If there are folks willing to buy zen at a rate of 453:1, then it's not too high. If no one was buying at 453, they'd lower the price.
Complain all we want, someone is buying at that rate, or higher! I saw it at 470:1 a few days ago. Value has everything to do with what someone is willing to pay for the service or goods...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
155 - 230 is an insulting amount considering Zen is purchased with real, hard-earned cash. Imo the exchange rate should be permanently locked at 500.
I have to agree! Locking the exchange rate would give Dilithium a stable value. The lower the Dilithium Exchange goes, the less people sell ZEN. The higher it goes, the less people that buy ZEN with Dilithium. Locking the rate would show buyers and sellers of ZEN that it has a static value.
Locking the exchange rate at any particular value would eventually cause less Zen sales for PWE. Let's say they locked it at 500 dilthium/Zen. That might seem fair today to the sellers, but in a few months, when there is something else new added that people have to buy with Zen, that old cap will feel like an artificial ceiling on the amount of dilithium that the Zen seller gets for each Zen that is listed. As mentioned above, this is one of the causes of black markets developing, the other main one being bans on goods entering a country in the real world, like Levi's jeans in the Soviet Union, or illegal drugs in many countries. This is probably the reason that they have taken action twice now when it was in danger of hitting the 500:1 rate and staying there.
I don't believe that kind of nonsense. PWE sells more than enough ZEN regularly and there are ZEN sales regularly. A static value would actually encourage me to buy more ZEN when ZEN is on sale because its worth in Dilithium would still be the same. Black market ZEN and Dilithium isn't a thing because neither can be traded directly to another player. Gold spammers are still quite prominent in the game though, but anyone silly enough to try and obtain a lock box ship, EC, and such from a shady source is just asking for a bad outcome.
That kind of nonsense has been proven out in pretty much every example of price caps in history. It might motivate you, and even quite a few others to buy during sales, but those can only go on so often, and every extra one is revenue lost, on top of the revenue lost when the sales are not happening due to the perception that the ceiling is limiting the value that the purchaser would receive for their Zen. In the end, it doesn't matter if you believe in something so fundamental that it's universally taught in entry-level Economics courses, with plenty of examples to support it, because the developers do. They may have learned it in Economics class, or maybe they learned it from experience with capped-out Zen exchanges in their other games. It doesn't really matter where, though, as the evidence, two interventions that coincided with the exchange flirting with the cap, reassures me that they know this fundamental rule of price caps.
If a black market for Zen doesn't exist now, either some clever person would find a way to implement one, as they always seem to do, or the economy would stagnate, and people would be waiting forever for Zen orders to fill. You are quite right about any unofficial channels for getting these items being shady, though, black markets always are.
How the F2P model is set up is a big factor in the game as well. On the one hand we have STO, which is quite friendly to F2P players. On the other we had Star Wars The Old Republic, that, last time I touched it, you had to give EA $5 just for frakkin' bank access. A BANK! Pretty much a staple service for an MMORPG.
I missed commenting on this earlier, but, yes, you still have to pay 480 Cartel Coins for a per character bank unlock, or 1050 for Legacy-wide (account unlock for that server, but it can be all servers, with a bit of creativity.) but either is pointless now, as buying $10 worth of Cartel Coins, the minimum that they sell, makes you Preferred, which unlocks bank access for your whole account. This may have been part of the F2P changes last year, mind you. One thing that wasn't, though was that you could unlock the Legacy bank, their version of the account bank, for usually very little by merely purchasing one of the capital world strongholds, and now you don't even need to do that, as there's a Legacy storage unit on each of the main hubs. So, apples aren't quite oranges, I guess.
STO probably has the most friendly F2P models out there, though. I wouldn't argue that part. With Legacy unlocks, though, you can get pretty close in TOR with about what you would have paid for the game itself when it was new, plus subscribing for a month with each new expansion. Still has that all-too common annoyance point of a cap on the main currency, though, along with some restrictions on certain end-game activities.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
155 - 230 is an insulting amount considering Zen is purchased with real, hard-earned cash. Imo the exchange rate should be permanently locked at 500.
I have to agree! Locking the exchange rate would give Dilithium a stable value. The lower the Dilithium Exchange goes, the less people sell ZEN. The higher it goes, the less people that buy ZEN with Dilithium. Locking the rate would show buyers and sellers of ZEN that it has a static value.
Locking the exchange rate at any particular value would eventually cause less Zen sales for PWE. Let's say they locked it at 500 dilthium/Zen. That might seem fair today to the sellers, but in a few months, when there is something else new added that people have to buy with Zen, that old cap will feel like an artificial ceiling on the amount of dilithium that the Zen seller gets for each Zen that is listed. As mentioned above, this is one of the causes of black markets developing, the other main one being bans on goods entering a country in the real world, like Levi's jeans in the Soviet Union, or illegal drugs in many countries. This is probably the reason that they have taken action twice now when it was in danger of hitting the 500:1 rate and staying there.
I don't believe that kind of nonsense. PWE sells more than enough ZEN regularly and there are ZEN sales regularly. A static value would actually encourage me to buy more ZEN when ZEN is on sale because its worth in Dilithium would still be the same. Black market ZEN and Dilithium isn't a thing because neither can be traded directly to another player. Gold spammers are still quite prominent in the game though, but anyone silly enough to try and obtain a lock box ship, EC, and such from a shady source is just asking for a bad outcome.
That kind of nonsense has been proven out in pretty much every example of price caps in history. It might motivate you, and even quite a few others to buy during sales, but those can only go on so often, and every extra one is revenue lost, on top of the revenue lost when the sales are not happening due to the perception that the ceiling is limiting the value that the purchaser would receive for their Zen. In the end, it doesn't matter if you believe in something so fundamental that it's universally taught in entry-level Economics courses, with plenty of examples to support it, because the developers do. They may have learned it in Economics class, or maybe they learned it from experience with capped-out Zen exchanges in their other games. It doesn't really matter where, though, as the evidence, two interventions that coincided with the exchange flirting with the cap, reassures me that they know this fundamental rule of price caps.
If a black market for Zen doesn't exist now, either some clever person would find a way to implement one, as they always seem to do, or the economy would stagnate, and people would be waiting forever for Zen orders to fill. You are quite right about any unofficial channels for getting these items being shady, though, black markets always are.
How the F2P model is set up is a big factor in the game as well. On the one hand we have STO, which is quite friendly to F2P players. On the other we had Star Wars The Old Republic, that, last time I touched it, you had to give EA $5 just for frakkin' bank access. A BANK! Pretty much a staple service for an MMORPG.
I missed commenting on this earlier, but, yes, you still have to pay 480 Cartel Coins for a per character bank unlock, or 1050 for Legacy-wide (account unlock for that server, but it can be all servers, with a bit of creativity.) but either is pointless now, as buying $10 worth of Cartel Coins, the minimum that they sell, makes you Preferred, which unlocks bank access for your whole account. This may have been part of the F2P changes last year, mind you. One thing that wasn't, though was that you could unlock the Legacy bank, their version of the account bank, for usually very little by merely purchasing one of the capital world strongholds, and now you don't even need to do that, as there's a Legacy storage unit on each of the main hubs. So, apples aren't quite oranges, I guess.
STO probably has the most friendly F2P models out there, though. I wouldn't argue that part. With Legacy unlocks, though, you can get pretty close in TOR with about what you would have paid for the game itself when it was new, plus subscribing for a month with each new expansion. Still has that all-too common annoyance point of a cap on the main currency, though, along with some restrictions on certain end-game activities.
I understand the difference between a fixed rate and variable rate just fine. With the amount of ZEN that goes up for sale at different exchange rates, they would all be at 500 to 1, which means any conversion, as long as ZEN was there to sell, would be instant. Most players know it isn't possible to trade Dilithium or ZEN from one player to another outside of the Dilithium Exchange. Finding a way would involve breaking how the game works, which I think PWE would notice quickly enough. What sells best, PWE already knows, and I don't believe they release those metrics to the public.
If there are folks willing to buy zen at a rate of 453:1, then it's not too high. If no one was buying at 453, they'd lower the price.
Complain all we want, someone is buying at that rate, or higher! I saw it at 470:1 a few days ago. Value has everything to do with what someone is willing to pay for the service or goods...
CM
The problem is in order to actually bring the exchange prices down, there has to be enough to actually stay down long enough for others to start posting at that price too.
What drives the Exchange is Supply and Demand. Right now there is no demand for Dilithium, so the Zen prices go up. Put in a Demand for Dilithium, and the prices will come down. History has shown that.
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, but some of the scale of their pricing is off like 2m for a costume?? I could see that maybe for a ship, or reclaim gear, but not just a costume. I mean I could be wrong but it would have to be a pretty amazing Costume haha.
Well... the Enterprise era MACO does come with a backpack! A LEGIT backpack! That is in the Chest Gear category.
For all your backpacking needs! *pats the Backpack* You want to wear a form of camoflage as well? Here's your chance! All for the low, low price of 2 million Dilithium! (Or 1.7 mil with a maxed out Fleet Dilithium Mine)
Joking aside... The Costumes had an absolutely MINOR impact on the exchange before we had an event that flooded the market with Dilithium. Or maybe it was a new shiny in the C-Store. I don't remember. All I know is that the exchange rates started to come down, then shot up because of some event that made Zen more desirable.
Not only that, they're character unlocks. Not Account. I'll pay 2 mil GPL for it, but Dilithium is... eh...
Both of those choices would cause a ton of backlash that could be avoided by creating more things in the dilithium store that are worth buying.
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, but some of the scale of their pricing is off like 2m for a costume?? I could see that maybe for a ship, or reclaim gear, but not just a costume. I mean I could be wrong but it would have to be a pretty amazing Costume haha.
Additional 2 million Dil costumes won't have any effect. You'd need something cheaper and consumable like phoenix packs. Something that could be repeatedly sold to large numbers of people.
In all honesty, I've said this before, but phoenix packs are already the answer that they need. Cryptic just needs to slowly add more items to the phoenix pack. Maybe even brand new items that have never been available any other way.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
well...lockbox/lobi and promo ship consoles and traits would be a good start - at least for the ones they haven't already made account-wide, like the miradorn, NX, donnie and TOS connie
since there's no guarantee they're going to eventually be selling the entire stable of premium ships through the c-store, and even if they do, it could take YEARS to get them all in, that would at least be a good stopgap measure, even if ultimately as temporary as the fleet system
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
well...lockbox/lobi and promo ship consoles and traits would be a good start - at least for the ones they haven't already made account-wide, like the miradorn, NX, donnie and TOS connie
since there's no guarantee they're going to eventually be selling the entire stable of premium ships through the c-store, and even if they do, it could take YEARS to get them all in, that would at least be a good stopgap measure, even if ultimately as temporary as the fleet system
What do you think about a hypothetical T5-U Constitution from winning a UR token? With it's own unique (probably weaker) boff layout, unique skin and unique console? I think that would have a huge effect at least for a little while.
EDIT: Or a T5 or even T6 Typhoon. Seriously, simple additions like this could make a huge difference.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
they could use a typhoon, but...that ship is really, REALLY ugly (not pre-remodel jupiter ugly, but close) - it would need something very special about it to make up for that
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
well...lockbox/lobi and promo ship consoles and traits would be a good start - at least for the ones they haven't already made account-wide, like the miradorn, NX, donnie and TOS connie
since there's no guarantee they're going to eventually be selling the entire stable of premium ships through the c-store, and even if they do, it could take YEARS to get them all in, that would at least be a good stopgap measure, even if ultimately as temporary as the fleet system
What do you think about a hypothetical T5-U Constitution from winning a UR token? With it's own unique (probably weaker) boff layout, unique skin and unique console? I think that would have a huge effect at least for a little while.
EDIT: Or a T5 or even T6 Typhoon. Seriously, simple additions like this could make a huge difference.
Zero chance of a Connie. Cryptic isn't going to give up its $200-300 & $250 per Connie (bundle, R&D pack) just to make life better for dil farmers.
they could use a typhoon, but...that ship is really, REALLY ugly (not pre-remodel jupiter ugly, but close) - it would need something very special about it to make up for that
Definitely. They would for sure need to upgrade it.
Zero chance of a Connie. Cryptic isn't going to give up its $200-300 & $250 per Connie (bundle, R&D pack) just to make life better for dil farmers.
Agreed which is why I postulated something different. For the sake of argument, I'll spell out some hypothetical specs to show how much weaker of a ship that I'm talking about. I'll also suggest making it a 9 console T5 ship that will have 10 consoles at T5-U instead of 11 consoles.
Personally, I think something like this would still be enough to draw a good amount of interest without cannibalizing interest in the "real deal" promo box ships. And I'm not saying any of this out of self interest as I own the promo box TOS Constitution and Legendary Constitutions as well.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
they could use a typhoon, but...that ship is really, REALLY ugly (not pre-remodel jupiter ugly, but close) - it would need something very special about it to make up for that
Definitely. They would for sure need to upgrade it.
Zero chance of a Connie. Cryptic isn't going to give up its $200-300 & $250 per Connie (bundle, R&D pack) just to make life better for dil farmers.
Agreed which is why I postulated something different. For the sake of argument, I'll spell out some hypothetical specs to show how much weaker of a ship that I'm talking about. I'll also suggest making it a 9 console T5 ship that will have 10 consoles at T5-U instead of 11 consoles.
Personally, I think something like this would still be enough to draw a good amount of interest without cannibalizing interest in the "real deal" promo box ships. And I'm not saying any of this out of self interest as I own the promo box TOS Constitution and Legendary Constitutions as well.
The thing is, the Connie skin and T5 / T5-U level would make even a nerfed Connie "good enough" to lose Cryptic a lot of bundle and pack sales. The T1 in the C-Store isn't a problem because it's not good enough for endgame *
I have plenty of traits from my T6 armada, and one console makes no difference for non-Elite content if you're not a DPS chaser.
( * aside from claims by a few that they can do elite content well in a t1 with mark 1 white beams and no consoles. Of course you can guys, I believe you. )
The thing is, the Connie skin and T5 / T5-U level would make even a nerfed Connie "good enough" to lose Cryptic a lot of bundle and pack sales. The T1 in the C-Store isn't a problem because it's not good enough for endgame
I'm not 100% sure that I agree. There is a Fleet T5-U K'tinga with identical stats to what I listed and it's also much easier to get than a UR phoenix, yet it exists and doesn't seem to have any effect on lock box and promo D7's.
Going back to the Typhoon idea, another idea could be the old school original Jupiter class. Sure, I hate it but for some reason a lot of people liked it. Actually, all of the "abandoned" Cryptic ships like the Emissary, Trident, Hegh'ta would be decent ideas for new phoenix T6 ships. Thematically, they do make sense sort of. Since they are "forgotten" old non-canon designs that some people ask for.
New vanity shields is another easy to implement idea.
Also, the oft mentioned idea of making phoenix ships open for buying and selling on the exchange. This gives people that have every ship another reason to open up phoenix packs.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
All those things would more likely end up in muggs market though. They had a system for making the exchange dip but for whatever reason decided to monetise rather than maintain that system. Double dipping on store sales then dumping promo ships onto the game was never going to end well for the health of the exchange, the only thing that stopped it capping out was the "accidental" phoenix week that ended up being permanent on all platforms. Which itself shows lack of sight as the PS4 wasn't suffering from the spike and stagnation that hit PC .
Simply adding console slots is just adding to the issue of worthless power creep, which is a meaningless process for STO as the difficulty plateaus and goes nowhere pretty quickly.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
My Second question is the farming Dil, basically boil down to the number of alts correct? and how much you can grind out 8k dill on each of them a day? Given the amount of time one has in a day between gaming and sleeping? I would say about 5-8 Average Characters a day making the 8k conversion. if they are running 8 a day. 64k Dil a day is quite decent, Also I might add a fresh account gets 8 characters slots... For someone with the time and a new stock account you can average yourself roughly 141 Zen a day.. 987 Zen a week, Geez 4230 Zen or so a month with the current conversion of buying Zen at 453.. for FREE. If someone knows a Niche though on the fastest way to convert the 8k a day then it just gets crazy how much you can make. Seriously even at a cap of 500 Dil for 1 ZEN my mind is kind of blown people are complaining at this.
Making over $40 USD in a Zen a month is pretty sweet. you play for free and make Zen doing it. I do not know of a game that Pays you to play it. for its premium Items...
As someone who's done that, although with only seven characters, pretty much. However I've not been maxing them out every day. Just running Ferengi Admiralty. On average I can make about 100 Zen a day on good days. And that's if I don't use that Dilithium for other things like Rep projects or pushing a bit on a Fleet project.
*points at my sig*
I don't make that claim lightly. I DID grind out those packs. Was a lot of work, even passively via Admiralty, but its doable.
However even I have to admit something like the Legendary Pack may be beyond even my grinding skills. Doable yes, but that would also mean resisting getting anything else until you get the pack.
I am testing a few theory's I have regarding Dil, and "Math" LOL. but the way I see it, in the long run concerning the 500 Dilithium cap...
if it hits 500 and sustains it longer than a day, the cap will probably get removed to something higher within a week. Just my personal prediction. They may try to not let that happen however, but if it locks at 500, they probably will take action in some form or another. Just a gut feeling haha nothing to be concerned about
I know they use to take Action once a year except last year they would pump Zen in at a lower rate cost to reduce the Exchange rate.
I think the best thing they could put in the Dil store and it would be consumable would be a T5-U unlock for 2m Dil ( Roughly ) that would work on any store Tier ship 1-5 because really all those nice model ships below tier 5 are basically sitting their collecting dust! Secondly what I would also like to see is in the account bank a storage feature for Dil, just because I like it all in one place and I wouldn't have to bounce characters to see how much I have total. will that happen though I really doubt it. but non the less it would be really nice!!
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
"Sixty years ago today, Ray Kroc opened his first-ever McDonald’s restaurant in Des Plaines, Illinois. ...
Kroc took out an ad in the Des Plaines Journal touting 15-cent hamburgers, 19-cent cheeseburgers, and 10-cent french fries and sodas. The new “fast food” concept (and maybe the allure of “plenty of free parking”) proved to be immediately successful—Kroc made $366.12 the first day. That’s a lot of 15-cent hamburgers."
Some 100-year old probably thinks paying $5 for a cheeseburger is too high, and 50 cents is the correct price. It's a fact.
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
Uh... Dilithium and the Dilithium Exchange wasn't a thing until around F2P. How does saying you've been around since Alpha and Beta give any weight to the argument when the system in question wouldn't appear for another 2 or so years?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
Uh... Dilithium and the Dilithium Exchange wasn't a thing until around F2P. How does saying you've been around since Alpha and Beta give any weight to the argument when the system in question wouldn't appear for another 2 or so years?
After During and After Closed Beta it was a thing I was playing when this game was not F2P.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
Oh wait I can here is a Screenshot of some of my Exchange History LOL it was as low as 131 dil for zen back in 2014. https://postimg.cc/Mv024vHL
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
Oh wait I can here is a Screenshot of some of my Exchange History LOL it was as low as 131 dil for zen back in 2014. https://postimg.cc/Mv024vHL
Yes, and back then there was no Admiralty or Endeavors, there were not 13 reputations with completion bonuses, no events with 20,000 per day dil bonuses after completion, and more.
Dil supply has increased, also known as inflation.
Go to McDonalds and demand your 19 cent cheeseburger, see how that works for you.
Go to McDonalds and demand your 19 cent cheeseburger, see how that works for you.
I just did that and I got one. Thanks.
FYI, I made the mistake and added fries, so that 19 cent cheeseburger total came to $7.83. They get you on those upgrades EVERY time.
Fleet Admiral Duane Gundrum, U.S.S. Merrimack
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
After During and After Closed Beta it was a thing I was playing when this game was not F2P.
Dilithium and the Dilithium Exchange were introduced around F2P. I started playing about a month or so before that. I still remember the days before Rep was introduced, and we needed salvage tech for our Omega Force gear. When they introduced Dilithium and Reps, the only source was the Borg STFs.
As for saying how low it was in 2014... wasn't that around the time Fleet Starbases were a thing? It makes sense the Exchange rates would be that low because ALL the big fleets, and realistically ALL fleets, needed Dilithium to push construction of their Starbases. Thus a DEMAND for Dilithium was in play, affecting the exchange rates. Dilithium was more valuable because people needed it for Starbase projects.
Today all the big fleets have maxed out all their holdings. There is no demand really.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
Oh wait I can here is a Screenshot of some of my Exchange History LOL it was as low as 131 dil for zen back in 2014. https://postimg.cc/Mv024vHL
Yes, and back then there was no Admiralty or Endeavors, there were not 13 reputations with completion bonuses, no events with 20,000 per day dil bonuses after completion, and more.
Dil supply has increased, also known as inflation.
Go to McDonalds and demand your 19 cent cheeseburger, see how that works for you.
Very much this. The amount of Dil one can acquire now is a lot higher than back when LOR, Delta Rising were new.
I've already voiced my opinions on the exchange rate, however if you want Dil sinks that will have a meaningful impact on the exchange rate then what you need are desirable, repeatable purchase options. My ideas for that would look something like this:
250k dil: instantly complete and reset a 20-hour reputation project (must already have sponsorship unlocked for that reputation) 300k dil: all currently available dil store uniforms (the current prices were always ridiculous for a uniform anyway) 500k dil: select another reward from a single mission you've already completed 500k dil: change a single Bound to Character item to Bound to Account (reputation and unique-equip items excluded) 600k dil: account unlock a currently owned Lobi or Dil store uniform 1 million dil: account unlock a currently owned Vanity Shield 1 million dil: account unlock a currently owned Phoenix Prize Pack ship 1.5 million dil: account unlock a currently owned Lobi Store ship 1.75 Million dil: account unlock a currently owned Lockbox ship 2 Million dil: account unlock a currently owned Promobox ship
I have more ideas, but most of them require solutions to current limitations of the game, such as weapon audio/visual customization, beam/warp out/communicator effects customization, etc.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
Oh wait I can here is a Screenshot of some of my Exchange History LOL it was as low as 131 dil for zen back in 2014. https://postimg.cc/Mv024vHL
...it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
It seems that you actively wish to not care that there's a difference between facts and opinions. Frankly, you're not even worth discussing this with any further.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
Oh wait I can here is a Screenshot of some of my Exchange History LOL it was as low as 131 dil for zen back in 2014. https://postimg.cc/Mv024vHL
...it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
It seems that you actively wish to not care that there's a difference between facts and opinions. Frankly, you're not even worth discussing this with any further.
I agree I just bring this up every other year or so or when I notice it. So Perfect World/Cryptic. Might look and hopefully do something About it. This was said just not for me, I want other new Players to go out and get those new fancy Ships and other items at a reasonable rate.
If a black market for Zen doesn't exist now, either some clever person would find a way to implement one, as they always seem to do
This would never happen because there's no way to direct trade dil or zen. It is simply impossible.
People tend to find ways around seemingly impossible barriers. There are a few things now that you can buy for Zen and trade, but most of them wouldn't work for this. There is the seasonal thing where you buy a token for a ship to gift to someone else that would work, but the limited window of availability means that it would have limited impact. Of course, that was only part of the statement that I made, anyway, the rest of it was that if nobody could crack the option to create a black market for regular Zen items there would just be a small trickle of Zen that immediately gets purchased, and leaves an ever-growing queue of outstanding offers not getting filled.
My Second question is the farming Dil, basically boil down to the number of alts correct? and how much you can grind out 8k dill on each of them a day? Given the amount of time one has in a day between gaming and sleeping? I would say about 5-8 Average Characters a day making the 8k conversion. if they are running 8 a day. 64k Dil a day is quite decent, Also I might add a fresh account gets 8 characters slots... For someone with the time and a new stock account you can average yourself roughly 141 Zen a day.. 987 Zen a week, Geez 4230 Zen or so a month with the current conversion of buying Zen at 453.. for FREE. If someone knows a Niche though on the fastest way to convert the 8k a day then it just gets crazy how much you can make. Seriously even at a cap of 500 Dil for 1 ZEN my mind is kind of blown people are complaining at this.
Making over $40 USD in a Zen a month is pretty sweet. you play for free and make Zen doing it. I do not know of a game that Pays you to play it. for its premium Items...
As someone who's done that, although with only seven characters, pretty much. However I've not been maxing them out every day. Just running Ferengi Admiralty. On average I can make about 100 Zen a day on good days. And that's if I don't use that Dilithium for other things like Rep projects or pushing a bit on a Fleet project.
*points at my sig*
I don't make that claim lightly. I DID grind out those packs. Was a lot of work, even passively via Admiralty, but its doable.
However even I have to admit something like the Legendary Pack may be beyond even my grinding skills. Doable yes, but that would also mean resisting getting anything else until you get the pack.
I am testing a few theory's I have regarding Dil, and "Math" LOL. but the way I see it, in the long run concerning the 500 Dilithium cap...
if it hits 500 and sustains it longer than a day, the cap will probably get removed to something higher within a week. Just my personal prediction. They may try to not let that happen however, but if it locks at 500, they probably will take action in some form or another. Just a gut feeling haha nothing to be concerned about
I know they use to take Action once a year except last year they would pump Zen in at a lower rate cost to reduce the Exchange rate.
See, I'm one of those strange people who asks for things like sources for claims like this. Call me cynical, if you must, but I have a hard time taking someone's word for it.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Comments
Complain all we want, someone is buying at that rate, or higher! I saw it at 470:1 a few days ago. Value has everything to do with what someone is willing to pay for the service or goods...
CM
That kind of nonsense has been proven out in pretty much every example of price caps in history. It might motivate you, and even quite a few others to buy during sales, but those can only go on so often, and every extra one is revenue lost, on top of the revenue lost when the sales are not happening due to the perception that the ceiling is limiting the value that the purchaser would receive for their Zen. In the end, it doesn't matter if you believe in something so fundamental that it's universally taught in entry-level Economics courses, with plenty of examples to support it, because the developers do. They may have learned it in Economics class, or maybe they learned it from experience with capped-out Zen exchanges in their other games. It doesn't really matter where, though, as the evidence, two interventions that coincided with the exchange flirting with the cap, reassures me that they know this fundamental rule of price caps.
If a black market for Zen doesn't exist now, either some clever person would find a way to implement one, as they always seem to do, or the economy would stagnate, and people would be waiting forever for Zen orders to fill. You are quite right about any unofficial channels for getting these items being shady, though, black markets always are.
I missed commenting on this earlier, but, yes, you still have to pay 480 Cartel Coins for a per character bank unlock, or 1050 for Legacy-wide (account unlock for that server, but it can be all servers, with a bit of creativity.) but either is pointless now, as buying $10 worth of Cartel Coins, the minimum that they sell, makes you Preferred, which unlocks bank access for your whole account. This may have been part of the F2P changes last year, mind you. One thing that wasn't, though was that you could unlock the Legacy bank, their version of the account bank, for usually very little by merely purchasing one of the capital world strongholds, and now you don't even need to do that, as there's a Legacy storage unit on each of the main hubs. So, apples aren't quite oranges, I guess.
STO probably has the most friendly F2P models out there, though. I wouldn't argue that part. With Legacy unlocks, though, you can get pretty close in TOR with about what you would have paid for the game itself when it was new, plus subscribing for a month with each new expansion. Still has that all-too common annoyance point of a cap on the main currency, though, along with some restrictions on certain end-game activities.
I understand the difference between a fixed rate and variable rate just fine. With the amount of ZEN that goes up for sale at different exchange rates, they would all be at 500 to 1, which means any conversion, as long as ZEN was there to sell, would be instant. Most players know it isn't possible to trade Dilithium or ZEN from one player to another outside of the Dilithium Exchange. Finding a way would involve breaking how the game works, which I think PWE would notice quickly enough. What sells best, PWE already knows, and I don't believe they release those metrics to the public.
The problem is in order to actually bring the exchange prices down, there has to be enough to actually stay down long enough for others to start posting at that price too.
What drives the Exchange is Supply and Demand. Right now there is no demand for Dilithium, so the Zen prices go up. Put in a Demand for Dilithium, and the prices will come down. History has shown that.
Well... the Enterprise era MACO does come with a backpack! A LEGIT backpack! That is in the Chest Gear category.
For all your backpacking needs! *pats the Backpack* You want to wear a form of camoflage as well? Here's your chance! All for the low, low price of 2 million Dilithium! (Or 1.7 mil with a maxed out Fleet Dilithium Mine)
Joking aside... The Costumes had an absolutely MINOR impact on the exchange before we had an event that flooded the market with Dilithium. Or maybe it was a new shiny in the C-Store. I don't remember. All I know is that the exchange rates started to come down, then shot up because of some event that made Zen more desirable.
Not only that, they're character unlocks. Not Account. I'll pay 2 mil GPL for it, but Dilithium is... eh...
This would never happen because there's no way to direct trade dil or zen. It is simply impossible.
In all honesty, I've said this before, but phoenix packs are already the answer that they need. Cryptic just needs to slowly add more items to the phoenix pack. Maybe even brand new items that have never been available any other way.
since there's no guarantee they're going to eventually be selling the entire stable of premium ships through the c-store, and even if they do, it could take YEARS to get them all in, that would at least be a good stopgap measure, even if ultimately as temporary as the fleet system
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
EDIT: Or a T5 or even T6 Typhoon. Seriously, simple additions like this could make a huge difference.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Zero chance of a Connie. Cryptic isn't going to give up its $200-300 & $250 per Connie (bundle, R&D pack) just to make life better for dil farmers.
Definitely. They would for sure need to upgrade it.
Agreed which is why I postulated something different. For the sake of argument, I'll spell out some hypothetical specs to show how much weaker of a ship that I'm talking about. I'll also suggest making it a 9 console T5 ship that will have 10 consoles at T5-U instead of 11 consoles.
Commander Engineering
Lieutenant Commander Engineering
Lieutenant Tactical
Lieutenant Science
Ensign Tactical
2 Science Consoles
4 Engineering Consoles
3 Tactical Consoles
4 Forward Weapons
4 Rear Weapons
Personally, I think something like this would still be enough to draw a good amount of interest without cannibalizing interest in the "real deal" promo box ships. And I'm not saying any of this out of self interest as I own the promo box TOS Constitution and Legendary Constitutions as well.
The thing is, the Connie skin and T5 / T5-U level would make even a nerfed Connie "good enough" to lose Cryptic a lot of bundle and pack sales. The T1 in the C-Store isn't a problem because it's not good enough for endgame *
I have plenty of traits from my T6 armada, and one console makes no difference for non-Elite content if you're not a DPS chaser.
( * aside from claims by a few that they can do elite content well in a t1 with mark 1 white beams and no consoles. Of course you can guys, I believe you. )
I'm not 100% sure that I agree. There is a Fleet T5-U K'tinga with identical stats to what I listed and it's also much easier to get than a UR phoenix, yet it exists and doesn't seem to have any effect on lock box and promo D7's.
Going back to the Typhoon idea, another idea could be the old school original Jupiter class. Sure, I hate it but for some reason a lot of people liked it. Actually, all of the "abandoned" Cryptic ships like the Emissary, Trident, Hegh'ta would be decent ideas for new phoenix T6 ships. Thematically, they do make sense sort of. Since they are "forgotten" old non-canon designs that some people ask for.
New vanity shields is another easy to implement idea.
Also, the oft mentioned idea of making phoenix ships open for buying and selling on the exchange. This gives people that have every ship another reason to open up phoenix packs.
Simply adding console slots is just adding to the issue of worthless power creep, which is a meaningless process for STO as the difficulty plateaus and goes nowhere pretty quickly.
I wish I could but I know for a fact I have Bought Zen with refined dil for as low as 149 and as High as 250 take note I won't buy any when It is Higher then 250. Fyi I have been playing this Game since Alpha And Closed Beta. and I did Exchange much during that time.
I know they use to take Action once a year except last year they would pump Zen in at a lower rate cost to reduce the Exchange rate.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Times change, also known as "inflation."
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/62573/what-hamburgers-and-milkshakes-cost-mcdonalds-1955
"Sixty years ago today, Ray Kroc opened his first-ever McDonald’s restaurant in Des Plaines, Illinois. ...
Kroc took out an ad in the Des Plaines Journal touting 15-cent hamburgers, 19-cent cheeseburgers, and 10-cent french fries and sodas. The new “fast food” concept (and maybe the allure of “plenty of free parking”) proved to be immediately successful—Kroc made $366.12 the first day. That’s a lot of 15-cent hamburgers."
Some 100-year old probably thinks paying $5 for a cheeseburger is too high, and 50 cents is the correct price. It's a fact.
Uh... Dilithium and the Dilithium Exchange wasn't a thing until around F2P. How does saying you've been around since Alpha and Beta give any weight to the argument when the system in question wouldn't appear for another 2 or so years?
After During and After Closed Beta it was a thing I was playing when this game was not F2P.
Oh wait I can here is a Screenshot of some of my Exchange History LOL it was as low as 131 dil for zen back in 2014.
https://postimg.cc/Mv024vHL
Yes, and back then there was no Admiralty or Endeavors, there were not 13 reputations with completion bonuses, no events with 20,000 per day dil bonuses after completion, and more.
Dil supply has increased, also known as inflation.
Go to McDonalds and demand your 19 cent cheeseburger, see how that works for you.
I just did that and I got one. Thanks.
FYI, I made the mistake and added fries, so that 19 cent cheeseburger total came to $7.83. They get you on those upgrades EVERY time.
Fleet Admiral Ventaxa Proxmire, U.S.S. Shaka Walls Fell
Blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/?page_id=1990
Foundry series: Bob From Accounting & For the Sake of the Empire
Dilithium and the Dilithium Exchange were introduced around F2P. I started playing about a month or so before that. I still remember the days before Rep was introduced, and we needed salvage tech for our Omega Force gear. When they introduced Dilithium and Reps, the only source was the Borg STFs.
As for saying how low it was in 2014... wasn't that around the time Fleet Starbases were a thing? It makes sense the Exchange rates would be that low because ALL the big fleets, and realistically ALL fleets, needed Dilithium to push construction of their Starbases. Thus a DEMAND for Dilithium was in play, affecting the exchange rates. Dilithium was more valuable because people needed it for Starbase projects.
Today all the big fleets have maxed out all their holdings. There is no demand really.
Very much this. The amount of Dil one can acquire now is a lot higher than back when LOR, Delta Rising were new.
250k dil: instantly complete and reset a 20-hour reputation project (must already have sponsorship unlocked for that reputation)
300k dil: all currently available dil store uniforms (the current prices were always ridiculous for a uniform anyway)
500k dil: select another reward from a single mission you've already completed
500k dil: change a single Bound to Character item to Bound to Account (reputation and unique-equip items excluded)
600k dil: account unlock a currently owned Lobi or Dil store uniform
1 million dil: account unlock a currently owned Vanity Shield
1 million dil: account unlock a currently owned Phoenix Prize Pack ship
1.5 million dil: account unlock a currently owned Lobi Store ship
1.75 Million dil: account unlock a currently owned Lockbox ship
2 Million dil: account unlock a currently owned Promobox ship
I have more ideas, but most of them require solutions to current limitations of the game, such as weapon audio/visual customization, beam/warp out/communicator effects customization, etc.
I've got bad news for you. See below.
It seems that you actively wish to not care that there's a difference between facts and opinions. Frankly, you're not even worth discussing this with any further.
I agree I just bring this up every other year or so or when I notice it. So Perfect World/Cryptic. Might look and hopefully do something About it. This was said just not for me, I want other new Players to go out and get those new fancy Ships and other items at a reasonable rate.
Speaking of which, it was upgrades that drove the price of zen down to the 130s in 2014 in the first place.
People tend to find ways around seemingly impossible barriers. There are a few things now that you can buy for Zen and trade, but most of them wouldn't work for this. There is the seasonal thing where you buy a token for a ship to gift to someone else that would work, but the limited window of availability means that it would have limited impact. Of course, that was only part of the statement that I made, anyway, the rest of it was that if nobody could crack the option to create a black market for regular Zen items there would just be a small trickle of Zen that immediately gets purchased, and leaves an ever-growing queue of outstanding offers not getting filled.
See, I'm one of those strange people who asks for things like sources for claims like this. Call me cynical, if you must, but I have a hard time taking someone's word for it.