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Battlezone issues

I'm just suggesting that with the amount of spawn camping and one shotting of t-rexs, the ultra slow space BZ pace, and then the aspect of the tzenkethi one anything from someone completely oblivious to their mechanics or just one person trolling a map making it impossible to play. Plus as slow paced as it is and the lower amounts of dilithium it really should lose the pressing F and waiting time gate and be replaced with some actual combat.

So Cryptic lets take these zones and make them BATTLE zones mkay! Yeah lets see like fleets of ships battling for those areas and quick interacts over long interacts and hardly any combat/battles. So with the question asked what with Picard would I like to see well that ending where there were two fleets possibly about to start fighting that is what we should be seeing for these territory control type of maps. Also pacing that doesn't allow for spawn camping and one shotting final bosses either. Plus another suggestion is doing like some game companies do and having partner program where hands on day to day issues are handled and dealt with to head off problems like we face now that just have manifested over time.

Comments

  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,715 Arc User
    On this the best pacing by far is Kobali. The Vaaduar have a pretty quick respawn rate.

    As for one shotting most everything. Yeah, don't expect that to change. God Mode is the normal for STO.
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,770 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    On this the best pacing by far is Kobali. The Vaaduar have a pretty quick respawn rate.

    As for one shotting most everything. Yeah, don't expect that to change. God Mode is the normal for STO.

    Yup, pretty much.

    As for the BZ's, they spawn more enemies as numbers increase in the area in most cases. The issues the Dev's have is balancing maps so they can be handled by a small number with MK XII equipment. If they make them more challenging folk complain because it's taking more than 5 seconds to destroy a ship.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    edited March 29
    Dyson Battlezone could do with the area where the V-Rex spawns locked out so you can't camp on top of him of better yet and I suggested this before return all players to the command centre and everyone starts from there to make it fair.

    Of course "if" Cryptic ever revisited Dyson Battlezone to try to stop camping you know they'll take the easy/lazy route and just nerf the rewards so the zone dies a death
    Post edited by ussvaliant#6064 on
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 8,792 Arc User
    edited March 30
    Personally, I think that the Undine Space Zone and the Badlands are very well done and I quite enjoy both of them. You will see a lot more 'one shots' in the Undine Zone though.. that zone is very tame difficulty wise. The Badlands is a bit more of a fight, especially if you get a large group of Terran Ships. I'll agree though, that some of the 'time gates' like sitting next to the generator waiting for the bar to fill up is discouraging.

    The Dyson Ground Zone is one I still don't get. People love this awful zone and I could never figure out why. I avoid it like the plague because to me it's an insane waste of time. If you don't know exactly where to be and exactly when to be there.. you get nothing. Total waste of time.. I hate it.

    The Gamma BZ I don't even count. It's not a battle zone and it's not fun. Same with the TZ Zone, that's just a place you go when you have an endeavor that makes you go there. I never understood why after making 2 really good zones like the Undine and the Badlands.. that they decided to change the formula for the next two zones. The Gamma and TZ Battle Zones are painfully awful. I would hate to see them make too many changes to the Undine or Badlands Zone though.. I think they're quite cool myself.

    I do also enjoy the Kobali Zone.. the fast respawn makes sure you always have targets to fight, and I like that.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 50,224 Arc User
    The Gamma BZ I don't even count. It's not a battle zone and it's not fun. Same with the TZ Zone, that's just a place you go when you have an endeavor that makes you go there. I never understood why after making 2 really good zones like the Undine and the Badlands.. that they decided to change the formula for the next two zones. The Gamma and TZ Battle Zones are painfully awful. I would hate to see them make too many changes to the Undine or Badlands Zone though.. I think they're quite cool myself.

    The Tzenkethi Zone is close to what the Badlands and Undine are, but the problem is that instead of having ships come in recap the zone, they just flip on their own with no warning.

    Gamma... they tried to make an entire quadrant map a battlezone where you queue in for specific actions in specific sectors. Didn't really work very well I think.
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,715 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The Gamma BZ I don't even count. It's not a battle zone and it's not fun. Same with the TZ Zone, that's just a place you go when you have an endeavor that makes you go there. I never understood why after making 2 really good zones like the Undine and the Badlands.. that they decided to change the formula for the next two zones. The Gamma and TZ Battle Zones are painfully awful. I would hate to see them make too many changes to the Undine or Badlands Zone though.. I think they're quite cool myself.

    The Tzenkethi Zone is close to what the Badlands and Undine are, but the problem is that instead of having ships come in recap the zone, they just flip on their own with no warning.

    Gamma... they tried to make an entire quadrant map a battlezone where you queue in for specific actions in specific sectors. Didn't really work very well I think.

    The Gamma BZ works for me. Especially with the extra participation reward, the more you do, the more marks and dil you get at the end. It also worked because I was leveling a Rom char when the library bug was in play. So, I leveled it from like 20 to 50 via the Gamma BZ, while waiting on the library fix.

    Also with the one shotting in Dyson and Undine space BZs. They're level 50 to enter, or was, with the new skip to any part once you've completed the story arcs on one char, I don't know what level you have to be to enter them So, they're scaling is still off.

    Badlands and Gon'cra are the only two 60+ battlezones we have.

    You want a forgotten BZ, well if you can call it that, go to Otha. It's a mix between a battlezone and a competitive map, complete with scoring system.
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,567 Arc User
    The gamma waiting zone was just bland and far too reliant of player numbers to fill a group. Made worse by the inability to join more than one queue at a time. Makes the whole experience a complete waste of time for console players as you can have wait times of an hour or more then miss out because whoever ported the game decided that the weeooo hail noise used to warn a groups ready was unnecessary. The usual case of cryptic trying an idea then walking away rather than trying to build on it or make it workable because it won't sell gamblebox keys or ships.

    Badlands gets interesting when you have folk near enough to give the spawn rate a nudge, best example being the generator with the blue ring that is really scary to members of the mindless pewpew set. You can always tell when a swarm of players is coming your way when the combat gets interesting for that few seconds between them being close enough to tweak the spawns and actually being close enough to do something.

    For what it is goncra is well placed at the asscrack of the beta quadrant. Some decent enough tasks but the broken timers on recapture made it even less worthwhile than sysiphus and his boulder pushing. I get the feeling most only go there when they have to obliterate some kethi then leave straight after.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,715 Arc User
    edited March 30
    The gamma waiting zone was just bland and far too reliant of player numbers to fill a group. Made worse by the inability to join more than one queue at a time. Makes the whole experience a complete waste of time for console players as you can have wait times of an hour or more then miss out because whoever ported the game decided that the weeooo hail noise used to warn a groups ready was unnecessary. The usual case of cryptic trying an idea then walking away rather than trying to build on it or make it workable because it won't sell gamblebox keys or ships.

    Badlands gets interesting when you have folk near enough to give the spawn rate a nudge, best example being the generator with the blue ring that is really scary to members of the mindless pewpew set. You can always tell when a swarm of players is coming your way when the combat gets interesting for that few seconds between them being close enough to tweak the spawns and actually being close enough to do something.

    For what it is goncra is well placed at the asscrack of the beta quadrant. Some decent enough tasks but the broken timers on recapture made it even less worthwhile than sysiphus and his boulder pushing. I get the feeling most only go there when they have to obliterate some kethi then leave straight after.

    Yeah, unless you want the accolades for the battlezones. The best thing to do here is what I do, queue up random advanced TFO, do it, grab the marks I want/need from the Random reward box, and move on with my day. The only bz where the reward is worth it is Dyson Ground. Everything else you can get more off from a random normal. Elite marks, ehhh, trade for 1 per day if you must. It's still better than the battlezones.

    Though you can use the bz to speed up elite mark gain, if you have nothing better to do.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 8,792 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    The only bz where the reward is worth it is Dyson Ground.

    One run of the Badlands gets you plenty of Terran and Temporal Marks, 3 Elite Marks from each of those reps and around 2800 Dilithium. You convert the Marks and the Elite Marks to Dilithium and it can be quite lucrative, especially if you horde the marks and cash them in while you have the bonus from Ferengi Reputation.

    Personally, I don't know the exact perfect trick to get credit in the Dyson Zone so to me it's completely worthless. Unless you know exactly where to be and when you make nothing running that zone.
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 1,270 Arc User
    I don't find the Dyson ground zone too useful for the final rewards. Getting to one of the Vrexs in time is very hit or miss because of how absurdly long the run is to get to their spots from most of the control points. There's been more than a few times where I'm almost solo working one area, flipping the control points one by one and then as I flip the last one, the Vrex spawns and I start running, but can't make it in time. I really only go there to do ground damage endeavors or Voth endeavors.

    The undine zone works pretty good, but I think its pretty easy, even for fresh characters with mismatched gear from leveling. That said, the constant annoying slows from undine torpedoes and bubbles are obnoxious.

    The space turtle zone is awful. I'm sure others covered the why long ago, I only go there to get endeavors done if necessary.

    The badlands works pretty well I find, and I have no complaints. It seems I'm not alone for how popular it tends to be.

    Kobali prime is okay, but the respawn rate is a tad absurd, as is the aggro range of the enemies. It is very easy to pull half the map without even trying, and then the stuff you just killed is respawning well before you can kill the rest of the parade coming to kill you. Tweak it a bit and I'd be happy with it.

    I kinda like the gamma quadrant, but it honestly takes far too long to join a queue if no one else is in the queue so its often hurry up and wait which is boring.

    Defera ground I don't bother with. I never did bother with it when it first came out either.
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 118 Arc User
    Nukara Prime surface map suffers from being so small, so everything is close together, the caves is where it's fun. Defera ground has issues, but generally is okay, but it's age shows, and the broken vendor/crafting; and they never did finish the communications array section also. Nimbus III suffers from the thing of people not realizing to just change instant when doing their "smash the scorpions" event. All 3 of these are basically from the time when Big Dig and Breaking the Planet were their precursors on how enemy groups spawn in a rotating way per conditions set by players. And all 3 are from when the factions were/are separate in story/gameplay timeline. Everything beyond this evolved from those.

    Dyson ground Voth Battlezone: you have to think of where everything is in relation to said V-Rex spawn, just start at the areas furthest from them, and work to that spawn as a goal over time. Of course take the transporter first to give you a boost in consumable points. The worst two V-Rex are the Park due to the large swath of landscape you have to transverse, and the City because the transporter is so far from the V-Rex. But otherwise it's a nice farm for stuff. They could improve the stage maybe have the V-Rexs + Voth "battalions" spawn in a pathing way to the Omega Silo Towers, and forcing everyone to figure out where they are, and dealing with the groups to the thing. Maybe even throw in some tower defense type thing at Each tower. can make it for each thematic alliance group covers a different one (City=Federation, Park=Klingon, and the Outskirts=Romulan)

    Undine/Voth Space zone are fine. Badlands is basically the same. Kobali Prime is okay (though the section with the defuse the mines could be reworked better), but the spawn rate is still too fast in some areas, they really intended people to group up I think even with their Boffs. The Gamma Quadrant Battlezone is interesting, it's okay to do sometimes. I feel like the queue thing is kind of an issue. But I'm not sure how one would remedy that one so much as just accept it's based on the PvE thing.

    Space Turtle...err I mean Tzenkethi Battlezone: Horrible, Horrible Time. The asteroid collection is doable by 1 person, the warp inhibitor ones almost are doable if you are able to keep up with the respawn by yourself, but likely to be better done with a second person, don't you come over here Mr. 3! you'll cause more to spawn---though probably be fine as you just have to keep them from reactivating the blasted upside-down umbrella (that you can't tell what color it is because the transparence in space textures have been screwed up in game for ages even though you have a Nvidia 1080 GTX....and no amount of driver patches fixes it because it's got to be something in game....at least you are pretty sure...). And dear god, the freaking control spheres, you just try to keep them out, but every other player congeals to these, and then the numbers of Tzenkethi go up, and then take forever to capture, thereby enabling Tzenkethi in their super power of production then go on to re-capture other points because everyone is focused on these, or too many people are trying to do the other two capture the flag/king of the hill so the space zone never gets to the last stage anymore.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 11,409 Arc User
    I do Dyson the same way all the time. I take the Transporter to the Outskirts. Capture that when reset. I always return to that after capturing whatever when nearing V-Rex Spawn Time. The Silo is right around the corner. I go there and battle when spawned. I make sure I shoot those Voth Engineers trying to activate. When killed, I stay right there and wait for the the 5 Implants.

    I may or may not have picked up the two Command Credit Assignments, and the Kill Voth one. I don't pick up the Capture Two Points because I usually only do the Outskirts.

    I am there for Endeavors only so the other stuff is usually immaterial.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,790 Arc User
    Personally, I think that the Undine Space Zone and the Badlands are very well done and I quite enjoy both of them. You will see a lot more 'one shots' in the Undine Zone though.. that zone is very tame difficulty wise. The Badlands is a bit more of a fight, especially if you get a large group of Terran Ships. I'll agree though, that some of the 'time gates' like sitting next to the generator waiting for the bar to fill up is discouraging.

    The Dyson Ground Zone is one I still don't get. People love this awful zone and I could never figure out why. I avoid it like the plague because to me it's an insane waste of time. If you don't know exactly where to be and exactly when to be there.. you get nothing. Total waste of time.. I hate it.

    The Gamma BZ I don't even count. It's not a battle zone and it's not fun. Same with the TZ Zone, that's just a place you go when you have an endeavor that makes you go there. I never understood why after making 2 really good zones like the Undine and the Badlands.. that they decided to change the formula for the next two zones. The Gamma and TZ Battle Zones are painfully awful. I would hate to see them make too many changes to the Undine or Badlands Zone though.. I think they're quite cool myself.

    I do also enjoy the Kobali Zone.. the fast respawn makes sure you always have targets to fight, and I like that.

    One thing to remember is that the Dyson Ground Zone also features 4 daily missions that award extra Dilithium and Marks. You won't get those Voth Implants if you just pursue these, but the missions are still rather easy to do. You could rotate through multiple characters and get some nice extra Dilithium.

    It's not my favorite, and I mostly go there for the Voth and Ground Damage endeavors, but it's okay.

    I like the Badlands, the only thing I hate are the satellites. So boring, just looking at a progress counter and kill a few enemies... Pressing F might not be much of an interaction, but it's better than that.

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 50,224 Arc User
    kaggert27 wrote: »
    hereby enabling Tzenkethi in their super power of production then go on to re-capture other points because everyone is focused on these, or too many people are trying to do the other two capture the flag/king of the hill so the space zone never gets to the last stage anymore.

    What recapture? As I mentioned earlier Goncra doesn't send ships to recap like in Badlands or Undine. It just flips on its own. Hell... there was a time we could be working on the King of the Hill spots, almost have it, then suddenly "we've been overrun" and the particular sector we're ACTIVELY WORKING resets as if it just flipped back to full red. Feels more like Gon'Cra is working timers a lot more. At least in the Badlands and Undine zones you can actually TELL when a sector is in danger of flipping and can counter it. In Gon'cra? Nope. It WILL flip no matter what.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 11,409 Arc User
    edited March 31
    It will flip, then when you do something to take it back (trip towers, etc.) then the Ships come flooding in. The other night I was there and spent a few extra minutes past the Endeavor and the Dreadnoughts triggered. The next thing I know other sectors have to be recaptured.
    Post edited by ltminns on
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 8,792 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    kaggert27 wrote: »
    hereby enabling Tzenkethi in their super power of production then go on to re-capture other points because everyone is focused on these, or too many people are trying to do the other two capture the flag/king of the hill so the space zone never gets to the last stage anymore.

    What recapture? As I mentioned earlier Goncra doesn't send ships to recap like in Badlands or Undine. It just flips on its own. Hell... there was a time we could be working on the King of the Hill spots, almost have it, then suddenly "we've been overrun" and the particular sector we're ACTIVELY WORKING resets as if it just flipped back to full red. Feels more like Gon'Cra is working timers a lot more. At least in the Badlands and Undine zones you can actually TELL when a sector is in danger of flipping and can counter it. In Gon'cra? Nope. It WILL flip no matter what.

    Correct, zones in Gon'cra flip no matter what.. players can't actually stop it. They have 'tired to fix the zone' a couple of times.. but they still don't seem to get what the actual problem is.

    Gon'cra is a lost cause.. it's somewhere you go for Endeavors.. nothing more.
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,567 Arc User
    Gon'cra completing 3 times in three days...

    Isn't that one of the signs for the end times as predicted by nostrildamus?
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 50,224 Arc User
    Gon'cra completing 3 times in three days...

    Isn't that one of the signs for the end times as predicted by nostrildamus?

    No. I think that's playable Borg Cubes. Juggernaught doesn't count because it still has a relatively defined front.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,715 Arc User
    kaggert27 wrote: »
    Nukara Prime surface map suffers from being so small, so everything is close together, the caves is where it's fun. Defera ground has issues, but generally is okay, but it's age shows, and the broken vendor/crafting; and they never did finish the communications array section also. Nimbus III suffers from the thing of people not realizing to just change instant when doing their "smash the scorpions" event. All 3 of these are basically from the time when Big Dig and Breaking the Planet were their precursors on how enemy groups spawn in a rotating way per conditions set by players. And all 3 are from when the factions were/are separate in story/gameplay timeline. Everything beyond this evolved from those.

    Dyson ground Voth Battlezone: you have to think of where everything is in relation to said V-Rex spawn, just start at the areas furthest from them, and work to that spawn as a goal over time. Of course take the transporter first to give you a boost in consumable points. The worst two V-Rex are the Park due to the large swath of landscape you have to transverse, and the City because the transporter is so far from the V-Rex. But otherwise it's a nice farm for stuff. They could improve the stage maybe have the V-Rexs + Voth "battalions" spawn in a pathing way to the Omega Silo Towers, and forcing everyone to figure out where they are, and dealing with the groups to the thing. Maybe even throw in some tower defense type thing at Each tower. can make it for each thematic alliance group covers a different one (City=Federation, Park=Klingon, and the Outskirts=Romulan)

    Undine/Voth Space zone are fine. Badlands is basically the same. Kobali Prime is okay (though the section with the defuse the mines could be reworked better), but the spawn rate is still too fast in some areas, they really intended people to group up I think even with their Boffs. The Gamma Quadrant Battlezone is interesting, it's okay to do sometimes. I feel like the queue thing is kind of an issue. But I'm not sure how one would remedy that one so much as just accept it's based on the PvE thing.

    Space Turtle...err I mean Tzenkethi Battlezone: Horrible, Horrible Time. The asteroid collection is doable by 1 person, the warp inhibitor ones almost are doable if you are able to keep up with the respawn by yourself, but likely to be better done with a second person, don't you come over here Mr. 3! you'll cause more to spawn---though probably be fine as you just have to keep them from reactivating the blasted upside-down umbrella (that you can't tell what color it is because the transparence in space textures have been screwed up in game for ages even though you have a Nvidia 1080 GTX....and no amount of driver patches fixes it because it's got to be something in game....at least you are pretty sure...). And dear god, the freaking control spheres, you just try to keep them out, but every other player congeals to these, and then the numbers of Tzenkethi go up, and then take forever to capture, thereby enabling Tzenkethi in their super power of production then go on to re-capture other points because everyone is focused on these, or too many people are trying to do the other two capture the flag/king of the hill so the space zone never gets to the last stage anymore.

    Remember, New Romulus and Nimbus aren't Battllezones. They're adventure zones.

    Gon'cra isn't the only place to suffer from the visual problems. I know the lane battle Undine TFO(can't remember the name) does as well. If you cross down below a certain point Weapon visuals and such just cease to work. The same happens in the stop them from getting to the gates portion of the Herald Sphere, and in the boss fight portion if I'm not mistaken. I'm pretty sure that I've seen this in other places, just don't remember where right off. Like you on this, I know it's not my AMD RX 570 X....X....X 8gb GPU. This is on the game.


    Voth Space and Undine Battlezones are little more than park and pews. You have a couple things you need to move a bit for in the Undine one. The Voth Ground bz, when I go to this one. I don't play, I automatically just swap to one of the lower population instances, and then proceed to go what needs to be done. Knowing where the V-Rex is, that one is simple, they're not far from each section transport padd. Well, aside from the city and having to circle around to get to it, instead of just running over there in a few seconds.

    Kobali, yes the original intent of that was for people to team up. The mine field part I actually enjoy, and can be done alone. But for this one, having a friend along is a never a bad thing.

    Gamma, the one suggestion that I'e seen about this that makes sense, is to allow the mission to start with just 1 person in queue. Then others can join in.

    Gon'cra timers are bad, yes. I think since it's been out I've completed the entire thing 1 time. I haven't even been to this one in a year, so I can't say much worse it gotten since then.
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  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,267 Arc User
    Gon'cra completing 3 times in three days...

    Isn't that one of the signs for the end times as predicted by nostrildamus?

    It's really not that bad. I still see a pretty decent number of people in it every time I pop in there. The main reason I don't go there more often is because it's out on the edge of nowhere. If there was a fast-travel option from DS9 or something, I'd probably run around there more often.

    I just wish more people understood you have to punch the ships in the nose/forward arc(other facings get something like a 90% damage cut, IIRC) and gravity wells can actually be a detriment for that very reason. It does still have some mechanical issues(friendly control tickrate is WAY too slow when you're defending), but it's pretty doable provided people space themselves out instead of zerging a single point.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 50,224 Arc User
    Well... there is a Transwarp option for Gon'cra.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,267 Arc User
    Yes, but that's a bit of a catch-22. If you want to run it on an alt who hasn't done that rep yet(to get the marks) it's a long trip out there. And, it's even worse if you want to make changes to your setup/vendor - you're forced to burn cooldowns and make another long trip.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 34,176 Arc User
    edited April 1
    or you can just use the free transwarp to new kentar via the mirrors and smoke mission, and then finish the remainder of the trip to gon'cra; it's practically next door

    that's what i always do now instead of wasting a lengthy CD transwarp that you don't even get until you've made some progress into lukari rep​​
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  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,715 Arc User
    or you can just use the free transwarp to new kentar via the mirrors and smoke mission, and then finish the remainder of the trip to gon'cra; it's practically next door

    that's what i always do now instead of wasting a lengthy CD transwarp that you don't even get until you've made some progress into lukari rep​​

    Pick up bodly they rode, and boom free transwarp to DS9.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 11,409 Arc User
    I use 'Second Wave'.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
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