Look, I’m not saying that Borg RAs were “hard”. I’m not saying that a player couldn’t still have solo’d some of this back when (I could solo the tac cube... but it took [i]time[/i]). But no one [i]melted[/i] the tac and especially the unimatrix [i]solo[/i] except maybe the ones that actually min/maxed their builds, and even then it wasn’t anywhere near as quickly as they do now. You still were able to reach stuff and had plenty of time to feel like you were at least contributing before it died.
Now maybe some of this is because the devs nerfed content, but there’s no denying that players are also capable of achieving much higher dps now, too, than they used to be able to.
The last time the Tholian RA was around I took in one of my Characters that was in a Mega Grav Well Legendary Intrepid. That Alert didn't last more than a minute.
Today, I did the Borg RA because of an Endeavor. Yesterday, I queued for a Tzen'kethi RA. I guess Kael scared off folks because that didn't pop, so I switched to the BZ.
I tried doing a Tholian endeavor that required 60 (I think, it was the hard one) kills by using the RA. I got 2.
Yeah, in the Endeavor the web nodes count as well as the ships, so you get sixty before it's half over with.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
While I agree that there shouldn’t be a hard cap, I do believe that with everything we have in game as of now can be combined to too powerful effects. I would be in support of a nerf, and hard, but I’m not going to actively advocate for one cause I know the storm that would create and, yes, a loss of players and money for Cryptic. As I think I said in another thread, Cryptic has let the genie out of the bottle.
While I agree that there shouldn’t be a hard cap, I do believe that with everything we have in game as of now can be combined to too powerful effects. I would be in support of a nerf, and hard, but I’m not going to actively advocate for one cause I know the storm that would create and, yes, a loss of players and money for Cryptic. As I think I said in another thread, Cryptic has let the genie out of the bottle.
See...I would be fine with a nerf...IF it stuck. The last two major nerf cycles have had all that power come back within weeks. No point in that. And at this point, I don't think anything they do will stick. They need to fundimentally change the way ships are built...like say, no stacking of consoles at the very least. If they won't do something like that...nerfs are meaningless as they will just sell you the power back in a couple of weeks.
well having disminishing returns on stats that boost damage would be a good start in getting the top level of firepower lower and keeping it lower, since it would solve many issues by itself. One of the issues with nerfs is that it should hit of the top end of DPS without harming the low end, while at same time not seeming like your punishing people for "being too good at the game".
Personally one the majors things we'd need is a rework in NPC AI, at the moment there's really nothing there if you don't kill them in seconds just damage sponges that take ages to take down. Now if there was challenge at high end that wasn't the mobs having tons of HP and hitting hard(or having random 1 shot mechanics) to that only true challenge is killing them before they kill you I certainly wouldn't mind fights that lasted longer. Maybe even have tier AI system where the mobs used more mechanics (and used them more intelligently) at higher difficulty levels.
Remember when the Borg Unimatrix ships from Red Alerts used to actually take a full team a while to kill?
Ah, those were the days! :P
Now I'm lucky if I can even full impulse back to it in time to even get a single shot off before it's dead.... XD
Joking aside, I'm not finding them as much fun anymore cause of this.
Issue is god damage.
Folks can erase the toughest of ships in no time.
For the good of the game, it should be limited, but folks no like that.
No...damage cap is a TERRIBLE idea and bad game design. Not only that, it will cut into their sales. So bad for the players. Bad for the company. Bad basic game design. That is the exact opposite of for the good of the game.
Bad idea, for YOUR EMOTIONAL STATE, not for the game.
But I won't get into this.
Far too many bias here abou it.
Seems people can't think, just feel.
Hence the state of the planet.
Klingons don't get drunk.
They just get less sober.
Remember when the Borg Unimatrix ships from Red Alerts used to actually take a full team a while to kill?
Ah, those were the days! :P
Now I'm lucky if I can even full impulse back to it in time to even get a single shot off before it's dead.... XD
Joking aside, I'm not finding them as much fun anymore cause of this.
Issue is god damage.
Folks can erase the toughest of ships in no time.
For the good of the game, it should be limited, but folks no like that.
No...damage cap is a TERRIBLE idea and bad game design. Not only that, it will cut into their sales. So bad for the players. Bad for the company. Bad basic game design. That is the exact opposite of for the good of the game.
Bad idea, for YOUR EMOTIONAL STATE, not for the game.
But I won't get into this.
Far too many bias here abou it.
Seems people can't think, just feel.
Hence the state of the planet.
Wow! How a single post can ensure that I’ll pass on the next 100 posts from you.
Too bad as detailed hard cap to DPS reasoning generally makes for one of the most fun to read stuff in forums.
Perhaps you give it a little try anyway? I’ll promise I read it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Says the person lashing out with an emotional response to their terrible idea because they can't logically argue for it.
Incorrect.
I have, with logic and proof, said why it was necessary, and how it could be implemented.
Go look it up.
The only responce I KEPT getting: we no likee, no want.
Even the Moderator had it closed, for the SAME reasons.
Such a shame.
Klingons don't get drunk.
They just get less sober.
If the bickering continues i have no doubt this topic will be closed as well so let cooler heads prevail.
I feel that a damage cap is bad design because it stops player investment (both time and money) due to emotional events.
Adding something like a stacking resistance to whichever damage type received seems a more appropriate way to address the power creep.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
If the bickering continues i have no doubt this topic will be closed as well so let cooler heads prevail.
I feel that a damage cap is bad design because it stops player investment (both time and money) due to emotional events.
Adding something like a stacking resistance to whichever damage type received seems a more appropriate way to address the power creep.
Pretty much yea.
You know the only problem we look at here is that cryptic rushed out an event with maps only available on normal difficulty where of course the implications of the massive progression curve we have in this 10 years old game surface. Every player, no matter how strong or weak he is gets funnelled through the same setting and meets.
With the re-introduction of the elite mode of infected space and kithomer vortex cryptic ultimately validated their power creep by directly designing contend for ~110k DPS + players. It is basically justyfied now, game sided, by the devs that players can get as powerful as they can.
It’s a bit unlucky for this event without any alternatives for high end peeps but whoever gets nostalgic about harder to kill unimatix crafts is welcome to challenge them in hive space elite.
I can assure everybody that I cant kill them as fast there as I can in a Borg RA so any help is greatly appreciated friends.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
If the bickering continues i have no doubt this topic will be closed as well so let cooler heads prevail.
I feel that a damage cap is bad design because it stops player investment (both time and money) due to emotional events.
Adding something like a stacking resistance to whichever damage type received seems a more appropriate way to address the power creep.
It's NOT EMOTIONAL. When you reach the cap after spending whatever resources to do it, there is NO LOGICAL REASON TO SPEND MORE. In fact spending more AFTER reaching that cap is the emotional response.
And diminishing returns while it can work, it does not allow for the fine tuning of the power levels in the game that no stacking bonuses does. Also even with PUBLISHED percentages, the actual amount becomes confusing for all but the most hard core of number crunchers. Much less given Cryptic's record of NOT saying what the amount will be. Also note that the DPSers are actually better number crunchers than the ACTUAL devs of this game. While this will bring the highs down...you can be sure that whatever the devs decided the numbers will be won't have the effect they want when the players are better at the numbers game than you are with this method. The no stacking of bonuses method provides for a better balancing mechanic for the devs and a less confusing experience for the players. Hence why this is the preferred method now.
But more important than the lack of a logical reason to continue if a damage cap is established is that without a possibility of progress the game stops being fun which is a significant emotional event. :P
So it is actually both and i might argue that the emotional event (no more fun) is the most dangerous consequence of adding a damage cap.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
A damage cap is definitely not the way to go, primarily due to the environment the game has nurtured for the last decade (not saying this is a bad thing, just that it is a thing). Unfortunately, the best way to go would be the hardest and least feasible: a better AI that could provide a challenge without resorting to over-inflated HP or the like to compensate.
stupid question...
does the game do its own math for DPS per ship/toon at any time?
meaning, when and of you go into TFOs, (as an example) does the game scan the ship/toon and determine say AVG DPS, or maybe MAX DPS given the data it sees?
Hy mate the are no stupid questions.
When they introduced the RTFO system some time ago we were told that some sort of match making system has been implemented that would ensure that peeps of more equal level of progression would be matched.
Unfortunately the pool of players to choose from seems to be so very small it has no chance of working. One can be lucky to get 4 other players at a reasonable waiting time at all.
It seems unavoidable that we run into mismatched team mates. I don’t mind that as I neither care if another one shoots away targets faster than I do (we are a team and play for the same reward) or if I run into someone doing it all wrong as he is still in the learning process (as I have been for years).
All of that keeps the static maps we play over and over again fresh and unexpected. Personaly I view players of different standing in a team as a big upside, not a downside. Exception are of course peeps that AFK or troll on purpose.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I think the issue, keepcalmchiveon, is the extreme range in possible dps.
To use arbitrary dps numbers, a 10k player with a 100k player would average out to 50k enemies. This is still really easy for the 100k player, but is now much more harder for the 10k player.
The extreme range is based on skill, gear, build, setup, piloting and team.
There is no way to even out through performance-socialism a 10k user with a 200k dps user. Currently people are doing 300-400k dps, so the gap is even larger.
People need something to strive for. Something to work at. And DPS is one of those things. It rewards your effort, creativity, knowledge and skill into palpable results.
I'm not sure about the real life age of the people who cry about powercreep and epeen, but I refrain from arguing with people who are not eligible to vote legally in their country (yet).
Crying about dps today is demanding that enemies die regardless of how bad you play tomorrow.
I'm currently in the 100-275k dps area. Which varies hugely on multiple parameters. Including map. ISE is more dps-friendly for stand-up dps instead of burst-and-flight, like ISA used to be be. Also in ISE, people strive to really do the objectives in order to be able to obtain rewards and get a legitimate DPS result.
There is plenty of Normal content where you casually have fun (and so do I) or do dailies.
The disparity in stats is influenced by the Endeavor points also.
This is the intended design, there is a progress/performance curve and if you don't understand why that is mandatory, it is pointless to argue from that point on. The content can be quite challenging for new players, even on normal. Elite is darn challenging for most of the people. You simply shoot at those targets and they don't flinch.
One thing that rises from this is that perhaps adding some special rewards only for Elite content would offer incentive for improvement. Perhaps some special sets, items or visuals, yet something do be worth the hassle.
Comments
Now maybe some of this is because the devs nerfed content, but there’s no denying that players are also capable of achieving much higher dps now, too, than they used to be able to.
(Why the heck are the italics not working??)
Yeah, in the Endeavor the web nodes count as well as the ships, so you get sixty before it's half over with.
Issue is god damage.
Folks can erase the toughest of ships in no time.
For the good of the game, it should be limited, but folks no like that.
They just get less sober.
well having disminishing returns on stats that boost damage would be a good start in getting the top level of firepower lower and keeping it lower, since it would solve many issues by itself. One of the issues with nerfs is that it should hit of the top end of DPS without harming the low end, while at same time not seeming like your punishing people for "being too good at the game".
Personally one the majors things we'd need is a rework in NPC AI, at the moment there's really nothing there if you don't kill them in seconds just damage sponges that take ages to take down. Now if there was challenge at high end that wasn't the mobs having tons of HP and hitting hard(or having random 1 shot mechanics) to that only true challenge is killing them before they kill you I certainly wouldn't mind fights that lasted longer. Maybe even have tier AI system where the mobs used more mechanics (and used them more intelligently) at higher difficulty levels.
Bad idea, for YOUR EMOTIONAL STATE, not for the game.
But I won't get into this.
Far too many bias here abou it.
Seems people can't think, just feel.
Hence the state of the planet.
They just get less sober.
Wow! How a single post can ensure that I’ll pass on the next 100 posts from you.
Too bad as detailed hard cap to DPS reasoning generally makes for one of the most fun to read stuff in forums.
Perhaps you give it a little try anyway? I’ll promise I read it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I have, with logic and proof, said why it was necessary, and how it could be implemented.
Go look it up.
The only responce I KEPT getting: we no likee, no want.
Even the Moderator had it closed, for the SAME reasons.
Such a shame.
They just get less sober.
I feel that a damage cap is bad design because it stops player investment (both time and money) due to emotional events.
Adding something like a stacking resistance to whichever damage type received seems a more appropriate way to address the power creep.
And you are correct, "do to emotional events", that is the whole of the issue right there...
They just get less sober.
Pretty much yea.
You know the only problem we look at here is that cryptic rushed out an event with maps only available on normal difficulty where of course the implications of the massive progression curve we have in this 10 years old game surface. Every player, no matter how strong or weak he is gets funnelled through the same setting and meets.
With the re-introduction of the elite mode of infected space and kithomer vortex cryptic ultimately validated their power creep by directly designing contend for ~110k DPS + players. It is basically justyfied now, game sided, by the devs that players can get as powerful as they can.
It’s a bit unlucky for this event without any alternatives for high end peeps but whoever gets nostalgic about harder to kill unimatix crafts is welcome to challenge them in hive space elite.
I can assure everybody that I cant kill them as fast there as I can in a Borg RA so any help is greatly appreciated friends.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
But more important than the lack of a logical reason to continue if a damage cap is established is that without a possibility of progress the game stops being fun which is a significant emotional event. :P
So it is actually both and i might argue that the emotional event (no more fun) is the most dangerous consequence of adding a damage cap.
Hy mate the are no stupid questions.
When they introduced the RTFO system some time ago we were told that some sort of match making system has been implemented that would ensure that peeps of more equal level of progression would be matched.
Unfortunately the pool of players to choose from seems to be so very small it has no chance of working. One can be lucky to get 4 other players at a reasonable waiting time at all.
It seems unavoidable that we run into mismatched team mates. I don’t mind that as I neither care if another one shoots away targets faster than I do (we are a team and play for the same reward) or if I run into someone doing it all wrong as he is still in the learning process (as I have been for years).
All of that keeps the static maps we play over and over again fresh and unexpected. Personaly I view players of different standing in a team as a big upside, not a downside. Exception are of course peeps that AFK or troll on purpose.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The game has evolved. There is ISE (infected the conduit: Elite) if you want a challenge. Those truly need a competent space team to deliver results.
Wow! Lookit the size of that E-Peen!
To use arbitrary dps numbers, a 10k player with a 100k player would average out to 50k enemies. This is still really easy for the 100k player, but is now much more harder for the 10k player.
There is no way to even out through performance-socialism a 10k user with a 200k dps user. Currently people are doing 300-400k dps, so the gap is even larger.
People need something to strive for. Something to work at. And DPS is one of those things. It rewards your effort, creativity, knowledge and skill into palpable results.
I'm not sure about the real life age of the people who cry about powercreep and epeen, but I refrain from arguing with people who are not eligible to vote legally in their country (yet).
Crying about dps today is demanding that enemies die regardless of how bad you play tomorrow.
I'm currently in the 100-275k dps area. Which varies hugely on multiple parameters. Including map. ISE is more dps-friendly for stand-up dps instead of burst-and-flight, like ISA used to be be. Also in ISE, people strive to really do the objectives in order to be able to obtain rewards and get a legitimate DPS result.
There is plenty of Normal content where you casually have fun (and so do I) or do dailies.
The disparity in stats is influenced by the Endeavor points also.
This is the intended design, there is a progress/performance curve and if you don't understand why that is mandatory, it is pointless to argue from that point on. The content can be quite challenging for new players, even on normal. Elite is darn challenging for most of the people. You simply shoot at those targets and they don't flinch.
One thing that rises from this is that perhaps adding some special rewards only for Elite content would offer incentive for improvement. Perhaps some special sets, items or visuals, yet something do be worth the hassle.