Maybe give a player a private breakdown of their stats both as numbers (damage, healing, pets, abilities) and overall % within the group but no real need to show what others got.
Without a blow by blow context applied to the figures they're just a glorified epeen flexing contest and encourage the less savoury members of the dps chasing fraternity to drop a difficulty level more than they currently do.
Maybe give a player a private breakdown of their stats both as numbers (damage, healing, pets, abilities) and overall % within the group but no real need to show what others got.
Without a blow by blow context applied to the figures they're just a glorified epeen flexing contest and encourage the less savoury members of the dps chasing fraternity to drop a difficulty level more than they currently do.
Yup, this is kind of what I was trying to get at with my suggestion and is what I would support.
I (kind of) do want to know how I stack up to others (and for the record, a simple 1st/2nd/3rd doesn't help here), but I don't want them to be able to look at the numbers and know -that- one was mine and troll me for it if it wasn't up to their standards.
Wait..I'm still stuck on "Science Healing"...I thought Sci was for AOE mass DPS Wizardry only?? I have never seen a placement list on any TFO even the couple mentioned in this thread. Maybe I don't stick around post mission long enough?
The only way I ever gauge how "well" I have done in a mission is when I see the extra reward in the form of a Common, Green, Blue or Purple gear item along with or instead of an Endeavor award of same colors, although those are usually Green, Blue or Purple.
Even then no matter what I am still surprised sometimes one way or the other that either I even placed (when I see Lockbox Science AOE skills deployed I know I won't place at all).
I can actually tell in the first "act" if the team is got "professional" DPSers or if the team is relatively matched and there is even a reason to try and pay attention. Example, when I hit one of the Borg maps and either the single Tact Cube or the 3 regular cubes die before I can even Full Impulse to them...then I know I can simply play 3-5 fiddle in damage or effort.
Frankly they are better served matching team up by some kind of gear score at this point.
Wait..I'm still stuck on "Science Healing"...I thought Sci was for AOE mass DPS Wizardry only?? I have never seen a placement list on any TFO even the couple mentioned in this thread. Maybe I don't stick around post mission long enough?
The only way I ever gauge how "well" I have done in a mission is when I see the extra reward in the form of a Common, Green, Blue or Purple gear item along with or instead of an Endeavor award of same colors, although those are usually Green, Blue or Purple.
Even then no matter what I am still surprised sometimes one way or the other that either I even placed (when I see Lockbox Science AOE skills deployed I know I won't place at all).
I can actually tell in the first "act" if the team is got "professional" DPSers or if the team is relatively matched and there is even a reason to try and pay attention. Example, when I hit one of the Borg maps and either the single Tact Cube or the 3 regular cubes die before I can even Full Impulse to them...then I know I can simply play 3-5 fiddle in damage or effort.
Frankly they are better served matching team up by some kind of gear score at this point.
Gear score systems are pretty awful, I remember when they started in wow and you'd have muppets queueing up wearing any old junk as long as they got over the entry number, this carried over to the LFG tool when those same ones queued as healer or tank then refused to do the job they signed on as. Or you had to swap out decent trinkets because the gearscore addon flagged them as bad because it only really worked off stats and not procs.
Why I personally would like the idea, it would make much sense. All it would do is point out the leeching crowd on the advanced queues. Its a big crowd.
.
The problem is that the leechers would be the most vocal about other's DPS if something like this was added, unless it literally included a system that prevented you from doing queues in your DPS didn't add up to a certain metric and you can imagine how well that would go over.
Now while technically WoW doesn't have built in DPS meter, in practice has had one via addons since vanilla and it hasn't stopped leecher 1 bit in fact only thing it's done in pugs is allow those leechers to become bullies by kicking people who don't pick up the slack they caused.
Quite frankly I don't see why this would be any different for STO.
Crystalline or Romulan Minefield currently only broadcast the placement results to the person who achieved the placement. It just doesn't include the current Damage &/or Healing which it knows to derive the Placement in the first place.
If you haven't tried, queue in normal mode and see if you get 1st, 2nd, or 3rd; only you see results, nobody else! So by adding Damage & Healing values, it helps you assess how you supported the team. Still whenever I place, the only thing I say is Thank You!
It doesn't include INFO about what others did, or how a player choose to BUFF team or DEBUFF enemy, so nobody's contribution should be forsaken. So adding Placements, people should simply express Thank You! It also be nice to gain a little extra Salvage or Gear for those who do.
----
“I could not deprive you of the revelation of all that you could accomplish together, of a friendship that will define you both in ways you cannot yet realize.” - Star Trek, 2009
----
But in conclusion, I say this was just an idea, and I still think it's a good one. I don't require to know all results, simply just how often I place, as that's a key indicator to use.
Maybe give a player a private breakdown of their stats both as numbers (damage, healing, pets, abilities) and overall % within the group but no real need to show what others got.
Without a blow by blow context applied to the figures they're just a glorified epeen flexing contest and encourage the less savoury members of the dps chasing fraternity to drop a difficulty level more than they currently do.
And yes, this is exactly how it currently works! It does not identify to everyone who placed, or who didn't, and if you get 2nd you don't even know who placed first. I very much like this because its private, yet gives enough of an indicator to know when a change may be required.
I like the idea.
And I'd like to see who completed objectives, or at least how I did.
I'd be happy seeing my placement and scores relative to the team, even if the other Captain's names are obscured.
For example:
1. TRIBBLE 5 million damage
2. TRIBBLE 3.6 million damage
3. TRIBBLE 2.1 million damage
4. < my captain > 1.5 million damage
5. TRIBBLE 0.9 million damage
Or, if objectives were displayed, something similar:
1. < my captain > 22 assault teams transferred to terok nor
2. TRIBBLE 13 assault teams transferred to terok nor
3. TRIBBLE 7 assault teams transferred to terok nor
4. TRIBBLE 5 assault teams transferred to terok nor
5. TRIBBLE 0 assault teams transferred to terok nor
Or, perhaps the leader wouldn't mind having their name displayed.
I can imagine scenarios where I'd want to know how that person did so well (in objectives, not for build advice and damage).
Aside from places a detailed listing of the individual performance of the player’s in a team would be super great for the entire health of teamed PvE in Star Trek Online as a whole.
I would even carry the idea of the OP a step further by also making the earned rewards heavily dependent on the place a team member achieves. Something like first place gets 5 times the rewards of last place.
In other games stuff like DPS, # of kills, team assists as in heals & de-buffs and last but not least the direct contribution towards the conclusion of mission objectives translate to the individual outcome.
Such an approach encourages a productive attitude for everybody. Less AFK, less DPS antagonism, general strive to get better, focus on missions, team thinking, sporty aspects to reach goals as fast as possible, healthy competition between players.
Just imagine Gravity Kills where the transport of every single hawking particle hands out Dil/marks only for he who did it while those players who don’t contribute conclude the map empty handed. I'd love it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Showing some statistics including dps, damaged/killed enemies, objectives interacted with, deaths/respawns, amount of heal provided and other relevant data is really, really good. And should be done in a honest, straightforward manner.
If you consider public results as "an invite to toxicity", the real problems are here below:
- You feel uncomfortable with the idea of having others visibly perform better than you.
- You like being carried and trolling others without being called out on it
- You don't care about the needs of others. Maybe everyone from that group besides you wants to see the results of the entire team, broken down.
These just came from the top of my head and I'm positive there's more, if I put my mind to it.
This, if anything, will prove an incentive for everyone to perform better, for bragging rights.
This is a great idea and will be quite some work for the development team, especially to add it to each TFO. If this gets implemented and works right, they deserve a round of applause after the patch.
Why I personally would like the idea, it would make much sense. All it would do is point out the leeching crowd on the advanced queues. Its a big crowd.
.
The problem is that the leechers would be the most vocal about other's DPS if something like this was added, unless it literally included a system that prevented you from doing queues in your DPS didn't add up to a certain metric and you can imagine how well that would go over.
Now while technically WoW doesn't have built in DPS meter, in practice has had one via addons since vanilla and it hasn't stopped leecher 1 bit in fact only thing it's done in pugs is allow those leechers to become bullies by kicking people who don't pick up the slack they caused.
Quite frankly I don't see why this would be any different for STO.
Crystalline or Romulan Minefield currently only broadcast the placement results to the person who achieved the placement. It just doesn't include the current Damage &/or Healing which it knows to derive the Placement in the first place so it could easily be added.
So nobody realizes your placement results except you! That is how both Gear TFOs which are Romulan Minefield or Crystalline Catastrophe in any difficulty queue currently works. If you haven't tried, try those queues in normal mode and see if you get 1st, 2nd, or 3rd; only you see results, nobody else! So by simply adding your Damage & Healing values, it only helps you assess how you did with that team, as it already knows the results of your Damage or Healing to derive the Placement. Whenever I place the only thing I say is Thank You! Because others may have greatly helped BUFF me or DEBUFF several enemy in the process!
I can't speak for anyone else, but knowing my placement, without knowing how it scales compared to everyone else in the team, is useless knowledge to me. Ok, so maybe I get 2nd place... but am I just barely off from 1st, or was I light years away? Same goes for comparing downward to the other positions. And if I didn't do well enough for even 3rd? Completely useless info as I don't know how far off I was.
The DPS disparity in this game is way too high at this point for simple placements like this. Which is why something like this:
I like the idea.
And I'd like to see who completed objectives, or at least how I did.
I'd be happy seeing my placement and scores relative to the team, even if the other Captain's names are obscured.
For example:
1. TRIBBLE 5 million damage
2. TRIBBLE 3.6 million damage
3. TRIBBLE 2.1 million damage
4. < my captain > 1.5 million damage
5. TRIBBLE 0.9 million damage
Or, if objectives were displayed, something similar:
1. < my captain > 22 assault teams transferred to terok nor
2. TRIBBLE 13 assault teams transferred to terok nor
3. TRIBBLE 7 assault teams transferred to terok nor
4. TRIBBLE 5 assault teams transferred to terok nor
5. TRIBBLE 0 assault teams transferred to terok nor
Or, perhaps the leader wouldn't mind having their name displayed.
I can imagine scenarios where I'd want to know how that person did so well (in objectives, not for build advice and damage).
Where the other Captain's names are obscured, would be more beneficial.
Aside from places a detailed listing of the individual performance of the player’s in a team would be super great for the entire health of teamed PvE in Star Trek Online as a whole.
I would even carry the idea of the OP a step further by also making the earned rewards heavily dependent on the place a team member achieves. Something like first place gets 5 times the rewards of last place.
In other games stuff like DPS, # of kills, team assists as in heals & de-buffs and last but not least the direct contribution towards the conclusion of mission objectives translate to the individual outcome.
Such an approach encourages a productive attitude for everybody. Less AFK, less DPS antagonism, general strive to get better, focus on missions, team thinking, sporty aspects to reach goals as fast as possible, healthy competition between players.
Just imagine Gravity Kills where the transport of every single hawking particle hands out Dil/marks only for he who did it while those players who don’t contribute conclude the map empty handed. I'd love it.
Absolutely not. As I mention above in this post, the dps disparity is way too high in this game as of now. Having a build that isn't "absolutely best" at dps is going to almost always guarantee never getting a high placement. This would be very off putting for folks that play in completely legitimate ways, that still contribute and have fun with their builds, but aren't spec'd for dps.
all this will do is make sure the map is empty most of the time. except the people that have high DPS builds. everyday players will eventually refuse to return.
you post mentions how you think it will encourage team playing. how? ive been in TFOs and RAs now where a tac ship flys at the speed of light, hits a borg cube or other name your enemy ship and within 3 seconds, its gone. i think in those cases, one other person got to the same place on the map and got like a one shot beam in before it went boom. so already you have a disparity in scoring...get this...as a team.
Honestly, higher rewards and the like for higher dps belongs in competitive play, and I've never felt as though that is what the bulk of this game was about.
We don't need something to encourage toxic behavior and attacks on "underperforming" players.
Honestly I'm reminded of something that happened to me one time years ago in Halo CE. My team was getting spawn camped by the other team in a CTF match, complete with tanks, and some idiot on the other team decided to add insult to injury accusing us of being terrible players.
I managed to shoot back with something about the fact that its easy to insult the other team's skills when said other team can't even blink without dying from the constant bombardment.
A public scoreboard will do nothing but encourage people to single out other players and harass them for "not measuring up", even if the circumstances prevented them from doing anything anyways. May have a good build, but as the example above given by west about being spawn camped and basically assaulted for having a terrible build when the truth is that they have a good build but no ability to use it due to the opposing team alpha striking...
It just turns into a tool for elitism, discrimination, and shaming. Not a tool to help people improve. All it will do is stroke egos.
It is super fun to see how my former post where I mentioned DPS (once) amongst lots of other things to consider for placements gets completely reduced to only DPS. Hate and fear does its thing no matter what.
Just to be clear, its not the fear of DPS at work here. It’s the fear of performing bad in general and of course we cannot have a game where peeps are rewarded for performance in any way in STO. Too few would be able to progress a tiny bit at all when it would come down to that. The fact that everybody can progress and get better in time is completely out of the question of course.
Just imagine one only get marks if one transported hawking particles in Gravity… the mere thought of it all. No DPS, still this this fear. You folks are good fun and I thank you for it. Muahaha.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Would standing in a Plasma fire, be considered toxic behavior?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It is super fun to see how my former post where I mentioned DPS (once) amongst lots of other things to consider for placements gets completely reduced to only DPS. Hate and fear does its thing no matter what.
Just to be clear, its not the fear of DPS at work here. It’s the fear of performing bad in general and of course we cannot have a game where peeps are rewarded for performance in any way in STO. Too few would be able to progress a tiny bit at all when it would come down to that. The fact that everybody can progress and get better in time is completely out of the question of course.
Just imagine one only get marks if one transported hawking particles in Gravity… the mere thought of it all. No DPS, still this this fear. You folks are good fun and I thank you for it. Muahaha.
but you focused on DPS a lot compared to other aspects. so i ask you then, define what parameters you would have in place to define 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?
That was from my post and got the cores covered I think:
In other games stuff like DPS, # of kills, team assists as in heals & de-buffs and last but not least the direct contribution towards the conclusion of mission objectives translate to the individual outcome.
Such an approach encourages a productive attitude for everybody. Less AFK, less DPS antagonism, general strive to get better, focus on missions, team thinking, sporty aspects to reach goals as fast as possible, healthy competition between players.
Just imagine Gravity Kills where the transport of every single hawking particle hands out Dil/marks only for he who did it while those players who don’t contribute conclude the map empty handed. I'd love it.
In STO we have lots of different maps with different tasks and subjects to become good at. Every map would be needed to be closely looked at to decide for it individually.
But in general we have two kinds of maps:
1) On pew pew centric maps like Borg Space I’d put aggro management as in attack ins & heals, used means of damage resistance reduction, teamwide buffs and perhaps some crowd control at the top of placements. All of these support activities are massively made use of if we set DPS records as a team for single individuals of it. Sadly none of it gets rewarded by the game itself EVER so most casuals even don’t know they exists.
2) On task centric maps id put the placement heavily on the respective contribution a team member made. How many rifts closed? how many troops transported? how many particles carried? how many mission relevant targes destroyed? etc. Especially that one should be easily implemented.
Both of it benefits your questioned teamplay at its core. The first one encurages pure team interaction when you see that multiple player’s roles become meaningful to reach a common goal all of sudden while the latter is more based on healthy competition but should still lead to faster results for the team as a whole. More troops will be transported in sum if everbyody gives his best instead of doing nothing at all.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I like it when they tell me I did good in the missions that currently do. So I think I would like the idea to be added to other missions.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It is super fun to see how my former post where I mentioned DPS (once) amongst lots of other things to consider for placements gets completely reduced to only DPS. Hate and fear does its thing no matter what.
Just to be clear, its not the fear of DPS at work here. It’s the fear of performing bad in general and of course we cannot have a game where peeps are rewarded for performance in any way in STO. Too few would be able to progress a tiny bit at all when it would come down to that. The fact that everybody can progress and get better in time is completely out of the question of course.
Just imagine one only get marks if one transported hawking particles in Gravity… the mere thought of it all. No DPS, still this this fear. You folks are good fun and I thank you for it. Muahaha.
but you focused on DPS a lot compared to other aspects. so i ask you then, define what parameters you would have in place to define 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?
That was from my post and got the cores covered I think:
In other games stuff like DPS, # of kills, team assists as in heals & de-buffs and last but not least the direct contribution towards the conclusion of mission objectives translate to the individual outcome.
Such an approach encourages a productive attitude for everybody. Less AFK, less DPS antagonism, general strive to get better, focus on missions, team thinking, sporty aspects to reach goals as fast as possible, healthy competition between players.
Just imagine Gravity Kills where the transport of every single hawking particle hands out Dil/marks only for he who did it while those players who don’t contribute conclude the map empty handed. I'd love it.
In STO we have lots of different maps with different tasks and subjects to become good at. Every map would be needed to be closely looked at to decide for it individually.
But in general we have two kinds of maps:
1) On pew pew centric maps like Borg Space I’d put aggro management as in attack ins & heals, used means of damage resistance reduction, teamwide buffs and perhaps some crowd control at the top of placements. All of these support activities are massively made use of if we set DPS records as a team for single individuals of it. Sadly none of it gets rewarded by the game itself EVER so most casuals even don’t know they exists.
2) On task centric maps id put the placement heavily on the respective contribution a team member made. How many rifts closed? how many troops transported? how many particles carried? how many mission relevant targes destroyed? etc. Especially that one should be easily implemented.
Both of it benefits your questioned teamplay at its core. The first one encurages pure team interaction when you see that multiple player’s roles become meaningful to reach a common goal all of sudden while the latter is more based on healthy competition but should still lead to faster results for the team as a whole. More troops will be transported in sum if everbyody gives his best instead of doing nothing at all.
Except, again, dps disparity in this game is too high at the moment. It's too easy for someone with a decent build to never get a hit in because others kill everything too fast.
It is super fun to see how my former post where I mentioned DPS (once) amongst lots of other things to consider for placements gets completely reduced to only DPS. Hate and fear does its thing no matter what.
Just to be clear, its not the fear of DPS at work here. It’s the fear of performing bad in general and of course we cannot have a game where peeps are rewarded for performance in any way in STO. Too few would be able to progress a tiny bit at all when it would come down to that. The fact that everybody can progress and get better in time is completely out of the question of course.
Just imagine one only get marks if one transported hawking particles in Gravity… the mere thought of it all. No DPS, still this this fear. You folks are good fun and I thank you for it. Muahaha.
but you focused on DPS a lot compared to other aspects. so i ask you then, define what parameters you would have in place to define 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?
That was from my post and got the cores covered I think:
In other games stuff like DPS, # of kills, team assists as in heals & de-buffs and last but not least the direct contribution towards the conclusion of mission objectives translate to the individual outcome.
Such an approach encourages a productive attitude for everybody. Less AFK, less DPS antagonism, general strive to get better, focus on missions, team thinking, sporty aspects to reach goals as fast as possible, healthy competition between players.
Just imagine Gravity Kills where the transport of every single hawking particle hands out Dil/marks only for he who did it while those players who don’t contribute conclude the map empty handed. I'd love it.
In STO we have lots of different maps with different tasks and subjects to become good at. Every map would be needed to be closely looked at to decide for it individually.
But in general we have two kinds of maps:
1) On pew pew centric maps like Borg Space I’d put aggro management as in attack ins & heals, used means of damage resistance reduction, teamwide buffs and perhaps some crowd control at the top of placements. All of these support activities are massively made use of if we set DPS records as a team for single individuals of it. Sadly none of it gets rewarded by the game itself EVER so most casuals even don’t know they exists.
2) On task centric maps id put the placement heavily on the respective contribution a team member made. How many rifts closed? how many troops transported? how many particles carried? how many mission relevant targes destroyed? etc. Especially that one should be easily implemented.
Both of it benefits your questioned teamplay at its core. The first one encurages pure team interaction when you see that multiple player’s roles become meaningful to reach a common goal all of sudden while the latter is more based on healthy competition but should still lead to faster results for the team as a whole. More troops will be transported in sum if everbyody gives his best instead of doing nothing at all.
well put. but as mentioned in some threads, many people in borg RAs right now dismantle the map in under 5 mins. some faster than that. so how would you measure a players points if he/she cant even get to a point to help? (i say this cause i was in one where the main pickle ship was destroyed in less than a minute. it was so fast that my torp never made contact...it was a floater)
i enjoy the one map where you have to tow ships to a way point. that one is fun as all get out to me. maybe because its more then just pew pew, but also since its different. so along you lines, people would get applicable points for towing in ships as would someone killing stuff while its completed? or would everyone have to tow at least one or two ships to even qualify?
im all for aspects to point towards team play, but not everyone else is. hell, some maps are still new to me. i even read up on sto wiki to see what i have to do, and then sometimes you dont really get it till you try.
i like the direction, but i think there are more variables about that would or could hinder other aspects.
if i recall, back in the day they had maps that did this...dmg, vs healing, vs exotic...i think. and it would pop up with results. but i can be certain if this was just something i saw once or if it even did exist. been a time.
You are right with what you say and I do not have the answers.
Power creep progressed far in STO. Especially on Normal difficulty maps high end players like me break the game and even issue AFK penalties for just hitting spacebar.
It would make no sense for placements here so they probably should be limited to higher difficulties as well as more complex PvE maps.
As for the learning part, you will get there as I once did. So will all the others if they happen to want to.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I like it when they tell me I did good in the missions that currently do. So I think I would like the idea to be added to other missions.
Yea, I certainly agree.
I don't need to see others INFO, simply cause if your looking, you'll see a pattern. People who still want details can still obtain them, this was more about celebrating small victories, & a bonus reward a bit more often.
A public scoreboard will do nothing but encourage people to single out other players and harass them for "not measuring up", even if the circumstances prevented them from doing anything anyways. May have a good build, but as the example above given by west about being spawn camped and basically assaulted for having a terrible build when the truth is that they have a good build but no ability to use it due to the opposing team alpha striking...
In my personal experience, I've found scoreboards to be useful as a tool to evaluate my own performance. why not just parse? parsing is harder than looking at an in-game scoreboard.
Seriously I have dozens of screencaps of in-game scoreboards. It's quite rare for these to include chat log entries from jerks.
Comments
Without a blow by blow context applied to the figures they're just a glorified epeen flexing contest and encourage the less savoury members of the dps chasing fraternity to drop a difficulty level more than they currently do.
Yup, this is kind of what I was trying to get at with my suggestion and is what I would support.
I (kind of) do want to know how I stack up to others (and for the record, a simple 1st/2nd/3rd doesn't help here), but I don't want them to be able to look at the numbers and know -that- one was mine and troll me for it if it wasn't up to their standards.
The only way I ever gauge how "well" I have done in a mission is when I see the extra reward in the form of a Common, Green, Blue or Purple gear item along with or instead of an Endeavor award of same colors, although those are usually Green, Blue or Purple.
Even then no matter what I am still surprised sometimes one way or the other that either I even placed (when I see Lockbox Science AOE skills deployed I know I won't place at all).
I can actually tell in the first "act" if the team is got "professional" DPSers or if the team is relatively matched and there is even a reason to try and pay attention. Example, when I hit one of the Borg maps and either the single Tact Cube or the 3 regular cubes die before I can even Full Impulse to them...then I know I can simply play 3-5 fiddle in damage or effort.
Frankly they are better served matching team up by some kind of gear score at this point.
The only way I ever gauge how "well" I have done in a mission is when I see the extra reward in the form of a Common, Green, Blue or Purple gear item along with or instead of an Endeavor award of same colors, although those are usually Green, Blue or Purple.
Even then no matter what I am still surprised sometimes one way or the other that either I even placed (when I see Lockbox Science AOE skills deployed I know I won't place at all).
I can actually tell in the first "act" if the team is got "professional" DPSers or if the team is relatively matched and there is even a reason to try and pay attention. Example, when I hit one of the Borg maps and either the single Tact Cube or the 3 regular cubes die before I can even Full Impulse to them...then I know I can simply play 3-5 fiddle in damage or effort.
Frankly they are better served matching team up by some kind of gear score at this point.
Crystalline or Romulan Minefield currently only broadcast the placement results to the person who achieved the placement. It just doesn't include the current Damage &/or Healing which it knows to derive the Placement in the first place.
If you haven't tried, queue in normal mode and see if you get 1st, 2nd, or 3rd; only you see results, nobody else! So by adding Damage & Healing values, it helps you assess how you supported the team. Still whenever I place, the only thing I say is Thank You!
It doesn't include INFO about what others did, or how a player choose to BUFF team or DEBUFF enemy, so nobody's contribution should be forsaken. So adding Placements, people should simply express Thank You! It also be nice to gain a little extra Salvage or Gear for those who do.
----
“I could not deprive you of the revelation of all that you could accomplish together, of a friendship that will define you both in ways you cannot yet realize.” - Star Trek, 2009
----
But in conclusion, I say this was just an idea, and I still think it's a good one. I don't require to know all results, simply just how often I place, as that's a key indicator to use.
And yes, this is exactly how it currently works! It does not identify to everyone who placed, or who didn't, and if you get 2nd you don't even know who placed first. I very much like this because its private, yet gives enough of an indicator to know when a change may be required.
And I'd like to see who completed objectives, or at least how I did.
I'd be happy seeing my placement and scores relative to the team, even if the other Captain's names are obscured.
For example:
1. TRIBBLE 5 million damage
2. TRIBBLE 3.6 million damage
3. TRIBBLE 2.1 million damage
4. < my captain > 1.5 million damage
5. TRIBBLE 0.9 million damage
Or, if objectives were displayed, something similar:
1. < my captain > 22 assault teams transferred to terok nor
2. TRIBBLE 13 assault teams transferred to terok nor
3. TRIBBLE 7 assault teams transferred to terok nor
4. TRIBBLE 5 assault teams transferred to terok nor
5. TRIBBLE 0 assault teams transferred to terok nor
Or, perhaps the leader wouldn't mind having their name displayed.
I can imagine scenarios where I'd want to know how that person did so well (in objectives, not for build advice and damage).
I would even carry the idea of the OP a step further by also making the earned rewards heavily dependent on the place a team member achieves. Something like first place gets 5 times the rewards of last place.
In other games stuff like DPS, # of kills, team assists as in heals & de-buffs and last but not least the direct contribution towards the conclusion of mission objectives translate to the individual outcome.
Such an approach encourages a productive attitude for everybody. Less AFK, less DPS antagonism, general strive to get better, focus on missions, team thinking, sporty aspects to reach goals as fast as possible, healthy competition between players.
Just imagine Gravity Kills where the transport of every single hawking particle hands out Dil/marks only for he who did it while those players who don’t contribute conclude the map empty handed. I'd love it.
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Showing some statistics including dps, damaged/killed enemies, objectives interacted with, deaths/respawns, amount of heal provided and other relevant data is really, really good. And should be done in a honest, straightforward manner.
If you consider public results as "an invite to toxicity", the real problems are here below:
- You feel uncomfortable with the idea of having others visibly perform better than you.
- You like being carried and trolling others without being called out on it
- You don't care about the needs of others. Maybe everyone from that group besides you wants to see the results of the entire team, broken down.
These just came from the top of my head and I'm positive there's more, if I put my mind to it.
This, if anything, will prove an incentive for everyone to perform better, for bragging rights.
This is a great idea and will be quite some work for the development team, especially to add it to each TFO. If this gets implemented and works right, they deserve a round of applause after the patch.
My character Tsin'xing
I can't speak for anyone else, but knowing my placement, without knowing how it scales compared to everyone else in the team, is useless knowledge to me. Ok, so maybe I get 2nd place... but am I just barely off from 1st, or was I light years away? Same goes for comparing downward to the other positions. And if I didn't do well enough for even 3rd? Completely useless info as I don't know how far off I was.
The DPS disparity in this game is way too high at this point for simple placements like this. Which is why something like this:
Where the other Captain's names are obscured, would be more beneficial.
Absolutely not. As I mention above in this post, the dps disparity is way too high in this game as of now. Having a build that isn't "absolutely best" at dps is going to almost always guarantee never getting a high placement. This would be very off putting for folks that play in completely legitimate ways, that still contribute and have fun with their builds, but aren't spec'd for dps.
Also, this:
Honestly, higher rewards and the like for higher dps belongs in competitive play, and I've never felt as though that is what the bulk of this game was about.
Honestly I'm reminded of something that happened to me one time years ago in Halo CE. My team was getting spawn camped by the other team in a CTF match, complete with tanks, and some idiot on the other team decided to add insult to injury accusing us of being terrible players.
I managed to shoot back with something about the fact that its easy to insult the other team's skills when said other team can't even blink without dying from the constant bombardment.
A public scoreboard will do nothing but encourage people to single out other players and harass them for "not measuring up", even if the circumstances prevented them from doing anything anyways. May have a good build, but as the example above given by west about being spawn camped and basically assaulted for having a terrible build when the truth is that they have a good build but no ability to use it due to the opposing team alpha striking...
It just turns into a tool for elitism, discrimination, and shaming. Not a tool to help people improve. All it will do is stroke egos.
Just to be clear, its not the fear of DPS at work here. It’s the fear of performing bad in general and of course we cannot have a game where peeps are rewarded for performance in any way in STO. Too few would be able to progress a tiny bit at all when it would come down to that. The fact that everybody can progress and get better in time is completely out of the question of course.
Just imagine one only get marks if one transported hawking particles in Gravity… the mere thought of it all. No DPS, still this this fear. You folks are good fun and I thank you for it. Muahaha.
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That was from my post and got the cores covered I think:
In STO we have lots of different maps with different tasks and subjects to become good at. Every map would be needed to be closely looked at to decide for it individually.
But in general we have two kinds of maps:
1) On pew pew centric maps like Borg Space I’d put aggro management as in attack ins & heals, used means of damage resistance reduction, teamwide buffs and perhaps some crowd control at the top of placements. All of these support activities are massively made use of if we set DPS records as a team for single individuals of it. Sadly none of it gets rewarded by the game itself EVER so most casuals even don’t know they exists.
2) On task centric maps id put the placement heavily on the respective contribution a team member made. How many rifts closed? how many troops transported? how many particles carried? how many mission relevant targes destroyed? etc. Especially that one should be easily implemented.
Both of it benefits your questioned teamplay at its core. The first one encurages pure team interaction when you see that multiple player’s roles become meaningful to reach a common goal all of sudden while the latter is more based on healthy competition but should still lead to faster results for the team as a whole. More troops will be transported in sum if everbyody gives his best instead of doing nothing at all.
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"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Except, again, dps disparity in this game is too high at the moment. It's too easy for someone with a decent build to never get a hit in because others kill everything too fast.
You are right with what you say and I do not have the answers.
Power creep progressed far in STO. Especially on Normal difficulty maps high end players like me break the game and even issue AFK penalties for just hitting spacebar.
It would make no sense for placements here so they probably should be limited to higher difficulties as well as more complex PvE maps.
As for the learning part, you will get there as I once did. So will all the others if they happen to want to.
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Yea, I certainly agree.
I don't need to see others INFO, simply cause if your looking, you'll see a pattern. People who still want details can still obtain them, this was more about celebrating small victories, & a bonus reward a bit more often.
Seriously I have dozens of screencaps of in-game scoreboards. It's quite rare for these to include chat log entries from jerks.
This isn't a carefully selected assortment, this is just the four most recent ones.
Yes, some people are jerks, but they don't NEED scoreboards to be jerks.
My character Tsin'xing