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Reduce number of people in instances

The Voth contested zone, Nimbus 3 and possibly other locations attract a lot of players nowadays due to the personal endeavours.

Most of these locations only have a handful of instances, and up to 20 people in them. This maximum number of players needs to be reduced, so that new instances are created faster.

Two or three good players can practically solo an instance of the contested zone. When there are 20, it becomes more of a challenge to find a ship to fight, rather than to fight it.


What is the point of visiting or being told to visit a battlezone or an adventure zone when there are not enough enemies to fight there?
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
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Comments

  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    Good one!
    I concur.
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    Most of these locations only have a handful of instances, and up to 20 people in them. This maximum number of players needs to be reduced, so that new instances are created faster.


    That don't make no sense. :) Less ppl per instance means the Zone will take longer to finish.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Oh thumbs up for this.

    I should have never laughed so loud when peeps complained that I shoot away “their” targets in ISA. I can assure everybody that I got punished accordingly for this elsewhere hundreds of times by now. :D
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Most of these locations only have a handful of instances, and up to 20 people in them. This maximum number of players needs to be reduced, so that new instances are created faster.


    That don't make no sense. :) Less ppl per instance means the Zone will take longer to finish.

    True, but is that a serious problem when players can kill most enemies by themselves?

    I feel that 20 people is just too many for an instance where the enemies can be killed by 2 or 3 players.

    Just an hour or so ago, I was reading something online while waiting for another instance to open up in the Contested Zone.
    I may have been no longer than 30 seconds away from the game, and then all 4 dreadnoughts and everything around them were killed. When that phase hadn't even begun 30 seconds earlier, when I alt-tabbed away from the game.


    I seriously doubt finishing the instance will be much of a problem.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Most of these locations only have a handful of instances, and up to 20 people in them. This maximum number of players needs to be reduced, so that new instances are created faster.


    That don't make no sense. :) Less ppl per instance means the Zone will take longer to finish.

    True, but is that a serious problem when players can kill most enemies by themselves?

    I feel that 20 people is just too many for an instance where the enemies can be killed by 2 or 3 players.


    It depends. Tzenkethi Zone is always a beatch, and very often you don't even reach the final boss fight (or ppl can't finish it in time). Voth BZ is a lot easier, on the other hand (far less buggy too, btw).
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,789 Arc User
    I prefer the larger instances because it makes them go faster. The grind is less enjoyable the longer it drags on, so the more people to get it done quicker, I am going to say, is better.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    The Voth contested zone, Nimbus 3 and possibly other locations attract a lot of players nowadays due to the personal endeavours.

    Most of these locations only have a handful of instances, and up to 20 people in them. This maximum number of players needs to be reduced, so that new instances are created faster.

    Two or three good players can practically solo an instance of the contested zone. When there are 20, it becomes more of a challenge to find a ship to fight, rather than to fight it.


    What is the point of visiting or being told to visit a battlezone or an adventure zone when there are not enough enemies to fight there?

    + 1.

    sometimes, it is really hard to find enough arthopods or gorn to kill for the endeavour on Nimbus; and now there are also a lot of campers (I don't understand why?); it is sometimes also the same thing in the dyson bz, too many players who run after the too few voths available. (With the lag and rubberbanding, i don't even try to fight the big dino). it is also the same thing in the contested zone.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    I prefer the larger instances because it makes them go faster. The grind is less enjoyable the longer it drags on, so the more people to get it done quicker, I am going to say, is better.

    Yeah, but the problem is that in areas like the Badlands or the Undine Zone, if you finish the Zone too quickly, you often don't get the full Dilithium rewards. The areas are coded to take into account how much time you spent there in order to avoid players popping in for the last couple minutes and walking away with the same rewards as everyone else.

    If you have a ton of people and the Zone gets completed too fast.. you get less reward.

    It's a tricky scenario though, because I have been in instances before.. especially in the Undine Zone that were filled with so many new players that they actually needed all the help they could get.

    Overall though, I think reducing the instance limit would be a good idea. Especially in instances like Nimbus, I currently re-roll all Nimbus endeavors because if you have to kill 30+ Gorn it's just too hard to get because they're always waiting to respawn.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    People:
    Put emotion aside.
    Emotion leads to Humanity... (conflict, stupidity, illogical behavior). :P


    OP has a point: sure it goes faster with a billion folks in one zone, but it becomes a serious issue to many if those billion folks all hunt the same darn ship, no?

    ALTERNATIVE solution:
    Mass spawn more ships.
    But that would increase lag and whatnot.

    Conclusion:
    Logic dictates here that eliminating players would help putting that issue to rest.

    Suggestion: half amount of current allowed players/instance?

    Thoughts?
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,789 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    I prefer the larger instances because it makes them go faster. The grind is less enjoyable the longer it drags on, so the more people to get it done quicker, I am going to say, is better.

    Yeah, but the problem is that in areas like the Badlands or the Undine Zone, if you finish the Zone too quickly, you often don't get the full Dilithium rewards. The areas are coded to take into account how much time you spent there in order to avoid players popping in for the last couple minutes and walking away with the same rewards as everyone else.

    If you have a ton of people and the Zone gets completed too fast.. you get less reward.

    It's a tricky scenario though, because I have been in instances before.. especially in the Undine Zone that were filled with so many new players that they actually needed all the help they could get.

    Overall though, I think reducing the instance limit would be a good idea. Especially in instances like Nimbus, I currently re-roll all Nimbus endeavors because if you have to kill 30+ Gorn it's just too hard to get because they're always waiting to respawn.

    I am very familiar with instances where I feel like I am the only player doing enough DPS to kill something, and none of my ships are uber superior. With the timed reward levels. I think the reward should be increased for the quicker it can be done. That way, the rewards would make more sense.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    kiksken wrote: »
    People:
    Put emotion aside.
    Emotion leads to Humanity... (conflict, stupidity, illogical behavior). :P


    OP has a point: sure it goes faster with a billion folks in one zone, but it becomes a serious issue to many if those billion folks all hunt the same darn ship, no?

    ALTERNATIVE solution:
    Mass spawn more ships.
    But that would increase lag and whatnot.

    Conclusion:
    Logic dictates here that eliminating players would help putting that issue to rest.

    Suggestion: half amount of current allowed players/instance?

    Thoughts?

    They lowered the instance cap at DS9 when the new one came out from 30 to 20, it didn't help the lag. Then at this anniversary they lowered it from 20 to 15, guess what it hasn't helped?

    If you guessed lag, you're right. DS9 is still set to have an instance cap of 15.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    They lowered the instance cap at DS9 when the new one came out from 30 to 20, it didn't help the lag. Then at this anniversary they lowered it from 20 to 15, guess what it hasn't helped?

    If you guessed lag, you're right. DS9 is still set to have an instance cap of 15.
    It is not about PLAYERS, the lag I pointed too, but NPC ships.
    MASSES of NPC ships... :P
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    The Voth contested zone, Nimbus 3 and possibly other locations attract a lot of players nowadays due to the personal endeavours.

    Most of these locations only have a handful of instances, and up to 20 people in them. This maximum number of players needs to be reduced, so that new instances are created faster.

    Two or three good players can practically solo an instance of the contested zone. When there are 20, it becomes more of a challenge to find a ship to fight, rather than to fight it.

    What is the point of visiting or being told to visit a battlezone or an adventure zone when there are not enough enemies to fight there?

    Why not just increase the spawn rates and amount of spawns based on people in the zone? If the endeavor is for a boss in one of those areas, increase the amount of HP proportionate to the number of people in the zone so everyone has a better chance of tagging it? Increasing the number of instances isn't necessarily going to let folks get endeavors done faster, especially if they don't have the knockdown power and survival to kill things quickly enough.

    The key thing is you want to have a healthy balance where folks are at least required to be conscious at their keyboard, but on the opposite end doesn't allow folks to simply leech either. No matter where you put that bar, there is always going to be individuals that can sneeze in the general direction of stuff and kill it. On the opposite end you can lower skill requirement all the way to the basement of Gre'thor and there will be people who still can't do it. Upping the spawn rates and spawn amounts will better guarantee there is stuff there to shoot. From there, change it to give folks credit for kills if they have done at least 2% of the damage to that foe. Spawning new instances doesn't address the underlying root issues and simply shifts them from one place to another.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    kiksken wrote: »
    trennan wrote: »
    They lowered the instance cap at DS9 when the new one came out from 30 to 20, it didn't help the lag. Then at this anniversary they lowered it from 20 to 15, guess what it hasn't helped?

    If you guessed lag, you're right. DS9 is still set to have an instance cap of 15.
    It is not about PLAYERS, the lag I pointed too, but NPC ships.
    MASSES of NPC ships... :P

    The ungodly amount of visual spam doesn't help either.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    If we're talking about battlezone populations... reducing the player populations isn't exactly viable when you need to hit a certain threshold on an event, such as knocking out the planet killers in Undine. While power creep is a thing in STO, and older content feels it the most, not everyone is capable of that.

    And then we have mechanics to consider as well. Speaking of... I think the Tzenkethi Battlezone's still borked. Last time I went in there, it was STILL basically on a timer rather than how the other zones function where you can actually stop a zone from flipping red. Don't really know why they decided to change from mechanics that worked to a timer that makes it virturally impossible to complete the zone and trigger the boss phase.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    The Voth contested zone, Nimbus 3 and possibly other locations attract a lot of players nowadays due to the personal endeavours.

    Most of these locations only have a handful of instances, and up to 20 people in them. This maximum number of players needs to be reduced, so that new instances are created faster.

    Two or three good players can practically solo an instance of the contested zone. When there are 20, it becomes more of a challenge to find a ship to fight, rather than to fight it.

    What is the point of visiting or being told to visit a battlezone or an adventure zone when there are not enough enemies to fight there?

    Why not just increase the spawn rates and amount of spawns based on people in the zone? If the endeavor is for a boss in one of those areas, increase the amount of HP proportionate to the number of people in the zone so everyone has a better chance of tagging it? Increasing the number of instances isn't necessarily going to let folks get endeavors done faster, especially if they don't have the knockdown power and survival to kill things quickly enough.

    That is true.
    The key thing is you want to have a healthy balance where folks are at least required to be conscious at their keyboard, but on the opposite end doesn't allow folks to simply leech either. No matter where you put that bar, there is always going to be individuals that can sneeze in the general direction of stuff and kill it. On the opposite end you can lower skill requirement all the way to the basement of Gre'thor and there will be people who still can't do it. Upping the spawn rates and spawn amounts will better guarantee there is stuff there to shoot. From there, change it to give folks credit for kills if they have done at least 2% of the damage to that foe. Spawning new instances doesn't address the underlying root issues and simply shifts them from one place to another.

    Also true. I'm not opposed to increasing spawn rates and spawns. I'm not sure how feasible or how much more effective that is though.

    More spawns in the contested zone may well have the same effect of the instance taking longer to complete - which seems to be a main reason why people are opposed to the suggested change. If more players are shooting random targets instead of those at the tower, or if they respawn faster around the towers causing them to be lost faster, it's the same effect ultimately.


    Note that we have had threads in the past from people who had trouble completing a mission in the Kobali battlezone, where respawn rates are much higher. As far as I can remember, we never had such threads about the contested zone or Nimbus.


    If it could work, I'm fine with it. There may bring with it the same side effects as creating more instances though.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    What you get when a supposedly multiplayer game has difficulty levels aimed at "random newbies must be able to finish everything with no help."
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    The ungodly amount of visual spam doesn't help either.
    Well that is what I said, indeed.
    Spamming NPC ships could be an alternative, but a bad one.
    Hence: halve the amount of players/instance.
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    I'm up for some social distancing in the public zones. It won't make it so that they can't be completed by an average group, either, except for Tzenkethi, which is already that way most of the time. When is the last time that you personally had full participation in all three endgame encounters in Voth, Undine, or Terran Battlezone? It's rare unless you game it by not staying with your first one past about halfway, then hot-footing it to the next one.

    It would be something to try, at least. We can see how it actually reverts before crying doom, and it can always be reverted in the next patch.
    This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    anodynes wrote: »
    I'm up for some social distancing...
    Well said, brother.
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    There are only 5 people in most TFOs, can't reduce that. BZs are 15.

    As far as the Gorn on Nimbus is concerned, you need to view it in reverse. ;)

    Social Zones reduction would reduce the chance of a chucklehead appearing there throwing a Party Amplifier. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • cirran1cirran1 Member Posts: 230 Arc User

    Just cap DPS, that way when you have a full instance more folks actually can enjoy themselves. Have the cap scale to the number of folks present. Few folks present higher cap, full instance cap at the DPS of tier 12 white items. Just using arbitrary numbers for illustration purposes.

    Cirran
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    There are only 5 people in most TFOs, can't reduce that. BZs are 15.

    As far as the Gorn on Nimbus is concerned, you need to view it in reverse. ;)

    Social Zones reduction would reduce the chance of a chucklehead appearing there throwing a Party Amplifier. :)

    TRIBBLE far as social zones go, for our role playing community I'd like to see some instances dedicated to them. Ones you can't beam directly into, but instead have to manually select to get into. For example of an rp instance like this, ESD-RP #1.

    Granted, this would open such instances up to the "Play the game the way I want, instead of the way you want." crowd. But, them having to manually select to enter these instances for that purpose, makes the intent to harass the role players quite clear. In turn, making it easier for the GM's to clear up some of these chuckleheads.

    As far as the discoballs though, get a subspace party nullifier, then all you're left with is the light show.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    All my Characters get that as one of their first GPL purchases.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    cirran1 wrote: »
    Just cap DPS, that way when you have a full instance more folks actually can enjoy themselves. Have the cap scale to the number of folks present. Few folks present higher cap, full instance cap at the DPS of tier 12 white items. Just using arbitrary numbers for illustration purposes.

    Cirran

    That would effectively punish people for doing well and place an artificial barrier on performance in a run. At that point why even try to do better. I pull 100k on my tank in space at the moment. Anyone in this game if they put forth the time and effort can get there as well. The problem isn't the DPS in space in this instance. Gear means nothing if you don't know how to use it.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    I guess a lot of players are not interested by chasing dps, only needed to do again, again and again the same c... . They use their time of playing for something else!
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    Nimbus III isn't really an issue. I'd leave it as is. I somewhat agree on the contested zone. 5 or 10 players would be just fine.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 530 Arc User
    Well I spend allot of my time in battlezones when I am here on sto. Here is a run down, and some facts that people do not want to talk about.

    Terran space battle zone, unless you have a maxed gear ship, and everything is interconnected, it can not be soloed in its entirety . As a result its numbers must remain as is.

    Voth ground battle zone, is fine as is, only thing it needs is the three end bosses need a whole heck of allot more health added to them. No need for anything else.

    Voth space zone flimsy, but back in the day tough as nails, now not so much.

    Undine space zone, part difficult, and part easy. Leave as be.

    Delta rising excellent ground battle zone. No need to adjust numbers here. The only problem is its phases has a habit of buging out at times, and it does not reward elite marks after you complete it one time through for the story. Again I would not mess with the numbers here.

    Nimbus three leave it be. The gorn area can be a pain if the traffic is heavy, other then that its fine.

    Dominion space battle zones, no real opinion as I never really messed with them. I did not like the way they were set up in game. I always felt that rep could have used a strong ground battle zone.

    As for stfs. The problem is not the numbers or the stfs. The problem is that during delta rising this game started lock boxing key bridge officer abilities. Namely one seriously over powering aoe. Though aoes were on the rise even before this, they are the main problem in the game right. Not just tacticals but all around. A strong aoe team can crush a space stf without even breaking a sweat. Target to target forces a team to use a stfs mechanics to win, aoes do not.

    Lastly no offense op, this is not directed at you per say, but a opinion of one player I wish to voice. Threads like this have a bad habit of assuming everyone's ship is on the same level. This is not the case so it is far more difficult to gage content. If your ships is fully upgraded, and fully integrated then yes it may appear that there is too many players in battle zones and stfs, but if your ship is not anywhere near that point then no it will not appear that there is too many players in battle zones, or stfs.

    In the end, I am not sure what purpose this thread serves.
This discussion has been closed.