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Regarding the T6 updrades for Vaadwaur Juggernaut
daimon97
Member Posts: 368 Arc User
Is there really a reason? I feel like for the sake of fairness certain ships should get this. For instance Vaadwaur Jug is currently the strongest ship in terms of dps. She does not need a T6 upgrade at all. Certain T6 ships, can understand every T5 ship yes of course. But not Vaadwaur Jug...
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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What is the mitigating factor that decides 'this ship is too powerful?' and if that is something Cryptic can clearly define then shouldn't they use that as a guide before putting the ship in the game in the first place?
So for example, if a Juggernaut is considered 'too powerful,' then what about something like a Tzen-Tar that's right on par with the Jugger? (8 weapons, 12 consoles, 2 hangar bays, full miracle worker, 5/3 layout) or the MW Flight Deck ships? Where is the line?
I guess they could have said that Miracle Worker ships are all exempt because they have an extra console already.. but there is another rub.. now Miracle Worker ships would go from the best to the worst because they would be locked to 5 traits max while everything else can have 6. You see where this is going?
Simply put, it muddies the water too much to declare one ship 'too powerful.' Lets face it, at this point.. power creep is over the top anyway.. why even worry about it anymore? Bring on the 13 console, 6 Trait Juggernaut.. I still won't fly it because I hate the way it looks.
Agreed, but I obviously have bad taste anyway because I actually like the look of the Tzen-Tar. lol
Yea those can use some upgrades
Who in their right mind would use those upgrade tokens on a T5U when a T6 is likely to appear shortly.
But the post i quoted did not mention the Nova, but rather the Tempest and Steamrunner both of which have their fans in the development team (contrary to the Nova as it would seem).
Even so, the performance of the Nova is not that far behind T6 ships that it needs a crutch.
The looks old are and it is lacking a specialization seat, but performance wise it is a sold science vessel with a good turn rate allowing it to put those science powers on target far easier than some later ships. Enough of the Nova though, that has its own topic.
It looks like a broken Amarr Abanddon...
If shortlty means one or two years.. well, no... and the steamrunner does not have a fleet version either.. So any little upgrade does a lot fot it..
This move on the T6 upgrades seems to be their first move to the same thing, and I will explain why below, and why it will eventually wreck the game we all love.
A-THE CREATION OF WALLS
There are now free upgrades. This means for everyone you will have to choose which ships to keep and use. Remember after November no new player will be able to get a free upgrade token. They will be forced to farm phoenix boxes for tens of thousands of dilithium, or they will quit. They will have sub par ship now....which forces them to buy spend money to keep playing. This moves a free game back to pay-to-win....90% of games that were free that went back to pay-to-win failed, or are so empty its hard to do anything.
SO:
1-This move can be seen as reducing the core of total players in the game. It will have effects on events later that we all will feel.
2-It creates the first pay wall, and while it may not be seen as a big one, even little ones can dramatically effect the game.
B-BUY THE NEW/FARM THE NEW
In neverwinter in the last 2 years you are forced to buy and farm for the new better upgrades that offer the same traits or special feature that you once had. The first area hit here will be ships. The winter event is close at hand, and now any T6 ship for that event, including the recent summer is now less powerful.
1-Less ships for all. As not everyone will be upgrading every ship, most will never get used again. This means all those spent dollars on shipyard spaces, and active ship spaces will be empty for a long time. The people that spent money for all those extra spaces to fly different ships will feel cheated and some may leave the game.
2-Winter event ship. Will the new ship also include an upgrade? Will we be farming it for the trait alone and then discarding it? I have not seen anything that addresses these issues in any post by cryptic. Like in neverwinter this stuff is being rushed out without thinking for future content, and how it will effect the player base of the game as a whole.
C-CARTER TO THE DPS LEAGUES
This move seems like same move in neverwinter that carters to the elite players only. In neverwinter the walls are seen in gear score. Yet if you play the game there is older content that stops at a score of 15,000....then it jumps in 20,000 and 21,000....yet if you play people in game tell you that you need 23k and 24k to really be able to have fun.
Now in neverwinter the new regular content changed to the elite players later. With cryptic developement team now one team, the same that did this to neverwinter, we can assume that this will probably happen in STO within the next year or so.
This then will create another wall, as most dps league builds all have epic mark 15 gear. This requires either a lot of farm work, or money. Yet if you need this to enter the new missions and story area you create a wall blocking other players. Farming for all these upgrades takes time, and upgrade weekends are only 3-4 a year. So for many players there will be a 4 month waiting wall before they can play that content with others.
Lets admit here, and not kid ourselves, that in many fleets its very hard for most people now to earn fleet marks to get any good fleet gear, which dps league people say you currently need. Also with these changes coming, new fleet gear will become the BIS(best in slot). That is already a wall that will only make it so people will leave.
In neverwinter the dps elites refused to carry others, they left que's. If this happens in STO they're won't be much left. In neverwinter one result was that epic mounts were faster than very rare which anyone could get....but now everyone can travel at that speed. Eventually cryptic was forced to take away some of that elite power and give it to anyone to keep people playing.
Remember this isn't a game designed like Overwatch were leagues are formed and fight each other for real world prize money in tournaments. Its an MMO ment to be fun and entertaining, and way for many to relax, and a way for fans to enjoy the universe.
CONCLUSION
So before you jump onto the band wagon saying how great this all is.....PLEASE....think about the future of the game too.
In neverwinter I belong to an alliance of guilds, we had 5 alliances with 12 sub guilds, that means we had 65 guilds in the alliance chat, with 500 accounts per guild, or 32,500 accounts in that alliance. Filling a que for anything took seconds to a few minutes. Yet about a month ago when it took 45 minutes to fill a specific dungeon que I realized the game had truly died. No more where there big guild dragon hunts anymore, or guild battles.
I'm telling you this here in STO because we didn't see what the developement team was doing in time....until it was too late. As players you can get the word out, you can stop it from happening again here. There are few new players, there is no one to teach. The guilds have died, with no one on even in good ones that everyone wanted to be in. You can't pull someone through a dungeon anymore, because they are designed to need everyone in the team.....because your scaled to the content now. Believe me elites didn't like it when they got scaled down in their power.
There can be a positive or negative future in this. Right now Champions, and Neverwinter got negative results fro this team's changes in just 2 years. This is how it started in those games. If like before the people with who can influence the development team are ones that lead to a negative ending...this game like the ratings of Star Trek Discovery will come crashing down.
The first upgrade is free. The rest can be had from Phoenix or they can be purchased from the C-Store. The C-Store tokens can be sold on the exchange. The price on the store creates an artifical wall that prevents them from being all that expensive on the Exchange. Plus they have already said there will be other methods of obtaining them down the road. These are not going to be all that expensive. You get two of them for 2k Zen and that's without a sale.
Absolutely, insanely ridiculous.
As the game stands right now, you can easily handle anything you want in a free Event ship. Your assertion that a fully upgraded, all epic T6-X Ship is somehow required for content just shows how frighteningly little you understand about this game.
Again, absurd. There is no reduction in power to current ships and current ships are already overkill for this game. The game content isn't even being altered, just the 'top of the line' is getting a bit stronger. Irrelivant in a game where middle of the pack is still overkill. This is akin to saying that since the new Dodge Charger Hellcat can break 210 MPH your Honda Civic now isn't fast enough to go on the freeway.
Ridiculous.
Those of us in the DPS League already find the game laughably easy. Upgrades like this improve the struggling players far more then the top end. Top end players already have an easy time, they're already breaking DPS records in teamed runs.. you really think they need this? The people that can use this are those lower end players that need any boost they can get. Hate to tell you, but the DPS League.. we don't need this.. at all. What we want is harder content, not more powerful ships. This doesn't cater to League players at all, it just helps our absurd numbers get about 3% more absurd.
I don't know how it is in Neverwinter, but if you know as much about that game as you do about STO then I assume you don't either.
Conclusion is.. you should stick with Neverwinter because you have no earthly idea how STO works.
Agree with your point that person to whom you are responding is crying doom over nothing.
But actually it's three tokens for 2K zen. You get two upgrade tokens for 1 UR Phoenix token.
On top of which we get one freebie, and the Z store offerings will be at a 20% discount for the first week. This is clearly a good thing for the game, and has stimulated a lot of excitement in the community.
You are absolutely right and I thank you for the correction.
They are actually more affordable then I thought.
You have no earthly idea what you're talking about.
Speaking as a non-DPSer, I can do content in this game in a T5-U ship doing about 20k DPS. This ship upgrade will let me bump my favorite T5-U up a bit to do better. Perhaps more than one if I get the c-store token.
There is no doom and gloom here. Take it somewhere else.
*deadpan look*
How useful is a device slot gonna be anyways?
Batteries? I got the Collector's Edition of STO, meaning account unlock Red Matter Capacitor. I don't use individual batteries.
Summon items? I can use them out of my inventory.
Deuterium Surplus? Don't really bother with that honestly.
That leaves what I call the "Save My A** Device" from the Dividian arc.
Honestly we don't really have that many space devices to use, especially for us veteran players. Wouldn't mind having an extra device slot for ground though.
Console slot? Meh... not that much of a game changer. Although it would boost some ships that need more Tac capability like the Europa, but will probably also be used mostly for things that couldn't be squeezed into builds.
Starship Trait slot? Might affect builds more than anything else, but its tied specifically to that particular ship class you use it on. Switch ships, you lose that Trait. Also... only really useful if you have more than 4-5 Traits to slot on your Captain already. AND if its something that would actually benefit you and not just be there because you have nothing else. Slotting a cloaking Trait on a ship without a cloak because you have no other options means its kinda just... there.
While I don't think it matters much, if you have all the traits to empower a build you use, the sixth trait-slot will be THE biggest thing out of all the boons granted. The console-slot is actually huge too, but that matters more on ships without a T6 to upgrade. For my exotic-damage builds I already know the trait-candidates to add in the new slot. On top of the traits I already use it's gonna be... mad-scientist-material. But well.
Not so simple IMO.
T6 brought starship-traits and over time, mechanics like MD or pilot-manouvers to the table, in addition to just having more console-slots. And I REALLY DON'T want T7 to be a thing, ever. Upgrading ships of existing tiers a little further is okay. But that's the extent of it.
Even with 7 tactical consoles, the increase will be marginal.
The sweet spot is at 5 tactical consoles mostly.
Everyone just thinks in terms of supposed dps. But that's not all of the game's experience when it comes to ship. The real gain of this upgrade is the extra trait that can be slotted. This will boost the torpedo boats and exotic builds more than directed energy builds (like the vaadwaur juggernaut ones)... So... I get your drift, but it's not really as bad as you'd call it.
It's max DPS potential is a few fractions of a percent higher then a couple other ships. The idea that it's an instant 'I win' button is laughable. In practical use for the vast majority of captains, it's no more powerful then any other lock box ships. The ship is not the 'be all, end all' of Star Trek Online.