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🔥🔥🔥 "The Year of Klingon" 🔥🔥🔥

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  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    I hope this reads as true & Cryptic has good intentions towards this pursuit with consideration rather than just give it lip service & shine on.

    There's still plenty of older missions, content, Cryptic took offline that we have yet to see return already.

    Cryptic spoke about when ceasing Foundry how it would free up resources on other things, but there's been a lot of condensing & outright removal overall & fewer new added & introduced story-wise.

    Wait & see, & hope this turns out to be a well done addition by Cryptic for the next year or so.
  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    New and revamped Klingon content is welcome on general principles. That said, I hope they devs aren't pressured to push it out the door without proper testing.
    eazzie wrote: »
    Players though without Twitter or FB won't get to see the Stovokor Saturday content (until a player posts it here. IF a player decides to post to here that is)
    I'm sure folks will be posting it here, as well as Reddit and other places, but will suggest on the next Ten-Forward that the relevant blog post be updated with that content as it's released.
  • aurigas7aurigas7 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    More or less by accident I stumbled across the news. Currently downloading updates. Is my beautiful Vor'cha already updated ?
    Vorcha_forward.jpg
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,529 Arc User
    aurigas7 wrote: »
    More or less by accident I stumbled across the news. Currently downloading updates. Is my beautiful Vor'cha already updated ?

    Unfortunately you have misunderstood. This is not something live yet; it is something coming throughout this year.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • imffsimffs Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    "Captains…welcome to the Year of Klingon.
    Cautious optimism.

    The subtlety of Klingons is their sense of honor. Versus how they employ it.

    Oh nevermind. It's not subtle. It's jingoism.

    I genuinely welcome this content.

  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,540 Arc User
    I have a stupid smile on my face right now because of this news.

    There are some potentially ominous undertones, but I'm excited to see KDF hopefully getting some of the long-overdue love and attention it deserves. (T6 Vo'quv and a First City layout revamp being among the top of my wishlist.)
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,529 Arc User
    szerontzur wrote: »
    There are some potentially ominous undertones,

    What do you have in mind?

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • ishigami2ishigami2 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    Aside from the makeovers of the ships this does little for me.
    I see little point in playing Klingon unless you have been playing Klingon for a long time.
    As their unlocks are not cross-faction it is basically splitting your Zen and hence progress to me.

    I once thought I could get into it and gave it a shoot at one of the recruitment events but I gave up half way through the episodes (at lvl65 though) as I had no ships and therefore very limited traits, no gear and frankly all that re-grinding of reputation, crafting, admirality and whatnot is so utterly unappealing to me.

    I rather put the stuff I earn into my Feds.
  • shadowkoshshadowkosh Member Posts: 1,560 Arc User
    How about a legendary Klingon ship bundle
    szerontzur wrote: »
    I have a stupid smile on my face right now because of this news.

    There are some potentially ominous undertones, but I'm excited to see KDF hopefully getting some of the long-overdue love and attention it deserves. (T6 Vo'quv and a First City layout revamp being among the top of my wishlist.)

    I like to see a Klingon legendary ship bundle and definitely a revamp of first city
  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    Lol! "They're out of ideas" tho! :D

    Seriously, once upon a time George Lucas said much the same thing. Met Dave Filoni and CGCG, then the hungry public got The Clone Wars, Rebels to Mandalorian since.. Its never wise to take things too literally, when producers are openly looking for a muse!

    Mary Chieffo's wonderful L'Rell is one of the greatest highlights of Star Trek, ever! The whole Klingon arc in Discovery was, at minimum, "very interesting", ramped up to a whole new level, when Boreth was unveiled. Picard will change things for the Romulans and Tal Shiar (I'm sure). Discovery S3 is inbound too, and we have only smatterings of details there. There are a squintillion, fascinating and original stories in Star Trek; I'm sure of as well. Much that draws on the essential nature of the constructed universe, in a critical renaissance, everyone should be looking forward to. -- I am.

    Keep an open mind about what a core group of 25 ladies & gentlemen can actually achieve. ;)
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,632 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    Lol! "They're out of ideas" tho! :D

    Seriously, once upon a time George Lucas said much the same thing. Met Dave Filoni and CGCG, then the hungry public got The Clone Wars, Rebels to Mandalorian since.. Its never wise to take things too literally, when producers are openly looking for a muse!

    Mary Chieffo's wonderful L'Rell is one of the greatest highlights of Star Trek, ever! The whole Klingon arc in Discovery was, at minimum, "very interesting", ramped up to a whole new level, when Boreth was unveiled. Picard will change things for the Romulans and Tal Shiar (I'm sure). Discovery S3 is inbound too, and we have only smatterings of details there. There are a squintillion, fascinating and original stories in Star Trek; I'm sure of as well. Much that draws on the essential nature of the constructed universe, in a critical renaissance, everyone should be looking forward to. -- I am.

    Keep an open mind about what a core group of 25 ladies & gentlemen can actually achieve. ;)

    "Changing" is not actually a good thing, "expanding" and "building upon" is the way to go. Arbitrary changes just dilute the whole thing without improving anything. That is especially true in a fictional work spanning decades and having actual identifiable historical periods and well-established working lore like Star Trek does.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,764 Arc User
    Cautiously optimistic. While I'm not a fan of the J'ula so-called "story content" that currently exists in the game, I hope that they will improve what already exists and expand upon it in a way that is more interesting and engaging.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 3,074 Arc User
    eazzie wrote: »
    Players though without Twitter or FB won't get to see the Stovokor Saturday content (until a player posts it here. IF a player decides to post to here that is)

    You do not need a Twitter or Facebook account to see these posts on those social media platforms.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    Lol! "They're out of ideas" tho! :D

    Seriously, once upon a time George Lucas said much the same thing. Met Dave Filoni and CGCG, then the hungry public got The Clone Wars, Rebels to Mandalorian since.. Its never wise to take things too literally, when producers are openly looking for a muse!

    Mary Chieffo's wonderful L'Rell is one of the greatest highlights of Star Trek, ever! The whole Klingon arc in Discovery was, at minimum, "very interesting", ramped up to a whole new level, when Boreth was unveiled. Picard will change things for the Romulans and Tal Shiar (I'm sure). Discovery S3 is inbound too, and we have only smatterings of details there. There are a squintillion, fascinating and original stories in Star Trek; I'm sure of as well. Much that draws on the essential nature of the constructed universe, in a critical renaissance, everyone should be looking forward to. -- I am.

    Keep an open mind about what a core group of 25 ladies & gentlemen can actually achieve. ;)

    "Changing" is not actually a good thing, "expanding" and "building upon" is the way to go. Arbitrary changes just dilute the whole thing without improving anything. That is especially true in a fictional work spanning decades and having actual identifiable historical periods and well-established working lore like Star Trek does.

    You're splitting hairs, man. -- "Expanding" and "building upon" are also "changes / changing". -- the rest of your post is an attempt to marginalize, which is really just avoiding stating an opinion. -- coz we know what they are often "actually worth", in reality. Don't we?

    Theres a literal tonne and a half I could draw upon, to illustrate a point and firmly drive it home. I'm not gonna do that. -- Film, games, TV.. its not about consensus; but is about "what it means to you".

    I don't have any problem with Kelvin-verse and Discovery conceptual producers, attempting to bridge a gap between the original concept Klingons with the technical compromise (of the largely same look), we are all familiar with up to that point, anyway. It was well done, and good to see. -- By Discovery S2 we see the same Klingons with hair and they do very much resemble the familiarity many cling to. That was a thought provoking pick-up, by itself.

    All this conveys to me, is that these early Klingons were in some dystopian state of their own, struggling with racial identity, in a changing universe; not unlike humanity had, merely here on Earth, with a few nationalities. Seems almost pathetic in comparison. -- It's powerful depiction, nonetheless.

    Unlike humanity, which is relatively new to the galactic stage (..and will be seen that way, by some, for hundreds of years, yet). The Klingons have seen more than one "Federation" was "the point", I would say; most utterly missed about Discovery? -- It hasn't always worked for them. In fact, its often meant their persection.

    Then we discover, the Klingons are custodians to the most closely guarded secret in the universe as everyone knows it! One not even their people are privvy to.. Boreth.
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,245 Arc User
    I'll believe it when I see it. They announce something like this with no details means nothing.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    Lol! "They're out of ideas" tho! :D
    Doing a visual revamp of existing content isn't a new idea, its just making what already exists look better.

    And the "out of ideas" comment Cryptic made was a comment about narrative, not graphical revamps, which Cryptic talks at length of wanting to do for pretty much everything from before like Delta Rising.
  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    Lol! "They're out of ideas" tho! :D
    Doing a visual revamp of existing content isn't a new idea, its just making what already exists look better.

    And the "out of ideas" comment Cryptic made was a comment about narrative, not graphical revamps, which Cryptic talks at length of wanting to do for pretty much everything from before like Delta Rising.

    There ya go again, not making any sense.. the blog literally states in the first two lines that its a narrative deep dive they aren't ready to divulge yet; and that alongside that will be a visual and gameplay revamp of all relevant content, to date, spanning the rest of the year (or more).
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    There ya go again, not making any sense.. the blog literally states in the first two lines that its a narrative deep dive they aren't ready to divulge yet; and that alongside that will be a visual and gameplay revamp of all relevant content, to date, spanning the rest of the year (or more).
    And again, as I stated when you originally asked about it on another thread, Cryptic said they were running out of ideas BEFORE all these new Trek shows started coming out, but the new shows game them a lot to work with.

    The narrative is a continuation of the J'Ula arc, aka the Discovery arc, aka something from the new shows.
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    I hope, while they're at it, that they introduce the Disco Klink stuff and player skins...

    That would be nifty...
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    Since its going to be julie and the disco klinks this might not be more than just a slight rewording of scripts to suggest that the lead role is in the KDF as the disco story lumbers on.

    Voice acting costs should be cheaper though, just drag in folk off the street and make them gag violently as they read the lines.

    I realise they don't like editing blogposts but they should really consider collating those twatter and farcebook previews a day or so after they're first shown.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,179 Arc User
    sthe91 wrote: »
    eazzie wrote: »
    Players though without Twitter or FB won't get to see the Stovokor Saturday content (until a player posts it here. IF a player decides to post to here that is)

    You do not need a Twitter or Facebook account to see these posts on those social media platforms.


    No, but there is no reason to encourage them to use these terrible platforms either.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,295 Arc User
    They don't even correct errors in News Blogs as it is.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • warmonger360warmonger360 Member Posts: 406 Arc User
    so, does this mean K'tinga will be ignored and NOT appear proportional to the STMP version, meaning it'll remain as it is now? too thick nacelles/engineering hull top to bottom, too short/thick neck
    WE SURVIVE!

    aut vincere aut mori pro imperio
    either to conquer or to die for the Empire
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,632 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    Lol! "They're out of ideas" tho! :D

    Seriously, once upon a time George Lucas said much the same thing. Met Dave Filoni and CGCG, then the hungry public got The Clone Wars, Rebels to Mandalorian since.. Its never wise to take things too literally, when producers are openly looking for a muse!

    Mary Chieffo's wonderful L'Rell is one of the greatest highlights of Star Trek, ever! The whole Klingon arc in Discovery was, at minimum, "very interesting", ramped up to a whole new level, when Boreth was unveiled. Picard will change things for the Romulans and Tal Shiar (I'm sure). Discovery S3 is inbound too, and we have only smatterings of details there. There are a squintillion, fascinating and original stories in Star Trek; I'm sure of as well. Much that draws on the essential nature of the constructed universe, in a critical renaissance, everyone should be looking forward to. -- I am.

    Keep an open mind about what a core group of 25 ladies & gentlemen can actually achieve. ;)

    "Changing" is not actually a good thing, "expanding" and "building upon" is the way to go. Arbitrary changes just dilute the whole thing without improving anything. That is especially true in a fictional work spanning decades and having actual identifiable historical periods and well-established working lore like Star Trek does.

    You're splitting hairs, man. -- "Expanding" and "building upon" are also "changes / changing". -- the rest of your post is an attempt to marginalize, which is really just avoiding stating an opinion. -- coz we know what they are often "actually worth", in reality. Don't we?

    Theres a literal tonne and a half I could draw upon, to illustrate a point and firmly drive it home. I'm not gonna do that. -- Film, games, TV.. its not about consensus; but is about "what it means to you".

    I don't have any problem with Kelvin-verse and Discovery conceptual producers, attempting to bridge a gap between the original concept Klingons with the technical compromise (of the largely same look), we are all familiar with up to that point, anyway. It was well done, and good to see. -- By Discovery S2 we see the same Klingons with hair and they do very much resemble the familiarity many cling to. That was a thought provoking pick-up, by itself.

    All this conveys to me, is that these early Klingons were in some dystopian state of their own, struggling with racial identity, in a changing universe; not unlike humanity had, merely here on Earth, with a few nationalities. Seems almost pathetic in comparison. -- It's powerful depiction, nonetheless.

    Unlike humanity, which is relatively new to the galactic stage (..and will be seen that way, by some, for hundreds of years, yet). The Klingons have seen more than one "Federation" was "the point", I would say; most utterly missed about Discovery? -- It hasn't always worked for them. In fact, its often meant their persection.

    Then we discover, the Klingons are custodians to the most closely guarded secret in the universe as everyone knows it! One not even their people are privvy to.. Boreth.

    No, there is a distinct difference between arbitrary changes for the sake of change and building upon what is already there. The difference is whether it integrates with the original works or flies in the face of them and causes discontinuities.

    And just to set the record straight, I was talking about a general rule of writing sequels, prequels, or other period pieces set in a fictional world, not making a direct reference to DSC (though DSC, despite being a reasonably good show on its own, suffers from that discontinuity and dilution problem tremendously, to the point that the fanbase is fragmented into mutually hostile camps).

    Since you have brought it up, DSC fell into that trap because the people at the top despised TOS, in fact Moonves disliked science fiction in general and hates Star Trek even more (which is why he killed ENT the first chance he got, even though it was still well-watched at the time. The chief set designer had nothing but contempt for TOS too, calling the TOS ship "the cardboard Enterprise" and went on to say that THE ONLY Star Trek that was not visual trash was "The Undiscovered Country". In the design room they had big signs on the wars that screamed in bold letters "NO ROUND ENGINES!!!". None of that idiocy is good for doing a period piece like a show set only ten years before a well-known well-documented time like TOS.

    Anyway, period pieces go off the rails when you have someone who lets their own prejudices get in the way of the production. Say the same kind of things that happened to DSC happened to a remake of "The Great Gatsby" (yes, the movie is not a series, but it is a well known historical piece), the executive meeting would go something like this:
    "OK, we are doing The Great Gatsby set in 1925 Chicago. But we have to punch it up for modern audiences so there are a few changes needed. Wardrobe, ditch the pin-striped suits, I hate them and they just look too old, and while you are at it dump the string-mop miniskirt things you have the broads wearing, we don't what someone gettin' the idea we're sexists or something. Lets put them in Goth gear and grunge, it is old so everyone will get the idea it is historical, and the oldies stations are playing music from that time so it is nostalgic.

    Oh, and we'll give'em cell phones. Modern viewers wont know that those windup things on the walls are supposed to be phones and will be confused when the actors stick those salt shakers on their ear and yell at the boxes. Same goes with those fancy filigree ones on the desks, no one uses wired phones anymore and they just look silly. And while you are at it ditch the incandescent lights, they are too depressing looking and I hate the yellowish light they put out.

    Chicago is fine for location, but it is flat and dull, so lets stick it on the side of a mountain with waterfalls and soaring glass bridges, with a bay full of tall sailing ships. It will be so spectacular the viewers will eat it up and they will know from the name that it is Chicago. Besides, most of 'em have probably never been there anyway so they wont notice the difference."

    Any fictional setting that has gone on for so long with different teams of writers over that span becomes in effect a "shared world setting" between the various shows and writing for one of those is a lot different from doing freeform one-off movie remakes. If it is treated as if it had a real history with attention paid to the style and zeitgeist of the various periods in that world it makes the whole setting stronger and deeper.

    Ignoring that in-setting heritage weakens the whole thing, making it shallower and less interesting overall, especially with Star Trek where the core fans are such sticklers for continuity and blast anything that does not make sense for the setting.

    Another example is a behind the scenes look at a shared world book series called "1632: The Ring Of Fire". In a nutshell, a spherical area containing a 1990s era small-to-medium sized Appalachian town, some coal mines, and a power plant was swapped with a sphere of the same size in Thuringia (it is in Germany) back in time (1632). The stories were about how the modern and the historical stuff interacted.

    At least one of the books has a forward written by the original author (Eric Flint) where he talked about managing the shared world and had a funny anecdote about some of the really weird contributions he had to turn away. Contributing authors would sometimes get very crazy in what they tried to add in, like for instance ninjas who were inexplicably present, a bunch of fully equipped SEALs from a train that just happened to be passing through when the transfer happened, and other silliness that would have detracted from or even completely derailed the original concept.

    Anyway, that is what I meant by arbitrary change is not always good, that respecting the original setting and building upon it is better for the whole fictional universe than coming in and changing things on a whim.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    Don't think for one minute that this means that FACTIONS will again start meaning anything more than origin stories

    And don't think for one minute that this means that PvP is going to be coming back into development focus.

    After this year-long overhaul to the Klingons, I fully expect the game to shift completely to a single faction. The Alliance. And when that happens, I see them making it where Federation and Klingon faction characters will need to join the Alliance just as Romulan characters had to join either the UFP or the KDF.

    After that, it will go right back to being one-size-fits-all content, regardless of Origin Story.

    This is what I'm really expecting to happen. Cryptic has been working toward this all along, simply because they can't handle contention between the factions. If you look back in the story arcs, the Alliance starts at the end of the Cardassian arc, when the borg attack DS9. It should be the starting episode of the Borg arc.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    Don't think for one minute that this means that FACTIONS will again start meaning anything more than origin stories

    And don't think for one minute that this means that PvP is going to be coming back into development focus.

    After this year-long overhaul to the Klingons, I fully expect the game to shift completely to a single faction. The Alliance. And when that happens, I see them making it where Federation and Klingon faction characters will need to join the Alliance just as Romulan characters had to join either the UFP or the KDF.

    After that, it will go right back to being one-size-fits-all content, regardless of Origin Story.

    This is what I'm really expecting to happen. Cryptic has been working toward this all along, simply because they can't handle contention between the factions.

    I'm actually fine with that. One of the biggest piece of legacy tech that is getting in the way of them really moving things forward, in my opinion, is the faction system. It is what prevented the Romulans from being a PvP faction of its own, because it would have required a core system overhaul to allow for three sides to the war, so they found a way to shoehorn it into the existing two-faction system. But really, since PvP development and maintenance has gone by the wayside, and the narrative has shifted to everyone being on the same side, what is the point in keeping the 2-faction system, going forward? It makes sense to mechanically set the origin stories apart from each other, as they need to start off isolated. Keeping the 2 warring factions intact to allow for that dark page in recent Trek history makes sense, with the existing PvP mechanic intact for those who want to mess around with it. But with the official formation of the alliance, the same kind of faction switch can move our characters forward into the Alliance era. One faction. One narrative pathway.

    And what I am about to say may upset some people, but I think that after this Klingon overhaul, all new ships commissioned during the Alliance Era need to be ALLIANCE ships, with a new design them that is not beholden to Starfleet, Klingon, Romulan or Dominion aesthetics, but something entirely new. There could be elements that suggest cooperative design between the Allies. All the origin Story civilizations are MEMBERS of the alliance, which is a new organization all together.
    If you look back in the story arcs, the Alliance starts at the end of the Cardassian arc, when the borg attack DS9. It should be the starting episode of the Borg arc.

    I'm all for maintaining the loose alliance of that timeframe. The joint-operations initiative was more of a trial-run. But it was the Iconian War arc that by all rights truly brought everyone together with the realization that the known galaxy is vulnerable to extra-galactic AND extra-dimensional threats, with the ripple effect of the whole temporal cold war element thrown in to good effect. In the face of that, unity is the most advantageous position for all parties concerned...

    I still maintain that forward-going development should include new gameplay loops that bolster the idea of an expanding Alliance through exploration, colonization and industrialization with an updated meta-game that can trigger all sorts of player-involving scenarios based on a wide variety of factors. These "living galaxy simulation" elements would provide meaningful engagements for all players in the Alliance era even during the long periods between story arc mission content.

    We're this big alliance, now. But what do we do in terms of alliance interests when we are not blowing up and disintegrating the next bigbad to pose the latest existential threat to the galaxy? If we are going to be expected to run the same loops over and over, they might as well have meaning behind them that extends beyond just one's own personal experiences. The exact form these loops would take is open for debate...

    Of course, it likely won't happen. PWE likes the status quo too much for them to back anything that steps outside of the lines they have arbitrarily drawn. But I am still going to champion these sorts of things on the slim, off-hand chance that someone who makes decisions at PWE eventually comes along and decides to explore STO's un-pursued potential...
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    There ya go again, not making any sense.. the blog literally states in the first two lines that its a narrative deep dive they aren't ready to divulge yet; and that alongside that will be a visual and gameplay revamp of all relevant content, to date, spanning the rest of the year (or more).
    And again, as I stated when you originally asked about it on another thread, Cryptic said they were running out of ideas BEFORE all these new Trek shows started coming out, but the new shows game them a lot to work with.

    The narrative is a continuation of the J'Ula arc, aka the Discovery arc, aka something from the new shows.

    Lol! And again. You seem to willfully take things said "far too literally". (See? I can do this too!). The rhetorical questions asked of you, are an offer to make you check yourself, BEFORE you continue forcing a discussion down incoherant paths. Lol!

    It seems you hadn't noted that Star Trek offers an enormous amount to work with, beyond the various series that serve as inspiration. Even the recent ones. -- Its what keeps series coming, as well as episodic content in games like this.

    In fact, theres so much to draw upon that one is, understandibly, going to have trouble discerning "where to start"; even before, "how to do it".

    Which brings conclusion to "the point": I'm quite sure, that for the games producers (gamesdev, leads & admin). Its all about working within a budget. This recent anmouncement only tells me that they have secured a big enough one to crack the game open again; not merely patch it or try bolt-ons. -- budgets none of us are privy to, and thus, cannot speak with any authority.
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Lol! "They're out of ideas" tho! :D

    Seriously, once upon a time George Lucas said much the same thing. Met Dave Filoni and CGCG, then the hungry public got The Clone Wars, Rebels to Mandalorian since.. Its never wise to take things too literally, when producers are openly looking for a muse!

    Mary Chieffo's wonderful L'Rell is one of the greatest highlights of Star Trek, ever! The whole Klingon arc in Discovery was, at minimum, "very interesting", ramped up to a whole new level, when Boreth was unveiled. Picard will change things for the Romulans and Tal Shiar (I'm sure). Discovery S3 is inbound too, and we have only smatterings of details there. There are a squintillion, fascinating and original stories in Star Trek; I'm sure of as well. Much that draws on the essential nature of the constructed universe, in a critical renaissance, everyone should be looking forward to. -- I am.

    Keep an open mind about what a core group of 25 ladies & gentlemen can actually achieve. ;)

    "Changing" is not actually a good thing, "expanding" and "building upon" is the way to go. Arbitrary changes just dilute the whole thing without improving anything. That is especially true in a fictional work spanning decades and having actual identifiable historical periods and well-established working lore like Star Trek does.

    You're splitting hairs, man. -- "Expanding" and "building upon" are also "changes / changing". -- the rest of your post is an attempt to marginalize, which is really just avoiding stating an opinion. -- coz we know what they are often "actually worth", in reality. Don't we?

    Theres a literal tonne and a half I could draw upon, to illustrate a point and firmly drive it home. I'm not gonna do that. -- Film, games, TV.. its not about consensus; but is about "what it means to you".

    I don't have any problem with Kelvin-verse and Discovery conceptual producers, attempting to bridge a gap between the original concept Klingons with the technical compromise (of the largely same look), we are all familiar with up to that point, anyway. It was well done, and good to see. -- By Discovery S2 we see the same Klingons with hair and they do very much resemble the familiarity many cling to. That was a thought provoking pick-up, by itself.

    All this conveys to me, is that these early Klingons were in some dystopian state of their own, struggling with racial identity, in a changing universe; not unlike humanity had, merely here on Earth, with a few nationalities. Seems almost pathetic in comparison. -- It's powerful depiction, nonetheless.

    Unlike humanity, which is relatively new to the galactic stage (..and will be seen that way, by some, for hundreds of years, yet). The Klingons have seen more than one "Federation" was "the point", I would say; most utterly missed about Discovery? -- It hasn't always worked for them. In fact, its often meant their persection.

    Then we discover, the Klingons are custodians to the most closely guarded secret in the universe as everyone knows it! One not even their people are privvy to.. Boreth.

    No, there is a distinct difference between arbitrary changes for the sake of change and building upon what is already there. The difference is whether it integrates with the original works or flies in the face of them and causes discontinuities.

    And just to set the record straight, I was talking about a general rule of writing sequels, prequels, or other period pieces set in a fictional world, not making a direct reference to DSC (though DSC, despite being a reasonably good show on its own, suffers from that discontinuity and dilution problem tremendously, to the point that the fanbase is fragmented into mutually hostile camps).

    Since you have brought it up, DSC fell into that trap because the people at the top despised TOS, in fact Moonves disliked science fiction in general and hates Star Trek even more (which is why he killed ENT the first chance he got, even though it was still well-watched at the time. The chief set designer had nothing but contempt for TOS too, calling the TOS ship "the cardboard Enterprise" and went on to say that THE ONLY Star Trek that was not visual trash was "The Undiscovered Country". In the design room they had big signs on the wars that screamed in bold letters "NO ROUND ENGINES!!!". None of that idiocy is good for doing a period piece like a show set only ten years before a well-known well-documented time like TOS.

    Anyway, period pieces go off the rails when you have someone who lets their own prejudices get in the way of the production. Say the same kind of things that happened to DSC happened to a remake of "The Great Gatsby" (yes, the movie is not a series, but it is a well known historical piece), the executive meeting would go something like this:
    "OK, we are doing The Great Gatsby set in 1925 Chicago. But we have to punch it up for modern audiences so there are a few changes needed. Wardrobe, ditch the pin-striped suits, I hate them and they just look too old, and while you are at it dump the string-mop miniskirt things you have the broads wearing, we don't what someone gettin' the idea we're sexists or something. Lets put them in Goth gear and grunge, it is old so everyone will get the idea it is historical, and the oldies stations are playing music from that time so it is nostalgic.

    Oh, and we'll give'em cell phones. Modern viewers wont know that those windup things on the walls are supposed to be phones and will be confused when the actors stick those salt shakers on their ear and yell at the boxes. Same goes with those fancy filigree ones on the desks, no one uses wired phones anymore and they just look silly. And while you are at it ditch the incandescent lights, they are too depressing looking and I hate the yellowish light they put out.

    Chicago is fine for location, but it is flat and dull, so lets stick it on the side of a mountain with waterfalls and soaring glass bridges, with a bay full of tall sailing ships. It will be so spectacular the viewers will eat it up and they will know from the name that it is Chicago. Besides, most of 'em have probably never been there anyway so they wont notice the difference."

    Any fictional setting that has gone on for so long with different teams of writers over that span becomes in effect a "shared world setting" between the various shows and writing for one of those is a lot different from doing freeform one-off movie remakes. If it is treated as if it had a real history with attention paid to the style and zeitgeist of the various periods in that world it makes the whole setting stronger and deeper.

    Ignoring that in-setting heritage weakens the whole thing, making it shallower and less interesting overall, especially with Star Trek where the core fans are such sticklers for continuity and blast anything that does not make sense for the setting.

    Another example is a behind the scenes look at a shared world book series called "1632: The Ring Of Fire". In a nutshell, a spherical area containing a 1990s era small-to-medium sized Appalachian town, some coal mines, and a power plant was swapped with a sphere of the same size in Thuringia (it is in Germany) back in time (1632). The stories were about how the modern and the historical stuff interacted.

    At least one of the books has a forward written by the original author (Eric Flint) where he talked about managing the shared world and had a funny anecdote about some of the really weird contributions he had to turn away. Contributing authors would sometimes get very crazy in what they tried to add in, like for instance ninjas who were inexplicably present, a bunch of fully equipped SEALs from a train that just happened to be passing through when the transfer happened, and other silliness that would have detracted from or even completely derailed the original concept.

    Anyway, that is what I meant by arbitrary change is not always good, that respecting the original setting and building upon it is better for the whole fictional universe than coming in and changing things on a whim.

    Ok. Politely, please condense your thoughts. -- All I see here is your own extreme display of biases, among sweaping generalizations, obfuscated in textual diarrhea. -- with no context.

    Your nitpicking in broad strokes would require me to exercise telepathy, and I'm not doing that, today. 😅

    Its not that I disagree with your point about "arbitrary change" its that I'm baffled by your interpretation of it here. Thus, I conclude you are merely labouring the point of your own biases and, lol!
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    I'm actually fine with that. One of the biggest piece of legacy tech that is getting in the way of them really moving things forward, in my opinion, is the faction system. It is what prevented the Romulans from being a PvP faction of its own, because it would have required a core system overhaul to allow for three sides to the war, so they found a way to shoehorn it into the existing two-faction system. But really, since PvP development and maintenance has gone by the wayside, and the narrative has shifted to everyone being on the same side, what is the point in keeping the 2-faction system, going forward? It makes sense to mechanically set the origin stories apart from each other, as they need to start off isolated. Keeping the 2 warring factions intact to allow for that dark page in recent Trek history makes sense, with the existing PvP mechanic intact for those who want to mess around with it. But with the official formation of the alliance, the same kind of faction switch can move our characters forward into the Alliance era. One faction. One narrative pathway.

    Is that why, though? -- The impression I got was that live service / streaming games don't offer a minimum standard of acceptable PvP. So if it feels shoehorned in (taking the term used), then perhaps its because those limitations exist?

    In all honesty, while I don't claim that developing a multi-faction PvP system is easy by any means. I do feel like the trend in games, over the last 4yrs; feel like rehashing the same hurdles of 20yrs ago. When dialup was being phased out. -- funny as that image implies, I'm serious too..

    UI lag, input lag.. sure we gamers can accomodate, some even will. -- but I can't and I love PvP. I also often wonder if others pick up on this and feel as I do; or maybe I expect too much. But we've had better, which a majority of older gamers must admit.

    So, what I'm saying (if I'm saying anything) is that perhaps theres no point? Maybe a fully fledged 5G will change things, but thats years away from reality, even if you're on 5G now. -- These companies are asking us, consumers, to shift to 5G. If itvwas truly a global standard, then that shift would be automatic. -- You'd get a notification from your provider that a new device is incoming, the change is global and all other forms of broadband shut down. Along with whatever, adjustments to your billing cycle. Bing-bada-boom!
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    I understood it. @phoenixc#0738 explained it well. They don't 'need' to condense anything. If you cannot be bothered to engage with what they wrote then don't.
    "conceptual producers, attempting to bridge a gap between the original concept Klingons with the technical compromise (of the largely same look), we are all familiar with up to that point, anyway. It was well done, and good to see. -- By Discovery S2 we see the same Klingons with hair and they do very much resemble the familiarity many cling to. That was a thought provoking pick-up, by itself."

    They didn't attempt to bridge any gap. They half assed it from beginning to end. They know it. The Trekkies know it and even the casual fans know it (at least the ones not fooling themselves). After the backlash over their absurd choice of using halloween Orc rubber masks for a already established iconic race. The self proclaimed 'experts' of all that is Trek panicked and tried to undo some of the cosmetic changes of the orc mask designs. They gave them some hair on top of the rubber masks and removed some of the layers so their actors lips could emote a little more.

    S2 Discovery Orcs are still Orcs. The only difference is they got 'upgraded' to later looking like Uruk-Hai. That isn't a improvement. Discovery KlingOrcs are nothing but diarrhea with no forethought. They were spawned from the backsides of novice producers that were left with the keys to Trek fluff.
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    "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
    "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
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