literally just spent your entire post saying”
You are letting you bias give you a completely wrong reading of the situation. I love playing with a team when team work matters and teamwork impacts the mission in a meaningful way. The devs not facilitating team work in a Star Trek game when ST is all about working as a team is not only bad QoL but bad design choices by the devs.
If you think my post(s) are saying “content should be designed around sitting there and shooting things because me being able to do that quickly is the only way I can get a sense of accomplishment out of a game” then your bias is more extreme than I thought. I literally said the opposite to what you are reading. Which makes your entire count point fall apart because it doesn’t apply to me or what I am saying.
“Which is literally THE stock standard DPS talking point, used in every MMO. Your responses are so textbook its actually kind of amazing.”
Everything I have seen about your builds and play style has you closer to DPSer then me. You seem to be obsessed over DPSers for some reason I don’t understand. As I said before, I don’t understand what DPSers has to do with this TFO or the problems with the TFO. The things you are talking about don’t seem to have any relation to me or what people like and do not like about this TFO. You come across to me as just looking for ways to blame the DPS community when this has obsoletely nothing to do with them.
“Because these same people exist in every MMO, make the same arguments in every MMO, and get ignored by the devs in every MMO for the same reason, yet can't seem to fathom why that is, even when its explained to them, and they end up constantly stirring up trouble on the forums with persistent nagging over things they will never get changed.”
You have lost me. What has this got to do with anything? I don’t see any relation to that and this thread. Did I miss some post or something?
“The fact that the only sense of accomplishment you see in games is how fast you can speed through it just ends up proving my point that the only thing you care about is DPS. Since, again, that is the only thing you are arguing here. People who want a sense of accomplishment, especially from something other then sheer DPS, find accomplishment in things like seeing how many transports they can save.”
When did I ever say anything about speeding though it or my accomplishment is linked to speed? Again this is your bias reading the situation wrongly. No DPSers who wants to run as fast as possible would be using the builds I clearly talk about in this thread. I literally talk about using the weakest builds in game with the lowest DPS output in this very thread and you take away the opposite that I want high DPS and speed runs as fast as possible. That makes no sense. The builds I talk about are completely incompatible with this fake picture you are trying to paint of me.
“Positive QoL features in online games do things that bring the playerbase together. Letting people solo events, or play them on various levels, just divides the playerbase up. Its the exact definition of a negative QoL feature. It would be like splitting up ground and space TFOs from the RTFO system. Your in an MMO, not a single player game, you shouldn't be able to play content like TFOs by yourself. That defeats the point of it being an online game.”
This is where you go wrong and always get it wrong. By letting players play at various levels you are not dividing the player base. What is dividing the player base is by forcing everyone into the same limited situation which is causing people like myself to play less and team up with other people less. By creating those various levels you are opening up the player base allowing an increase of people taking part and an increase in team work. There are lots of people doing the solo mission and skipping the normal TFO who would swap to working as a team if there was an advance or elite version. The devs by forcing us into this single level have taken a group of the playerbase and split the player base and separated us even more. Many people have tryed to explain this to you before.
“. Why do you find it more fun to not be able to do as much as possible as with a team?”
The problem is our actions are meaningless on this mission. There is zero meaningful impact on our actions on anything inside the mission. Other players can ignore me, I can ignore them or we can work together or we can all go AFK. We can play really well or we can play really badly none of it matters. No matter what we do our actions don’t matter in any meaningful way. The mission play the same each time which is just bad outdated design.
The difference between us, is you seem to be more focused on playtime V reward, you are focused on the marks at the end and getting rewards for your time played. For players like myself we don’t care about playtime v reward. We don’t care about marks those are meaningless. What matters is the sense of accomplishment for doing the TFO and completing it.
I believe this is the same reason you hate fail conditions as it reduces the playtime V reward that you are so focused on. Why other players love fails conditions, for us it’s not about playtime V reward
“If they didn't matter then you would get the exact same reward regardless of if you saved the transports or not, and you don't. And the same number of transports would be saved regardless of player action, which doesn't happen. You try to deflect by saying that the marks are secondary rewards, when marks are the PRIMARY reward, and event completion is the secondary reward.”
This is what I am talking about. You are so focused on rewards v playtime you don’t understand what I mean by “sense of accomplishment” or “player's actions don't matter”. The group of players I am talking about do not play for secondary rewards often not even for primary rewards. We are not motivated by the rewards at the end of the mission.
Perhaps I am not explain myself clearly. Let’s try this
If I had a choice of this TFO on normal under its current condition 20min long fixed time.
Or
This TFO on Elite, with a fail condition. Way worse reward V playtime. The players actions impact the mission directly. If we play really well our actions get it down to 25min but if I play really bad it takes 30min. This is the option that would give me the more rewarding feeling for playing, this is the option that would give me the most sense of accomplishment.
Its not about speed runs, its not about DPS. Its about what we do mattering in the mission. Its about working as a team to get over the challengers and completing those challengers. That is what matters.
“And Pahvo Dissension is literally the same thing as Synth Wave. “
Not remotely. The players actions matter in Pahvo Dissension. There is a difference if we play badly, a difference if we play well. My actions in Pahvo Dissension directly impact playing the mission. My actions in Synth Wave have zero direct impact on the mission. Pahvo Dissension on Elite feels like my actions matter; Synth Wave feels like my actions are meaningless. Pahvo Dissension rewards us for team work. Synth Wave zero reward for team work (remember like a lot of players I don’t play for marks v time)
“You contradict yourself here. First you say you want more then sit there and fire, but then turn around and say the TFO is just sit there and fire, when literally the whole point of the TFO is to not sit there and fire, “
That is not a contradiction. Just because I want more then sit there and fire. It doesn’t mean I want to mind numbingly sit there and tap F key only for the mission to play the same as if I was shooting only. I did not outright lie you just misread what I wrote again. “Your inability to see anything to do but sit there and fire rests solely on your desire to not want to do anything but sit there and fire.” Again you are reading my posts wrong. Which invalidates your entire next section.
“This is entirely your fault, and your fault alone, because you don't want to do anything other then that, even when presented with the option to do so. Accept some personal responsibility instead of shifting it off onto other people.”
How about you try to stop blaming the DPS Community who have nothing to do with this and stop blaming players when its not the players fault.
Comments
It is the synth version, but not 8-bit midi like some people are saying, more like a decent quality midi keyboard.
What makes the music weird in the scenario for me is that Blake's 7 used a synth version of the music identical to it as background music in a lot of space scenes so I feel like I should be flying the Liberator and calling for the protective barrier to be raised and fire the particle bursts.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The problem with that statement is that not everyone will agree on what is fun and what isn't. You can't have something everyone will agree to. There will always be someone who disagrees.
A yes, the true 'original Star Trek film' (not kidding)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
People are AFKing this event, just as it happened with pretty much every other one that came before... they just aren't doing so in a public queue.
You're right about one thing, tho you clearly do not understand it yourself: people play games to play them, not to not play them.
Waiting on a timer to run out is NOT playing a game. Is watching the clock tick away.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
As usual, communication is luckluster, to say the least.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
> So...no more solo runs it looks like
Yea that’s too bad.
During private matches the map concluded hard AFK with 100% certainty.
I guess I soft AFK the final 4 runs in public on my Recluse or Styx with my pets set to attack.
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> (Quote)
> Agreed. And even more so because they didn't say they were gonna do it.
> As usual, communication is luckluster, to say the least.
It was probably a mistake and embarrassment from start but it is fun to see that cryptic can easily integrate solo PvE in game of they wanted to. Would solve a lot a lot of problems for those who would like to play.
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As much as I like Synth Wave its one of the many design flaws in the missions. Personally its a TFO I am a fan off, but it does need a few tweaks and for me an advance/Elite version. Plus the recent change by the devs is nothing but a negative change that hurts players for zero good reason.
As if often the case with you. The conclusion you have came to is very wrong. The problem is not the players, the problem is the devs are out of touch with the players and the devs keep making negative QoL changes.
I was under no illusion that it was anything but unintentional, Pete XD
As for the solo queueing, you're right: it would be nice for a lot of people, but a) they should know how to do it intentionally, which I doubt and b) it would be helpful for people, so of course they will never do it.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Yes, it was the only way to do all my family accounts at the same time... 4, mind you...
I like the fact that it makes cloaks useful for more than just the opening shot of the scenario which most other TFOs don't (though To Hell With Honor made cloaks quite useful too to avoid all the idiotic turrets), but it is still a rather awkward scenario even without the bugs.
The biggest thing that causes people to do afk is probably the repetition, if there was more variety, like if Cryptic made more TFOs (perhaps older ones that still have some bearing on the event) available for the event along with the new one(s) and only required the new one to be done every few days or whatever instead of the older ones on the list, there would probably be less fatigue and therefore less AFK exploiters. I don't know if the effort to support such a scheme would be worth reducing the AFK minority shenanigans though.
I hope future TFOs development will get more "love" from the devs. This is one is embarassing.....
PS.: It seems I'm not the only afk player in my team ........
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
The event isn’t designed in a way that is works very well or is fun in a group. The only way I can play it in a fun way is to play it solo and a lot of people did the same as me going by the large amount of talk in game about people soloing it. Letting people play by themselves, solves a lot of the problems with the event and makes it more fun.
If the idea of the event is to make people play together then it’s a massive fail and badly designed. I still don’t understand why the devs insisted on implanting events in such a poor way. There are so many easy ways to improve the way events are ran and make them better. Like let players choose between running the event at normal, advance and elite and let them solo it where suitable like this event. Why are you so against positive QoL features like this?
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. The problem is not with players thinking it should be 2 minutes shooting and then over. That’s just something you made up instead of looking at the real problems.
You said the same handful of people who don't want to play the game, still don't want to play the game, and are blaming the game for not making them play it. But that is wrong as we do want to play the game and we are correctly blaming the game. But your bias means you refuse to blame the devs for there mistakes and so as per normal you defend the devs mistakes by blaming the players. Well its not the players fault just like your comments about QoL and you reasons on why players don’t like it are wrong.
I fully want more then just sit there and fire. But that is all this TFO is. There are only two things to do. Blow everything up. Or sit there mind-numbingly bored taping the F key which is just a terrible outdated design. The only way I managed to get any fun out of this event was to run it solo and play around with the mechanics of the game. Which I really enjoyed until as is common the devs made another negative QoL change 4 days before my last run. As much as you don't want to admit it. The devs just removed yet another positive feature and just caused more people to switch to going AFK. That is the devs fault not the players fault.
Players being unable to impact the speed of any TFO is terrible outdated design. Some content should allow players to impact the speed to a set amount as that gives the players a sense of accomplishment and means what the players do matters. When speed is the same if someone is active or AFK then the TFO loses a sense of accomplishment and the players actions lose meaning. When a player can reduce a TFO down by a reasonable amount of time by taking part in the TFO it increases the players sense of accomplishment and meaning. Its all about balance.
Making what the players do meaningless and always the same removes a reason to play. Players actions should matter and your design approach is to remove players actions as mattering in a meaningful way. I don't count some minor changes in secondary marks meaningful. To be clear I am not anti-time gate. But there is a good way and a bad way to do time gates and the devs have been very hit and miss on getting this right. The mirror and revamped CE are examples of where the devs got it very wrong. Pahvo Dissension is one of the time gates the devs got right.
Why do you always have to bring up the DPS community. We all know how bias you are against them. I never understood your problem with them. As far as I can see this has nothing to do with DPS or the DPS community. It has got nothing to do with DPS not impacting the length of the mission and it has nothing to do with players not wanting to play the game like your keep saying. Sometime its feels like you just want to blame the DPS community whenever the devs make a poor design choice.
.
Not to mention, a total lie because if that was the goal of the event - or any other events that allowed for multiple ways of accruing progress - then there wouldn't be the option of playing the episode, which 99.9% of the people do alone.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I think the point is that TFOs in general are supposed to be group content originally designed to encourage people to play together instead of all off doing their own thing, while episodes were never meant for that. It might be good to have a few events with a deep space encounter format where they could have up to ten or so people in it without actual queuing a five person team just to break up the pattern these things have fallen into.
Timegates are not necessarily bad, but the sudden fade out thing and the "halt simulation" thing get monotonous after a while. If they are done realistically and the enemy warps in and out it would help a lot with very little effort for instance. Also the time gates should be realistic and intrinsic to the situation (such as protecting something or using some process that takes time), not something obviously bolted on as all too many of them are now. For example the timers could keep sending in enemy reinforcements but when it ends just stop sending in new ones and the stage goes on until all of enemy that are already there are destroyed or fled instead of just fading out.
Using the synth version of the song instead of a recorded orchestra performance is all part of the pun the name of the TFO is based on so it makes sense that they used that version of the music.
If you think my post(s) are saying “content should be designed around sitting there and shooting things because me being able to do that quickly is the only way I can get a sense of accomplishment out of a game” then your bias is more extreme than I thought. I literally said the opposite to what you are reading. Which makes your entire count point fall apart because it doesn’t apply to me or what I am saying.
Everything I have seen about your builds and play style has you closer to DPSer then me. You seem to be obsessed over DPSers for some reason I don’t understand. As I said before, I don’t understand what DPSers has to do with this TFO or the problems with the TFO. The things you are talking about don’t seem to have any relation to me or what people like and do not like about this TFO. You come across to me as just looking for ways to blame the DPS community when this has obsoletely nothing to do with them.
You have lost me. What has this got to do with anything? I don’t see any relation to that and this thread. Did I miss some post or something?
When did I ever say anything about speeding though it or my accomplishment is linked to speed? Again this is your bias reading the situation wrongly. No DPSers who wants to run as fast as possible would be using the builds I clearly talk about in this thread. I literally talk about using the weakest builds in game with the lowest DPS output in this very thread and you take away the opposite that I want high DPS and speed runs as fast as possible. That makes no sense. The builds I talk about are completely incompatible with this fake picture you are trying to paint of me.
This is where you go wrong and always get it wrong. By letting players play at various levels you are not dividing the player base. What is dividing the player base is by forcing everyone into the same limited situation which is causing people like myself to play less and team up with other people less. By creating those various levels you are opening up the player base allowing an increase of people taking part and an increase in team work. There are lots of people doing the solo mission and skipping the normal TFO who would swap to working as a team if there was an advance or elite version. The devs by forcing us into this single level have taken a group of the playerbase and split the player base and separated us even more. Many people have tryed to explain this to you before.
The problem is our actions are meaningless on this mission. There is zero meaningful impact on our actions on anything inside the mission. Other players can ignore me, I can ignore them or we can work together or we can all go AFK. We can play really well or we can play really badly none of it matters. No matter what we do our actions don’t matter in any meaningful way. The mission play the same each time which is just bad outdated design.
The difference between us, is you seem to be more focused on playtime V reward, you are focused on the marks at the end and getting rewards for your time played. For players like myself we don’t care about playtime v reward. We don’t care about marks those are meaningless. What matters is the sense of accomplishment for doing the TFO and completing it.
I believe this is the same reason you hate fail conditions as it reduces the playtime V reward that you are so focused on. Why other players love fails conditions, for us it’s not about playtime V reward
“If they didn't matter then you would get the exact same reward regardless of if you saved the transports or not, and you don't. And the same number of transports would be saved regardless of player action, which doesn't happen. You try to deflect by saying that the marks are secondary rewards, when marks are the PRIMARY reward, and event completion is the secondary reward.”
This is what I am talking about. You are so focused on rewards v playtime you don’t understand what I mean by “sense of accomplishment” or “player's actions don't matter”. The group of players I am talking about do not play for secondary rewards often not even for primary rewards. We are not motivated by the rewards at the end of the mission.
Perhaps I am not explain myself clearly. Let’s try this
If I had a choice of this TFO on normal under its current condition 20min long fixed time.
Or
This TFO on Elite, with a fail condition. Way worse reward V playtime. The players actions impact the mission directly. If we play really well our actions get it down to 25min but if I play really bad it takes 30min. This is the option that would give me the more rewarding feeling for playing, this is the option that would give me the most sense of accomplishment.
Its not about speed runs, its not about DPS. Its about what we do mattering in the mission. Its about working as a team to get over the challengers and completing those challengers. That is what matters.
Not remotely. The players actions matter in Pahvo Dissension. There is a difference if we play badly, a difference if we play well. My actions in Pahvo Dissension directly impact playing the mission. My actions in Synth Wave have zero direct impact on the mission. Pahvo Dissension on Elite feels like my actions matter; Synth Wave feels like my actions are meaningless. Pahvo Dissension rewards us for team work. Synth Wave zero reward for team work (remember like a lot of players I don’t play for marks v time)
That is not a contradiction. Just because I want more then sit there and fire. It doesn’t mean I want to mind numbingly sit there and tap F key only for the mission to play the same as if I was shooting only. I did not outright lie you just misread what I wrote again. “Your inability to see anything to do but sit there and fire rests solely on your desire to not want to do anything but sit there and fire.” Again you are reading my posts wrong. Which invalidates your entire next section.
“This is entirely your fault, and your fault alone, because you don't want to do anything other then that, even when presented with the option to do so. Accept some personal responsibility instead of shifting it off onto other people.”
How about you try to stop blaming the DPS Community who have nothing to do with this and stop blaming players when its not the players fault.
EDIT: Wow you really are out of touch with the game and players. No wonder you cannot spot AFKers.