The ship uses the torpedo for damage, the turret and beam weapons are more for picking off incoming fire, fighters and the like, and for starting plasma fires.
I could use Emergency to Aux, but I only have three engineering skills. One has to be Reverse Shield Polarity (as was suggested here). Another has to be Engineering Team (for healing and debuff clearing). The third, I chose to use Emergency to Shields, because that also activates my Ablative Field trait (from the Pathfinder, I believe), providing me with much needed defense.
Tachyon Beam is a skill I like to use, because it is helpful to the team and it increases the damage output of torpedoes. I sometimes do swap it out for other things. Most NPCs will never actually lose their shields in any case, so the plasma damage from the torps is really how the weapons are doing damage. The real damage is coming from the exotic effects.
This is sort of where I was going with the suggestion of moving to a more exotic damage / torpedo damage build.
And this might sound crazy but you do NOT need the turret and beam weapons as much as you seem to think you do.
If you go to a more exotic-damage build, relying on torpedoes (which do not scale with power settings), then you don't need to put full power to weapons, you can put in in Aux, and this will boost your healing abilities and your exotic damage science abilities. You would also not need the EPtoAux that was suggested.
Also the plasma tac consoles that you have don't help the torpedo at all, I believe. And while plasma fires sound cool, you should be killing things quickly enough that boosting them really shouldn't be worth the effort.
Ya, I have the Ranger class TOS ship on a different character, and that's the way I wanted to build it, using torpedoes for damage. Not ideal on that ship, though, as it lacks the science officer skills to make it work properly.
The plasma consoles I'm using are for blanket plasma damage, I believe. I'll have to look. I wasn't aware the hyperplasma wasn't affected by that, though. That may mean changing my Romulan main a bit, too. In any case, the starting of plasma fires isn't a big thing, but can be surprisingly effective at times. You can still be doing damage while you get out of range to repair, for example. Not a LOT, but a bit.
There are two distinct types of "torpedo focused" builds. A non-sciencey one and a sciencey one. The Ranger Battlecruiser could be set up for a non-sci torpedo build.
In the case of a sci-torp build, the torpedoes are your backup / icing, while the science powers are your main damage source.
I'm not 100% certain, but I think the plasma tac consoles only boost energy weapons; that the plasma torpedoes have their own. And the plasma fire itself may be classified as exotic damage....
My rec of the Gravimetric and PEP torpedoes (above) is because their secondary effects are classified as exotic damage, boosted by science stats (like EPG), and include movement penalties.
Actually, three.
Exotic, energy torpedoes, regular torpedoes.
Those energy torpedoes are affected by a lot of things that boost that specific weapon type. With the many consoles available that boost multiple types (like the Lukari reputation one, and the Bajoran set), that's quite an important difference, I'd say.
Edit: an important difference because even with the limited amount of console slots we have of course, one can still boost many different energy torpedoes.
It may be sub-optimal compared to sticking with one type or exotics, but it can definitely be an effective (and fun!) build, using phaser agony, disruptor, crystalline and polaron torpedoes as one of my toons does with his Alita.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
The ship uses the torpedo for damage, the turret and beam weapons are more for picking off incoming fire, fighters and the like, and for starting plasma fires.
I could use Emergency to Aux, but I only have three engineering skills. One has to be Reverse Shield Polarity (as was suggested here). Another has to be Engineering Team (for healing and debuff clearing). The third, I chose to use Emergency to Shields, because that also activates my Ablative Field trait (from the Pathfinder, I believe), providing me with much needed defense.
Tachyon Beam is a skill I like to use, because it is helpful to the team and it increases the damage output of torpedoes. I sometimes do swap it out for other things. Most NPCs will never actually lose their shields in any case, so the plasma damage from the torps is really how the weapons are doing damage. The real damage is coming from the exotic effects.
This is sort of where I was going with the suggestion of moving to a more exotic damage / torpedo damage build.
And this might sound crazy but you do NOT need the turret and beam weapons as much as you seem to think you do.
If you go to a more exotic-damage build, relying on torpedoes (which do not scale with power settings), then you don't need to put full power to weapons, you can put in in Aux, and this will boost your healing abilities and your exotic damage science abilities. You would also not need the EPtoAux that was suggested.
Also the plasma tac consoles that you have don't help the torpedo at all, I believe. And while plasma fires sound cool, you should be killing things quickly enough that boosting them really shouldn't be worth the effort.
the turret and beam weapons are more for picking off incoming fire, fighters and the like
Exactly how are you targeting/hitting them, considering that your ship only has slotting available for two Tac BOFF abilities? And you've mentioned that you are using TacTeam and Beam Overload there? They don't autotarget. My instinct would be to go to all beams and use Fire at Will, or else to use the slot for Torpedo Spread and just take the hits.
The Science slots are all set for exotic damage boosts
(re: consoles)
Which consoles are you talking about? Are they EPG consoles or are they +Exotic Damage or something else?
As an experienced science captain... I look at your build and I want to scream. Not only is it a mess, but even if it wasn't, it's not what this ship is intended to do. You have seven science BOFF ability slots. Doesn't that tell you something? That science should be your primary weapon?
My "quick fix":
- remove the plasma tac consoles (as space is needed)
- get the Romulan rep console (for the 2pc set bonus w/ the torpedo)
- episode-farm the Chronometric Calculations set (all three pieces)
- get the Dyson rep Gravimetric torpedo (only requires tier 2) and/or the craftable Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo
- episode-farm the Bajor Defense deflector. Reengineer all mods to Control and/or EPG.
- slot all your torpedoes forward. You should never have enemies behind you long enough for an aft torpedo to be worth the slot.
- condense energy weapons to being all beams.
- shift power to max-Aux
Then, as budget allows:
- replace science consoles with Fleet Research Lab ones (Restorative Particle Focuser [CtrlX] [EPG])
- replace your impulse, warp, and shield with the Temporal rep set
- get the Dyson Proton Weapon (for the 2pc bonus with the torpedo)
Doubling down on the drain component of his build, may work just as well.
Tzenkethi ships will take heavy damage even from the rear once their shields are down. So someone removing those, is useful.
This is something that most people don't tend to notice or pay attention to. Many people in the Battlezone or the Lukari TFO's just keep shooting them from the sides and so on, then there's me draining their shields and then they happily destroy the enemy. Usually without recognising that, if it wasn't for my drains, their approach would have taken a lot longer.
Draining and then using torpedoes (whatever kind) for instance, may take longer in most cases because why bothering with removing shields when you can just use exotic stuff? There definitely are instances where the draining ship makes a huge addition to the team though, more so that most people would ever seem to realise.
So it really depends on what the OP wants to do.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
I don't think many entirely appreciate the damage Tzenkethi can do. Their torpedoes absolutely crush shields, and they love to continue hitting you from beyond 10k as well. This is especially true against a newer character that is leveling up, especially if you're past 50 as the curve is not at all friendly and doesn't wait for gear to catch up. And if you don't have the DPS output to kill them fast, you have to endure it for even longer.
And the new patrols are quite difficult for an unready science ship as well. They feature larger than normal groups and comparatively weak allies which means if you use a grav well or some other anomaly, all the aggro is on you all the time, unlike an STF or something. Frankly I'd be surprised if someone didn't have difficulty with them at first. Experience is usually a good teacher, just to learn the enemies and try different ways to react.
But, prevention is the best medicine. Learning to be ready to handle damage with resist BOFF powers like hazard emitters or polarize hull already running is important, as is staying beyond 5k when possible as that eliminates the danger from a number of powers. Keeping moving is critically important if you have aggro as the defense bonus is very important (doesn't seem to help at all with Tzenkethi torps though), and yes that creates difficulties with facings, however most science abilities don't require you to stay facing the target, they are fire and forget. Torpedoes are another matter, but learning when you can afford to face forward and when you need to keep moving and lower your DPS, is critical.
Yeah, my damage output really isn't the issue, I'm not having TOO much trouble there. It's survivability.
Hm. Then try a different approach. Use a Gravity Well to pull the enemy together, and then use Scramble Sensors. If they are busy fighting each other, they are not fighting you.
When that effect ends, hit Charged Particle Burst. If you have a Research Lab Scientist Duty Officer slotted, it will add Placate to the CPB, which will, again, stop them from shooting at you.
You're correct that such weapons exist, but my point was that there are two general types of ship builds that tend to use multiple torpedoes.... i.e.:
A. the prototypical "science-torpedo" build, where the torpedoes are the backup for science damage, which often use torpedoes like the Gravimetric, PEP, etc. that have secondary effects boosted by science stats, while using most of the consoles, BOFF skills, etc to support the science, or...
B. a "kinetic torpedo" build, where the torpedo damage is being relied upon as the primary damage source and BOFF skills, consoles, etc are being used to support the torpedoes. Usually this is done on tactically or (less often) engineering focused ship types.
In my experience, cluster torpedoes tend to fit into type B, and energy torpedoes are very rarely used in multi-torp builds (they are instead used as a single torp with a matching energy weapons build - for example using the Crystalline on an AP build).
I was trying to make the point to the OP (who had mentioned both a Varanus and a Ranger Battlecruiser) that both could be set up as "torpedo builds" but that they would be two vastly different kinds of torpedo builds.
I think your point is well understood. But it's wrong.
Energy torpedoes take their damage from a whole other class of consoles and set bonuses than do regular (/kinetic) or exotic torpedoes.
Just because no one bothered to create one (which isn't true either, as I've already pointed out that I'm flying an Alita that uses such a build consisting of multiple different energy torps) doesn't mean that it's not a wholly different kind of build compared to the other two.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Deflector and shield from Discovery rep (for regeneration boost, nothing to do with the torps actually)
Bajoran shield and warp core (for phaser, disruptor and plasma boosts)
Aft:
Advanced inhibiting polaron beam array (for phaser and polaron set bonus)
Eng console slots: Borg reputation console, Approaching agony (for phaser damage and crit chance), Bioneural infusion circuits
Sci console slots: Piezo-Electric Focuser (plasma and polaron boosts), Temporal Disentanglement Suite, Ordnance accelerator (phaser and polaron boosts)
Tactical: five spire torpedo boosters
Note:
- I could use another part of the Haywire set to add a disruptor boost with the Bioneural infusion circuits console.
- Also, one could replace the AP torpedo with a plasma one but I prefer the looks of the AP one. Adding another set part of the Piezo-Electric focusser would further boost plasma and polaron damage as a set bonus.
___
The only similarity with a regular kinetic torpedo build are the Spire consoles, I imagine. All other stuff is specifically aimed at increasing different types of energy weapons. This isn't just using a different kind of torpedoes, it's an entirely separate kind of build compared to exotic builds or regular kinetic ones.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
That said, all sci builds can be fun. Exotic as a bonus on top of a regular energy build, drain builds with quantum torpedo spreads (for additional artistic value )...
I must politely disagree with the part I have bolded. In my experience, Science damage builds are particularly unforgiving of compromise. If you can't go all-out, whole-hog Science, don't bother. Go big or go home.
Most other things have a point of sharply diminishing returns; EPG is the opposite. You must reach a certain point of critical mass, somewhere around 400-450, before things start to happen, and from there your ship becomes a death-dealing space monster. The only limit on how much you stack EPG is the need for adequate CtrlX
That said, all sci builds can be fun. Exotic as a bonus on top of a regular energy build, drain builds with quantum torpedo spreads (for additional artistic value )...
I must politely disagree with the part I have bolded. In my experience, Science damage builds are particularly unforgiving of compromise. If you can't go all-out, whole-hog Science, don't bother. Go big or go home.
Most other things have a point of sharply diminishing returns; EPG is the opposite. You must reach a certain point of critical mass, somewhere around 400-450, before things start to happen, and from there your ship becomes a death-dealing space monster. The only limit on how much you stack EPG is the need for adequate CtrlX
If there is one thing that should be emphasized about science it is that there is more to it than maximizing grav wells. Hybrid builds are entirely viable and are definitely more fun than grav well build #47. Just because grav well has all the best traits and is the easiest to use to maximum effect doesn't mean nothing else is viable.
That said, all sci builds can be fun. Exotic as a bonus on top of a regular energy build, drain builds with quantum torpedo spreads (for additional artistic value )...
I must politely disagree with the part I have bolded. In my experience, Science damage builds are particularly unforgiving of compromise. If you can't go all-out, whole-hog Science, don't bother. Go big or go home.
Most other things have a point of sharply diminishing returns; EPG is the opposite. You must reach a certain point of critical mass, somewhere around 400-450, before things start to happen, and from there your ship becomes a death-dealing space monster. The only limit on how much you stack EPG is the need for adequate CtrlX
If there is one thing that should be emphasized about science it is that there is more to it than maximizing grav wells. Hybrid builds are entirely viable and are definitely more fun than grav well build #47. Just because grav well has all the best traits and is the easiest to use to maximum effect doesn't mean nothing else is viable.
Both are correct. I do however dislike the idea of exotic/energy weapons hybrid builds due to the power management issues.
Yes its difficult, though the Risian ship trait may make that a lot easier in the future.
That said, all sci builds can be fun. Exotic as a bonus on top of a regular energy build, drain builds with quantum torpedo spreads (for additional artistic value )...
I must politely disagree with the part I have bolded. In my experience, Science damage builds are particularly unforgiving of compromise. If you can't go all-out, whole-hog Science, don't bother. Go big or go home.
Most other things have a point of sharply diminishing returns; EPG is the opposite. You must reach a certain point of critical mass, somewhere around 400-450, before things start to happen, and from there your ship becomes a death-dealing space monster. The only limit on how much you stack EPG is the need for adequate CtrlX
I disagree.
It worked for me. One of my newer Sci characters, who's using Elachi disruptors and exotic abilities, can almost as easily destroy stuff as my main pure-exotic Sci.
Things like Delayed overload cascade (for example) can be made very powerful even if you don't use every trait slot, console slot and other gear slot to maximise EPG damage.
For the other abilities, what is lost in terms of EPG damage is partly compensated for by the fact that you can have multiple cannons or dual beam banks (four in the case of my S31 Intel ship) firing constantly.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Deflector and shield from Discovery rep (for regeneration boost, nothing to do with the torps actually)
Bajoran shield and warp core (for phaser, disruptor and plasma boosts)
Aft:
Advanced inhibiting polaron beam array (for phaser and polaron set bonus)
Eng console slots: Borg reputation console, Approaching agony (for phaser damage and crit chance), Bioneural infusion circuits
Sci console slots: Piezo-Electric Focuser (plasma and polaron boosts), Temporal Disentanglement Suite, Ordnance accelerator (phaser and polaron boosts)
Tactical: five spire torpedo boosters
Note:
- I could use another part of the Haywire set to add a disruptor boost with the Bioneural infusion circuits console.
- Also, one could replace the AP torpedo with a plasma one but I prefer the looks of the AP one. Adding another set part of the Piezo-Electric focusser would further boost plasma and polaron damage as a set bonus.
___
The only similarity with a regular kinetic torpedo build are the Spire consoles, I imagine. All other stuff is specifically aimed at increasing different types of energy weapons. This isn't just using a different kind of torpedoes, it's an entirely separate kind of build compared to exotic builds or regular kinetic ones.
Would the fleet spire tactical consoles that boost torpedo damage work with torpedoes that are energy damage based?
...Exotic as a bonus on top of a regular energy build, drain builds with quantum torpedo spreads (for additional artistic value )...
I'd have to agree with this as I enjoy mixed builds myself and find them not ineffective. GW to clump up the enemy and a good quantum phase torpedo shield slam can be a lot of fun. Could add TBR's for additional damage or to move things around. Have also used DSR as well as photonic officer. A mixed build cruiser with a Lt and LtC science boff slot can have full weapons power but still run at 80+ auxiliary power. This sort of build isn't necessarily in direct competition with a full epg torp build but still has some nice synergies (even for your team mates).
I never said, (or at least didn't mean), don't use anything else. I meant don't let anything interfere with stacking EPG and CtrlX. Optimising those two still allows for plenty of other weapons and consoles.
I like the PEP torpedo, because EPG boosts the plasma cloud damage. I also like the Very Cold In Space Sci BOFF skill, from winter event store. This allows me to put GW3 in the Commander slot, and then VCIS 3 in the Lt Commander slot. If you throw those two together, the overlapping damage area is a meatgrinder of ships.
For energy management, I max Aux power, allocate 50 each to Engines & Shields, and then the rest to Weapons. With boosts and bonuses, this still allows a Weapon power of 75-90, which is...ehh, adequate. As for the suggestion that one can have cannons on an EPG build, and afford those cannons enough power to be effective without compromising Aux power, that's just laughably mistaken. Cannon are power pigs.
This was all far easier before they nerfed the Plasmonic Leech console into oblivion, but that's water under the bridge.
Deflector and shield from Discovery rep (for regeneration boost, nothing to do with the torps actually)
Bajoran shield and warp core (for phaser, disruptor and plasma boosts)
Aft:
Advanced inhibiting polaron beam array (for phaser and polaron set bonus)
Eng console slots: Borg reputation console, Approaching agony (for phaser damage and crit chance), Bioneural infusion circuits
Sci console slots: Piezo-Electric Focuser (plasma and polaron boosts), Temporal Disentanglement Suite, Ordnance accelerator (phaser and polaron boosts)
Tactical: five spire torpedo boosters
Note:
- I could use another part of the Haywire set to add a disruptor boost with the Bioneural infusion circuits console.
- Also, one could replace the AP torpedo with a plasma one but I prefer the looks of the AP one. Adding another set part of the Piezo-Electric focusser would further boost plasma and polaron damage as a set bonus.
___
The only similarity with a regular kinetic torpedo build are the Spire consoles, I imagine. All other stuff is specifically aimed at increasing different types of energy weapons. This isn't just using a different kind of torpedoes, it's an entirely separate kind of build compared to exotic builds or regular kinetic ones.
Would the fleet spire tactical consoles that boost torpedo damage work with torpedoes that are energy damage based?
...Exotic as a bonus on top of a regular energy build, drain builds with quantum torpedo spreads (for additional artistic value )...
I'd have to agree with this as I enjoy mixed builds myself and find them not ineffective. GW to clump up the enemy and a good quantum phase torpedo shield slam can be a lot of fun. Could add TBR's for additional damage or to move things around. Have also used DSR as well as photonic officer. A mixed build cruiser with a Lt and LtC science boff slot can have full weapons power but still run at 80+ auxiliary power. This sort of build isn't necessarily in direct competition with a full epg torp build but still has some nice synergies (even for your team mates).
The spire console thing is a good question. The crit part would certainly work but the torp part is not so straightforward. The official wiki say energy torps are enhanced by things that boost the particular energy type on all the energy torpedo pages, but none specify whether it is beam, cannon, or torpedo umbrella consoles (or some combination of the above) that boost them in an energy-agnostic way. At least one of them has a note that they are still considered torpedoes and so are not reflected by things that reflect beam and cannon fire, which further confuses the question.
The only thing to do would be to mount some and run parses to see which (if any) boost the damage (of course someone may have already done that, but if so a search did not turn up that directly answered the question).
I tend to run the hybrid builds too, they may not be quite as efficient as the meta builds but they are effective enough and fun to use.
I never said, (or at least didn't mean), don't use anything else. I meant don't let anything interfere with stacking EPG and CtrlX. Optimising those two still allows for plenty of other weapons and consoles.
And that is precisely what I disagree with. You're not doing a hybrid build if that is what you're doing, you're doing grav well build #47. Enjoy grav well build #47, its fine, but hybridizing your ship means not focusing on EPG and control, and likely means sacrificing some of it for something else.
So...I actually REALLY like hybrid builds. In fact, most of builds I actually use tend to be hybrids. The trouble is, hybrids are not easy or cheap to do. They are not good things to recommend when somebody needs help with this game. If they are DEAD set on a hybrid build...sure, by all means help with that project...but for 99% of the requests for help in this game, hybrids are not the answer.
I never said, (or at least didn't mean), don't use anything else. I meant don't let anything interfere with stacking EPG and CtrlX. Optimising those two still allows for plenty of other weapons and consoles.
I like the PEP torpedo, because EPG boosts the plasma cloud damage. I also like the Very Cold In Space Sci BOFF skill, from winter event store. This allows me to put GW3 in the Commander slot, and then VCIS 3 in the Lt Commander slot. If you throw those two together, the overlapping damage area is a meatgrinder of ships.
For energy management, I max Aux power, allocate 50 each to Engines & Shields, and then the rest to Weapons. With boosts and bonuses, this still allows a Weapon power of 75-90, which is...ehh, adequate. As for the suggestion that one can have cannons on an EPG build, and afford those cannons enough power to be effective without compromising Aux power, that's just laughably mistaken. Cannon are power pigs.
This was all far easier before they nerfed the Plasmonic Leech console into oblivion, but that's water under the bridge.
It works. That's all the evidence I need.
The point is, why would you only want to maximise EPG when you already have a toon that's exactly doing that? Going with cannons or beams in addition to EPG stuff brings variety and another way of playing the game, instead of, indeed, having 47 builds that are basically the same as foxrockssocks rightly points out.
Though I also understand where coldnapalm is coming from when pointing out that it's probably not the best advice to give to people who are having trouble getting stuff done in the game, in whatever way. My comments were more intended to argue that these things can be done and can be effectively, not so much that it would be wise for a newer or less experienced player to go for that (before using a more regular build).
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Deflector and shield from Discovery rep (for regeneration boost, nothing to do with the torps actually)
Bajoran shield and warp core (for phaser, disruptor and plasma boosts)
Aft:
Advanced inhibiting polaron beam array (for phaser and polaron set bonus)
Eng console slots: Borg reputation console, Approaching agony (for phaser damage and crit chance), Bioneural infusion circuits
Sci console slots: Piezo-Electric Focuser (plasma and polaron boosts), Temporal Disentanglement Suite, Ordnance accelerator (phaser and polaron boosts)
Tactical: five spire torpedo boosters
Note:
- I could use another part of the Haywire set to add a disruptor boost with the Bioneural infusion circuits console.
- Also, one could replace the AP torpedo with a plasma one but I prefer the looks of the AP one. Adding another set part of the Piezo-Electric focusser would further boost plasma and polaron damage as a set bonus.
___
The only similarity with a regular kinetic torpedo build are the Spire consoles, I imagine. All other stuff is specifically aimed at increasing different types of energy weapons. This isn't just using a different kind of torpedoes, it's an entirely separate kind of build compared to exotic builds or regular kinetic ones.
Would the fleet spire tactical consoles that boost torpedo damage work with torpedoes that are energy damage based?
...Exotic as a bonus on top of a regular energy build, drain builds with quantum torpedo spreads (for additional artistic value )...
I'd have to agree with this as I enjoy mixed builds myself and find them not ineffective. GW to clump up the enemy and a good quantum phase torpedo shield slam can be a lot of fun. Could add TBR's for additional damage or to move things around. Have also used DSR as well as photonic officer. A mixed build cruiser with a Lt and LtC science boff slot can have full weapons power but still run at 80+ auxiliary power. This sort of build isn't necessarily in direct competition with a full epg torp build but still has some nice synergies (even for your team mates).
The spire console thing is a good question. The crit part would certainly work but the torp part is not so straightforward. The official wiki say energy torps are enhanced by things that boost the particular energy type on all the energy torpedo pages, but none specify whether it is beam, cannon, or torpedo umbrella consoles (or some combination of the above) that boost them in an energy-agnostic way. At least one of them has a note that they are still considered torpedoes and so are not reflected by things that reflect beam and cannon fire, which further confuses the question.
The only thing to do would be to mount some and run parses to see which (if any) boost the damage (of course someone may have already done that, but if so a search did not turn up that directly answered the question).
I tend to run the hybrid builds too, they may not be quite as efficient as the meta builds but they are effective enough and fun to use.
The spire consoles enhance all energy torpedoes (the ones I listed, that is: PEP, Crystalline, Polaron, Phaser agony, Nausicaan disruptor.
At least that's what my tray says when hovering over the torps in Sol system with and without those consoles equipped.
I am kind of surprised that plasma torpedoes are also enhanced by these consoles. (I only switched to a five-forward weapon slots Fleet Gagarin earlier today after writing my previous posts, so that I didn't have to lose an AP torp when I tried including a plasma one.) Since we have consoles that are dedicated specifically to enhancing plasma torps only...
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
The spire consoles enhance all energy torpedoes (the ones I listed, that is: PEP, Crystalline, Polaron, Phaser agony, Nausicaan disruptor.
At least that's what my tray says when hovering over the torps in Sol system with and without those consoles equipped.
Thanks I wasn't sure about that. I probably shouldn't have hopped in with support of mixed builds in this particular thread though as what Cold just said is spot on...
So...I actually REALLY like hybrid builds. In fact, most of builds I actually use tend to be hybrids. The trouble is, hybrids are not easy or cheap to do. They are not good things to recommend when somebody needs help with this game. If they are DEAD set on a hybrid build...sure, by all means help with that project...but for 99% of the requests for help in this game, hybrids are not the answer.
Comments
Actually, three.
Exotic, energy torpedoes, regular torpedoes.
Those energy torpedoes are affected by a lot of things that boost that specific weapon type. With the many consoles available that boost multiple types (like the Lukari reputation one, and the Bajoran set), that's quite an important difference, I'd say.
Edit: an important difference because even with the limited amount of console slots we have of course, one can still boost many different energy torpedoes.
It may be sub-optimal compared to sticking with one type or exotics, but it can definitely be an effective (and fun!) build, using phaser agony, disruptor, crystalline and polaron torpedoes as one of my toons does with his Alita.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Doubling down on the drain component of his build, may work just as well.
Tzenkethi ships will take heavy damage even from the rear once their shields are down. So someone removing those, is useful.
This is something that most people don't tend to notice or pay attention to. Many people in the Battlezone or the Lukari TFO's just keep shooting them from the sides and so on, then there's me draining their shields and then they happily destroy the enemy. Usually without recognising that, if it wasn't for my drains, their approach would have taken a lot longer.
Draining and then using torpedoes (whatever kind) for instance, may take longer in most cases because why bothering with removing shields when you can just use exotic stuff? There definitely are instances where the draining ship makes a huge addition to the team though, more so that most people would ever seem to realise.
So it really depends on what the OP wants to do.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
And the new patrols are quite difficult for an unready science ship as well. They feature larger than normal groups and comparatively weak allies which means if you use a grav well or some other anomaly, all the aggro is on you all the time, unlike an STF or something. Frankly I'd be surprised if someone didn't have difficulty with them at first. Experience is usually a good teacher, just to learn the enemies and try different ways to react.
But, prevention is the best medicine. Learning to be ready to handle damage with resist BOFF powers like hazard emitters or polarize hull already running is important, as is staying beyond 5k when possible as that eliminates the danger from a number of powers. Keeping moving is critically important if you have aggro as the defense bonus is very important (doesn't seem to help at all with Tzenkethi torps though), and yes that creates difficulties with facings, however most science abilities don't require you to stay facing the target, they are fire and forget. Torpedoes are another matter, but learning when you can afford to face forward and when you need to keep moving and lower your DPS, is critical.
Hm. Then try a different approach. Use a Gravity Well to pull the enemy together, and then use Scramble Sensors. If they are busy fighting each other, they are not fighting you.
When that effect ends, hit Charged Particle Burst. If you have a Research Lab Scientist Duty Officer slotted, it will add Placate to the CPB, which will, again, stop them from shooting at you.
If you count Cluster Torpedoes, it would be four.
I think your point is well understood. But it's wrong.
Energy torpedoes take their damage from a whole other class of consoles and set bonuses than do regular (/kinetic) or exotic torpedoes.
Just because no one bothered to create one (which isn't true either, as I've already pointed out that I'm flying an Alita that uses such a build consisting of multiple different energy torps) doesn't mean that it's not a wholly different kind of build compared to the other two.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Morphogenic Polaron Torpedo
Crystalline antiproton torpedo
Phaser agony torpedo
Nausicaan energy torpedo
Deflector and shield from Discovery rep (for regeneration boost, nothing to do with the torps actually)
Bajoran shield and warp core (for phaser, disruptor and plasma boosts)
Aft:
Advanced inhibiting polaron beam array (for phaser and polaron set bonus)
Eng console slots: Borg reputation console, Approaching agony (for phaser damage and crit chance), Bioneural infusion circuits
Sci console slots: Piezo-Electric Focuser (plasma and polaron boosts), Temporal Disentanglement Suite, Ordnance accelerator (phaser and polaron boosts)
Tactical: five spire torpedo boosters
Note:
- I could use another part of the Haywire set to add a disruptor boost with the Bioneural infusion circuits console.
- Also, one could replace the AP torpedo with a plasma one but I prefer the looks of the AP one. Adding another set part of the Piezo-Electric focusser would further boost plasma and polaron damage as a set bonus.
___
The only similarity with a regular kinetic torpedo build are the Spire consoles, I imagine. All other stuff is specifically aimed at increasing different types of energy weapons. This isn't just using a different kind of torpedoes, it's an entirely separate kind of build compared to exotic builds or regular kinetic ones.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I must politely disagree with the part I have bolded. In my experience, Science damage builds are particularly unforgiving of compromise. If you can't go all-out, whole-hog Science, don't bother. Go big or go home.
Most other things have a point of sharply diminishing returns; EPG is the opposite. You must reach a certain point of critical mass, somewhere around 400-450, before things start to happen, and from there your ship becomes a death-dealing space monster. The only limit on how much you stack EPG is the need for adequate CtrlX
If there is one thing that should be emphasized about science it is that there is more to it than maximizing grav wells. Hybrid builds are entirely viable and are definitely more fun than grav well build #47. Just because grav well has all the best traits and is the easiest to use to maximum effect doesn't mean nothing else is viable.
Yes its difficult, though the Risian ship trait may make that a lot easier in the future.
I disagree.
It worked for me. One of my newer Sci characters, who's using Elachi disruptors and exotic abilities, can almost as easily destroy stuff as my main pure-exotic Sci.
Things like Delayed overload cascade (for example) can be made very powerful even if you don't use every trait slot, console slot and other gear slot to maximise EPG damage.
For the other abilities, what is lost in terms of EPG damage is partly compensated for by the fact that you can have multiple cannons or dual beam banks (four in the case of my S31 Intel ship) firing constantly.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Would the fleet spire tactical consoles that boost torpedo damage work with torpedoes that are energy damage based?
I'd have to agree with this as I enjoy mixed builds myself and find them not ineffective. GW to clump up the enemy and a good quantum phase torpedo shield slam can be a lot of fun. Could add TBR's for additional damage or to move things around. Have also used DSR as well as photonic officer. A mixed build cruiser with a Lt and LtC science boff slot can have full weapons power but still run at 80+ auxiliary power. This sort of build isn't necessarily in direct competition with a full epg torp build but still has some nice synergies (even for your team mates).
I like the PEP torpedo, because EPG boosts the plasma cloud damage. I also like the Very Cold In Space Sci BOFF skill, from winter event store. This allows me to put GW3 in the Commander slot, and then VCIS 3 in the Lt Commander slot. If you throw those two together, the overlapping damage area is a meatgrinder of ships.
For energy management, I max Aux power, allocate 50 each to Engines & Shields, and then the rest to Weapons. With boosts and bonuses, this still allows a Weapon power of 75-90, which is...ehh, adequate. As for the suggestion that one can have cannons on an EPG build, and afford those cannons enough power to be effective without compromising Aux power, that's just laughably mistaken. Cannon are power pigs.
This was all far easier before they nerfed the Plasmonic Leech console into oblivion, but that's water under the bridge.
The spire console thing is a good question. The crit part would certainly work but the torp part is not so straightforward. The official wiki say energy torps are enhanced by things that boost the particular energy type on all the energy torpedo pages, but none specify whether it is beam, cannon, or torpedo umbrella consoles (or some combination of the above) that boost them in an energy-agnostic way. At least one of them has a note that they are still considered torpedoes and so are not reflected by things that reflect beam and cannon fire, which further confuses the question.
The only thing to do would be to mount some and run parses to see which (if any) boost the damage (of course someone may have already done that, but if so a search did not turn up that directly answered the question).
I tend to run the hybrid builds too, they may not be quite as efficient as the meta builds but they are effective enough and fun to use.
And that is precisely what I disagree with. You're not doing a hybrid build if that is what you're doing, you're doing grav well build #47. Enjoy grav well build #47, its fine, but hybridizing your ship means not focusing on EPG and control, and likely means sacrificing some of it for something else.
A well-reasoned answer. Thank you, Napalm
It works. That's all the evidence I need.
The point is, why would you only want to maximise EPG when you already have a toon that's exactly doing that? Going with cannons or beams in addition to EPG stuff brings variety and another way of playing the game, instead of, indeed, having 47 builds that are basically the same as foxrockssocks rightly points out.
Though I also understand where coldnapalm is coming from when pointing out that it's probably not the best advice to give to people who are having trouble getting stuff done in the game, in whatever way. My comments were more intended to argue that these things can be done and can be effectively, not so much that it would be wise for a newer or less experienced player to go for that (before using a more regular build).
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
And @protoneous
The spire consoles enhance all energy torpedoes (the ones I listed, that is: PEP, Crystalline, Polaron, Phaser agony, Nausicaan disruptor.
At least that's what my tray says when hovering over the torps in Sol system with and without those consoles equipped.
I am kind of surprised that plasma torpedoes are also enhanced by these consoles. (I only switched to a five-forward weapon slots Fleet Gagarin earlier today after writing my previous posts, so that I didn't have to lose an AP torp when I tried including a plasma one.) Since we have consoles that are dedicated specifically to enhancing plasma torps only...
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.