They shot it over the starting wall before the opening timer ran out and there was a blinding Flare effect.
I might be one of the people who used the flare mortar, but it was never meant to grief.
If the flare mortar did that, did regular mortars not also target the opposing team?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
This was May 2017. Grief may have been the wrong word. There was not supposed to be any interaction between Teams, except with the Borg Turret stuff. The Flare Mortor came out with the Rep and the 'flare' interaction was not anticipated by Cryptic. I don't think any of its other capabilities affected the opposing Team, which is why other Mortors didn't either.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
highlighted for you what i wrote before. like you see i always said 20+5 for t5, 55 for t6 rep. nothing new added, nothing changed.
the failsave for "i'm not able to get the queues running by asking my friends/fleet/armada/zonechat/..." is to trade in 100 marks to get one elite mark. thats the failsave. its there. its just slow because you know its a failsave. and i showed you how you could ignore/avoid the slow part when leveling up a new one. i mentioned the dps-chats only on top, because for ME it worked and, surprise i'm one of the admins there, so you know a bit of promotion is always good. since it seems you have a problem with the dps channels or other pve related channels ok, i dont care, but doesnt change the facts.
because there are 2 ways, there isnt something needed to change at all, since you have possibilities. you might not like those (and obviously you dont do) but hey, thats life.
and technically, if you get the queues running, the competitive queues are propably one of the faster reputations to get those marks, because you could get a maximum of 9 tokens per 30 minutes (again when doing it right, winning the queue, getting the queue started directly because you and your friends queue for it, doing the elite version of the queue and stuff like that). to get 9 tokens in 30 minutes would mean 4 1/2 queues to play in those 30 minutes from another reputation, should work with omega marks with a good team but i guess thats it.
the major problem seems, that its not possible to get it running for a few i guess. and because of that you wanna change everything. not 100% sure if thats a good way to balance/design stuff
There's the true crux of your argument I was trying to get to. The bits in bold reveal quite a bit, which I will deal with in a couple of moments.
First up, you keep ignoring the issue completely that folks have spelled out for you several times. Many folks have attempted to get the Competitive gear with no success, be it one piece or several. Many of these folks have asked in the 3rd party channels like the DPS leagues or similar that you have mentioned, only to be met with silence. Since they have been unable to get the queues running, even when attempting to utilize 3rd party channels like the DPS leagues or similar, they have been locked out of being able to do the queues. As such they have had to resort to the "failsafe" option as you call it and convert marks to elite marks. Since they have been unable to get the queues going, this means for a good number of people, the "failsafe" has become the only means by which they can get stratagems consistently. Due to these issues they're stuck with a 60 hour minimum wait per piece of gear they try to go for. Depending on how many pieces of gear, you're looking at several hundred hours. This is a wait time that no other reputation has and an issue no other reputation has.
By your own statements if mark conversion is meant to be a failsafe, meaning it's not supposed to replace actual content as the source of those marks, well then we have a problem, because that's exactly what has happened for a bunch of folks. Since by your own logic it's meant to be a failsafe, and not a replacement for content, something needs to change here. There are 2 very simple solutions here, one with a huge downside and the other with a huge upside. The first solution is to simply remove the stratagems from the game and adjust costs accordingly. This has the huge downside of ensuring Competitive queues would be played even less than they already are. The second solution is to add an alternative source for the stratagems. The upside is that it brings the rep in line with all others as it would now have an alternative source of marks, and incentivizes people to play the content containing the alternative marks source. Depending on how it's implemented folks get additional content, plus an alternative source of elite marks. This may also give folks reason to try some of the competitive gear for themselves since the elite marks will be more readily available. It would remove the massive wait that no other rep has, while giving an alternative source of marks and bringing it in line with other reps, 2 birds one stone. Thus it would be in line with every other rep out there which has an alternative.
So far you have completely ignored what folks have said in that they have been unable to get the queues running. Your only "solution" has been "ask in the DPS leagues or similar 3rd party channels." Folks have told you that they've done exactly that, yet you've ignored it and simply repeated the mantra. Basically repeating the same thing twice expecting different results, the very definition of insanity. At that point your proposed solution boils down to the person asking in a 3rd party channel and hoping enough folks pity them and queue up, thus putting the power to decide who gets into those queues and who doesn't in the hands of those 3rd party channels. Sorry but no 3rd party channel should have that kind of power and influence, not even for 5 minutes. Now getting into the bits of your statement I have highlighted in bold above.
For the first bolded section, it basically boils down to "well it worked for me, and since it worked for me it will automatically work for everyone else. if it doesn't work for them like it did me then they're doing it wrong. if you don't agree it's because you have a bias against the DPS leagues and similar channels." Like really dude? I have no issues with folks who wish to utilize those channels as a resource. I DO however have an issue with them potentially having the power to decide who gets into the queues and who doesn't by whether they take pity on them or not. No channel should have that kind of power even for 5 minutes. The problem you have continued to ignore is what happens if/when folks use those 3rd party channels and are met with silence. What happens when they fail to produce results? This bring us to the second bolded section.
For the second statement it basically boils down to "play the queues or use the failsafe. if you still can't get it to work then too bad." Your second statement shows the pure hypocrisy of your line of logic. You state that you believe it to be a failsafe, which by definition means it's supposed to be a backup option and not the chief source of elite marks that replaces the queues. Yet for some that is exactly what has happened. Instead of acknowledging there is an issue, your "solution" is to just continue as is like nothing is wrong, even though no other rep has this issue. Every other rep has an alternative source of elite marks that exists outside the TFO system, and independent of mark conversion. Why should Competitive rep be the exception to that rule suddenly and be the exception to years of precedent? Folks aren't asking for anything that doesn't already exist for the other reputations. You call it a failsafe, which means it's meant to be a backup and not the chief source of elite marks, yet ignore the fact that's exactly what it's become for quite a few people, and simply repeat the mantra of "just ask in the DPS leagues or similar" which has already failed to produce results. You then basically say to folks if it still doesn't work "well that's just tough. It worked for me so you're doing it wrong."
This brings us to your 3rd section in bold. In your previous 2 sections you basically said "it worked for me so it automatically works for everyone, and if it doesn't you're doing it wrong. If you still can't get it going after asking in the DPS leagues and similar, well that's just too bad and you'll have to go without." You further compound this in your 3rd bolded section with what essentially amounts to "the few of you who are having this issue are not as important as folks like me who are doing it right and even though they're having an issue, fixing that issue and addressing a complaint isn't an important enough fix." In other words you basically told people that because it worked for you, it simply must work for everyone else. If it doesn't work for them and the DPS leagues can't/won't help them, well sorry about your luck. I guess you don't need it that badly if you're not willing to keep begging the DPS leagues hoping they will take pity on you. The fact they're even having an issue at all means they're doing it wrong and you and your crew are the only ones doing it right.
Your 3 bolded statements are 3 of the most elitist statements I have seen on this forum in some time. Simply because you do not see an issue does not automatically mean there isn't an issue. Downplaying the issue and ignoring it doesn't make it any less valid and does not mean folks don't have a valid complaint. By your own logic you call it a failsafe which necessitates action be taken, yet want to act like nothing is wrong. You've done nothing more than repeat the same mantra over and over of "just ask the leagues" and blown off legitimate questions about what folks are to do if that doesn't work. I'm sorry dude but the DPS leagues nor any 3rd party channel is so important they should have the power to decide who gets into content and who doesn't based on whether or not they take pity on that person and queue with them. Thank you for showing the true crux of your argument. Because you don't think there is an issue, there simply isn't one. Since you don't see an issue no alternative source of marks is needed when they can just beg the DPS leagues or another 3rd party channel for help and hope the league takes pity on them and queues. If no one is willing to queue with that person, they should just be SoL and must not need the elite marks if they're not willing to keep begging in the 3rd party channels. Those folks certainly don't need an alternative source of marks that would bring the Competitive rep in line with all other reps in game. They should just have to wait the 60+ hours since there is no issue. Oh and if people dare criticize the DPS leagues or other 3rd party channel as being the final hope of someone getting into the queue, it's because they have a bias against the leagues. It couldn't be because that essentially locks folks out of content.
No other rep has a 60+ hour minimum wait to get a single piece of gear. No other rep has this issue as its TFOs are able to be part of the system. No one is asking for anything that doesn't already exist for other reps. No one is asking that it be simply handed to them. What they're asking for is an alternative source of the elite marks so they can farm out what they need. It's no different than farming Dyson marks in the BZ vs the TFOs. Simply because you do not think there is a problem doesn't mean a problem does not exist.
Redesign the competitive maps for teams of 2x3 instead of 2x5. That way they would be more feasible to set up in this day and age.
In light of the paradox attitude of the player base to want high end items without the need to earn them in “high end content” I think this is an acceptable compromise.
If folks aren't going to queue for a 2x5 because they associate it with pvp what makes you think 2x3 will be any better? Dude seriously see my point above. No one is asking for anything that doesn't already exist for the other reps. Otherwise by your logic I suppose we should just remove all battlezones and keep everything to the TFOs and if folks can't get what they want from the TFOs well then too bad. Like I said above, it's no different than farming marks in the Dyson BZ vs doing the Dyson TFOs. They're not asking for anything that doesn't already exist for other reps. They're simply asking for Competitive rep to finally have its alternative source of elite marks. If you're not having an issue that's great, but you are not most players.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
great post with an epic wall of text to show that you might have a problem with the league. i always just showed how it is and how it could work at all and worked for me in the past and pretty much in the future.
i guess i need to repeat, the league was an EXAMPLE where you COULD get help. you bring it down to only the league, i said a BUNCH of possibilities, basically ask other people to help you get it running. in addition, the league DOES NOT prevent anyone from playing ANYTHING. its only one of the available resources to get external players to play with you, nothing more nothing less. if you dont like the league channels, fine, no one cares at all, its totaly up to you to use the resource or not.
i mean if i want to play some soccer/DnD/<insert any other game/sport/activity> in real life, i usualy ask my friends to play with me. i'm pretty sure you all would do the same. sure you could visit the place you're going to play and hope someone to show up, but its not given that it will work. so to get it running, ask your friends. and i'm pretty sure you wouldnt complain to your city/host of the enviroment where you wanna play that no one showed up to play with you.
that is EXACTLY how it work ingame but it seems to be a problem ingame.
sorry that i do not understand that behaviour, its pretty much beyond me.
great post with an epic wall of text to show that you might have a problem with the league. i always just showed how it is and how it could work at all and worked for me in the past and pretty much in the future.
i guess i need to repeat, the league was an EXAMPLE where you COULD get help. you bring it down to only the league, i said a BUNCH of possibilities, basically ask other people to help you get it running. in addition, the league DOES NOT prevent anyone from playing ANYTHING. its only one of the available resources to get external players to play with you, nothing more nothing less. if you dont like the league channels, fine, no one cares at all, its totaly up to you to use the resource or not.
Note that I said "DPS leagues or similar 3rd party channels." This means all 3rd party channels, not just the league. If it is left up to 3rd party channels to fill that gap and be the deciding factor as to who gets in and who doesn't, then we've got a problem as no 3rd party channel should have that much influence. I hold that standard whether it be the DPS leagues, my own channels I control, other fleet channels I'm part of and down the line. No 3rd party channel, regardless of who it is that runs the channel should have that kind of influence.
What I have told you and others have told you is that folks HAVE used those channels like the DPS channels you have mentioned or other 3rd party channels that they may have access to and have been met with silence. They've tried your methods of going into those channels and tried to use those potential resources, only it has NOT worked for them. They have gone into those channels, asked for help, and been ignored or no one was able to help them. Which is why I have asked repeatedly, what does a person do that that point? What are they supposed to do when they've asked in channels you have mentioned or any other channels and have been met with silence? What do they do? I really don't get why that's such a difficult question. When a person has tried to ask in the DPS leagues, or any other channel they might have access to in game and have been met with silence or had no luck, what then?
i mean if i want to play some soccer/DnD/<insert any other game/sport/activity> in real life, i usualy ask my friends to play with me. i'm pretty sure you all would do the same. sure you could visit the place you're going to play and hope someone to show up, but its not given that it will work. so to get it running, ask your friends. and i'm pretty sure you wouldnt complain to your city/host of the enviroment where you wanna play that no one showed up to play with you.
that is EXACTLY how it work ingame but it seems to be a problem ingame.
sorry that i do not understand that behaviour, its pretty much beyond me.
The examples you used are not even remotely comparable. In the event of DnD or a sport, there is almost always other alternative venues people can try, so you're not locked out of doing the sport/content.
With the Competitive rep, you have the queues to get the stratagems at the moment or converting marks and that's it, there is no other alternative. With Dyson as the prime example, you can get the Voth Implants from doing the Dyson TFOs, by converting Dyson marks to elite marks OR by going to the Dyson ground battlezone. If the TFOs don't pop and they need several elite marks they can go to the Dyson Ground Battlezone and get as many as they need. All other reps have a source for their elite marks that exist outside of the TFO system, Competitive does not. The issue is that without that alternative, folks are forced to wait 60+ hours to get gear, when no other rep has that kind of a wait requirement. All other reps can get full sets of gear, multiple full sets of gear in that same 60 hour span. Folks are not asking for anything that hasn't already been done for other reps. They're simply asking for a way to continue playing and keep moving forward even when they don't have the ability to get the queues running. Nothing more nothing less. Same concept as if the Terran Rep had no alternative and the queues wouldn't pop making it much harder for folks to get their Terran Disruptor/Phaser I hear so many talking about. I suspect if this issue effected Discovery rep or another gear source you used you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss everyone's concerns.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
If folks aren't going to queue for a 2x5 because they associate it with pvp what makes you think 2x3 will be any better? Dude seriously see my point above. No one is asking for anything that doesn't already exist for the other reps. Otherwise by your logic I suppose we should just remove all battlezones and keep everything to the TFOs and if folks can't get what they want from the TFOs well then too bad. Like I said above, it's no different than farming marks in the Dyson BZ vs doing the Dyson TFOs. They're not asking for anything that doesn't already exist for other reps. They're simply asking for Competitive rep to finally have its alternative source of elite marks. If you're not having an issue that's great, but you are not most players.
I won’t be able to expand on what Feli tries to explain to you so I give you only my very own experience resulting in my suggestion out of this dilemma.
I’m well networked in STO.
My influence as in friends, fleet, armada, pve channels, oh yea and league enables me to execute 5 man PvE maps during roughly 75-85% of my online time so basically whenever I want to. 1 or 2 missing players can almost ever be covered by randoms so pew pew is getting started.
Sadly my influence is not big enough to set up 10 man PvE maps whenever I want to. Perhaps only in like 5% of my gaming time so almost never. Right peeps need to be on, favours need to be called in and even then it takes time I’m not always willing to invest.
The result is that some maps simply remain off my menu contributing to the empty queue list you and Questerius also wait in.
Too bad for Questerius who even happens to be part of my community channel and needs those marks. As things are now if he has any sort of other elite mark needs I can back him up for everything but competitive. Sadly because of some misscalculation of Devs who dont know thier game he either has some better influence than I do among the comunity or needs to tend to STO forums for help.
He choose the latter, hence my suggestion.
Edit:
And yea you are right. I don't think that LOOSER means to acquire elite marks should be added more than there already are. It is the verry thing that takes away the game for everybody and will probably see to it that I wont be able to get 5 man maps started next year at this time anymore either.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
And yea you are right. I don't think that LOOSER means to acquire elite marks should be added more than there already are. It is the verry thing that takes away the game for everybody and will probably see to it that I wont be able to get 5 man maps started next year at this time anymore either.
I'm glad you have no issues getting content started, but again you are the exception and not the rule in that case. The thing you need to understand is you can't force people to play content they don't want to play. Trying to pigeonhole them into it isn't going to make them do it either. All it's going to do is make people want to quit and not play. Alternatives already exist for every other rep in game, EXCEPT for Competitive at the moment. That's really all the issue is. Folks aren't asking for it to be handed to them, they're simply asking for what all the other reps already have. Folks still have to participate in those alternative sources to get the elite marks, this would be no different. If you don't want to participate in that alternate source, you wouldn't have to. If you prefer to stick to the queues you still could. I really don't see why this is such an issue for people.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
From what I've read here it seems like what we need is some sort of Competitive Battlezone. What might that look like..? Some things I would suggest:
Similar to existing BZs in which players attempt to capture various zones in order to force a final Boss encounter.
Players are assigned to whichever of two teams has the fewest members on arrival.
Zones captured by either team count as progress towards the final encounters but the end rewards are scaled by how many zones each team captured.
Randomised enemies in each area.
Both teams can try to capture an area at the same time. Anyone involved in capping a zone gets rewards when it is captured but the first team to succeed at the goal gets to count the zone at the end.
Needs to be entertaining/rewarding enough that people will play it for its own sake not just the elite marks.
Only slightly competitive, in that it's just a race not PVP and rewards for winning are a bit better than the reward for losing.
I'm not sure where to put this, I'd suggest somewhere in Klingon space.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah, I'd have a real hard look at the alternative means for Lukari Protomatter Containers. That BZ is still borked for awarding them.
'The Tzen'kethi Dreadnoughts seem to be waiting for the right time...'. You mean wrong time don't you, like when the entire BZ has been captured.
Just like the Borg Red Alert. The Command Pickle appears and all other Borg Ships Transwarp out. Good strategy.
'Lord Nelson, since you have arrived with His Majesty's Flagship HMS Victory, the rest of His Majesty's ships are just going to head back to Gibraltar. Good luck!!'.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah, I'd have a real hard look at the alternative means for Lukari Protomatter Containers. That BZ is still borked for awarding them.
'The Tzen'kethi Dreadnoughts seem to be waiting for the right time...'. You mean wrong time don't you, like when the entire BZ has been captured.
Just like the Borg Red Alert. The Command Pickle appears and all other Borg Ships Transwarp out. Good strategy.
'Lord Nelson, since you have arrived with His Majesty's Flagship HMS Victory, the rest of His Majesty's ships are just going to head back to Gibraltar. Good luck!!'.
Hahaha! I've always scratched my head at that stuff, too.
Currently in the process of gathering Assessed Stratagems for some rep gear.
However, Advanced or Elite difficulty TFO for the Assessed Stratagems rarely pop and are excluded from the random queue.
IMO this makes gathering said Assessed Stratagems IMO a huge annoyance. In your opinion could we do with another source for those Stratagems?
Or should the 20 hour restriction for converting marks into Assessed Stratagems be lifted?
It's unfortunate that none of these specific instances ever pop because even on Elite, I found a number of them quite easy compared to other Advanced / Elite ones.
great post with an epic wall of text to show that you might have a problem with the league. i always just showed how it is and how it could work at all and worked for me in the past and pretty much in the future.
i guess i need to repeat, the league was an EXAMPLE where you COULD get help. you bring it down to only the league, i said a BUNCH of possibilities, basically ask other people to help you get it running. in addition, the league DOES NOT prevent anyone from playing ANYTHING. its only one of the available resources to get external players to play with you, nothing more nothing less. if you dont like the league channels, fine, no one cares at all, its totaly up to you to use the resource or not.
Note that I said "DPS leagues or similar 3rd party channels." This means all 3rd party channels, not just the league. If it is left up to 3rd party channels to fill that gap and be the deciding factor as to who gets in and who doesn't, then we've got a problem as no 3rd party channel should have that much influence. I hold that standard whether it be the DPS leagues, my own channels I control, other fleet channels I'm part of and down the line. No 3rd party channel, regardless of who it is that runs the channel should have that kind of influence.
What I have told you and others have told you is that folks HAVE used those channels like the DPS channels you have mentioned or other 3rd party channels that they may have access to and have been met with silence. They've tried your methods of going into those channels and tried to use those potential resources, only it has NOT worked for them. They have gone into those channels, asked for help, and been ignored or no one was able to help them. Which is why I have asked repeatedly, what does a person do that that point? What are they supposed to do when they've asked in channels you have mentioned or any other channels and have been met with silence? What do they do? I really don't get why that's such a difficult question. When a person has tried to ask in the DPS leagues, or any other channel they might have access to in game and have been met with silence or had no luck, what then?
i mean if i want to play some soccer/DnD/<insert any other game/sport/activity> in real life, i usualy ask my friends to play with me. i'm pretty sure you all would do the same. sure you could visit the place you're going to play and hope someone to show up, but its not given that it will work. so to get it running, ask your friends. and i'm pretty sure you wouldnt complain to your city/host of the enviroment where you wanna play that no one showed up to play with you.
that is EXACTLY how it work ingame but it seems to be a problem ingame.
sorry that i do not understand that behaviour, its pretty much beyond me.
The examples you used are not even remotely comparable. In the event of DnD or a sport, there is almost always other alternative venues people can try, so you're not locked out of doing the sport/content.
With the Competitive rep, you have the queues to get the stratagems at the moment or converting marks and that's it, there is no other alternative. With Dyson as the prime example, you can get the Voth Implants from doing the Dyson TFOs, by converting Dyson marks to elite marks OR by going to the Dyson ground battlezone. If the TFOs don't pop and they need several elite marks they can go to the Dyson Ground Battlezone and get as many as they need. All other reps have a source for their elite marks that exist outside of the TFO system, Competitive does not. The issue is that without that alternative, folks are forced to wait 60+ hours to get gear, when no other rep has that kind of a wait requirement. All other reps can get full sets of gear, multiple full sets of gear in that same 60 hour span. Folks are not asking for anything that hasn't already been done for other reps. They're simply asking for a way to continue playing and keep moving forward even when they don't have the ability to get the queues running. Nothing more nothing less. Same concept as if the Terran Rep had no alternative and the queues wouldn't pop making it much harder for folks to get their Terran Disruptor/Phaser I hear so many talking about. I suspect if this issue effected Discovery rep or another gear source you used you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss everyone's concerns.
ok please explain me what other routes you have if you want to play some sport, beside
a) ask friends/other random people to play with you = in sto terms the evil ask your fleet/friend/severl chat channels
b) go to the sport place and hope someone is there already/will be there = in sto use the random queue
c) play alone = in sto terms, get a bunch of alt accounts and queue with them, since its required to start the queue mechanic wise.
oh and the hypotetical person itminns mentioned stil has a MASSIVE problem if that hypotetical person does not have any friends. that hypotetical person will always relay on luck to stumble on others to help him running whatever. you might even say that person is TRIBBLE.
oh btw, we could just remove all the elite tokens, since they dont really serve much purpose at all
would solve all those problems here
If folks aren't going to queue for a 2x5 because they associate it with pvp what makes you think 2x3 will be any better? Dude seriously see my point above. No one is asking for anything that doesn't already exist for the other reps. Otherwise by your logic I suppose we should just remove all battlezones and keep everything to the TFOs and if folks can't get what they want from the TFOs well then too bad. Like I said above, it's no different than farming marks in the Dyson BZ vs doing the Dyson TFOs. They're not asking for anything that doesn't already exist for other reps. They're simply asking for Competitive rep to finally have its alternative source of elite marks. If you're not having an issue that's great, but you are not most players.
*points at Ker'rat and Otha*
Like I said before, it's only getting a BZ if the devs can add it to an existing BZ... that has PvP. And we have two of those. Have fun hunting the most deadly game of all.
From what I've read here it seems like what we need is some sort of Competitive Battlezone. What might that look like..? Some things I would suggest:
Similar to existing BZs in which players attempt to capture various zones in order to force a final Boss encounter.
Players are assigned to whichever of two teams has the fewest members on arrival.
Zones captured by either team count as progress towards the final encounters but the end rewards are scaled by how many zones each team captured.
Randomised enemies in each area.
Both teams can try to capture an area at the same time. Anyone involved in capping a zone gets rewards when it is captured but the first team to succeed at the goal gets to count the zone at the end.
Needs to be entertaining/rewarding enough that people will play it for its own sake not just the elite marks.
Only slightly competitive, in that it's just a race not PVP and rewards for winning are a bit better than the reward for losing.
I'm not sure where to put this, I'd suggest somewhere in Klingon space.
Ok the race idea has some merit as there IS an existing space map that's a race. But it's strictly PvE and would need a revamp to be PvP. It's one of the Delta Quadrant patrols.
Currently in the process of gathering Assessed Stratagems for some rep gear.
However, Advanced or Elite difficulty TFO for the Assessed Stratagems rarely pop and are excluded from the random queue.
IMO this makes gathering said Assessed Stratagems IMO a huge annoyance. In your opinion could we do with another source for those Stratagems?
Or should the 20 hour restriction for converting marks into Assessed Stratagems be lifted?
It's unfortunate that none of these specific instances ever pop because even on Elite, I found a number of them quite easy compared to other Advanced / Elite ones.
True, but the fact that it has puzzles and requires teamwork (Bridges/push buttons) to progress probably pushes people away.
While i am not in favor of such, adding a timer on the puzzles like with the button push for the assault on the Terran DS9 (forgot what it is called) could potentially make the queues a bit more accessible.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Currently in the process of gathering Assessed Stratagems for some rep gear.
However, Advanced or Elite difficulty TFO for the Assessed Stratagems rarely pop and are excluded from the random queue.
IMO this makes gathering said Assessed Stratagems IMO a huge annoyance. In your opinion could we do with another source for those Stratagems?
Or should the 20 hour restriction for converting marks into Assessed Stratagems be lifted?
It's unfortunate that none of these specific instances ever pop because even on Elite, I found a number of them quite easy compared to other Advanced / Elite ones.
True, but the fact that it has puzzles and requires teamwork (Bridges/push buttons) to progress probably pushes people away.
While i am not in favor of such, adding a timer on the puzzles like with the button push for the assault on the Terran DS9 (forgot what it is called) could potentially make the queues a bit more accessible.
I found Binary Circuit Elite fairly easy as compared to other elite queues as well. The "puzzles" are quite simple. Back when it popped regularly pug teams used to literally run through it. Two good teams racing each other was quite the thrill no matter how you placed ^^
For some strange reason unknown to me teamwork being required to complete a queue is almost being viewed as a negative at times
There are 5 people on a team. Pretty sure this is working as designed for the TFO portion of the game.
Currently in the process of gathering Assessed Stratagems for some rep gear.
However, Advanced or Elite difficulty TFO for the Assessed Stratagems rarely pop and are excluded from the random queue.
IMO this makes gathering said Assessed Stratagems IMO a huge annoyance. In your opinion could we do with another source for those Stratagems?
Or should the 20 hour restriction for converting marks into Assessed Stratagems be lifted?
It's unfortunate that none of these specific instances ever pop because even on Elite, I found a number of them quite easy compared to other Advanced / Elite ones.
True, but the fact that it has puzzles and requires teamwork (Bridges/push buttons) to progress probably pushes people away.
While i am not in favor of such, adding a timer on the puzzles like with the button push for the assault on the Terran DS9 (forgot what it is called) could potentially make the queues a bit more accessible.
I found Binary Circuit Elite fairly easy as compared to other elite queues as well. The "puzzles" are quite simple. Back when it popped regularly pug teams used to literally run through it. Two good teams racing each other was quite the thrill no matter how you placed ^^
For some strange reason unknown to me teamwork being required to complete a queue is almost being viewed as a negative at times
There are 5 people on a team. Pretty sure this is working as designed for the TFO portion of the game.
Honestly I find ground elites to be easier than space elites. Also, except the boss room, the actual fights are easy.
....
i mentioned the dps-chats only on top, because for ME it worked and, surprise i'm one of the admins there, so you know a bit of promotion is always good. since it seems you have a problem with the dps channels or other pve related channels ok, i dont care, but doesnt change the facts.
....
Hmmm.... so if an admin of the DPS-Chat has no problems finding people...in the DPS-Chat.... everyone should have the same luck?
And you absolutly don't see why people in this chat MAY be more inclined to start a TFO with YOU than a random person joining and asking?
Thing is, it may not be hard for you to start an Elite Competitve TFO, but for most of us it is nearly impossible... and asking a friend isn't always a option, all but one of my close friends dropped sto a while ago, and i'm sure i'm not alone on this.
Also, ....socializing because it's an MMO....you see, i can get all of the other stuff through random TFOs and Battlezones, playing with others but not even touching the chat remotly, let alone Reddit....could you pls explain why this shouldn't be possible for Strategems?
I'm here to play the game, not to chat, if you like to chat, thats fine, but not everyone wants to or has the time to. Some people only play on limited time...they want to play, nothing more, nothing less.
Online =/= Chat ... you know you can play with others in STO without talking to them, right? A REAL Team can work together in a game without talking...
Sooo... only Strategems are Elite Marks? 'Cause you know....you can get all the other Rep. 'Special' Marks way easier, must be a typo they also call them Elite *hmm*
So....as with darkblade's statements. Having to rely on other players, outside/third party communications, scheduling, etc., just is not a valid solution.
Yes, yes how could I have been so blind.
It is the very online part of Star Trek Online which is at question here. The mod who has so much to say is completely right. Team activity of any sort should be OUT of the question of course and any ways to secure that need to be explored.
And while we are at it. The stuff we are talking about is just called elite mark as in figure of speech. Of course they absolutely do not mean that any form of effort within this game should be needed to be undertaken to the slightest to acquire them in the first place. The gear you are able to get with them will surely shine on your next story replay you do on your own on easy mode.
It’s the way things should be; what JK suggest is what mmorpgs are all about for sure.
Online =/= Chat ... you know you can play with others in STO without talking to them, right? A REAL Team can work together in a game without talking...
Sooo... only Strategems are Elite Marks? 'Cause you know....you can get all the other Rep. 'Special' Marks way easier, must be a typo they also call them Elite *hmm*
Yea you know I’m very aware of how pathetic the situation in this title already is; hence my reluctance to accept any ideas to move the last tiny stones out of the way of people in order to get everything for doing nothing.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
An hour ago, I was set to do Endeavors, and one was Tetryon Damage Ground. I looked through my Boffs to see if I had some to equip the Away Team. Then I remembered that Competitive had those Dual Pistols. I was set to buy them then decided against it.
I still had 10 Strategems after I bought the Impulse Engines. To me anything I buy from Competitive after a piece or two is an 'impulse ' buy. I can get it when I want it.
Yes, alternative content for obtaining the Elite Marks in this Reputation is a one-off. But this Reputation in and of itself was/is a one-off. It was shoe-horned in to try to satisfy some need for player competition without getting into the potential toxic zone of PVP. Its Dilithium Store pretty much sells useless cr*p.
What Cryptic should do is normalize the cost of Reputation Project equipment. Reduce Omega Ship to the price of all other Reps. Reduce Ground Equipment to 2 Elite Marks like the Space Weapon Set.
I also know that all the newer BZs limit your Away Team to you and 2 Boffs, so 3 overall. It would seem that they have the 'technology' to set up a Team of 3. Some tweaking (work) on Cryptic's part and they could re-jigger the Competitive Queues to 3x3 to get them to pop more frequently.
Sompek after 34 Rounds to start awarding them also is something worth looking at.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yea you know I’m very aware of how pathetic the situation in this title already is; hence my reluctance to accept any ideas to move the last tiny stones out of the way of people in order to get everything for doing nothing.
You make it sound like it is in anyway hard to get Strategems, the problem isn't that it's hard, the problem is it is painfully slow... either because you have to wait endlessly on an Competitive-TFO (and maybe you're out of luck and it will never pop)... or you have to convert them one by a day...
And nobody said the potential new BZ (or whatever the solution would be) should be something you don't have to 'work' for.
For some strange reason unknown to me teamwork being required to complete a queue is almost being viewed as a negative at times
There are 5 people on a team. Pretty sure this is working as designed for the TFO portion of the game.
That right there. What if I don't have four friends who are available and willing to play that specific content at that specific time?
Now... in the case of the competitive rep TFOs, they are not eligible for random selection and just queuing for them and waiting for them to pop is not working for people. (I've heard of people waiting for over 90 minutes and still not getting one).
So....as with darkblade's statements. Having to rely on other players, outside/third party communications, scheduling, etc., just is not a valid solution. Oh and also isn't necessary for ANY of the other reps (which all have battlezones and/or random-eligible TFOs). We're only asking for a rep that has a unique problem to be addressed.
My comment was that teamwork is almost becoming a dirty word these days with respect to any queue completion and wasn't necessarily directly related to getting stratagems.
I acknowledge that with this rep there is an unique issue which has been mentioned ad nauseam. Strangely enough this seems to be a thread were you mention what works for yourself (in my case marks turn in) and it gets taken as a lack of respect to some person or group. This is not my intent.
If a player were to have engaged in marks turn in for the duration of this thread they already would have had enough stratagems for a full 4 piece competitive space set if you were to include the stratagems gained from reaching tier 5.
Perhaps one way in which the queues involved could be highlighted would be to include them in a featured TFO series similar to The Borg Resurgence?
Just include one ground and the one space queue in which there isn't any player versus player contact and make the queues available at all 3 difficulty levels. FTFO's seem to be a great way to (re) familiarize players to game content and get things popping.
ok please explain me what other routes you have if you want to play some sport, beside
a) ask friends/other random people to play with you = in sto terms the evil ask your fleet/friend/severl chat channels
b) go to the sport place and hope someone is there already/will be there = in sto use the random queue
c) play alone = in sto terms, get a bunch of alt accounts and queue with them, since its required to start the queue mechanic wise.
oh and the hypotetical person itminns mentioned stil has a MASSIVE problem if that hypotetical person does not have any friends. that hypotetical person will always relay on luck to stumble on others to help him running whatever. you might even say that person is TRIBBLE.
oh btw, we could just remove all the elite tokens, since they dont really serve much purpose at all
would solve all those problems here
It's already been explained to you several times, you've just not listened. One should not need to have a massive friends or be in every 3rd party channel in a game like this to get something started. If folks have access to those channels, want to use them, and are able to get results from those channels, by all means, that's great they worked for that person. However that one person is not all people. Not every person has access to those channels, and not every person is going to know a bunch of folks like veteran players such as the two of us. What if said hypothetical person is newer to the game and does not yet have the connections you or I might have? Why should they be unable to get into content purely because of that? Also who said the DPS leagues or other 3rd party chats were somehow evil? I know I didn't. What I did say was they shouldn't be the deciding factor as to who gets into content and who shouldn't, and folks shouldn't have to keep pleading with folks in those channels to take pity on them and queue up so they can progress a rep, get gear in a reasonable time frame or down the line. THAT is what was said.
As is right now, all other reps have alternatives to get the elite marks and even regular marks, EXCEPT for Competitive wargames. These alternatives exist outside the TFO system and can be played generally by a single player or large group of players. So even the solo player is able to see progress. Dyson Ground BZ is a prime example of this. Players can get Dyson marks, both normal and elite, from the TFOs or from the BZ. The overall result is the same and either way they're having to work for it. Folks are asking for an alternative to the elite marks be given similar to Dyson BZ as the prime example. Maybe they give an entirely new alternative zone, maybe they simply tick a box and let them start dropping from something like Tzenkethi BZ, maybe it's something else entirely. Far as to what form you want to theorize that alternative taking is up to you. However I have suggested a stratajama type thing, adding them to an already existing BZ such as Gamma or Tzenkethi, or them giving us new content outright. I don't care what form it takes so long as folks aren't forced purely into PVP to do it, and are able to get the marks. I would venture most folks aren't above a little grind within reason, otherwise they wouldn't be playing mmos.
Another person has already touched base on this but I am going to as well as I think it bears a bit of emphasis. Generally an admin is going to have more luck in their own channels than someone who is not an admin. If you speak in the DPS channels as an admin, or in a place where folks know you are an admin, more people are going to pay attention generally than if came from a random Joe. It's the same concept as when myself or one of the other mods say something, be it speaking as a mod or just a regular poster. folks tend to notice even if they don't agree with what I am saying. With that in mind simply because you or I might find luck in those channels does NOT automatically mean others will. If they have no luck in those channels, how do you suggest they move forward? How do you suggest they continue to be able to play the game? What are they to do when they've exhausted all other options to get the queues going? Why should they have to wait 60+ hours for ONE single reputation when no other rep has that same issue?
Folks are not asking anything be removed. Folks are not asking to have it handed to them for free. What they're asking for is simply another way to get the elite marks period. No different than when Temporal elite marks were added to the Badlands BZ. So far the only one I see here who has suggested anything be removed is some of the bunch like yourself who seem to think there is no issue.
Yea you know I’m very aware of how pathetic the situation in this title already is; hence my reluctance to accept any ideas to move the last tiny stones out of the way of people in order to get everything for doing nothing.
Okay dude here's the deal. Simply because YOU have decided you don't think there is an issue does NOT automatically mean there isn't one or that you are correct. That's not how it works. If you aren't experiencing the issue, then cool, that's a good thing. However simply because YOU do not see an issue or YOU are not experiencing it does NOT mean there is no issue. I've seen quite a few extremely elitist comments in here that basically boil down to "well just keep doing the same thing and expect different results. If the the DPS leagues or similar can't or won't help you like they do me then you should just be SoL. since you're not seeing the same results as me you're doing it wrong and should have to go without. If you find waiting 60+ hours for that piece of gear unreasonable, even though no other rep makes you do it, you're just bad at the game. If you think folks should have an alternative source of elite marks for Competitive rep, you're just bad at the game. And if you criticize my logic its because you're biased against the DPS leagues or similar channels."
Show me anywhere that anyone has suggested they should just be handed the stratagems for free, because I want to see that. No one has suggested competitive queues be removed. No one has suggested it be handed out for free. No one is asking for the removal of team based content. No one is saying folks shouldn't have to work for it. What folks ARE saying is they want an alternative source for those marks to drop like how Temporal marks were added to the Badlands battlezone, or how you can get Voth Implants from the Dyson BZ or Dyson TFOs, that's it. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea folks want it handed to them for free. They're simply saying "hey Cryptic, can we get an alternative to bring this in line with other reps so we're not having to wait 60+ hours like the other reps don't make us do." Not everyone is going to take the same route you or I do in game. Simply because they farmed their Terran Marks and their Gravimetric Inducers in the Badlands battlezone vs you or I farming them in the Terran TFOs doesn't make it any less of a valid accomplishment. Whether folks farm their stuff in the battlezones or in the TFOs they still have to play the game. So this idea that they're getting it for free is 100% untrue and completely baseless. Battlezones are simply an alternative that can be done with a team or without for those who do not have a team. Good grief man.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Comments
I might be one of the people who used the flare mortar, but it was never meant to grief.
If the flare mortar did that, did regular mortars not also target the opposing team?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
First up, you keep ignoring the issue completely that folks have spelled out for you several times. Many folks have attempted to get the Competitive gear with no success, be it one piece or several. Many of these folks have asked in the 3rd party channels like the DPS leagues or similar that you have mentioned, only to be met with silence. Since they have been unable to get the queues running, even when attempting to utilize 3rd party channels like the DPS leagues or similar, they have been locked out of being able to do the queues. As such they have had to resort to the "failsafe" option as you call it and convert marks to elite marks. Since they have been unable to get the queues going, this means for a good number of people, the "failsafe" has become the only means by which they can get stratagems consistently. Due to these issues they're stuck with a 60 hour minimum wait per piece of gear they try to go for. Depending on how many pieces of gear, you're looking at several hundred hours. This is a wait time that no other reputation has and an issue no other reputation has.
By your own statements if mark conversion is meant to be a failsafe, meaning it's not supposed to replace actual content as the source of those marks, well then we have a problem, because that's exactly what has happened for a bunch of folks. Since by your own logic it's meant to be a failsafe, and not a replacement for content, something needs to change here. There are 2 very simple solutions here, one with a huge downside and the other with a huge upside. The first solution is to simply remove the stratagems from the game and adjust costs accordingly. This has the huge downside of ensuring Competitive queues would be played even less than they already are. The second solution is to add an alternative source for the stratagems. The upside is that it brings the rep in line with all others as it would now have an alternative source of marks, and incentivizes people to play the content containing the alternative marks source. Depending on how it's implemented folks get additional content, plus an alternative source of elite marks. This may also give folks reason to try some of the competitive gear for themselves since the elite marks will be more readily available. It would remove the massive wait that no other rep has, while giving an alternative source of marks and bringing it in line with other reps, 2 birds one stone. Thus it would be in line with every other rep out there which has an alternative.
So far you have completely ignored what folks have said in that they have been unable to get the queues running. Your only "solution" has been "ask in the DPS leagues or similar 3rd party channels." Folks have told you that they've done exactly that, yet you've ignored it and simply repeated the mantra. Basically repeating the same thing twice expecting different results, the very definition of insanity. At that point your proposed solution boils down to the person asking in a 3rd party channel and hoping enough folks pity them and queue up, thus putting the power to decide who gets into those queues and who doesn't in the hands of those 3rd party channels. Sorry but no 3rd party channel should have that kind of power and influence, not even for 5 minutes. Now getting into the bits of your statement I have highlighted in bold above.
For the first bolded section, it basically boils down to "well it worked for me, and since it worked for me it will automatically work for everyone else. if it doesn't work for them like it did me then they're doing it wrong. if you don't agree it's because you have a bias against the DPS leagues and similar channels." Like really dude? I have no issues with folks who wish to utilize those channels as a resource. I DO however have an issue with them potentially having the power to decide who gets into the queues and who doesn't by whether they take pity on them or not. No channel should have that kind of power even for 5 minutes. The problem you have continued to ignore is what happens if/when folks use those 3rd party channels and are met with silence. What happens when they fail to produce results? This bring us to the second bolded section.
For the second statement it basically boils down to "play the queues or use the failsafe. if you still can't get it to work then too bad." Your second statement shows the pure hypocrisy of your line of logic. You state that you believe it to be a failsafe, which by definition means it's supposed to be a backup option and not the chief source of elite marks that replaces the queues. Yet for some that is exactly what has happened. Instead of acknowledging there is an issue, your "solution" is to just continue as is like nothing is wrong, even though no other rep has this issue. Every other rep has an alternative source of elite marks that exists outside the TFO system, and independent of mark conversion. Why should Competitive rep be the exception to that rule suddenly and be the exception to years of precedent? Folks aren't asking for anything that doesn't already exist for the other reputations. You call it a failsafe, which means it's meant to be a backup and not the chief source of elite marks, yet ignore the fact that's exactly what it's become for quite a few people, and simply repeat the mantra of "just ask in the DPS leagues or similar" which has already failed to produce results. You then basically say to folks if it still doesn't work "well that's just tough. It worked for me so you're doing it wrong."
This brings us to your 3rd section in bold. In your previous 2 sections you basically said "it worked for me so it automatically works for everyone, and if it doesn't you're doing it wrong. If you still can't get it going after asking in the DPS leagues and similar, well that's just too bad and you'll have to go without." You further compound this in your 3rd bolded section with what essentially amounts to "the few of you who are having this issue are not as important as folks like me who are doing it right and even though they're having an issue, fixing that issue and addressing a complaint isn't an important enough fix." In other words you basically told people that because it worked for you, it simply must work for everyone else. If it doesn't work for them and the DPS leagues can't/won't help them, well sorry about your luck. I guess you don't need it that badly if you're not willing to keep begging the DPS leagues hoping they will take pity on you. The fact they're even having an issue at all means they're doing it wrong and you and your crew are the only ones doing it right.
Your 3 bolded statements are 3 of the most elitist statements I have seen on this forum in some time. Simply because you do not see an issue does not automatically mean there isn't an issue. Downplaying the issue and ignoring it doesn't make it any less valid and does not mean folks don't have a valid complaint. By your own logic you call it a failsafe which necessitates action be taken, yet want to act like nothing is wrong. You've done nothing more than repeat the same mantra over and over of "just ask the leagues" and blown off legitimate questions about what folks are to do if that doesn't work. I'm sorry dude but the DPS leagues nor any 3rd party channel is so important they should have the power to decide who gets into content and who doesn't based on whether or not they take pity on that person and queue with them. Thank you for showing the true crux of your argument. Because you don't think there is an issue, there simply isn't one. Since you don't see an issue no alternative source of marks is needed when they can just beg the DPS leagues or another 3rd party channel for help and hope the league takes pity on them and queues. If no one is willing to queue with that person, they should just be SoL and must not need the elite marks if they're not willing to keep begging in the 3rd party channels. Those folks certainly don't need an alternative source of marks that would bring the Competitive rep in line with all other reps in game. They should just have to wait the 60+ hours since there is no issue. Oh and if people dare criticize the DPS leagues or other 3rd party channel as being the final hope of someone getting into the queue, it's because they have a bias against the leagues. It couldn't be because that essentially locks folks out of content.
No other rep has a 60+ hour minimum wait to get a single piece of gear. No other rep has this issue as its TFOs are able to be part of the system. No one is asking for anything that doesn't already exist for other reps. No one is asking that it be simply handed to them. What they're asking for is an alternative source of the elite marks so they can farm out what they need. It's no different than farming Dyson marks in the BZ vs the TFOs. Simply because you do not think there is a problem doesn't mean a problem does not exist.
If folks aren't going to queue for a 2x5 because they associate it with pvp what makes you think 2x3 will be any better? Dude seriously see my point above. No one is asking for anything that doesn't already exist for the other reps. Otherwise by your logic I suppose we should just remove all battlezones and keep everything to the TFOs and if folks can't get what they want from the TFOs well then too bad. Like I said above, it's no different than farming marks in the Dyson BZ vs doing the Dyson TFOs. They're not asking for anything that doesn't already exist for other reps. They're simply asking for Competitive rep to finally have its alternative source of elite marks. If you're not having an issue that's great, but you are not most players.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
i guess i need to repeat, the league was an EXAMPLE where you COULD get help. you bring it down to only the league, i said a BUNCH of possibilities, basically ask other people to help you get it running. in addition, the league DOES NOT prevent anyone from playing ANYTHING. its only one of the available resources to get external players to play with you, nothing more nothing less. if you dont like the league channels, fine, no one cares at all, its totaly up to you to use the resource or not.
i mean if i want to play some soccer/DnD/<insert any other game/sport/activity> in real life, i usualy ask my friends to play with me. i'm pretty sure you all would do the same. sure you could visit the place you're going to play and hope someone to show up, but its not given that it will work. so to get it running, ask your friends. and i'm pretty sure you wouldnt complain to your city/host of the enviroment where you wanna play that no one showed up to play with you.
that is EXACTLY how it work ingame but it seems to be a problem ingame.
sorry that i do not understand that behaviour, its pretty much beyond me.
ingame: @Felisean
What I have told you and others have told you is that folks HAVE used those channels like the DPS channels you have mentioned or other 3rd party channels that they may have access to and have been met with silence. They've tried your methods of going into those channels and tried to use those potential resources, only it has NOT worked for them. They have gone into those channels, asked for help, and been ignored or no one was able to help them. Which is why I have asked repeatedly, what does a person do that that point? What are they supposed to do when they've asked in channels you have mentioned or any other channels and have been met with silence? What do they do? I really don't get why that's such a difficult question. When a person has tried to ask in the DPS leagues, or any other channel they might have access to in game and have been met with silence or had no luck, what then?
The examples you used are not even remotely comparable. In the event of DnD or a sport, there is almost always other alternative venues people can try, so you're not locked out of doing the sport/content.
With the Competitive rep, you have the queues to get the stratagems at the moment or converting marks and that's it, there is no other alternative. With Dyson as the prime example, you can get the Voth Implants from doing the Dyson TFOs, by converting Dyson marks to elite marks OR by going to the Dyson ground battlezone. If the TFOs don't pop and they need several elite marks they can go to the Dyson Ground Battlezone and get as many as they need. All other reps have a source for their elite marks that exist outside of the TFO system, Competitive does not. The issue is that without that alternative, folks are forced to wait 60+ hours to get gear, when no other rep has that kind of a wait requirement. All other reps can get full sets of gear, multiple full sets of gear in that same 60 hour span. Folks are not asking for anything that hasn't already been done for other reps. They're simply asking for a way to continue playing and keep moving forward even when they don't have the ability to get the queues running. Nothing more nothing less. Same concept as if the Terran Rep had no alternative and the queues wouldn't pop making it much harder for folks to get their Terran Disruptor/Phaser I hear so many talking about. I suspect if this issue effected Discovery rep or another gear source you used you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss everyone's concerns.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I won’t be able to expand on what Feli tries to explain to you so I give you only my very own experience resulting in my suggestion out of this dilemma.
I’m well networked in STO.
My influence as in friends, fleet, armada, pve channels, oh yea and league enables me to execute 5 man PvE maps during roughly 75-85% of my online time so basically whenever I want to. 1 or 2 missing players can almost ever be covered by randoms so pew pew is getting started.
Sadly my influence is not big enough to set up 10 man PvE maps whenever I want to. Perhaps only in like 5% of my gaming time so almost never. Right peeps need to be on, favours need to be called in and even then it takes time I’m not always willing to invest.
The result is that some maps simply remain off my menu contributing to the empty queue list you and Questerius also wait in.
Too bad for Questerius who even happens to be part of my community channel and needs those marks. As things are now if he has any sort of other elite mark needs I can back him up for everything but competitive. Sadly because of some misscalculation of Devs who dont know thier game he either has some better influence than I do among the comunity or needs to tend to STO forums for help.
He choose the latter, hence my suggestion.
Edit:
And yea you are right. I don't think that LOOSER means to acquire elite marks should be added more than there already are. It is the verry thing that takes away the game for everybody and will probably see to it that I wont be able to get 5 man maps started next year at this time anymore either.
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I'm glad you have no issues getting content started, but again you are the exception and not the rule in that case. The thing you need to understand is you can't force people to play content they don't want to play. Trying to pigeonhole them into it isn't going to make them do it either. All it's going to do is make people want to quit and not play. Alternatives already exist for every other rep in game, EXCEPT for Competitive at the moment. That's really all the issue is. Folks aren't asking for it to be handed to them, they're simply asking for what all the other reps already have. Folks still have to participate in those alternative sources to get the elite marks, this would be no different. If you don't want to participate in that alternate source, you wouldn't have to. If you prefer to stick to the queues you still could. I really don't see why this is such an issue for people.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Similar to existing BZs in which players attempt to capture various zones in order to force a final Boss encounter.
Players are assigned to whichever of two teams has the fewest members on arrival.
Zones captured by either team count as progress towards the final encounters but the end rewards are scaled by how many zones each team captured.
Randomised enemies in each area.
Both teams can try to capture an area at the same time. Anyone involved in capping a zone gets rewards when it is captured but the first team to succeed at the goal gets to count the zone at the end.
Needs to be entertaining/rewarding enough that people will play it for its own sake not just the elite marks.
Only slightly competitive, in that it's just a race not PVP and rewards for winning are a bit better than the reward for losing.
I'm not sure where to put this, I'd suggest somewhere in Klingon space.
But I respawn
I am duranium!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
ingame: @Felisean
'The Tzen'kethi Dreadnoughts seem to be waiting for the right time...'. You mean wrong time don't you, like when the entire BZ has been captured.
Just like the Borg Red Alert. The Command Pickle appears and all other Borg Ships Transwarp out. Good strategy.
'Lord Nelson, since you have arrived with His Majesty's Flagship HMS Victory, the rest of His Majesty's ships are just going to head back to Gibraltar. Good luck!!'.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hahaha! I've always scratched my head at that stuff, too.
It's unfortunate that none of these specific instances ever pop because even on Elite, I found a number of them quite easy compared to other Advanced / Elite ones.
ok please explain me what other routes you have if you want to play some sport, beside
a) ask friends/other random people to play with you = in sto terms the evil ask your fleet/friend/severl chat channels
b) go to the sport place and hope someone is there already/will be there = in sto use the random queue
c) play alone = in sto terms, get a bunch of alt accounts and queue with them, since its required to start the queue mechanic wise.
oh and the hypotetical person itminns mentioned stil has a MASSIVE problem if that hypotetical person does not have any friends. that hypotetical person will always relay on luck to stumble on others to help him running whatever. you might even say that person is TRIBBLE.
oh btw, we could just remove all the elite tokens, since they dont really serve much purpose at all
would solve all those problems here
ingame: @Felisean
Like I said before, it's only getting a BZ if the devs can add it to an existing BZ... that has PvP. And we have two of those. Have fun hunting the most deadly game of all.
My character Tsin'xing
True, but the fact that it has puzzles and requires teamwork (Bridges/push buttons) to progress probably pushes people away.
While i am not in favor of such, adding a timer on the puzzles like with the button push for the assault on the Terran DS9 (forgot what it is called) could potentially make the queues a bit more accessible.
I found Binary Circuit Elite fairly easy as compared to other elite queues as well. The "puzzles" are quite simple. Back when it popped regularly pug teams used to literally run through it. Two good teams racing each other was quite the thrill no matter how you placed ^^
For some strange reason unknown to me teamwork being required to complete a queue is almost being viewed as a negative at times
There are 5 people on a team. Pretty sure this is working as designed for the TFO portion of the game.
My character Tsin'xing
Hmmm.... so if an admin of the DPS-Chat has no problems finding people...in the DPS-Chat.... everyone should have the same luck?
And you absolutly don't see why people in this chat MAY be more inclined to start a TFO with YOU than a random person joining and asking?
Thing is, it may not be hard for you to start an Elite Competitve TFO, but for most of us it is nearly impossible... and asking a friend isn't always a option, all but one of my close friends dropped sto a while ago, and i'm sure i'm not alone on this.
Also, ....socializing because it's an MMO....you see, i can get all of the other stuff through random TFOs and Battlezones, playing with others but not even touching the chat remotly, let alone Reddit....could you pls explain why this shouldn't be possible for Strategems?
I'm here to play the game, not to chat, if you like to chat, thats fine, but not everyone wants to or has the time to. Some people only play on limited time...they want to play, nothing more, nothing less.
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Online =/= Chat ... you know you can play with others in STO without talking to them, right? A REAL Team can work together in a game without talking...
Sooo... only Strategems are Elite Marks? 'Cause you know....you can get all the other Rep. 'Special' Marks way easier, must be a typo they also call them Elite *hmm*
Yea you know I’m very aware of how pathetic the situation in this title already is; hence my reluctance to accept any ideas to move the last tiny stones out of the way of people in order to get everything for doing nothing.
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I still had 10 Strategems after I bought the Impulse Engines. To me anything I buy from Competitive after a piece or two is an 'impulse
Yes, alternative content for obtaining the Elite Marks in this Reputation is a one-off. But this Reputation in and of itself was/is a one-off. It was shoe-horned in to try to satisfy some need for player competition without getting into the potential toxic zone of PVP. Its Dilithium Store pretty much sells useless cr*p.
What Cryptic should do is normalize the cost of Reputation Project equipment. Reduce Omega Ship to the price of all other Reps. Reduce Ground Equipment to 2 Elite Marks like the Space Weapon Set.
I also know that all the newer BZs limit your Away Team to you and 2 Boffs, so 3 overall. It would seem that they have the 'technology' to set up a Team of 3. Some tweaking (work) on Cryptic's part and they could re-jigger the Competitive Queues to 3x3 to get them to pop more frequently.
Sompek after 34 Rounds to start awarding them also is something worth looking at.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You make it sound like it is in anyway hard to get Strategems, the problem isn't that it's hard, the problem is it is painfully slow... either because you have to wait endlessly on an Competitive-TFO (and maybe you're out of luck and it will never pop)... or you have to convert them one by a day...
And nobody said the potential new BZ (or whatever the solution would be) should be something you don't have to 'work' for.
My comment was that teamwork is almost becoming a dirty word these days with respect to any queue completion and wasn't necessarily directly related to getting stratagems.
I acknowledge that with this rep there is an unique issue which has been mentioned ad nauseam. Strangely enough this seems to be a thread were you mention what works for yourself (in my case marks turn in) and it gets taken as a lack of respect to some person or group. This is not my intent.
If a player were to have engaged in marks turn in for the duration of this thread they already would have had enough stratagems for a full 4 piece competitive space set if you were to include the stratagems gained from reaching tier 5.
Perhaps one way in which the queues involved could be highlighted would be to include them in a featured TFO series similar to The Borg Resurgence?
Just include one ground and the one space queue in which there isn't any player versus player contact and make the queues available at all 3 difficulty levels. FTFO's seem to be a great way to (re) familiarize players to game content and get things popping.
My character Tsin'xing
As is right now, all other reps have alternatives to get the elite marks and even regular marks, EXCEPT for Competitive wargames. These alternatives exist outside the TFO system and can be played generally by a single player or large group of players. So even the solo player is able to see progress. Dyson Ground BZ is a prime example of this. Players can get Dyson marks, both normal and elite, from the TFOs or from the BZ. The overall result is the same and either way they're having to work for it. Folks are asking for an alternative to the elite marks be given similar to Dyson BZ as the prime example. Maybe they give an entirely new alternative zone, maybe they simply tick a box and let them start dropping from something like Tzenkethi BZ, maybe it's something else entirely. Far as to what form you want to theorize that alternative taking is up to you. However I have suggested a stratajama type thing, adding them to an already existing BZ such as Gamma or Tzenkethi, or them giving us new content outright. I don't care what form it takes so long as folks aren't forced purely into PVP to do it, and are able to get the marks. I would venture most folks aren't above a little grind within reason, otherwise they wouldn't be playing mmos.
Another person has already touched base on this but I am going to as well as I think it bears a bit of emphasis. Generally an admin is going to have more luck in their own channels than someone who is not an admin. If you speak in the DPS channels as an admin, or in a place where folks know you are an admin, more people are going to pay attention generally than if came from a random Joe. It's the same concept as when myself or one of the other mods say something, be it speaking as a mod or just a regular poster. folks tend to notice even if they don't agree with what I am saying. With that in mind simply because you or I might find luck in those channels does NOT automatically mean others will. If they have no luck in those channels, how do you suggest they move forward? How do you suggest they continue to be able to play the game? What are they to do when they've exhausted all other options to get the queues going? Why should they have to wait 60+ hours for ONE single reputation when no other rep has that same issue?
Folks are not asking anything be removed. Folks are not asking to have it handed to them for free. What they're asking for is simply another way to get the elite marks period. No different than when Temporal elite marks were added to the Badlands BZ. So far the only one I see here who has suggested anything be removed is some of the bunch like yourself who seem to think there is no issue.
Okay dude here's the deal. Simply because YOU have decided you don't think there is an issue does NOT automatically mean there isn't one or that you are correct. That's not how it works. If you aren't experiencing the issue, then cool, that's a good thing. However simply because YOU do not see an issue or YOU are not experiencing it does NOT mean there is no issue. I've seen quite a few extremely elitist comments in here that basically boil down to "well just keep doing the same thing and expect different results. If the the DPS leagues or similar can't or won't help you like they do me then you should just be SoL. since you're not seeing the same results as me you're doing it wrong and should have to go without. If you find waiting 60+ hours for that piece of gear unreasonable, even though no other rep makes you do it, you're just bad at the game. If you think folks should have an alternative source of elite marks for Competitive rep, you're just bad at the game. And if you criticize my logic its because you're biased against the DPS leagues or similar channels."
Show me anywhere that anyone has suggested they should just be handed the stratagems for free, because I want to see that. No one has suggested competitive queues be removed. No one has suggested it be handed out for free. No one is asking for the removal of team based content. No one is saying folks shouldn't have to work for it. What folks ARE saying is they want an alternative source for those marks to drop like how Temporal marks were added to the Badlands battlezone, or how you can get Voth Implants from the Dyson BZ or Dyson TFOs, that's it. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea folks want it handed to them for free. They're simply saying "hey Cryptic, can we get an alternative to bring this in line with other reps so we're not having to wait 60+ hours like the other reps don't make us do." Not everyone is going to take the same route you or I do in game. Simply because they farmed their Terran Marks and their Gravimetric Inducers in the Badlands battlezone vs you or I farming them in the Terran TFOs doesn't make it any less of a valid accomplishment. Whether folks farm their stuff in the battlezones or in the TFOs they still have to play the game. So this idea that they're getting it for free is 100% untrue and completely baseless. Battlezones are simply an alternative that can be done with a team or without for those who do not have a team. Good grief man.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
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