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Seven's Dual Tetryon Rifles are actually Phaser Rifles in the show

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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    Well, if it's just about the damage type, even Starfleet used tetryon weapons. It's mentioned in Insurrection. ( https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Tetryon_pulse_launcher ).

    Appearantly, tetryons can somehow be emitted by both phaser and disruptor weapons. So maybe the best damage type for Seven's in-game weapons would have been phased tetryon?​​
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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  • testsubject228testsubject228 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    A more likely explanation is that Cryptic saw the trailer and added Tetryon rifles based on bolt color and didn't find out that the rifles were in-fact Phasers until the episode was released.
    Also I don't think the blue bolts are stun bolts. The red is simply an indication of a full charge bolt.
    With the exception of JJ trek aka Kelvin timline, Phasers didn't change color for lethal/stun mode.
    Also.. theres no reason why they would make the stun setting burst fire.
    Post edited by testsubject228 on
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    artan42 wrote: »
    [
    Is that FC and INS as well because I only remember them in NEM.

    Yes.
    One clip from FC:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDiZefRj78g

    INS:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og1c8h2UyE8
    Little harder to see but the firing sound is the same, and you don't see a beam.
    There's also a scene where they blast through a wall, and both the type 2 and compression rifle are used.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,498 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Hand phasers have always had both beam and (at least sort of) bolt modes, even as far back as TOS. A hand phaser on beam makes a trilling sound when it is fired, but on bolt mode it yelps for instance.

    It is a definite for ships though, Enterprise is shown firing beams most often but it does occasionally fire in bolt mode (mostly in "Balance of Terror" which is also "proximity" mode so it could be the equivalent of the yelping wide angle setting on hand phasers) though they do show other times when it is not always clear whether they are firing photon torpedoes or phasers.

    There was not an official meaning for beam/bolt colors in TOS (the varied colors actually was because they needed more opticals than any one SFX house could provide and they had different interpretations of the work orders), but by chance if you go and classify all the colors by what the characters were doing at the moment it works out rather well to Red = Heat, Green = Stun, and Blue = Disrupt/Disintegrate. The blue is sometimes used for stunning too, but that could be attributed to the disrupt mechanic having its own way to stun, and there is the occasional shot that does not fit that color scheme.

    That same color interpretation also works for ship phasers, they mainly use blue against other ships and some ground targets, but others (more often in orbital strikes) are red (though they do show red beams in space occasionally). The one time they show a stun bombardment positively identified as such in dialog it is green.

    Of course there is the caveat that those are the original colors so the Remastered episodes may show something else.

    STO making Seven's rifles tetryon is a good thing even if they are phasers in episode since there are so many fancy and new phaser weapons in the game and tetryon has almost nothing in the way of variety on the ground.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,008 Community Moderator
    I think the remastered episodes unified the colors as best they could with the VFX as TOS kinda was all over the place.
    Like in STO, TOSr typically has phasers firing blue most of the time.

    Kelvin Timeline and Discovery does have different colors for different settings, with blue being stun and red being lethal settings. Except for in Beyond. I think it was blue on both.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think the remastered episodes unified the colors as best they could with the VFX as TOS kinda was all over the place.
    Like in STO, TOSr typically has phasers firing blue most of the time.

    Kelvin Timeline and Discovery does have different colors for different settings, with blue being stun and red being lethal settings. Except for in Beyond. I think it was blue on both.

    Maybe the phasers in BEY were only used in stun mode.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    [
    Is that FC and INS as well because I only remember them in NEM.

    Yes.
    One clip from FC:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDiZefRj78g

    INS:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og1c8h2UyE8
    Little harder to see but the firing sound is the same, and you don't see a beam.
    There's also a scene where they blast through a wall, and both the type 2 and compression rifle are used.

    Two more examples:

    FC:
    in the deck 16 fight scene you see extensive use of bolts, starting around 3:58 in this clip
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXNQDevaPhM


    INS:
    at 2:10 in this video Dr Crusher uses a rifle firing bolts
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44952gWebas
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,386 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    artan42 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think the remastered episodes unified the colors as best they could with the VFX as TOS kinda was all over the place.
    Like in STO, TOSr typically has phasers firing blue most of the time.

    Kelvin Timeline and Discovery does have different colors for different settings, with blue being stun and red being lethal settings. Except for in Beyond. I think it was blue on both.

    Maybe the phasers in BEY were only used in stun mode.
    Which I found weird, considering there is a shot, during the boarding of the Enterprise, where Spock and McCoy enters the elevator, ready for combat, and we clearly see Spock switch his phaser from stun to kill mode as it goes from blue "barrel" to red, like in the previous Kelvin Timeline movies.

    That said, people have noticed that unlike in the previous movies where you see burnt clothing and occasionally bleeding wounds, the Beyond phasers don't cause visible physical damage. Perhaps those and the rifles were experimental phaser weaponry made to avoid physical painful damage on non-stun settings for whatever reasons at some point.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Would Seven necessarily be using the exact same model of rifle 10 years later? Dual wielding's a choice, and not one that requires special weapons forged by magical artisans which channel her energy into twin bolts of destruction (without which a mortal would be hopeless at holding two big guns at the same time.)

    Ie. Cryptic can pretty easily get away with this. The weapon model isn't necessary to have the narrative effect of a PIC themed Seven (for this mission she just happens to be using different rifles with a different energy type.) Her character model and dual wielding are the key visuals. Lincoln's hatchet, for contrast, is a situation where you need original modeling to pull off the narrative effect (a Bat'leth or Lipra would have a big impact on presentation.)
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  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    Would Seven necessarily be using the exact same model of rifle 10 years later? Dual wielding's a choice, and not one that requires special weapons forged by magical artisans which channel her energy into twin bolts of destruction (without which a mortal would be hopeless at holding two big guns at the same time.)

    Ie. Cryptic can pretty easily get away with this. The weapon model isn't necessary to have the narrative effect of a PIC themed Seven (for this mission she just happens to be using different rifles with a different energy type.) Her character model and dual wielding are the key visuals. Lincoln's hatchet, for contrast, is a situation where you need original modeling to pull off the narrative effect (a Bat'leth or Lipra would have a big impact on presentation.)

    Seeing your avatar, i think of a dual wielding tardigrade launchers.. :smiley:
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think the remastered episodes unified the colors as best they could with the VFX as TOS kinda was all over the place.
    Like in STO, TOSr typically has phasers firing blue most of the time.

    Kelvin Timeline and Discovery does have different colors for different settings, with blue being stun and red being lethal settings. Except for in Beyond. I think it was blue on both.

    Maybe the phasers in BEY were only used in stun mode.
    Which I found weird, considering there is a shot, during the boarding of the Enterprise, where Spock and McCoy enters the elevator, ready for combat, and we clearly see Spock switch his phaser from stun to kill mode as it goes from blue "barrel" to red, like in the previous Kelvin Timeline movies.

    That said, people have noticed that unlike in the previous movies where you see burnt clothing and occasionally bleeding wounds, the Beyond phasers don't cause visible physical damage. Perhaps those and the rifles were experimental phaser weaponry made to avoid physical painful damage on non-stun settings for whatever reasons at some point.

    Spock is using a phaser from the Franklin in the film so I don't know if that makes a difference.
    Star-Trek-Beyond-5.jpg?w=1600&cdnnode=1
    stbassaultphaser3.jpg

    So it'd be a plasma or phase pistol rather than a phaser.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think the remastered episodes unified the colors as best they could with the VFX as TOS kinda was all over the place.
    Like in STO, TOSr typically has phasers firing blue most of the time.

    Kelvin Timeline and Discovery does have different colors for different settings, with blue being stun and red being lethal settings. Except for in Beyond. I think it was blue on both.

    Maybe the phasers in BEY were only used in stun mode.
    Which I found weird, considering there is a shot, during the boarding of the Enterprise, where Spock and McCoy enters the elevator, ready for combat, and we clearly see Spock switch his phaser from stun to kill mode as it goes from blue "barrel" to red, like in the previous Kelvin Timeline movies.

    That said, people have noticed that unlike in the previous movies where you see burnt clothing and occasionally bleeding wounds, the Beyond phasers don't cause visible physical damage. Perhaps those and the rifles were experimental phaser weaponry made to avoid physical painful damage on non-stun settings for whatever reasons at some point.

    Spock is using a phaser from the Franklin in the film so I don't know if that makes a difference.
    Star-Trek-Beyond-5.jpg?w=1600&cdnnode=1
    stbassaultphaser3.jpg

    So it'd be a plasma or phase pistol rather than a phaser.

    Earlier in the movie Spock uses the '09 phaser, during the scene where the Enterprise gets boarded and destroyed. Clearest shot of it is when he and McCoy step into a turbolift and Spock deliberately raises it up towards the camera and flips the barrel from stun to kill.

    Happens at 4:40 in this clip:

    https://youtu.be/CiFM30eUUnU
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Earlier in the movie Spock uses the '09 phaser, during the scene where the Enterprise gets boarded and destroyed. Clearest shot of it is when he and McCoy step into a turbolift and Spock deliberately raises it up towards the camera and flips the barrel from stun to kill.

    Happens at 4:40 in this clip:

    Ah, I see. Come to think of it, I seem to recall Kirk checking the setting on a 09 phaser when he climbs out of his Kelvin pod.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    > @duncanidaho11 said:
    > Would Seven necessarily be using the exact same model of rifle 10 years later?


    She wouldn't, just like she wouldn't be wearing the exact same outfit. But since that scene it that one episode is clearly the inspiration for how her character looks in the new missions, there is no logical reason not to make her weapons the same too.

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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,111 Arc User
    After watching the latest Picard Episode where she gets the Rifles it seems they are actually Phaser and not Tetryon. Further i didn't notice a difference in performance between dual rifles and dual pistols at all. I assume they wont get changed to Phaser and they probaly not get any better performance either but can't hurt to bring it up.

    Those were a couple of Rifles she used 13 years ago in 2399 (STO take place in 2412 now ;)). Do you really believe she's still using them 13 years later? ;)
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
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  • novapolaris#2925 novapolaris Member Posts: 777 Arc User
    Additionally, Seven's dual tetryon rifles in-game are not the same model as the phaser rifles in ST: Picard at all. So it's reasonable for them to be tetryon, although it'd be really cool to get Picard era phasers (since that's closer to what would be around in the 25th century than TNG or movie-era).

    Also, if people are referring to when she used a pistol in a flashback, that was a decade prior, so there was probably also technology drift and phasers might still have been red-orange, compared to the show's present.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    After watching the latest Picard Episode where she gets the Rifles it seems they are actually Phaser and not Tetryon. Further i didn't notice a difference in performance between dual rifles and dual pistols at all. I assume they wont get changed to Phaser and they probaly not get any better performance either but can't hurt to bring it up.

    Those were a couple of Rifles she used 13 years ago in 2399 (STO take place in 2412 now ;)). Do you really believe she's still using them 13 years later? ;)

    Again, she wouldn't be wearing the same clothes either. They are clearly using her appearance in Picard as the basis for her updated look in game, so her using the same weapons as in the show makes just as much "sense" as her wearing the same outfit.

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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    (STO take place in 2412 now ;)

    no it doesn't; we're in 2411 as of MoM P1​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    on the note of in game character guns, it just occured to me STO has missed a chance for an amusing referance, they really need to give us a special 23rd century phaser pistol called "Checkov's Modified Phaser pistol"
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,498 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think the remastered episodes unified the colors as best they could with the VFX as TOS kinda was all over the place.
    Like in STO, TOSr typically has phasers firing blue most of the time.

    Kelvin Timeline and Discovery does have different colors for different settings, with blue being stun and red being lethal settings. Except for in Beyond. I think it was blue on both.

    Maybe the phasers in BEY were only used in stun mode.
    Which I found weird, considering there is a shot, during the boarding of the Enterprise, where Spock and McCoy enters the elevator, ready for combat, and we clearly see Spock switch his phaser from stun to kill mode as it goes from blue "barrel" to red, like in the previous Kelvin Timeline movies.

    That said, people have noticed that unlike in the previous movies where you see burnt clothing and occasionally bleeding wounds, the Beyond phasers don't cause visible physical damage. Perhaps those and the rifles were experimental phaser weaponry made to avoid physical painful damage on non-stun settings for whatever reasons at some point.

    Spock is using a phaser from the Franklin in the film so I don't know if that makes a difference.
    Star-Trek-Beyond-5.jpg?w=1600&cdnnode=1
    stbassaultphaser3.jpg

    So it'd be a plasma or phase pistol rather than a phaser.

    Earlier in the movie Spock uses the '09 phaser, during the scene where the Enterprise gets boarded and destroyed. Clearest shot of it is when he and McCoy step into a turbolift and Spock deliberately raises it up towards the camera and flips the barrel from stun to kill.

    Happens at 4:40 in this clip:

    https://youtu.be/CiFM30eUUnU

    Just as a guess I would say that the pistol Spock is holding from the Franklin is probably a plasma pistol since it has the same vertical slit (in this case with visible coils or big screws on either side) on the rather flat front that the ENT plasma pistols did rather than the large slightly protruding central cylinder their phase pistols had.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    With the mood Seven was in at the end of that episode, I highly doubt she was using Stun :D
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,360 Arc User
    Why shouldn't Seven dress in the same style years later? She gets them from a replicator, in all likelihood, so all she has to do is set the style and make a new set every morning. (That's one of the reasons why Starfleet uniforms change so often, in my headcanon - when everyone gets their clothes from the same replicator pattern, all you need is one admiral with a fashion bug sending out occasional fleetwide software updates and boom, the uniforms look different this morning.)
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    The simple fact is, not everything in a TV show and especially in a video game has a logical "in universe" explanation. And sometimes the harder you try to force some type of "in universe" explanation on certain things, the more ridiculous it sounds.

    The fact is, Seven's appearance in the new missions is directly based on her short appearance in the last episode of Picard. No, there is no logical "in universe" reason she would be wearing the exact same outfit years later, but the "real life" reasons are obvious: they want to give people the Seven they just saw on the show. And that's fine. And for that very same reason (wanting to give people the Seven they just saw on the show) she should be using the same weapons.

    No, it doesn't make "in universe" sense, and neither does her outfit. And that's ok, because it's a game we're playing for fun. This is not a "simulator" that is supposed to be extremely realistic.

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Hey, I've got some ties that are from High School, 50 years ago (I haven't worn them since). Some shirts that I still wear may be five to seven years old. :)

    Seven never struck me as a clothes horse ;)

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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,498 Arc User
    The simple fact is, not everything in a TV show and especially in a video game has a logical "in universe" explanation. And sometimes the harder you try to force some type of "in universe" explanation on certain things, the more ridiculous it sounds.

    The fact is, Seven's appearance in the new missions is directly based on her short appearance in the last episode of Picard. No, there is no logical "in universe" reason she would be wearing the exact same outfit years later, but the "real life" reasons are obvious: they want to give people the Seven they just saw on the show. And that's fine. And for that very same reason (wanting to give people the Seven they just saw on the show) she should be using the same weapons.

    No, it doesn't make "in universe" sense, and neither does her outfit. And that's ok, because it's a game we're playing for fun. This is not a "simulator" that is supposed to be extremely realistic.

    If she was in the Rangers when she was first seen wearing them, and is still wearing them in the show's present, it is possible that the clothes are a Ranger field uniform of sorts.
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