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✯✯✯ STAR TREK PICARD ✯✯✯ (reactions and discussion WITH SPOILERS)

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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    (response to redacted post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    #TASforSTO
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Certain people in here need to dial it way back. Take a deep breath and relax. Yall are free to debate but for the love of Q keep it civil. if yall can't keep it civil then you should agree to disagree and move on or take it to the cracked planetoid.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    tigeraries wrote: »
    why are people referencing eps from Next Gen to this Picard? This IS alt universe version from Next Gen. In Next Gen it clearly states that humans/Earth have moved past money and poverty and the like. You can't have homeless on Earth unless it's in an alt universe from Next Gen. That was the point of Star Trek from Roddenberry, that Earth/Humans have moved past race, sex, money & nations... Star Trek was a shinning beacon of hope.

    Who was homeless in Federation territory in Picard?
    How can Doctor Crusher get something charged to her account on the Enterprise in Encounter at Farpoint when the Federation has moved past money?

    I think it's really easy to understand what's going on with "Money".
    • Inside the Federation, you don't need money (unless, presumably, you want something illegal).
    • Outside the Federation, you do, unless the place you visit happens to work exactly like the Federation (even for outsiders).
    Hence no surprise that Beverly needs to pay for some clothes on a non-Federation world like Farpoint, or you need to pay someone like Rios money so he transports you to areas outside Federation space, but you don't need money to eat at Sisko's.

    I hope you're not just trying to be disingenuous, because if I want that, I can just watch a re:View from Red Latter Media or something like that, they'll probably be funnier because they actually do this kind of stuff more or less professionally

    It is actually simpler than that. The Federation uses credits and a basic living stipend, but the system does not need people to carry around artifacts like credit cards or tokens because the sensor technology is good enough at vending stations that establishing identity is trivial.

    And since they are post-scarcity the cost of most basic goods would be just as trivial, it is only luxuries that would require much of an expenditure, and peer pressure has turned against conspicuous consumption so people only want a limited amount of those. In fact, part of the post-scarcity comes from Federation society not having to support an elite hording class that locks away a significant amount of the economy like we have to deal with today.

    Most everyday goods come out of replicators (or fabricators/synthesizers back in the mid 2200s) so the economy is not dependent upon people manufacturing things manually all day and taking home a wage, most manually put together things are either cutting edge defense stuff like ships or craft goods that are as much a hobby as they are goods. And even then, people make things like ships as much for pride and the challenge than they are for economic reasons.

    As Picard said to the 20th century people they rescued from the freeze tubes in "The Neutral Zone", the motivation to work comes from a desire for self-fulfillment and personal growth rather than an abstract competition to amass more wealth than others.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Unfortunately (maybe? idk...) not all "differences" in characterization actually have an "in universe" explanation. Some of these "uncharacteristic" things people are discussing are simply due to the REAL LIFE people writing this show being very different people with very different ideas than the people who wrote the previous shows/movies.

    So in those situations, there is simply never going to be an "in universe" explanation for why a certain character seems to be behaving UNLIKE that character "normally" would.

    The-Grand-Nagus
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    valoreah wrote: »
    I do not buy the whole "frightened old man" bit either. He had no issue helping to fight off Romulans attacking his home and has been gung ho to go back out into space on a secret mission.

    Romulans are one thing. Being on a Borg Cube is another.
    We've seen Picard lose it when facing the Borg, specifically in First Contact. Hell... he got called out on it by someone from the past, calling him Ahab.

    Romulans he can handle. Romulans he can understand. Romulans didn't turn him into Locutus of Borg.

    Being inside a Borg Cube, as well as being confronted by memories of his time as Locutus, probably not so much. Especially if you spent years suppressing that trauma under duty, and now no longer have that luxury of hiding behind a uniform.
    Picard's scars are showing now more than ever, and he doesn't have his crew to support him. He's pretty much alone. No Riker to talk to, no Guinan to confide in... closest he's got is Raffi and... I don't think she'd cut it.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I think it was Saving Private Ryan where a lot of vets who had been completely fine for 50+ years, suddenly had PTSD breakdowns when they saw that movie because of its much more realistic combat portrayal.

    I'm of the opinion that FC Picard was agitated for different reasons, yet I can still believe him having a sudden and unexpected breakdown with a particular stimulus he hasn't had to deal with before, like being in a Borg cube again. It is plausible.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    He clearly says in the latest STP episode that it's not the Borg themselves that he's afraid of in the episode but the Cube itself, because he hasn't been on one since BoBW. The last time he was on one of these ships he suffered an extremely traumatic and life changing event, so it's perfectly normal for him to react the way he did.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    It seemed to me that the moment Picard really "lost it" for a moment was when he passed over the little bridge over that chasm. That can already be a frightening experience for someone without any of the other details that exist on the Cube, without having ever encountered a Borg. Nothing the Borg had on the Enterprise. They "only" build a few alcoves...
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Guy's, that thing about cooling your jets wasn't a suggestion. I would hate to see this thread get locked because some folks can't play nicely
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    > @valoreah said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > This is kind of why I believe the writing is bad. Picard is not afraid of the Borg, but of the ship? That does not make a whole lot of sense to me at least. Drones can assimilate him. What exactly is the ship going to do?

    Because he’s back on a cube...similar to the one he was assimilated on...where his PTSD started.
    Think of a US Vietnam vet that experienced trauma in Vietnam. The Vet develops PTSD. He may be uneasy around guns and people in uniform but he will be triggered if he returns to that place he experienced his trauma.
    Picard has dealt with the Borg before. He’s been to the hive they’ve set up on the E. However he has never set foot on a Borg cube since his assimilation. That was bound to be triggering.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    He clearly says in the latest STP episode that it's not the Borg themselves that he's afraid of in the episode but the Cub
    e itself, because he hasn't been on one since BoBW. The last time he was on one of these ships he suffered an extremely traumatic and life changing event, so it's perfectly normal for him to react the way he did.

    This is kind of why I believe the writing is bad. Picard is not afraid of the Borg, but of the ship? That does not make a whole lot of sense to me at least. Drones can assimilate him. What exactly is the ship going to do?

    wait you're arguging that Picard having an emotional response to something didn't make sense? I'm going to let my science officer handle this one

    Emotions.jpg

    there's no logic to emotions, Picard had the worst most tramatic moment of his life on a borg cube. of course it's going to impact him.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    (flame/troll/discussion of moderation removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on

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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    do we know, what Picard saw or felt, when he was Locutus? A trauma can be more than just fear. He has experienced something terrible, and he was without a doubt able to see in the depth of the collective: assimilation, invasions, murders and so on.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    (response to redacted post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    do we know, what Picard saw or felt, when he was Locutus? A trauma can be more than just fear. He has experienced something terrible, and he was without a doubt able to see in the depth of the collective: assimilation, invasions, murders and so on.

    Picard had a lot more baggage than he expected. i don't think it was just the cube, it was the whole experience of being assimilated. that all came crash down on him and when he was researching that borg group before transporting to the artifact. one of those images of his past, you can see it in his reactions when he saw himself as Locutus of Borg. he had his hand on the side of his head, almost terrified in a way.

    It proved one thing going back to first contact before the battle of 001, he feared being Borg again, the idea he could turn once again. that Implant popping out of his cheek before waking out of his daydream.

    If he ever gets back to Troi again, i'm sure he'll talk to her about the experience while looking out for Soji as well.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    I don't know "chain of command", if it is a tng episode, well, i have forgotten this episode and the whole tv show; I don't like tng.

    In my opinion, nothing can be as horrible than being assimilated; you are still alive but you have lost the ability to live by yourself; you are just a puppet. And Picard wasn't just a basic drone, he was chosen to be a "leader". I can't imagine all the horrors than the collective shared with him.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    do we know, what Picard saw or felt, when he was Locutus? A trauma can be more than just fear. He has experienced something terrible, and he was without a doubt able to see in the depth of the collective: assimilation, invasions, murders and so on.

    He went through something terrible in "Chain of Command" as well.
    Picard had a lot more baggage than he expected.

    No doubt. The extent of how this baggage was portrayed is what I personally take exception to.

    there's a big differance between Chain of Command and Best of Both worlds. Throughout Chain of Command Picard never really broke, he admitted he came close but he never broke. Best oif both worlds... not only did he "Break" but he couldn't even resist a bit. Chain of command was aweful but BOBW was a special type of hell.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I think it can be argued that being broken to obey authority out of fear of the consequences is worse than being forced into a mental cage that the Borg did.

    The Cardassians let him keep his free will, yet they were trying to get him to betray himself and what he knew to be true, to make him choose to submit. They were very close.

    With the Borg, they just overpowered him. He could not stop it, but he didn't lose himself because he was rescued before too long.

    Whatever is worse, I think that one could expect Picard to have an equally bad PTSD situation where four lights are involved in a similar sort of room.
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