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✯✯✯ STAR TREK PICARD ✯✯✯ (reactions and discussion WITH SPOILERS)

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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    reyan01 wrote: »
    To address those points, with my own opinions:

    The Borg drones blown into space - there wasn't really anything for them to latch onto; I have little doubt Seven would've utilised them if there was any way of doing so. Furthermore, once she disconnected herself from the 'mini-collective' she formed she rendered those drones useless anyway.
    But no defense for the useless Zombie grapple thing.

    Seven made a big deal about wanting to save those drones which led her to become the mini-queen. She then sent remaining drones on a kill mission against the Romulans. Seven appears to have control of the cube and is even sending into a regeneration cycle.
    It seems really bizzare for Seven to just disconnect and consider those drones 'lost' when they can quite likley be salvaged. The drones will be fine, Borg cubes have transporters and bringing back an army of drones is kinda going to be helpful when your trying to retake a Borg cube.

    This would have played a lot better if the Romulans had used their ships to start shooting the spaced drones.
    That said, the Romulans had an entire fleet sitting outside the cube that appear to be doing nothing while Seven of Nine is actively taking over the cube.
    The Romulan 'Jad Vash' Sister states she wants to kill the Borg so... you have a fleet outside. Blow it up.

    reyan01 wrote: »
    Elnor: I can kinda forgive this. He is an excellent 'ninja' but what he lacks is resources. He has no ship and carries no tech and was on a Borg cube full of angry Romulans who wanted him dead.
    Jad Vash: This WAS confusing since they DID throw a grenade(?) of some sort initally.

    The Ninja is unforgivable and stupid.
    Picard dumped him almost immediately and he has had little purpose beyond waving around a sword in a setting which has technology that would render him impotent.
    The guy was literally cowering in a corner of Hugh's office. That seems like the worst place to hide in a cube full of people looking for you that just killed Hugh.

    It is funny enough the entire situation could have been avoided if Elnor had just left with Picard. He had no reason to stay and by doing so actually made the situation worse. Hugh would have been fine on his own due to the protection and even if they are going to kill Hugh. Elnor has no ability to stop it.
    One Ninja versus the entire Romulan Empire stationed on a Cube... this guy is an idiot and the writing abysmal.

    reyan01 wrote: »
    Even the scenarion you refer to in 'Paradise Lost' wasn't as bad as what Starfleet seems to have become because in that case it was clear that not everyone (Captains Sisko and Benteen) agreed with Admiral Leyton whereas, so far as we can tell, no-one really objects to the deplorable lengths Starfleet will take to enforce its anti-synth law.
    Its sad really - when they arrived at the Synth homeworld I did initially think "wow - hope Picard called Starfleet and tells them to divert those ships. But then realised that the Starfleet of this era would probably just glass the planet.

    Just watch... the Federation Admiral will send the fleet and it turns out they have orders to kill all the Synths.
    I.E X-Men when the Americans decide to bomb the beach

    I am also calling that Seven is going to die.
    "Anika" still has "Something" to do... foreshadowing plus an obvious setup for a confronation with the Jad Vash agent.

    Still don't agree regarding Elnor. I mean, keep in mind that not much time as actually passed since he arrived on the cube and he wasn't exactly given a tour - he was literally taken from point A to point B. Also keep in mind that the Queen's room appears to have been mostly unknown, therefore unfamiliar ground to many of the 'police' too. He may also have been banking on Seven using the trajector (which may still happen).

    And yeah, as I said, I really don't think it'd be a good thing for the Admiral's fleet to show up at the newfound Synth planet.


  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    So...
    7 Takes control of the cube, does NOT prevent (though she could) the place being vacumed (pun intended), nor fails to get the drones back?
    Drones survive in open space (as seen before), cubes can transport 500 drones at any given moment, have I missed something here?

    Thoughts?
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  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    I'm guessing the borg queen kept them alive or their implants gave them temp ability to survive within space more a specialty borg thing then a common borg thing. My guess specialized implants. The borg on the cube were dormant or in a regenerative state they were also disconnected borg that Seven tried to form into a mini collective. Seven of Nine isn't a Borg Queen. The Romulans seemed to have come up with adequate security measures to make sure the Borg couldn't retake the cube. By Spacing them they eliminate a lot of the threat. I'm guessing without an actual borg queen the borg can't just run in the vastness of space without some type of life support. Since these borg had no actual collective pretty much it most likely killed them. So I think this would be the best way to explain it.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,356 Arc User
    This belongs in 10 Forward, not here.
  • awlaforgeawlaforge Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Five words: Get rid of Alex Kurtzman. He is a relic of when someone who knows nothing and cares less for Star Trek was in charge of it.

    In my opinion, Cryptic's writers have written stories more coherent and true to the spirit of Star Trek than anything on CBS All Access. I honestly hope they don't try to integrate this dumpster fire called Piccard into STO more than they "have to".
  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,440 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    @causalityeffect , it’s Zhat Vash. ;)

    I do think you’re right about Seven too. This show is about Picard, and they’ve already shown they’ll happily kill off important characters (Hugh) so I wouldn’t be surprised if Seven doesn’t meet her end before the season is up, though it’ll be a shame if she does indeed die.

    Also, regarding this Federation fleet, when and where ever it does show up; I hope it’s a mixture of known and new vessels, the odd Galaxy, an Akira, maybe even a Luna or Vesta Class.

    I’d quite happily not want to see a Miranda or Excelsior in the mix though - those things should be in the scrap yard by now!

    Speaking of a corrupt Starfleet too; hasn’t this always been the case in some form of another? We’ve had Section 31 operable in three shows already, and they answer to Starfleet.

    Every government is, to some degree, most likely corrupt, it just varies on the extensively of that corruption. The Federation for all its good, shouldn’t be any different.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,894 Arc User
    kiksken wrote: »
    So...
    7 Takes control of the cube, does NOT prevent (though she could) the place being vacumed (pun intended), nor fails to get the drones back?
    Drones survive in open space (as seen before), cubes can transport 500 drones at any given moment, have I missed something here?

    Thoughts?
    This isn't a Borg Cube operating at standard Borg levels. It was damaged, the drones were inactive, and the Romulans have spend one or two decades already on it and making it "safe" for them.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,894 Arc User
    except bad science isn't bad writing. look, star trek is set 400 years in the future, by then who knowshow much of our science is obselete? remember just a little over 400 years ago the periodic table didn't exist. and if you talked about elements people would say "earth, fire water, air"

    remember Clark's third law.

    They have not established any changes to the periodic table or other basic science in Star Trek, and frankly there is way too much science behind the periodic table to envision throwing it out, unlike the stuff that people believed before the scientific method. So yes, bad science is bad writing. If you want to make stuff up, great, this is fiction, go for it, but you better explain it to your audience who is using their modern understanding of things to fill in the gaps.
    So.. with the newest episode... anyone else get a SERIOUS mass effect vibe from it?

    What do you mean by this? Please explain for those of us with no interest/experience in Mass Effect games.

    Well, our current scientific understanding cannot explain what the point of Dilithium would be. Lithium is a regular element of the periodic table. Dilithium would suggest a molecule of two Lithium atoms. What special property would that have that wouldn't just respond to antimatter with an annihilation that destroys the antimatter and the Dilithium? How could that form a crystal that acts as a kind of catalyst in a matter/antimatter reaction?

    ENT had an episode where they speak of an alien using elements in their engines that they haven't even put on their periodic table yet. Which is odd, because our current theories on higher mass nuclei might predict some potential future "stable" regions of artificially creatable matter, but nothing that would be stable enough to build something from it. It would at best just be a reaction process.

    So yes, Star Trek definitely has mucked about with the periodic table and even given established elements new features that we have not observed so far.
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  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    Well, our current scientific understanding cannot explain what the point of Dilithium would be. Lithium is a regular element of the periodic table. Dilithium would suggest a molecule of two Lithium atoms. What special property would that have that wouldn't just respond to antimatter with an annihilation that destroys the antimatter and the Dilithium? How could that form a crystal that acts as a kind of catalyst in a matter/antimatter reaction?

    There was a mention in Voyager and several mentions in books that the Federation has discovered a large number of transuranic elements which are both stable and often have unique properties. IIRC there was discussion of "dilithium" being one of these that is in the same group as lithium but in a new row of the periodic table and allegedly (according to the Next Generation Technical Manual) it has magnetic properties that allow the antimatter to be channeled through its crystalline lattice without coming into contact with it so it is useful for aiming the antimatter stream at the matter stream.
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    The Ibn Majid strongly resembled the Emmet Till. If that's on purpose that's a deeper cut than the Kzinti.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    The Ibn Majid strongly resembled the Emmet Till. If that's on purpose that's a deeper cut than the Kzinti.

    According to Michael Chabon, on his Instagram account, the ibn Majid was a Curiosity-class cruiser and not a Emmett Till-type starship.


  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,691 Arc User
    Sad as it is to say, I will be dropping Picard at this point. I am happy for those that enjoy it. The writing is terrible in my opinion and other than Rios, I really do not care for any of the other characters. I wish the show success, it just is not for me. I will wait for season 3 of Discovery.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,845 Arc User
    the display silhouette for the ibn majid makes it look like a sovereign saucer and nacelles attached to a crossfield engineering section

    from that top-down image, it actually looks pretty good​​
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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > According to Michael Chabon, on his Instagram account, the ibn Majid was a Curiosity-class cruiser and not a Emmett Till-type starship.

    Unless the Emmet Till is Curiosity class. They're certainly similar enough that a silhouette and concept art could meet halfway in some beautiful union.
  • causalityeffectcausalityeffect Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    flash525 wrote: »
    Speaking of a corrupt Starfleet too; hasn’t this always been the case in some form of another? We’ve had Section 31 operable in three shows already, and they answer to Starfleet.

    Every government is, to some degree, most likely corrupt, it just varies on the extensively of that corruption. The Federation for all its good, shouldn’t be any different.

    Star Trek Picard is not showing 'corruption' it is doing straight out assassination of the Federation.

    It is incredible a Federation Captain would murder unarmed passengers on their ship.
    It is incredible the Federation Captain did so because he was ORDERED to do so.
    It is beyond incredible the Federation Captain legitimately thought Starfleet would destroy an entire ship for not obeying this order.

    We have seen Starfleet training, we have seen how Starfleet officers are trained to react under fire and we have even seen how they react when forced to engage each other.
    From all that evidence: It is implausible to the point of absurdity this situation occured. The only way it works is if some fantastic revisionist history or straight out narrative abuse is pulled.

    The same kind of revisionism and abuse ST:P has already engaged in by making everything disgusting, grungy, swearing and dark.

    We had a brutal torture scene
    We have had multiple vivid mass execution scenes
    We have had multiple graphic depictions of suicide
    We have had excessive amounts of brutal and graphic murder

    DS9 is often stated as being 'dark' - You can be dark and edgy without having to resort to the methods ST:P is doing.
    The bottom line is this: ST:P is being narratively and cinematically directed by children that seem to have no class or actual ability to do anything but do cheap shock tactics. As a result, they have to fill the screen with excessive amounts of violence to make the villians actually appear villians rather than be subtle.

    DS9 did not need to depict the Cardassians TRIBBLE or mass murdering Bajorans for the message of them being bad to get through.
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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    So, we find out that star fleet intelligence is, literally controled by the Tal Shiar and people are still complaining about starfleet intelligence acting like jerks?
    regarding the federation fleet, I've a hunch we won't see em go bad. I belvie season 1 of Picard is 10 episodes, episode 9 will be Picard and crew arriving on the synth world, convincing them of their good intentions, showing us how the synths have developed etc. we might even see a leader in the form of a "biological data" if we're lucky. (or they could throw a bit of a suprise and reveal the "father" of the androids is actually Lore making us question how safe they are) at the end of the episode, the romulans show up and begin their attack

    season ten ends with the federation arriving and safeing the day, the season ends on a bright spot, with the zhad vash defeated, commadore Oh arrested on some pretty serious charges, the season ends with Picard and co ventering off to explore these 8 worlds and the msytery behind them on the new federation ships USS Normandy....... ok maybe not the bit about the Normandy :)
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    If you aren't happy with Picard or Discovery, then please, write a t.v. screen play for us to watch.

    If you aren't happy with seeing people unhappy with Picard or Discovery, then please create a new forum. No, not really. But that just illustrates how ridiculous that kind of statement is.

    in fairness we've already got a Picard thread. do we really need a buncha "omg I hate this TV show!" threads.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    Besides, just because we saw SOME borg survive in space when specificly sent there does not mean all borg will survive in space always.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,845 Arc User
    where the hell did you get 8 worlds from? it's ONE world surrounded by eight stars​​
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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    where the hell did you get 8 worlds from? it's ONE world surrounded by eight stars​​

    typo actually. but yeah, 8 stars.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,529 Arc User
    If you aren't happy with Picard or Discovery, then please, write a t.v. screen play for us to watch.

    If you aren't happy with seeing people unhappy with Picard or Discovery, then please create a new forum. No, not really. But that just illustrates how ridiculous that kind of statement is.

    in fairness we've already got a Picard thread. do we really need a buncha "omg I hate this TV show!" threads.

    I agree, but I didn't say anything about creating a new thread.

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,032 Community Moderator
    Besides, just because we saw SOME borg survive in space when specificly sent there does not mean all borg will survive in space always.

    Well... normal drones may very well have the capability. The only instance we have of that though is from First Contact. But it does stand to reason that every drone is capable.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    So, we find out that star fleet intelligence is, literally controled by the Tal Shiar and people are still complaining about starfleet intelligence acting like jerks?
    regarding the federation fleet, I've a hunch we won't see em go bad. I belvie season 1 of Picard is 10 episodes, episode 9 will be Picard and crew arriving on the synth world, convincing them of their good intentions, showing us how the synths have developed etc. we might even see a leader in the form of a "biological data" if we're lucky. (or they could throw a bit of a suprise and reveal the "father" of the androids is actually Lore making us question how safe they are) at the end of the episode, the romulans show up and begin their attack

    season ten ends with the federation arriving and safeing the day, the season ends on a bright spot, with the zhad vash defeated, commadore Oh arrested on some pretty serious charges, the season ends with Picard and co ventering off to explore these 8 worlds and the msytery behind them on the new federation ships USS Normandy....... ok maybe not the bit about the Normandy :)

    This seems unlikely.

    Firstly, Starfleet Inteligence doesn't technically come into this. Commodore Oh is Director of Starfleet Security.
    Secondly, Oh's true loyalty is to the Zhat Vash, not the Tal'Shiar.

    As for Starfleet 'saving the day'.... I really don't see it. I mean, we're talking about a Starfleet that:
    - went so far as to order one of their Captain's to kill two innocent (synth) passengers on his ship at the threat of the destruction of said ship and death of her crew. Why the heck would their reaction to an entire PLANET of syths be any better?
    - let a child die (Thaddeus Troi-Riker) because of their paranoia about positronic technology

    I doubt Picard told Admiral F-Bomb about the La Serena's change of course because frankly, as have said, by all accounts Starfleet would probably just nuke the Synth planet.


  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,473 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    So, we find out that star fleet intelligence is, literally controled by the Tal Shiar and people are still complaining about starfleet intelligence acting like jerks?
    regarding the federation fleet, I've a hunch we won't see em go bad. I belvie season 1 of Picard is 10 episodes, episode 9 will be Picard and crew arriving on the synth world, convincing them of their good intentions, showing us how the synths have developed etc. we might even see a leader in the form of a "biological data" if we're lucky. (or they could throw a bit of a suprise and reveal the "father" of the androids is actually Lore making us question how safe they are) at the end of the episode, the romulans show up and begin their attack

    season ten ends with the federation arriving and safeing the day, the season ends on a bright spot, with the zhad vash defeated, commadore Oh arrested on some pretty serious charges, the season ends with Picard and co ventering off to explore these 8 worlds and the msytery behind them on the new federation ships USS Normandy....... ok maybe not the bit about the Normandy :)

    This seems unlikely.

    Firstly, Starfleet Inteligence doesn't technically come into this. Commodore Oh is Director of Starfleet Security.
    Secondly, Oh's true loyalty is to the Zhat Vash, not the Tal'Shiar.

    As for Starfleet 'saving the day'.... I really don't see it. I mean, we're talking about a Starfleet that:
    - went so far as to order one of their Captain's to kill two innocent (synth) passengers on his ship at the threat of the destruction of said ship and death of her crew. Why the heck would their reaction to an entire PLANET of syths be any better?
    - let a child die (Thaddeus Troi-Riker) because of their paranoia about positronic technology

    I doubt Picard told Admiral F-Bomb about the La Serena's change of course because frankly, as have said, by all accounts Starfleet would probably just nuke the Synth planet.

    It doesn't matter if it is Starfleet Security or Starfleet Intelligence, Starfleet has a policy where they can destroy any Starfleet ship they want if the Captain has a spine and doesn't follow the extremely disgusting orders like killing 2 innocents. I expect something like this from Section 31 not Starfleet.
  • gojkovgojkov Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    I believe Star Trek: Picrad is going down the path of Admiral Picard fighting for Starfleet's ideals and honour. My guess is that by the end of the season Picard will bring to light the corruption of Admiral Kirsten Clancy as well as Commander Oh's true loyalty [to the Zhat Vash].

    Latest episode actually shows
    that Zhat Vash isn't Tal'Shiar. They have infiltrated Tal'Shiar as much as Starfleet.

    Furthermore I'm hoping to see Seven of Nine as a leader of a new Cooperative, even for a short while. Perhaps in season two if not this one. But hey, these are all just hopes and dreams. I very much like Star Trek: Picard and will most certainly continue watching it.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,473 Arc User
    gojkov wrote: »
    I believe Star Trek: Picrad is going down the path of Admiral Picard fighting for Starfleet's ideals and honour. My guess is that by the end of the season Picard will bring to light the corruption of Admiral Kirsten Clancy as well as Commander Oh's true loyalty [to the Zhat Vash].

    Latest episode actually shows
    that Zhat Vash isn't Tal'Shiar. They have infiltrated Tal'Shiar as much as Starfleet.

    Furthermore I'm hoping to see Seven of Nine as a leader of a new Cooperative, even for a short while. Perhaps in season two if not this one. But hey, these are all just hopes and dreams. I very much like Star Trek: Picard and will most certainly continue watching it.

    The Zhat Vash not being Tal Shiar was actually mentioned by Picard's Romulan helpers. The Zhat Vash was the bogeyman of the Tal Shiar according to Picard's Romulan helpers. There was no need for the Zhat Vash to infiltrate the Tal Shiar.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    I seem to recall a scene between Narissa and the Romulan Guard involving the ejection of the pods and basically stating that would in effect kill two birds with one stone. They did not expect survival of the drones after ejection.
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  • jslynjslyn Member Posts: 1,717 Arc User
    The Cube was still undergoing repairs. Also, at the time, the Romulans were still evacuating. It would make sense to let them leave and then use the repaired transporters and tractor beams to retrieve the drones. Logically, if Queen Seven tried to get the drones before that, the Romulan fleet could have just shot at the ones that had not yet been reclaimed and killed them.

    ltminns wrote: »
    I seem to recall a scene between Narissa and the Romulan Guard involving the ejection of the pods and basically stating that would in effect kill two birds with one stone. They did not expect survival of the drones after ejection.


    Those were the deactivated droids. The ones that were awake had be to killed manually. They sort of panicked when all of them began to awaken and just quickly got rid of them.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Besides, just because we saw SOME borg survive in space when specificly sent there does not mean all borg will survive in space always.

    Well... normal drones may very well have the capability. The only instance we have of that though is from First Contact. But it does stand to reason that every drone is capable.

    Maybe still you can make all sorts of arguements for and against. If I was tasked with explaining this my explination would be that , for a borg drone to operate in space they'd need to somehow protect their fleshy bits otherwise the fleshy bits would suffer the effects of explosive decompression. we know Borg can project a force field (thats how they handle adaption to energy weapons after all) the logical conclusion is that's how they'd protect from the effects of space. as the drones where deactivated there was no time, or ability for them to have a sheild go up to protect them.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    So, we find out that star fleet intelligence is, literally controled by the Tal Shiar and people are still complaining about starfleet intelligence acting like jerks?
    regarding the federation fleet, I've a hunch we won't see em go bad. I belvie season 1 of Picard is 10 episodes, episode 9 will be Picard and crew arriving on the synth world, convincing them of their good intentions, showing us how the synths have developed etc. we might even see a leader in the form of a "biological data" if we're lucky. (or they could throw a bit of a suprise and reveal the "father" of the androids is actually Lore making us question how safe they are) at the end of the episode, the romulans show up and begin their attack

    season ten ends with the federation arriving and safeing the day, the season ends on a bright spot, with the zhad vash defeated, commadore Oh arrested on some pretty serious charges, the season ends with Picard and co ventering off to explore these 8 worlds and the msytery behind them on the new federation ships USS Normandy....... ok maybe not the bit about the Normandy :)

    This seems unlikely.

    Firstly, Starfleet Inteligence doesn't technically come into this. Commodore Oh is Director of Starfleet Security.
    Secondly, Oh's true loyalty is to the Zhat Vash, not the Tal'Shiar.

    As for Starfleet 'saving the day'.... I really don't see it. I mean, we're talking about a Starfleet that:
    - went so far as to order one of their Captain's to kill two innocent (synth) passengers on his ship at the threat of the destruction of said ship and death of her crew. Why the heck would their reaction to an entire PLANET of syths be any better?
    - let a child die (Thaddeus Troi-Riker) because of their paranoia about positronic technology

    I doubt Picard told Admiral F-Bomb about the La Serena's change of course because frankly, as have said, by all accounts Starfleet would probably just nuke the Synth planet.

    It doesn't matter if it is Starfleet Security or Starfleet Intelligence, Starfleet has a policy where they can destroy any Starfleet ship they want if the Captain has a spine and doesn't follow the extremely disgusting orders like killing 2 innocents. I expect something like this from Section 31 not Starfleet.



    nooo this is Commadore Oh whose behind all this. it's pretty clear to me that thanks to Oh, Starfleet security proably riddled with Tal Shiar moles. I mean, it'd not be hard to destroy a ship if you need to, we all know there are all sorts of back doors programmed into federation vessels like how Kirk managed to order the Reliant to drop it' shields in WOK, and the Omega directive, which can shut an entire ship down until the captain reads a report, etc. is it really hard to belive that there might be a creditable reason to belive starfleet has kill switches? even if it doesn't.. would you want to risk hundreds of your crew on that being a bluff?
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