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✯✯✯ STAR TREK PICARD ✯✯✯ (reactions and discussion WITH SPOILERS)

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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    Also Raffi and Seven have both suffered a lot of loss over the past 20 years, loss that they've not really had much help in dealing with and seem to be self-medicating, perhaps they'll be able to help each other and that, rather then a romance is what forms the bonds of their relationship. we might be reading too much into them entwining their fingers
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,100 Arc User
    PICARD NOOOOO , 5 min later DATA NOOOOO , 20 secs later oh picard :p can we get the ship captain riker flew + the bridge as a T6 ship TY TY

    We already have it - Riker's ship looks very much like the original STO 'Noble' Class:
    STP-STO.jpg

    I believe it's a T4 - so it can be gotten cheap with Dilithium now. ;)
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  • mainamaina Member Posts: 430 Arc User
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  • joshmauljoshmaul Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    I expected that when the "golem" was introduced in part 1, and with the bit about Picard announcing "right, let's go, oh, by the way I'm dying", that Picard would somehow end up in it. Having him die in his own series without a way out? No way.

    That being said, I can't help but think that this was all incredibly rushed, that we move from point A to point G and skip real fast over everything from B to F, if that makes any sense. Even Discovery didn't jump around nearly this much, and they had the excuse of having a spore drive. (That's a joke, boy, ya missed it, went right past ya...)
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  • aboundedorc0#8479 aboundedorc0 Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    I enjoyed Picard despite the large contingent of nitpickers nattering on about some aspects of the show. We live in an era where our genre fixes struggle to find unique voices while also being darkened overall by the coarseness running rampant within our population and the skewed seive through which our slanted media presents information. Even with all of that, there was more to like than dislike within the ten episodes of Picard. I can't say the same about two seasons of Discovery, which if we are lucky will not survive beyond its next season?
  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
  • kaithan1975kaithan1975 Member Posts: 947 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Personally, I'm looking forward to season 2 to see where they take this ragtag group next. On a side note, I want that warp out visual/sound.
  • revanmichaels#6727 revanmichaels Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.
  • kaithan1975kaithan1975 Member Posts: 947 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    Also Raffi and Seven have both suffered a lot of loss over the past 20 years, loss that they've not really had much help in dealing with and seem to be self-medicating, perhaps they'll be able to help each other and that, rather then a romance is what forms the bonds of their relationship. we might be reading too much into them entwining their fingers

    If the creators of Picard do nothing with their relationship they have in Season 2 whether it is romantic or friendly, then it would have been better to have left it ambigious at the end of the Series like the Legend of Korra with Asami and Korra. It is too earlier to call for sure and could be just two people comforting each other. Hugh's death and Seven being a Borg Queen would have affected Seven while Picard's death and Raffi's estrangement from her son and grandchild would have affected Raffi. It does seem like there is a romantic relationship between Jurati and Rios.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.

    I'm not saying Picard had "lazy writing" like Revan, but your response/excuse doesn't float IMO. The recent HBO show "Watchmen" also only had 9 episodes and still managed to tell an incredibly complete and fleshed out story (while also existing within a previously established world/IP, like Picard was).

    Though I'm not saying this about Picard specifically, this does need to be said in general: some writers/producers just aren't as good as others. And when that's the case, people just need to be honest and not try to make excuses.

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  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 530 Arc User
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    gaalom wrote: »
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.

    in fairness mind you Riker may not have simply been using technical language, the POINT certainly was gotten across "I'll shoot your pwoer plants and make you go boom!" keep in mind in real day to day life people don't always use the most precise language.

    Speaking of Riker, I'll note he proved he's a better person then I am. If I was in Riker's shoes, I don't think I would have been able to give Oh the chance to retreat he did. Hell, the attack on Mars itself is easily arguable as a act of war.
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    I mean they are technically cores that power their warp drives. One could argue it's short hand. A smidge of a stretch sure.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    and since when does the energy dissipator not work on ships equipped with singularity cores? i don't remember anything in DS9 saying it can't dampen the energy generated by one​​
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.

    Actually, skimping on writing to the point it is not fleshed out properly is pretty much the definition of lazy writing. And that is surprising with Chabon involved, which makes me wonder just how much control he really had since that kind of laziness is the direct opposite of his writing style. It seems very much more Kurtzman's style in fact, like he is micromanaging from upstairs too much.
    gaalom wrote: »
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.

    If the Federation ships that showed up were smaller than the Noble/Imperial cruiser kitbash they resemble then how would they be closer to the Typhoon class battleship?

    It is also possible that some Romulan ship classes use warp cores while the majority use singularity cores, the old Stormbirds almost certainly would have had the original Klingon engines for instance. It was mentioned in Nemesis that Remus was their main source of dilithium (as bad a source as it was) so they were not completely without the means to build and maintain at least a small number of warp cores, and if they were mining it they were obviously using it for something (though to be fair they could have been trading most of it away for things they actually use).
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    Personally, I'm looking forward to season 2 to see where they take this ragtag group next. On a side note, I want that warp out visual/sound.
    Make a Disco toon. That's the default sound/visual for the era. I like it.
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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    So apparently the original captain of the flagship at the end was supposed to be Admiral Clancy.
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »
    So apparently the original captain of the flagship at the end was supposed to be Admiral Clancy.

    They made the right choice.

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Since Admirals are 'chair-bound paper-pushers', it fell to a Reerve Captain to command the Fleet as Starfleets only Commodore was a traitor and commanding the Romulan Fleet. ;)
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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.

    Actually, skimping on writing to the point it is not fleshed out properly is pretty much the definition of lazy writing. And that is surprising with Chabon involved, which makes me wonder just how much control he really had since that kind of laziness is the direct opposite of his writing style. It seems very much more Kurtzman's style in fact, like he is micromanaging from upstairs too much.
    gaalom wrote: »
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.

    If the Federation ships that showed up were smaller than the Noble/Imperial cruiser kitbash they resemble then how would they be closer to the Typhoon class battleship?

    It is also possible that some Romulan ship classes use warp cores while the majority use singularity cores, the old Stormbirds almost certainly would have had the original Klingon engines for instance. It was mentioned in Nemesis that Remus was their main source of dilithium (as bad a source as it was) so they were not completely without the means to build and maintain at least a small number of warp cores, and if they were mining it they were obviously using it for something (though to be fair they could have been trading most of it away for things they actually use).

    it's also possiable the singualrity drive was unique to the D'deredex class and the romulan star empire abandoned the technology, perhaps the singualrity drive proved to be too maintiance expensive, perhaps it was actualy inferior to the latest matter/anti-matter warp drives and only was deployed because at the time dilithium shortages where causing a production bottleneck etc. or perhaps it was superior but in the post romulus era singualrity drives proved a production bottleneck and the RSE choose to go with older matter/anti-matter plants to allow them to build up a new fleet quicker.

  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    A warp core is just the common name for any type of energy reactor powering a warp drive. An artificial quantum singularity reactor core and matter/anti-matter reaction reactor core are both different types of warp cores.

    Now if Riker threatened to fire on the Romulans' antimatter reactor core instead of their warp cores, then they would be using a matter-antimatter reaction to power their ships. So there is no evidence that the Romulans changed from artificial quantum singularities to matter/anti-matter reaction based on Riker's threat. The only way for the artificial quantum singularity to not be a warp core is if it is used for something unrelated to warp drives like powering a starbase or a different method of FTL propulsion.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.

    Actually, skimping on writing to the point it is not fleshed out properly is pretty much the definition of lazy writing. And that is surprising with Chabon involved, which makes me wonder just how much control he really had since that kind of laziness is the direct opposite of his writing style. It seems very much more Kurtzman's style in fact, like he is micromanaging from upstairs too much.
    gaalom wrote: »
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.

    If the Federation ships that showed up were smaller than the Noble/Imperial cruiser kitbash they resemble then how would they be closer to the Typhoon class battleship?

    It is also possible that some Romulan ship classes use warp cores while the majority use singularity cores, the old Stormbirds almost certainly would have had the original Klingon engines for instance. It was mentioned in Nemesis that Remus was their main source of dilithium (as bad a source as it was) so they were not completely without the means to build and maintain at least a small number of warp cores, and if they were mining it they were obviously using it for something (though to be fair they could have been trading most of it away for things they actually use).

    it's also possiable the singualrity drive was unique to the D'deredex class and the romulan star empire abandoned the technology, perhaps the singualrity drive proved to be too maintiance expensive, perhaps it was actualy inferior to the latest matter/anti-matter warp drives and only was deployed because at the time dilithium shortages where causing a production bottleneck etc. or perhaps it was superior but in the post romulus era singualrity drives proved a production bottleneck and the RSE choose to go with older matter/anti-matter plants to allow them to build up a new fleet quicker.

    True, it is possible, but hopefully CBS will not totally drop the ball by making something like that "D'deredex only" thing official. The singularity cores are the best explanation of things going all the way back to TOS, like for instance the question of how the Romulans travelled interstellar distances without a stardrive of any kind.

    Remember, in "Balance of Terror" Scotty could not find anything but "simple impulse" in his scan of the warbird and Spock was baffled as to how they were generating enough energy to power those huge torpedoes and the cloak. The sensors may not have been able to "see" the singularity core or it may have looked like something else which would fit the facts presented in that (and other) episodes.

    One very good fan theory that was being kicked around a few years ago was that Romulan drives might have used the singularity cores to play with the physics of FTL travel in a way similar to the shipboard FTL drives in Mass Effect instead of using a standard warp field and after having a rude awakening about how slow their drives were they may have bought or traded for old Klingon ships to try and figure out a way to use the singularity output to generate a warp field instead.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Well, Ep 10 was the worst of the bunch, by far. There were some scenes that if you completely cut out story context, were great.

    Captain Riker in command of the fleet (should have been admiral Riker or some other admiral, realistically) was a great scene, yet in the context of the greater story, what we've already seen, was insanely dumb. He lets O, who infiltrated and betrayed Starfleet, has access to however many command codes and whatever that Starfleet gave her, get away with no consequences. She's not a diplomat, she's a spy who actively worked against the Federation's interests and ideals. And while her fleet for some reason wasn't already bombarding the planet to save the universe for reasons, Riker's fleet should have been helping because the universe is at risk, and why is he even in command of a starship again so quickly? Pizza chef to Fleet Captain in what, 5 days maybe? Also, boring fleet composition.

    Then you have the Data/Picard scene which in itself is pretty good. Yet, when you realize its pasted on the backdrop of a colony of synths, who apparently mostly all have Data's memories, and they have a golem to simply give Picard extra life, why didn't they just bring back Data instead of leaving him on a mainframe? The real answer is that it is totally unrelated to in universe or story reasons, its because Spiner didn't want to play Data anymore, yet they didn't even consider giving him a new body for a new actor. It could have been a much better scene with a better story context behind it, yet they ham fisted Data into the story anyway! Data and his memory was totally irrelevant in the end, just like Picard's death, and no one even flinches at snuffing Data out rather than talking him into life again.

    Other things were just horrible, like the big bad evil robot Cthulu. Why did turning the beacon off stop it? Now it knows when/where you are and can come at any time, because it couldn't before for some magic reason. But how big of a threat is it anyway? If it did some big stuff 200k years ago, it clearly did a terrible job. The Voth have been around for millions of years for one, and their tech level is superior to the Federation. I'm fairly sure there are others as well that have lived through that 200k year ago era, so why is this thing a threat at all?

    But if it is as big a threat as we were supposed to believe, there is a problem. Androids need to be wiped out, because at any point, any one of them could build a beacon undetected and call robocthulu forth again. We saw how stupidly fickle Soji was, after all the efforts Picard went through to help her, and meeting many other friendly humans, including Riker's daughter, she was willing to wipe out all of them, and all life, when humans did no wrong to her, just Romulans.

    And despite the massive threat Soji was presenting herself as, Rios has a moral dilemma. Really? She wants to kill you and every living person in existence. And lets not get into the idiocy of the soccerbomb instead of using your ship. Dust off and nuke it from orbit.

    So clearly it makes perfect sense that if androids are this major, potential threat, the android ban is lifted just like that. Why? Did I miss the exposition on that? Where was that even hinted at in any other episode, that such a thing might be in the works? Frankly it seems like O was indeed the force behind that, because once she is gone everything goes back to normal.

    It comes as no surprise the murder of Maddox goes unpunished, but what is surprising is that Rios is ready to get with a girl who murdered her last lover. Smart. And completely out of left field is the absurd Seven/Raffi romance. Literally zero build up to that, but sure lets pander to activists and TRIBBLE off real LGB people who aren't tokens to be shoved into a slot. And because I'm sure I have to say it, I don't care if Seven/Raffi are TRIBBLE, bi, TRIBBLE, whatever. It makes no difference. However the fact that both of them have a long history of being straight and there is zero build up to the change makes it clear it was just done for muh representation rather than the hard work of fleshing out the characters and watching them grow close together.

    The worst thing of all though, has to be the magic imagination wand. It is just a deus ex device that had no business existing, and makes no sense in how it was used. Fix the ship and make some copies of it, or wish away the Romulans and the big bad evil robocthulu... choices, choices.


    The writing was simply awful. Yes its nice that the Federation is ultimately redeemed or something to some degree, but it had no business and no purpose being so darkly written in the story anyway. If the Federation ideals are that fragile and that fungible to flip them up or down like a lightswitch then who cares about what the Federation believes or what ideals it holds? This series grabbed at so many things and didn't focus on anything to its detriment.

    I have no interest in season 2, 3, 4, or any other after this. The writers didn't care to write a good story, much less a good Star Trek story. I definitely do not understand why anyone liked it, but I don't need to. I hope that people who did like it get as much more of STP as they want, but I'm not interested in more.
  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,758 Arc User
    Soooo is all of Starfleet's ship compliment just one class now? Ok.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    hawku001x wrote: »
    Soooo is all of Starfleet's ship compliment just one class now? Ok.

    I don’t think that’s all of Star Fleet. I think it’s just their fast reaction Fleet.
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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    Raffi has a long history of being straight?
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
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