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Where're the exploration, colonization & industrialization Systems?

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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,224 Arc User
    It's literally impossible to fix all bugs in a game of this size, there's way too many ways the code lines can interact with itself in ways that are inpredictable to catch them all. It doesn't mean the devs don't know what is and isn't possible to do with the current code intentionally, of course it's just code so rewriting it is possible no one not even the devs are claiming otherwise but what they're saying is that rewriting it would such a large task as to not be worth the cost.

    Since you seem to claim to know the game better then the devs then tell what exact lines of code are causing all the bugs and how to fix those bugs, surely you can do this.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,324 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    spiritborn wrote: »
    It's literally impossible to fix all bugs in a game of this size, there's way too many ways the code lines can interact with itself in ways that are inpredictable to catch them all. It doesn't mean the devs don't know what is and isn't possible to do with the current code intentionally, of course it's just code so rewriting it is possible no one not even the devs are claiming otherwise but what they're saying is that rewriting it would such a large task as to not be worth the cost.

    Since you seem to claim to know the game better then the devs then tell what exact lines of code are causing all the bugs and how to fix those bugs, surely you can do this.

    a bug thats been around for well over 6 months is just a sign of "we dont care" 6 months...known issues, and plenty are still in effect.

    to sirsitsalot, i will refrain from further comment on bridge flying...

    to the point of the thread:

    i say we should be able to colonize a planet and create our own support system. we could do it under the ambassador line, then build up to the support aspect. frigates or shuttles to send you stuff, or you call them and they take stuff from you and store it on the planet.

    many other ideas abound, and could be made part of the game as a side option...maybe offer a few smaller perks for doing it, but dont make it as such that it makes it a mandate to do it.

    be nice for something else aside from the current daily grind and such. id be game for other things, but thats me.

    A bug that has been around for well over six months is not necessarily a sign of we don't care it means it has a lower priority than other bugs or is a very difficult bug to fix. They add the bugs in the bug report to a database of some sort that keeps track of them. I think what would help Cryptic more besides fixing their in-game bug reporting system is for the players to be as specific in the titles of their bug report threads, placing them in the correct section of the forums, and finally being specific on what they did and other info that would be useful for Cryptic to track down the bug. Do I agree with all of Cryptic's decisions throughout the years? No. Also, as spiritborn pointed out a game this size will have a lot of bugs, it comes with the territory. As for sirsitsalot's suggestion, I really do not want that in Star Trek Online. If one wants that play Eve, Stellaris, Star Citizen (whenever that comes out), etc.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,224 Arc User
    i say we should be able to colonize a planet and create our own support system. we could do it under the ambassador line, then build up to the support aspect. frigates or shuttles to send you stuff, or you call them and they take stuff from you and store it on the planet.
    Why would we, as ship captains, be colonizing a world? That isn't something ship captains get to decide, that is something larger governments get to decide. Also, why would be be dictating frigates and shuttles at said clonoy?That is civilian services, not Starfleet/KDF matters.
    I could see frigates and small craft being forwarded to a colony for security patrols, but not as bulk freighters (the Federation and Klingon empire have freighters for bulk freighter duties).

    Still it's not the duty of Starship captains to create colonies, administer them as their primary duty perhaps if it's the colony is in a location that the colony would need a large Starfleet/KDF presence (for example DS9).
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    the "few" spin offs of such actions dont warrant the rabbit up-spike in population of fleet admirals... i mean if you really want to get technical, we all should just be captains and thats it.
    There hasnt been a rabbit up-spike of Fleet Admirals.

    Like pretty much every other MMO out there, within the game's story, only YOU exist in the plot. All the other players don't exist.

    most other MMOs ive played had a simple level system, not a rank associated level system. i get your point, but the immersion is lost when there are 100s (and probably tons more) of FAs running around the galaxy.

    at most, the highest rank to apply should have been fleet captain at level 65 since we have the admiralty system and such, that jives with the fact as a FC you are taking care of your fleet, but can still take command of the seat if need be.

    This is a very old argument. Rank tied to level is a fundamental reality of this game, and at this stage, should not be tampered with. If they want everyone to be able to become a Fleet Admiral, I am ultimately fine with that. HOWEVER, it needs to mean more than just a title that goes with hitting max level. Being a FLEET Admiral means that you are responsible for all the ships and facilities in your sphere of influence. Or in this case, all the ships and Facilities that Command assigns to you. Yes, as an admiral we can command a ship. And there would be times that Command would have us do so because we have a career behind us that proves we are suited to the task in question. In that way the storylines Cryptic writes for us to play through make sense.

    At the fleet admiral level, logistics management makes perfect sense, so managing industrial installations, facilities, supply ships, ship and personnel deployments, etc that play into an overarching metagame fits.

    The way the game is laid out though, especially for the player, is that you're a fleet admiral rank only. The game treats you as though you were still a lower ranked character most of the time. We got to our rank (especially if you're playing fed) mostly because we were at war and we were fast tracked.

    The Admiralty system is honestly the best thing we have right now for really getting the whole "I'm an Admiral" feel. However, everything that you describe isn't everything that an admiral of Starfleet does. In fact, let's break down what we've usually seen the most popular admirals doing during Star Trek and the rank that they were at.

    Rear Admiral Lower Half: As this is the equivalent of Commodore, it is said they are usually in charge of a fleet of ships rather than just one.

    Rear Admiral Upper Half: The most famous character at this rank, James T. Kirk, was in charge of overseeing the training of a group of cadets.

    Vice Admiral: According to Memory Alpha, Vice Admirals were usually in charge of different things in Starfleet, from entire divisions (like communications), starbases, to whole sectors or even fleets of starships (not a fleet, FLEETS).

    Admiral: This was usually the top rank that Star Trek usually featured. If Vice Admirals were usually in charge of fleets, Admirals could be considered to be in charge of most, if not all, of Starfleet.

    I think people would be willing to go along with your plan, if you followed it closer to what Starfleet usually entailed. They don't usually get involved with everything federation related, just stuff that usually falls to them such as the expansion and defense.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Our Admirals, General's, etc. are not also Albert Speer, Columbus, or King Ferdinand
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,224 Arc User
    The political aspect of 4- and 5-star admirals (IRL their duties are essentially identical and nothing suggest that is different in Starfleet), is quite limited.

    A good example of what a Starfleet FA would do in the political arena is ask for a new ship from the council you may or may not give the budget to start collecting the info on what and how much you want, but in the end it's the politician of the Council (aka civilians) who deside what will be made.

    Exploration would be pretty much the only thing an admiral or a fleet admiral would actually deside themselves, industry and colonization would be handled by the civilian goverment with minimal input from Starfleet. I'd say even in the Klingon Empire it would be the High Council who desides things not a random KDF general.

    And yes as far as the story is conserned there's really just 1 character and the other players aren't included in the narative. Our character is suppose to be exception and prodigy not the norm.

    When it comes to Admirals handling logistics in a sense yeah, one of the duties of a high ranking admiral is to make sure that the supplies, equipment and personal are properly distributed. However they have essentially 0 control over the industrial capacity and must request supplies and equipment from the civilian goverment.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Ignore those Fleet Admirals behind the curtain in a TFO. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    the "few" spin offs of such actions dont warrant the rabbit up-spike in population of fleet admirals... i mean if you really want to get technical, we all should just be captains and thats it.
    There hasnt been a rabbit up-spike of Fleet Admirals.

    Like pretty much every other MMO out there, within the game's story, only YOU exist in the plot. All the other players don't exist.

    most other MMOs ive played had a simple level system, not a rank associated level system. i get your point, but the immersion is lost when there are 100s (and probably tons more) of FAs running around the galaxy.

    That 'rank' is just a cosmetic title. It doesn't actually mean anything.

    (heck, even the fact that we're captain of our ship, commanding hundreds of crew & specialists, doesn't mean much - 95% of the time, we're the one tightening the TRIBBLE , throwing the lever, or taking the reading. Even when we've brought our chief scientist, chief engineer, and several flunkies with us.)




    And luckily, I don't suffer from 'immersion'. I'm well aware that I'm puttering around in a pile of game mechanics & balance decisions that have nothing to do with 'realism' or 'lore' or any of that. And I'm fine with it. /shrug
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Hmm. Made a big post reply about how our titles are just cosmetic fluff (even "captain", since we're the one doing the grunt work 95% of the time, even when we have a crew of hundreds we could be telling to do it), and then an attempt to edit, ate it.

    Ah, well.


    edit: That said - this is space opera/sci-fi. Some grateful uber-rich-dude or Green Space Princess could always gift your captain a small planet or large moon, in return for saving them from that Ravenous Bugblatter Beast stampede. :D
    (not that I really want to encourage the whole "why aren't we running colonies" thing)
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,224 Arc User
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Hmm. Made a big post reply about how our titles are just cosmetic fluff (even "captain", since we're the one doing the grunt work 95% of the time, even when we have a crew of hundreds we could be telling to do it), and then an attempt to edit, ate it.

    Ah, well.


    edit: That said - this is space opera/sci-fi. Some grateful uber-rich-dude or Green Space Princess could always gift your captain a small planet or large moon, in return for saving them from that Ravenous Bugblatter Beast stampede. :D
    (not that I really want to encourage the whole "why aren't we running colonies" thing)

    Well that gifting could technically happen but such things would be inconsistent with post-TOS Trek's internal rules (yes there are narative rules for Trek and even DSC and as far as I know PIC follow those rules). TOS was bit of "anything goes but after that there's certain things that can't really happen in Trek naratively speaking and would seem like a poor attempt at trying to justify something if they were done and some local ruler gifting a planetoid to a Starfleet captain and them accepting it would break those rules.
  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    I agree with ya mate. As do most players, on all platforms.

    Its unfortunate that most conversation revolving around STO are protesting against the revenue system. -- Which, imo is really just a symptom of the producers stubborn refusal to open the coffers and revamp the ingame systems, thereby offering players greater individual control of their time &/ money investment.

    For those saying the subjects you raised "can't be done". -- It already is in Neverwinter. Save yourself from feeding the resident trolls sirsitsalot.

    "Actively involved" in tasks, makee NW a great MMO. Strongholds / Alliances destroys the fleet / armada system. Its both a personal and group journey; with 'permissions' being kept to guild admin. / ownership only (a bare minimum). Each member has their own personal set of accomplishments, that unlock items in stores, which you have access to the moment you finish orientation. Personal projects gain you currency towards guild projects. Its all streamlined, and if guild heads decide to take a hiatus from the game? -- You aren't stranded in anything, but PvP (which, Alliances take care of).

    Strongholds are their own map, and they are enormous! Bar from a couple of holdings, you can choose where to place the rest (among little communities dotted around the map, if you like). You can effectively spend as much time as you want in your Strongholds' map, its never wasted and is a whole game unto itself. Replete with its own storylines. There are always things to do. I've spent whole days working projects, doing quests, encounters, randoms, dealing with the yokels, or just repelling invasions. -- both for my personal endevours, or guild ones.

    A macro version of that core idea could be used to seed a highly desired dynamic to STO as well. Your plotted outposts and research stations, used to create a framework of interests that distinguish you from other players; and what you prospectively bring to a fleet. A limited number of instances, added to your Transwarp table have you effectively managing your own focus of exploration. Something more akin to the personal journey's we see in the TV series. -- Any planet, moon, comet, or asteroid offers a surveyable area (randomly generated) to set down and its up to you and your team to work out how to exist there. These can uncover resources, or new projects to develop.

    It doesn't matter what anyone thinks against this desire. An announcement to revamp the ingame systems and meet broadly desired gaming trends for this major IP, is expected; and would absolutely generate positivity and interest. -- calling back to 2011, it was the scope of the MMO that worked against subscription, not the subscription itself.

    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I agree with ya mate. As do most players, on all platforms.

    Its unfortunate that most conversation revolving around STO are protesting against the revenue system. -- Which, imo is really just a symptom of the producers stubborn refusal to open the coffers and revamp the ingame systems, thereby offering players greater individual control of their time &/ money investment.

    For those saying the subjects you raised "can't be done". -- It already is in Neverwinter. Save yourself from feeding the resident trolls sirsitsalot.

    "Actively involved" in tasks, makee NW a great MMO. Strongholds / Alliances destroys the fleet / armada system. Its both a personal and group journey; with 'permissions' being kept to guild admin. / ownership only (a bare minimum). Each member has their own personal set of accomplishments, that unlock items in stores, which you have access to the moment you finish orientation. Personal projects gain you currency towards guild projects. Its all streamlined, and if guild heads decide to take a hiatus from the game? -- You aren't stranded in anything, but PvP (which, Alliances take care of).

    Strongholds are their own map, and they are enormous! Bar from a couple of holdings, you can choose where to place the rest (among little communities dotted around the map, if you like). You can effectively spend as much time as you want in your Strongholds' map, its never wasted and is a whole game unto itself. Replete with its own storylines. There are always things to do. I've spent whole days working projects, doing quests, encounters, randoms, dealing with the yokels, or just repelling invasions. -- both for my personal endevours, or guild ones.

    A macro version of that core idea could be used to seed a highly desired dynamic to STO as well. Your plotted outposts and research stations, used to create a framework of interests that distinguish you from other players; and what you prospectively bring to a fleet. A limited number of instances, added to your Transwarp table have you effectively managing your own focus of exploration. Something more akin to the personal journey's we see in the TV series. -- Any planet, moon, comet, or asteroid offers a surveyable area (randomly generated) to set down and its up to you and your team to work out how to exist there. These can uncover resources, or new projects to develop.

    It doesn't matter what anyone thinks against this desire. An announcement to revamp the ingame systems and meet broadly desired gaming trends for this major IP, is expected; and would absolutely generate positivity and interest. -- calling back to 2011, it was the scope of the MMO that worked against subscription, not the subscription itself.

    Actually, I think the reason why they don't let the players dictate what they want the devs to work on is likely because Perfect World says they can't. Remember Perfect World does have some say in how the studio runs the games and so forth. They likely want them to work on stuff that will net them a high revenue and thus a higher profit.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,324 Arc User
    I agree with ya mate. As do most players, on all platforms.

    Its unfortunate that most conversation revolving around STO are protesting against the revenue system. -- Which, imo is really just a symptom of the producers stubborn refusal to open the coffers and revamp the ingame systems, thereby offering players greater individual control of their time &/ money investment.

    For those saying the subjects you raised "can't be done". -- It already is in Neverwinter. Save yourself from feeding the resident trolls sirsitsalot.

    "Actively involved" in tasks, makee NW a great MMO. Strongholds / Alliances destroys the fleet / armada system. Its both a personal and group journey; with 'permissions' being kept to guild admin. / ownership only (a bare minimum). Each member has their own personal set of accomplishments, that unlock items in stores, which you have access to the moment you finish orientation. Personal projects gain you currency towards guild projects. Its all streamlined, and if guild heads decide to take a hiatus from the game? -- You aren't stranded in anything, but PvP (which, Alliances take care of).

    Strongholds are their own map, and they are enormous! Bar from a couple of holdings, you can choose where to place the rest (among little communities dotted around the map, if you like). You can effectively spend as much time as you want in your Strongholds' map, its never wasted and is a whole game unto itself. Replete with its own storylines. There are always things to do. I've spent whole days working projects, doing quests, encounters, randoms, dealing with the yokels, or just repelling invasions. -- both for my personal endevours, or guild ones.

    A macro version of that core idea could be used to seed a highly desired dynamic to STO as well. Your plotted outposts and research stations, used to create a framework of interests that distinguish you from other players; and what you prospectively bring to a fleet. A limited number of instances, added to your Transwarp table have you effectively managing your own focus of exploration. Something more akin to the personal journey's we see in the TV series. -- Any planet, moon, comet, or asteroid offers a surveyable area (randomly generated) to set down and its up to you and your team to work out how to exist there. These can uncover resources, or new projects to develop.

    It doesn't matter what anyone thinks against this desire. An announcement to revamp the ingame systems and meet broadly desired gaming trends for this major IP, is expected; and would absolutely generate positivity and interest. -- calling back to 2011, it was the scope of the MMO that worked against subscription, not the subscription itself.

    Those who disagree with siritsalot are not trolls.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
This discussion has been closed.