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[HOUSE DIVIDED] "The Centre Cannot Hold" and "Khitomer Discord" Feedback and Discussion

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,482 Arc User
    Really, the old Featured TFO Token Buyout always released when the Featured TFO started at 20% off, or 80 Zen per day with an Ultimate Upgrade.

    Also, don't forget that the old Weekend Events like Kobayashi or Sompek are now 14 (21) day Events and the First Contact DAY Event of a limited duration (longer Weekend), has now joined its 14 (21) Day Brethren (or Siblen if you must).

    The Summer and Winter Events went from 25 days needed to 20 but have dropped to a 50% cushion from an 85% one. The Anniversary also went from 25 days needed to 20 but lost the 10 day edge (40%) that running the Featured Episode (or 2) would provide to being worth 5% Daily.

    Winter, Summer, and Anniversary were/are the Lobi Buyout Events, all the others are Zen based. The old Zen based Buyouts were considerably cheaper and gave you an Ultimate Upgrade Token (or a considerably less worthy Upgrade Token for First Contact Day).

    Yep, they made it easier for us, that's for sure.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,754 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    “And, as not only I, but other people, and Cryptic themselves, have pointed out numerous times, the counter number on the old TFO menu were always wrong. So no, you weren't using them to see when other people wanted to play the content you liked, as they were never accurate to how many people were playing.”
    They were never 100% accurate as there was a delay before it showed people but that doesn’t matter. So what if it showed 3 people when there was really 4 that was enough for them to be useful and allowed people to play more TFO’s together.
    That UI change has had a negative impact and made QoL worse for people like me and caused us to play less TFO’s of the ones we like. It is a fact it is now harder to find strangers to play the TFO’s that I like to play and it now takes longer to get into those TFO’s because like minded people cannot find each other anymore. How ever you look at it the UI change made QoL worse with no single positive feature. It was just flat out worse. We could have all the positive features of the UI back without any negative impact on Random Task Force side.


    “So what exactly is the negative QoL here?”
    They moved the spawn point too close together so when people start with large ships you get stuck on each other and cannot move. They added a horrible static effect a few revamps ago which hurts some people’s eyes and makes no logical sense.
    They removed tactics and dumbed down gameplay mechanics so swapping weapon choice and damage type don’t matter which makes the entire thing simpler and more boring to play.

    They made it so more then half the TFO is sitting AFK with nothing to do but watch 3 different timers. Yes the briefing timer is good but its way to long and could but cut in half which would give it the same positive outcome with none of the negative outcomes. When a TFO has 3 long timers with a player spending 50% of the TFO watching a timer QoL is worse.


    “which only means you actually have to adhere to the mechanics, instead of just being able to sit there and vape it without a care in the world.”
    That is wrong and funny because that’s precisely the opposite of what happened for me and others. Before I changed tactics to adhere to the mechanics which was fun. Now its fly forward, sit their AFK vaping without a care in the world bored stiff spending 50% of the TFO doing absolutely nothing but watching 3 timer count down and the other 50% just sitting there watching a hitpoint bar count down without moving. They very thing you say they fixed is the very thing they caused to happen. Which is why I went from playing it daily to never going near it again and it wasn't just me but many of the regulars ended up doing the same thing and then abandoned it because Qol was worse.
  • dheffernandheffernan Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    dheffernan wrote: »
    As for what the writers of DS9 or any series did, keep in mind that they're the same people who couldn't keep the sex of Data's cat straight.
    Spot was in TNG, DS9 had different writers
    starswordc wrote: »
    For reference, this is what Som said to defend the existence of Section 31 a while ago: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/comment/13475696

    It's pretty much a "death of the author" theory based on unintended audience interpretation.
    It literally isn't
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/For_the_Cause_(episode)
    Eddington's final speech in this episode demonstrates Star Trek: Deep Space Nine's move away from the idyllic Federation seen in both Star Trek: The Original Series and Star Trek: The Next Generation. This speech builds upon Sisko's line "it's easy to be a saint in paradise" from "The Maquis, Part II", Quark's speech from "The Jem'Hadar", the 'hell on Earth' of "Past Tense, Part I" and "Past Tense, Part II", and the "paradise never seemed so well armed" line from "Paradise Lost". Of special importance in Eddington's speech is the line "Nobody leaves paradise," implying nobody should have any reason to leave it, nobody should want to leave it, precisely because it is a paradise, and if somebody does want to leave, then obviously, there is a problem somewhere. This recalls Ira Steven Behr's use of the quotation from Harold Pinter and the notion that what may appear to be paradise, actually has weasels under the coffee-table (see 'Background information' for "The Maquis, Part II" for more on Pinter). Taken together, all of these examples serve to further Behr's examination of Gene Roddenberry's utopia and his idealistic view of the future. Eddington's speech however, especially his comparison with the Borg, is perhaps the harshest indictment of the Federation yet seen.
    Ira Steven Behr made it pretty clear, both in show, and IRL, that he disagreed with Gene's view of a perfect future, and went to lengths to criticize, and deconstruct it.

    DS9 was still being run by Berman and Braga; institutionally it's the same shop.

    As for the rest, it's a great explanation of why The Orville is the best Trek show around.

    @Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
  • iamjmphiamjmph Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    Your maths here need a fine tuning. Not all events have a 6k buyout. Some have 2k, some have 3k and this one has 6k. Plus, not all buyouts are in Zens, as some are in lobbis. I think the general rule is that the 14 tokens 21 days events have a 3k buyout and the 20 tokens month long events have a 6k buyout, while the exceptionnal shorter events have a 2k buyout.
    Ahh thanks i didn't know that... but still an extra 2000 zen for 4 more "tokens"(i know we dont use tokens anymore but we did then) and no ultimate upgrade is... not an improvement at all.
    That is NOT an improvment...
    To me, the worst loss was losing the unfinished events. Before, unfinished events lingered around for as long as you had enough slots, meaning nearly forever, and you could complete them at a later date. Now, unfinished events simply go without a fair notice after the second major update after the end of the event and you can't complete them later on. They made an exception with the Winter Wonderland rerun, but people who didn't finish the other events simply lost their chance and their progress.[/quote]

    Can't you buyout whats unfinished? Or is it limited?

  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,988 Arc User
    uh yes, because 5m is pennies compared to what bots can actually pull in​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,482 Arc User
    Event Dilitium Rewards are now 25k, not 50k.

    9 Admiralty Assignments not 10.

    I had my Discovery Character up to 2.4 Million Unrefined earlier in the year.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,754 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    That has nothing to do with bots, and bots are generally not running events, they are admiralty farming.

    Not being able to run events on multiple characters was because they made the system more account wide, since most people complained about having to run it on multiple toons to feel like they "optimized" the event.
    That's simply false. Bots run featured TFOs on loop all day long and gather insane amount of rep and dill in no time during events. And if you're a night owl like me running TFO at like 3 or 4 am Eastern time, you'll find that getting two bots that simply fly to A then to B to only fire at enemies getting withing their range is fairly common. Before, when events ran simultaneously on all toons, the script was, run the tfo, switch to next toon, run the tfo, switch to next toon, run the tfo etc... in a loop allowing tons of toons to gather tons of dill and rep. That way, all toon cashed their daily bonuses on all rep and kept gathering more, while the guy operating the bots had tons of toons for daily refining.

    Making the events unique account wide means that the botters only got the 50k dill ore once instead of getting it 10+ times. It's a beginning, but it's not stopping botters.

    Bots running admiralty?? How?? Once you max out your admiralty, you can run 10 concurrent admiralty missions. Given most are around 1h long, and several only take 15 or 30 minutes, that means your whole ship roster (mine was about 100 ships) gets stuck in maintenance after a two hour intense admiralty session, and whatever's left can't run anything. Then what? (And is it even feasible to begin with? No matter what's your ship roster, the admiralty missions can come up with strange requirements and I've never seen a script kid being able to come up with a fluid logic AI script able to manage such parameters, client side.)

    Do you seriously think the people showing screenshots with approximately 5M dill ore acquired all that in a legit way?
    Its not something I tried but scripting Admiralty should be easy. Admiralty feels doable to me if a bot ran a similar process to what I do manually. As long as you don't worry about getting 100% its a really fast process. Just use 1 ship per mission. I tend to find if I just select the bottom ship from the list I have around about a 75% unsuccess rate on average.

    First I only do the Ferengi admiralty only then all you do is scroll to the bottom of the list put 1 ship on mission press start, select next mission and you don't even need to scroll this time just assign 1 ship and it jumps to bottom. Repeat you can have all the slots filled within 2 or 3 mins. Before the changes I did this process for 2 admiralty's and never ran into any ship shortage problems. I do have 2 extra step where I pause if I see 1k dill and add an extra ship to get 100% and I pause to add extra ships on the main 10/10 missions. But a bot can just skip that and go with bulk missions.

    This method is suboptimal for maxing out dill per admiralty mission. But time wise it fly's though admiralty and brings in more then 60k if not 80k+ a week with just 1 or 2 checks a day. If its a bot you may as well do 2 admiralty's or 1 admiralty but checking every hour or two. Its not hard to get a ton of ships with all the low price T5 and under ships and shuttles. No idea if people are botting this but it seems feasible.

    Perhaps I just haven't noticed or its wrong time of day but I haven't seen bots or gold sellers in a long time. Many years ago it use to be daily including chat and mail spam.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,091 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    After a couple months of minimal playing time (probably being one of the few people who are not working in an essential position yet have way less time than at the beginning of the year) I came back to those two new missions. Gotta say I am not impressed. These missions would have been very fine in them early days, but the last few years have seen such a sharp increase in quality that they feel out of time for now.

    Not talking about the technical quality here, that is fine, albeit unspectacular. Slight changes in graphics and similar are all to the benefit. Also kudos for allowing some differences for Feds and KDFs and their respective allies in who trusts you in the end or even the minor issue of a slightly different beam in point.

    But both gameplay and story wise, they fall short.

    Gameplay in "Center" starts off fair enough with the ground part. Run around to get a bit of story, enemies beam in, shooty shooty, what's next? Next is four distinct space battles (which I will revisit in my opinion about the story). While I appreciate the slightly differing gameplay with different enemies, the part where you fight J'Ula - and don't know whether you're on an invisible timer or need to drain her health or what will make this progress - is tedious. This lack of feedback of any progress is annoying. Also, having four battles feels artificially stretched.

    Speaking of "annoying", in "Discord" we have the trusted old trope of backtracking the same area. Down the area, up again, down again on the lower level, get back on top level, a bit of up and down before going up. At first it is at least somewhat motivated by the relays (though the closest relay to J'ula's position would be the center one ...) but going left and right downstairs is really just annoying backtracking, suddenly this door is open just because. Even if the area is small, this could have been done better IMO. Also the STO UI is just not meant to enter lock codes.

    Worst was the Ja'rod fight though. He's not particularily strong or bossy, so he will go down quickly. Just he won't, he will stand around untargetable until you got rid of his minions, then slowly jog to the next room, either waiting for you if you're slow or you could easily overtake him instead, getting some new minions beamed in, rinse and repeat. This completely destroys any aspect of urgency or flow of battle and majorly grates me.

    Kudos for the idea of rewards for the "saving civilians" part to get some motivation in, even if ex post, (still wondering why there wasn't an achievement for saving all, but found the "You've done this before" achievement to be funny) but everything around you during that phase is off. Not enough enemies to really hurt you or make it feel like a battle area . Then an overlong timer for the final part just shooting underpowered corrupted elachi with no need to actually do so whatsoever.

    Final space battle was fine though, well paced, good feel of progress. Tracking back myself though: the opening space scene was again sub par. Beam out after damage enemies are bad enough, but so few that this scene just lasts mere seconds just makes it add an unnecessary loading screen.

    And storywise, well ...

    "Center" ground was somewhat motivated which you cannot say about the space part. Battles and enemies are all over the place, even with all of them being connected to the major plot there was for me a total lack of coherency. Klingon rebels, Starfleet ships with viruses around a space station. Elachi coming from a rift. Finally random J'Ula in random place just to commit a war crime. Was waiting for J'Ula inspired Breen attacking Romulus until Tzenkethi reinforcements help you out, then fighting T'Ket over Kobali Prime, and finishing off with a ground battle in Paradise City. Well, not exactly waiting, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all. There were just too many parts thrown together in too quick of a succession to make sense of it during the episode and only revisiting it makes it understandable.

    And then in "Discord" we get the not at all suddenly introduced Alliance chairman, the dea ex machina A'detpa, and of course Sela 2.0 aka J'Ula, having committed various extreme war crimes we need her to fight the common enemy, an overused trope. Also as things have been going so far she seems to be the way more dangerous foe than a renegade chancellor. Oh, I forgot, now he has the "evil ball" McGuffin (which was a bit easy to get, wasn't it?), so J'Ula's not that bad anymore. Also can anyone explain to me how there are enemy ships above this major conference in the beginning without a fleet of (a) KDF security and (b) delegate vessels fighting them?

    The ending however was good, main KDF hates us, our faction hero believes us, others don't. Not really new and original but fitting here and opening up for a better story to come.

    In the end I understand that (a) not every episode can be equally to my liking, and (b) these last few months certainly weren't the ideal conditions to pop out top level content, but I can't say I really liked them. Center gets 3/10, mostly for the annoying space part, Discord 6.5/10 because some gameplay was enjoyable but the storyline wasn't up to the usual standards.

    Edit: some typos and grammar errors fixed. Also two or three minor points.
    Post edited by xyquarze on
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,754 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    That has nothing to do with bots, and bots are generally not running events, they are admiralty farming.

    Not being able to run events on multiple characters was because they made the system more account wide, since most people complained about having to run it on multiple toons to feel like they "optimized" the event.
    That's simply false. Bots run featured TFOs on loop all day long and gather insane amount of rep and dill in no time during events. And if you're a night owl like me running TFO at like 3 or 4 am Eastern time, you'll find that getting two bots that simply fly to A then to B to only fire at enemies getting withing their range is fairly common. Before, when events ran simultaneously on all toons, the script was, run the tfo, switch to next toon, run the tfo, switch to next toon, run the tfo etc... in a loop allowing tons of toons to gather tons of dill and rep. That way, all toon cashed their daily bonuses on all rep and kept gathering more, while the guy operating the bots had tons of toons for daily refining.

    Making the events unique account wide means that the botters only got the 50k dill ore once instead of getting it 10+ times. It's a beginning, but it's not stopping botters.

    Bots running admiralty?? How?? Once you max out your admiralty, you can run 10 concurrent admiralty missions. Given most are around 1h long, and several only take 15 or 30 minutes, that means your whole ship roster (mine was about 100 ships) gets stuck in maintenance after a two hour intense admiralty session, and whatever's left can't run anything. Then what? (And is it even feasible to begin with? No matter what's your ship roster, the admiralty missions can come up with strange requirements and I've never seen a script kid being able to come up with a fluid logic AI script able to manage such parameters, client side.)

    Do you seriously think the people showing screenshots with approximately 5M dill ore acquired all that in a legit way?
    Its not something I tried but scripting Admiralty should be easy. Admiralty feels doable to me if a bot ran a similar process to what I do manually. As long as you don't worry about getting 100% its a really fast process. Just use 1 ship per mission. I tend to find if I just select the bottom ship from the list I have around about a 75% unsuccess rate on average.

    First I only do the Ferengi admiralty only then all you do is scroll to the bottom of the list put 1 ship on mission press start, select next mission and you don't even need to scroll this time just assign 1 ship and it jumps to bottom. Repeat you can have all the slots filled within 2 or 3 mins. Before the changes I did this process for 2 admiralty's and never ran into any ship shortage problems. I do have 2 extra step where I pause if I see 1k dill and add an extra ship to get 100% and I pause to add extra ships on the main 10/10 missions. But a bot can just skip that and go with bulk missions.

    This method is suboptimal for maxing out dill per admiralty mission. But time wise it fly's though admiralty and brings in more then 60k if not 80k+ a week with just 1 or 2 checks a day. If its a bot you may as well do 2 admiralty's or 1 admiralty but checking every hour or two. Its not hard to get a ton of ships with all the low price T5 and under ships and shuttles. No idea if people are botting this but it seems feasible.
    Coding something like that would be feasible, but repeating the exact same process would have disastrous outcome. The first couple Ferengi missions would be suboptimal as you mentionned but everything else would be a chain failure.
    Why would it be a chain failure? All you do it pick the bottom ship from the list and put 1 ship in only every time. I do that myself without even looking at the stats and its never been a chain failure. It works surprising well as long as you have a decent pool of ships. Its worked for me fine for years so I don't see why it will be disastrous. Suboptimal yes but it works.

    The goal with this method isn't to get max dill per mission. The goal is to go though the missions as fast as possible to make the main 10/10 story missions trigger more often.

  • frtizoidfrtizoid Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    All, in general these two missions are very good. As has been previously reported, the "Leading by Example" accolade is broken. Hopefully this will be repaired. While doing this repair, for us accolade hunters, perhaps the accolade "Open Rebellion" can be adjusted so that rebel "kills" can be counted for Federation characters. Thanks
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 910 Arc User
    Just finished both the eps in the last two days, for the daily count. It was nice to see the other side of Klingon life, and homeworld...but, I am sorry the meshing of old no-hair Klins with the current ones.

    I cannot accept...

    The virus potency against 25th century tech...not plausible.

    The second half was a HAIL MARY throw, but it was digestible at best.

    But yes, under the directive of the License holder that owns the IP, this has to exist.

    Sorry to hear, the IDEA well is running a bit dry...a pity that other materials out there cannot be utilized with greater zeal, to give a deeper depth to this beloved gaming IP.

    So...going forward, let the BLOOD WINE FLOW!!!!!

    51842580273_536fe29c8c_z.jpg
    SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 12th-year journey
    Vna res, una mens, unum cor et anima una. Cetera omnia, somnium est.















  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,988 Arc User
    these are the same people who STILL haven't rediscovered fuses and only just rediscovered seatbelts after the shinzon incident - yeah, they don't have firewalls​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • sauron90805sauron90805 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Its not quite the slog fest the end of the Gamma Quadrant series was and the more recent Discovery missions are, but is near close as I could only bring myself to replay these once on an alt. Wave killing is just tedious to play and kills the pacing of the story being told.
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