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New Support Carrier Bundle - Discussion

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    That would be great or even consoles that boost hanger pets. Why not tactical consoles that boost hanger pets damage instead of main weapons damage? The devs could even do an Eng, Sci, Tac consoles that all boost a different element of pets.

    That's a fantastic idea.

    It would also add in some diversity in builds since most people won't want to totally gimp the ship in favor of the pets. It would require captains to balance their tactical consoles between Hangar Pets and their ship weapons instead of just cramming locators anywhere they will fit.

    Personally, I would prefer to see these consoles restricted to 'Full Carriers' but that wouldn't be a deal breaker. I think ships like Flight Deck Carriers have enough going for them already.
    gaevsman wrote: »
    The Altamid console on the lobi store does that, so yeah, the mechanics is there...


    The Altmid Console does nothing for hangar pets. It does deploy a pet, but it does nothing to buff hangar performance in any way.
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,175 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    The Altamid console on the lobi store does that, so yeah, the mechanics is there...

    No you're thinking of the Swarmer Matrix.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,845 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    The Altamid console on the lobi store does that, so yeah, the mechanics is there...

    you're thinking of the https://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Swarmer_Matrix - an easy mistake to make given the name of the altamid set console​​
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  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 2,920 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    gaevsman wrote: »
    The Altamid console on the lobi store does that, so yeah, the mechanics is there...

    No you're thinking of the Swarmer Matrix.

    Yes, my wrong..
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,957 Arc User
    odd question... and i am taking they are, however, given the often misleading details from (ehem) cryptic, are these all available account wide?
    i re-read the page details and nowhere does it confirm, nor deny, that these are account wide. unless i missed it.
    meh

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    odd question... and i am taking they are, however, given the often misleading details from (ehem) cryptic, are these all available account wide?
    i re-read the page details and nowhere does it confirm, nor deny, that these are account wide. unless i missed it.

    Like all C-Store ships, yes.. they are account wide unlocks.
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  • kaikara#7584 kaikara Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    These aren't showing up in my Zen store, and neither is the 20% off. Anyone else have this issue?
  • saulblazesaulblaze Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Isn't the pricing of the bundle wrong? If the introductory price of the carrier bundle is 8000 zennies rather than the original 10000 zen then with the 20% off to all ships discount wouldn't the actual price be 6400 zen and not 8000 zen? Unless they 'mistakenly' hid the pricing with 20% off discount or the discount did not apply to the carrier bundle with the introductory price.
  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 891 Arc User
    These aren't showing up in my Zen store, and neither is the 20% off. Anyone else have this issue?

    If you are a console player, we won't get the new ships or discount until an undisclosed time in the future.
    saulblaze wrote: »
    Isn't the pricing of the bundle wrong? If the introductory price of the carrier bundle is 8000 zennies rather than the original 10000 zen then with the 20% off to all ships discount wouldn't the actual price be 6400 zen and not 8000 zen? Unless they 'mistakenly' hid the pricing with 20% off discount or the discount did not apply to the carrier bundle with the introductory price.

    I may be wrong, but I believe the introductory price IS the discounted price. They introduce a new bundle and then throw in a 20% discount.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Was surprised to find my Miracle Worker DSC Constitution can't equip/launch the Elite Stalker Fighter Squadron, but CAN equip/launch the Elite Frigates!
    Amusing, since the Frigates are around the same size as the DSC Constitution!


  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    These aren't showing up in my Zen store, and neither is the 20% off. Anyone else have this issue?

    Are you on Console? If so, this release was delayed to consoles.

    Link.

    The 20% ship sale is also PC only.

    Post edited by seaofsorrows on
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  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    These aren't showing up in my Zen store, and neither is the 20% off. Anyone else have this issue?

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  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 891 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Was surprised to find my Miracle Worker DSC Constitution can't equip/launch the Elite Stalker Fighter Squadron, but CAN equip/launch the Elite Frigates!
    Amusing, since the Frigates are around the same size as the DSC Constitution!

    Stalker fighters are still locked to Caitian carriers. Which means this new Caitian carrier is the only T6 carrier that can use fighters that cloak.
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    garaffe wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Was surprised to find my Miracle Worker DSC Constitution can't equip/launch the Elite Stalker Fighter Squadron, but CAN equip/launch the Elite Frigates!
    Amusing, since the Frigates are around the same size as the DSC Constitution!

    Stalker fighters are still locked to Caitian carriers. Which means this new Caitian carrier is the only T6 carrier that can use fighters that cloak.

    Can't the Squadron of Scorpions cloak too?
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 2,920 Arc User
    garaffe wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Was surprised to find my Miracle Worker DSC Constitution can't equip/launch the Elite Stalker Fighter Squadron, but CAN equip/launch the Elite Frigates!
    Amusing, since the Frigates are around the same size as the DSC Constitution!

    Stalker fighters are still locked to Caitian carriers. Which means this new Caitian carrier is the only T6 carrier that can use fighters that cloak.

    Can't the Squadron of Scorpions cloak too?

    Never seen them cloak, really.. :neutral:
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,957 Arc User
    garaffe wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Was surprised to find my Miracle Worker DSC Constitution can't equip/launch the Elite Stalker Fighter Squadron, but CAN equip/launch the Elite Frigates!
    Amusing, since the Frigates are around the same size as the DSC Constitution!

    Stalker fighters are still locked to Caitian carriers. Which means this new Caitian carrier is the only T6 carrier that can use fighters that cloak.

    Can't the Squadron of Scorpions cloak too?

    not sure as i dont have the ships yet, still waiting for more details...(even though i have a plan in mind), but i think the cloak is for the main ship, and the only fighters that can are the Cat Carrier ones. I would take that as a very small perk since the carrier itself has no cloaking like the others.
    meh

  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    garaffe wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Was surprised to find my Miracle Worker DSC Constitution can't equip/launch the Elite Stalker Fighter Squadron, but CAN equip/launch the Elite Frigates!
    Amusing, since the Frigates are around the same size as the DSC Constitution!

    Stalker fighters are still locked to Caitian carriers. Which means this new Caitian carrier is the only T6 carrier that can use fighters that cloak.

    Irrespective - having my DSC Constitution 'launch' two ships that are, basically, the same size is amusing.

    No doubt they'll fix it soon though.


  • starshine#7408 starshine Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I kind of feel the Styx needs an update now, as it feels bigger than these guys and they can carry frigates AND fighters
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  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 891 Arc User
    Can't the Squadron of Scorpions cloak too?

    I am not sure about the squadrons because I play on console and we haven't gotten them yet, but I can say that scorpion fighters do not cloak. The scorpion shuttle has a battle cloak, but for whatever reason, a battle cloak is not listed as one of the abilities of the fighter pets.
  • smi3thsmi3th Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    What I'd like to see for carriers would be a separate mastery system that enhances hangar pets specifically based on the level-ups your hangar pets have had instead of overall XP that the ship makes. So essentially it represents the growing experience level of your pilots rather than the ship as a whole.

    Even though fighters die quickly, in a Star Trek universe I would assume that carriers would have systems for retrieving pilots who have ejected from a dying fighter, just like they do nowadays. Transporters would presumably make this easier. So having the fighters gain separate experience still makes sense even if the fighters die.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,845 Arc User
    you're assuming that actual pilots are even aboard the fighters - that neural link thing admiral janeway used to pilot her shuttle was created at some point prior to 2404 in her timeline, and was presumably invented in this timeline around the same point as well

    i would imagine such a device has some range to it, so if it exists, pilots probably use it to fly their craft while being relatively safe behind meters-thick armor plating aboard the carrier​​
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  • sci321sci321 Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    smi3th wrote: »
    What I'd like to see for carriers would be a separate mastery system that enhances hangar pets specifically based on the level-ups your hangar pets have had instead of overall XP that the ship makes. So essentially it represents the growing experience level of your pilots rather than the ship as a whole.

    Even though fighters die quickly, in a Star Trek universe I would assume that carriers would have systems for retrieving pilots who have ejected from a dying fighter, just like they do nowadays. Transporters would presumably make this easier. So having the fighters gain separate experience still makes sense even if the fighters die.

    Basically, the current hangar rank up system, except it doesn't reset to level 0 when the pet dies and has to be relaunched, right?
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    Has to be relaunched at 0.

    Remember Cryptic needs to jealously guard Traits they have already created. Though things like Wingman are now a dime a dozen as they are part of the Infinity Space Trait Selection Box.

    A Caitian VR Doff that speeds up Launch is also a suggestion. My Discovery Character that flies the Miracle Worker Discovery Constitution also picked up the Mirror Engle for that Trait.
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  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    smi3th wrote: »
    Even though fighters die quickly, in a Star Trek universe I would assume that carriers would have systems for retrieving pilots who have ejected from a dying fighter, just like they do nowadays.
    Something like this actually exists ingame... Jem'Hadar attack ships may implement a kamikaze manuever when dropped below half health; when they do, they pop up a speech bubble to the effect of locking in their trajectory and preparing crew for emergency transport.

    As for the squadrons themselves: I've heard that they have the same health and damage as their counterparts; that makes no logical sense if true, given that each 'unit' is a group of six as opposed to a single craft. It would make far more sense for them to have the multiplied values you'd expect, with the caveat of their being only deployable from full carriers (which by design have larger hangar bays than strike wing escorts or flight-deck cruisers)... a restriction which should also apply to all frigate pets (if it doesn't already).
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    For those of you new to carriers and might want starting advice take a look at...
    Thanks; this proved informative. A bit further out, aside from their hopefully following through on squadron forms of all existing fighter bays, I think a new secondary spec is in order, devoted to improving the effectiveness of hangar pets. An obvious name for it: CAG.
    That would be great or even consoles that boost hanger pets. Why not tactical consoles that boost hanger pets damage instead of main weapons damage? The devs could even do an Eng, Sci, Tac consoles that all boost a different element of pets.

    This is a fantastic suggestion! They could do something very similar to what they did with the Colony consoles.


  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,957 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    For those of you new to carriers and might want starting advice take a look at...
    Thanks; this proved informative. A bit further out, aside from their hopefully following through on squadron forms of all existing fighter bays, I think a new secondary spec is in order, devoted to improving the effectiveness of hangar pets. An obvious name for it: CAG.
    That would be great or even consoles that boost hanger pets. Why not tactical consoles that boost hanger pets damage instead of main weapons damage? The devs could even do an Eng, Sci, Tac consoles that all boost a different element of pets.

    This is a fantastic suggestion! They could do something very similar to what they did with the Colony consoles.

    and make it carrier (new version types, not dreads or others, so support i guess) specific. no ability to plant it on other carrier types etc...
    meh

  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I'm wondering if the Squadron pets are not bound to the parent ship too. With my Miracle Worker (DSC) Constitution in mind it would be interesting to lauch a squadron of Stalker fighters alongside the Tactical Flyers. But I don't think said ship is considered a 'full carrier'.

    I'm thinking that stipulation only applies to the frigates. I didn't see any mention of limitations on the squadrons.
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    It really depends if the Squadrons are like the DCS Squadrons then I fully agree with you and this is a massive let down and a terrible design for new Carriers. But if they took DCS Squadron idea and actually made the Squadrons good and better then normal hanger pets then this could at last make full carriers interesting again. It all comes down to how good or badly they implanted those Squadrons. After the DCS I am worryed but I have to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.

    As I understand it Scorpion squadrons are not the same as Scorpion Hanger pets from the rom rep. The big question is this just a graphical thing that looks nice but is complete fluff in the way it functions like the DCS Squadrons or are they an improvement?

    The DSC squadrons really only have beam arrays. These birds look like they have cannon type weapons as well as some form of torpedo launcher, on top of gaining other things as you go up the tiers.
    The Stalkers, for example, according to the Dev Blog come with the "Thoron Torpedo Launcher", which I assume is the Thoron Generator console off the playable version. The higher tiers gain an Antiproton Sweep and Cloaks. The To'duJ fighters upgrade from Photon to Quantum Torps, and gain Rapid Fire, Scorpions gain High Yield for their Plasma Torps, and the JH fighters seem the least impressive as they just gain Directed Energy Modulation and Rapid Fire.
    lianthelia wrote: »
    And I hate that Carriers are completely inferior to Dreadnought Carriers and Flight Deck Carriers...no one says they need to be 100% but standard Carriers fall behind immensely compared to the other two

    Less weapons...less agility...less firepower or synergy...look I know you worship the Devs like they're gods, doesn't mean you or they're right.

    Here's the thing. Even in real life, Carriers are not front line warships. They are designed to hang back and let fighters do the work. Its in the name of the ship type. The purpose is to CARRY strike craft into battle. In RL as well as Sci-Fi, there are very few cases of a Carrier launching strike craft then charging in to join the battle. In Wing Commander, the Carriers do have guns, but they never go charging in. They hang back, and only use their guns when directly threatened by enemy strike craft or capital ships that get past the fighters and any allied capital ships with them. The only other carrier I can think of that fight more directly was the Venator class Star Destroyer from the Clone Wars in Star Wars, but that was mostly because they seemed to use her as not just a carrier, but a front line warship. Something the ship wasn't exactly designed for.

    In STO, they seem to follow that while allowing for more direct support rather than just being totally reliant on them. You're basically comparing apples to oranges. Different playstyles. FDCs and Dreads cater more towards the Cruiser playstyle, while Carriers are more actual Carrier playestyle with more of a science lean. Its less about the actual guns and more about what you can do to support your squadrons. The only thing they are inferior in is straight up firepower. You can counter the turn rate by mounting beam arrays easily and broadsiding, and by equipping gear that augments turn rate.
    As someone who has a Sarco, I know about turn rate woes. That thing's a brick. But she's a brick that can be nasty in a broadside. And the Command seating works pretty well for her. Suppression Barrage certainly helps slow down the enemy for my Elite Slavers to have fun.

    Of the sci-fi that does have carriers (not much does since the idea is actually rather silly for many of the reasons Roddenberry was dead set against carriers in Star Trek) quite a few of them are heavily armed hybrids more like real world Kuznetsov carriers than pure fleet carriers like the Nimitz or Ford classes.

    The Macross stuff with its heavy quantum canon armed carriers is probably the best example of that, though other, more traditional sci-fi has plenty of examples too, like the Mazianni carriers in C. J. Cherryh's Alliance-Union universe which are extremely deadly even without their riders (Mallory would often leave some or all of Norway's riders on picket or surveillance duty and take the carrier itself off on recon-in-force style patrols without worrying too much that she would not have enough firepower to take on whatever she had to without them). Even the Battlestars from the original BSG had that huge spinal gun and a few heavy ship-to-ship batteries in addition to all their anti-fighter popguns.

    I would have liked to see secondary deflectors on science carriers, but if the swarm fighters are unique to full carriers that is at least a little ways towards balance with the two-bay cruisers.

    I wont be able to afford the package, but I might be able to swing a singe ship from it while they are still on sale (otherwise it will have to wait for the next big sale or the T6 coupon). Of the set I will probably eventually get the Dominion one since it would be nice to have some variety for my faux Vorta and it looks enough like a Romulan V4 Vengeance class that it would not look out of place with my Romulan captains with a Romulan vanity shield.

    I would have preferred the Romulan carrier except for that really weird snapping turtle head it has (though I may go for that one instead anyway since it uses the singularity core and the Dominion ship doesn't), but maybe the snapping turtle looks better in 3D than it does in the pictures.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,957 Arc User
    there are always some things on most ships i find odd. however, with all these, i am getting to liking them more.
    as far as the rom one...at first and at times it still seems odd with that tail, but it then blends into the ship the more i look at it.
    the back side of the cat carrier at first was the same. but ive gotten to the point it actually is nice.
    meh

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