test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

The removel of an well known NPC from K7 Discussion. (Warning possible Picard Spoilers)

treknadi#8339 treknadi Member Posts: 16 Arc User
edited March 2020 in Ten Forward
So they removed Icheb from the game and replaced him with some random alien, I know why and it still makes me sad.

Do you guys think we will see Icheb ever again maybe in a time travel mission? I would like to have something where I could see him before his unnecessary grusome fate in the Picard series.

How do you all think about it?

(spoiler in title redacted) - darkbladejk
Post edited by treknadi#8339 on
«1

Comments

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,036 Community Moderator
    As Icheb never really had a role in STO's story... we'll see what happens.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Well the role he had in Sto was minor I believe, In fact I really didn't know the importance of him being a well liked Voyager Character till recently. I do think Cryptic is going to try at least align up as much as they can with the Picard Canon. However given the major differences that are very apparent in the show compared to the game they might not be able to do everything from Picard. They will do as much as possible or make it an alternate timeline. I think Removing Icheb and replacing him was rather simple for them do.

    So what I think will happen here is some stuff will be made to match up while other stuff might be made an alternate reality. So its possible they could do both here. I think they want to wait till they know a better extent to what Picard is doing before they do any major stories from Picard. Hence we might see more with Discovery or the Borg Storyline they want to tell this year then stuff from Picard maybe next year have a Picard Focus. Which means a heavily Romulan Focused storyline.

    One thing about Picard content is we will likely see more Romulan content then Starfleet/Federation content with it. Starfleet has little role in the overall storyline. Picard has introduced new romulan ship designs but little to no new Starfleet designs. In fact I don't think there was a new federation ship shown other then the one type of ship that looks like one of the Sto Cardassian tier 6 ships. So that should be interesting to see what Cryptic does with this. Discovery allows them to do more with Starfleet focused Content. Picard does not as the main focus is the Romulans and other spoilers I won't go into here. But it should be considered to be a Romulan Show because that is one of the main focuses of this shows overall storyline.
    Post edited by thevampinator on
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,117 Arc User
    So they removed Icheb from the game and replaced him with some random alien, I know why and it still makes me sad.

    Do you guys think we will see Icheb ever again maybe in a time travel mission? I would like to have something where I could see him before his unnecessary grusome fate in the Picard series.

    How do you all think about it?


    No, I think we'll never see the poor kid again. My take on it is, he has taken on the dubious role of 'Newt' (the sweet little girl in Aliens), who then turns out to be brutally slaughtered in Alien 3. C'est la vie! Done for shock effect, and to elicit a faux sense of realism.
    I7edZ33.jpg
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    tenor.gif
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,295 Arc User
    The Title could use some tightening up as it is, in itself, a spoiler. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    So they removed Icheb from the game and replaced him with some random alien, I know why and it still makes me sad.

    Do you guys think we will see Icheb ever again maybe in a time travel mission? I would like to have something where I could see him before his unnecessary grusome fate in the Picard series.

    How do you all think about it?


    No, I think we'll never see the poor kid again. My take on it is, he has taken on the dubious role of 'Newt' (the sweet little girl in Aliens), who then turns out to be brutally slaughtered in Alien 3. C'est la vie! Done for shock effect, and to elicit a faux sense of realism.

    There was a reason why the little girl was killed off in aliens 3 don't even have to look it up to know the reason as we all have experienced it. Because of the growing up factor they would have had to replace the child actor. I think they didn't want to do this. So they would have to recast her and given the way they ended aliens two where Ripley was in the cryosleep bed with the child similar to the ending of the first alien movie with Ripley and the cat. Cats are easier to work with. Human Children not so much because they will and do age and grow up. Hence they had to find a way to explain why that child is not there and since the child was with Ripley in the Cryosleep tube they likely decided to just kill the child off as the best way to continue the story instead of having to explain why the child looks like a 15/16 year old or looks nothing like the child in Aliens.

    So to explain this better I looked up the relevant information.
    Aliens was released in July 14, 1986 Aliens 3 was not released till May 22, 1992. Given the actress was born in 1976. She would have been nine or ten years old. Given the time gap is 5 or 6 years after aliens the actress for Newt during the development for Aliens 3 would be at least 14/15 or 16 years old. Given the growth period in humans they didn't have the means to realistically have her come back for that role. If they made the aliens 3 movie immediately after Aliens. They could have kept her alive as she would still look very much like a child that it could be explained away. However they waited Five or Six years to do another Aliens movie. So that was possibly the core issue with adding in Newt for the movie.

    I doubt they did what they did to Icheb for the same reasons they killed off Newt in Aliens 3. Aliens 3 had a literal real life time gap problem that made using Newt again with the same child actress extremely difficult to do. This day and age they can make actors appear much younger or as they did in their youth so not so much of an issue when it comes to teens/adults. It still might still harder to do when having child actors as I don't know if they can alter voices to appear more child like. So I think most shows or movies would have another child actor take up the role in later installments of their respective show or movies or Series of movies because of the reasons listed. Like the Resident Evil movies with the Red Queen. Who had various child actors likely for the same reason.

    Aliens 3 Newt dieing and Icheb are not any way related not even close. I can see the reasons why they did it for Aliens. For Picard I think it was meant to motivate the type of Seven of Nine they wanted to portray without having to kill off a major character from Voyager to do so. So they went with someone that would be really close to Seven an xborg like her. That meant Icheb got sacrificed for the Seven of Nine I will have my revenge plot. Like they did with Kirk's Son in the Search for Spock. I think it was more inspired from Star Trek 3 then Aliens.

    Post edited by thevampinator on
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 2,814 Community Moderator
    /moved
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • treknadi#8339 treknadi Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    So changes the Title of the topic to something more cryptic because I believe that just replacing the name Icheb with the word "SPOILER" was not the best solution from the mods.
    One thing about Picard content is we will likely see more Romulan content then Starfleet/Federation content with it. Starfleet has little role in the overall storyline. Picard has introduced new romulan ship designs but little to no new Starfleet designs. In fact I don't think there was a new federation ship shown other then the one type of ship that looks like one of the Sto Cardassian tier 6 ships. So that should be interesting to see what Cryptic does with this. Discovery allows them to do more with Starfleet focused Content. Picard does not as the main focus is the Romulans and other spoilers I won't go into here. But it should be considered to be a Romulan Show because that is one of the main focuses of this shows overall storyline.

    I hope that ships and characters like Seven of Nine in her new outfit for some missions will be the only picard content we get, the content of the Picard show is way to dark and depressing for my taste to be honest.
    Aliens 3 Newt dieing and Icheb are not any way related not even close. I can see the reasons why they did it for Aliens. For Picard I think it was meant to motivate the type of Seven of Nine they wanted to portray without having to kill off a major character from Voyager to do so. So they went with someone that would be really close to Seven an xborg like her. That meant Icheb got sacrificed for the Seven of Nine I will have my revenge plot. Like they did with Kirk's Son in the Search for Spock. I think it was more inspired from Star Trek 3 then Aliens.

    There circulate a lot of rumors right now about why the killed of Icheb in the show, some believe it was just a unnecessary shock moment to make the show dark and gritty, what speaks for that is that Sevens revenge plot was solved extremly quick from a audience perspective, the other main rumor I have seen a lot is that it was done for political/personal reasons and that Alex Kurtzman wanted to "Punish" Manu Intiraymi by killing the character he once played in an ultra voilent way, because of the twitter thing with Anthony Rapp that happend 2017 or one of the other comments he made on twitter.


    Sooooo to come back to the topic... this game has a lot of time travel and Quanten Universe plotlines so that could a possibility to bring him back at least in some way at some point even if it will happen realy late.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,179 Arc User
    The scene was disgusting. Removing him from STO is unnecessary. You want to say "real" Icheb is dead, okay. Make our Icheb from another universe or some other duplicate. Make a mission for it, there's a way to make people feel good, populating our universe with Icheb again.

    STP seems willing to kill off characters at the drop of a hat so I don't particularly think STO should be taking much from it because of that. It is too likely to mess up the story.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    My opinion is that STO is now an alternate universe from Prime, with the deviation happening sometime after Nemesis, so there's really no reason he couldn't be brought back in some way if they had a use for him. He was never more than an Easter Egg though so I kind of doubt it, I mean they didn't even take the time to create his actual Borg implant so the NPC they removed didn't really look like him anyway.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    QIBp95C.png
  • warmonger360warmonger360 Member Posts: 406 Arc User
    icheb was in STO?
    WE SURVIVE!

    aut vincere aut mori pro imperio
    either to conquer or to die for the Empire
  • joshmauljoshmaul Member Posts: 327 Arc User
    the other main rumor I have seen a lot is that it was done for political/personal reasons and that Alex Kurtzman wanted to "Punish" Manu Intiraymi by killing the character he once played in an ultra voilent way, because of the twitter thing with Anthony Rapp that happend 2017 or one of the other comments he made on twitter.

    I heard that rumor too (and having read the tweet in question, that was rather sickening what he said, too... it's like telling an abuse victim even 25 years out to just "get over it")... I don't know if that had any real bearing on the decision, but who knows.
    i2G6X0u.jpg
    "Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that we must do that thing."
    - Federation President Ra-ghoratreii, Khitomer Conference opening ceremony, 2293

    Real Join Date: October 2010
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,117 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    So they removed Icheb from the game and replaced him with some random alien, I know why and it still makes me sad.

    Do you guys think we will see Icheb ever again maybe in a time travel mission? I would like to have something where I could see him before his unnecessary grusome fate in the Picard series.

    How do you all think about it?


    No, I think we'll never see the poor kid again. My take on it is, he has taken on the dubious role of 'Newt' (the sweet little girl in Aliens), who then turns out to be brutally slaughtered in Alien 3. C'est la vie! Done for shock effect, and to elicit a faux sense of realism.

    There was a reason why the little girl was killed off in aliens 3 don't even have to look it up to know the reason as we all have experienced it. Because of the growing up factor they would have had to replace the child actor.


    Or simply not use Newt in Alien 3 at all, making your point kinda moot. :) I still think it was for shock effect.

    I also do, indeed, believe, icheb was there in Picard to lend a reason for Seven's need or revenge.
    I7edZ33.jpg
  • treknadi#8339 treknadi Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    icheb was in STO?

    Yes on K7 you could get some Daily PVP Quests from him.

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Icheb

    He has been replaced with some random Alien called "Vintrax."
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    If you think that's bad, just imagine how jacked STO's questlines would be if Picard decides Seven needs to get tribbled to death by the tribblewolves--which wouldn't surprise me a bit.
  • treknadi#8339 treknadi Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    If you think that's bad, just imagine how jacked STO's questlines would be if Picard decides Seven needs to get tribbled to death by the tribblewolves--which wouldn't surprise me a bit.

    Something similar already happend to a different character that appeared in Picard.

  • mez83mez83 Member Posts: 232 Arc User
    There is more to Seven than just "revenge" She's more cynical now, she and Icheb was out there trying to help the Romulans, and then they were betrayed by someone they trusted.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,036 Community Moderator

    Something similar already happend to a different character that appeared in Picard.

    To be fair to Hugh... in STO he appeared in his still fully assimilated TNG appearance originally. And his patrol wasn't a main story mission.
    If we get a new mission with Hugh, it will most likely use his Picard appearance.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • treknadi#8339 treknadi Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »

    Something similar already happend to a different character that appeared in Picard.

    To be fair to Hugh... in STO he appeared in his still fully assimilated TNG appearance originally. And his patrol wasn't a main story mission.
    If we get a new mission with Hugh, it will most likely use his Picard appearance.
    Hugh has been killed of in Picard like Icheb, so the only way he could appear now would be in a Time Travel Scenario.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,036 Community Moderator
    I'm 3 episodes behind. Give me a break...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,245 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I'm 3 episodes behind. Give me a break...

    No. You must be current and be into all the minutia of everything...duh.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »

    Something similar already happend to a different character that appeared in Picard.

    To be fair to Hugh... in STO he appeared in his still fully assimilated TNG appearance originally. And his patrol wasn't a main story mission.
    If we get a new mission with Hugh, it will most likely use his Picard appearance.
    Hugh has been killed of in Picard like Icheb, so the only way he could appear now would be in a Time Travel Scenario.

    You're assuming STO is in the same timeline / universe as STP, which I find HIGHLY unlikely. It's only a matter of time until the show does something that conflicts with STO so much that there's simply no way for the devs to reconcile the two, at which point we will finally get an official acknowledgment that STO is an alternate universe. Once that happens they can do whatever they want again, including bring back Icheb or Hugh without the use of time travel.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    QIBp95C.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,036 Community Moderator
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    No. You must be current and be into all the minutia of everything...duh.

    Yea... well... not my choice to be behind. The friend who's been organizing watch parties got slammed by RL something fierce.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • joshmauljoshmaul Member Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    You're assuming STO is in the same timeline / universe as STP, which I find HIGHLY unlikely. It's only a matter of time until the show does something that conflicts with STO

    It conflicted with STO in the very first episode. The first episode said that the memory transfer from Data to B-4 before his death in Nemesis failed. In STO's timeline (and the "Countdown" comics that tie into the first JJ-verse movie), not only did it actually take hold, but Data became captain of the Enterprise-E. Picard was also never promoted to the Admiralty in the STO timeline; he had actually retired to become ambassador to Vulcan. Androids were not banned, they were not mass produced as cheap slave labor (that bit ticks me off because it completely invalidated the whole premise of the TNG episode "The Measure of a Man", in which the rights of Data - and presumably other androids - were established to avoid this), and they certainly did not destroy Utopia Planitia and light a fire on Mars that still burned 15 years later, otherwise how could we have built the Enterprise-F there in STO?

    And let's not get started on the fanatical Vulcan-Romulan anti-android cult.
    i2G6X0u.jpg
    "Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that we must do that thing."
    - Federation President Ra-ghoratreii, Khitomer Conference opening ceremony, 2293

    Real Join Date: October 2010
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,295 Arc User
    STO was 'written' for a 25th Century Star Trek universe finishing up plot threads from the shows and trying to create consistent new storylines. Picard is written as an allegory to current 'injustices', etc.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    what amuses me is that STO has actually killed as many characters as Picard, if not more, off the top of my head they wacked Kahless, and Alexander.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    joshmaul wrote: »
    You're assuming STO is in the same timeline / universe as STP, which I find HIGHLY unlikely. It's only a matter of time until the show does something that conflicts with STO

    It conflicted with STO in the very first episode.

    Yes, I know and I 100% agree with you, however the devs keep trying to adapt to it anyway as evidenced by the removal of Icheb, that's why the portion you cut out from my quote went on to say "so much that there's simply no way for the devs to reconcile the two" because until a major conflict occurs that simply can't be ignored or changed the devs are going to keep pretending that STO is part of the STP / Prime universe which is a huge mistake imo.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    QIBp95C.png
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,378 Arc User
    I honestly hope 'Picard' doesn't bring back too many characters from previous series - doing so seems to involve either A: the character's death or B: tragic backstory.


  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,179 Arc User
    what amuses me is that STO has actually killed as many characters as Picard, if not more, off the top of my head they wacked Kahless, and Alexander.

    Yes, but their deaths were heroic and meaningful.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,378 Arc User
    what amuses me is that STO has actually killed as many characters as Picard, if not more, off the top of my head they wacked Kahless, and Alexander.

    Yes, but their deaths were heroic and meaningful.

    Actually, that is one of the issues I take with the deaths of Icheb and Hugh. Neither were heroic or meaninful. Icheb died, horribly, to give Seven a casus belli and Hugh ended up being, as the EAS review stated "a one-dimensional victim who is killed by a one-dimensional villain".


Sign In or Register to comment.