What do you want to see from Star Trek: Section 31?

lordgyor · January 2020

I know many around here, even Discovery/Picard fans are leery of ST: Section 31, but what do you want to see in it. Like what characters, species, intelligence services, eras, plots, tech, ect...

I want an sexy female Orion in the cast and a Deltan and a Caitian in the cast. And nudity, I want a sexier Star Trek, let Picard, Lower Decks, Pikd, and Discovery be fore all ages.

phoenixc · January 2020

First and foremost I would like to see writing and design that is not so ridiculously out of step with TOS, and actually has sensible and deep plots instead of strings of SFX gags strung together with iffy action hero nonsense (but that is not likely to happen considering it is a DSC spinoff).

Ignoring the compatibility problems and just considering the show strictly on its own, I would like to see a diverse cast that includes some "enemy" aliens as protagonists since it is supposed to be a spy story and turning people is a staple of that genre. Orions and Klingons would be perfect candidates for that and they should have one or two as regular cast or at least semi regulars.

Also, I would like to see them either dodging Starfleet Intelligence or (if they insist on using S31 as an official agency instead of a rogue element in the intelligence community) a rivalry with Starfleet Intelligence similar to the friction that used to exist between the CIA and ONI.

Setting it in the Cage/TOS era would be good, there was plenty for them to do with the cold war raging full tilt and building up into a shooting war (which the Organians stopped pretty much immediately after it started). The whole idea of blocking out time periods in reserve for a single series is absolutely ludicrous, not to mention inexcusably lazy. Sure, it means extra effort to make sure multiple storylines do not contradict each other, but TV is moving towards the same kind of shared universe format the major comics have used for decades without problems (or at least not unsurmountable problems anyway), screenwriters can learn how to do it too easily enough as the Arrowverse and the MCU proves.

rattler2 · January 2020

I would... actually want to be able to SEE it. lol

lordgyor · January 2020

> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> First and foremost I would like to see writing and design that is not so ridiculously out of step with TOS, and actually has sensible and deep plots instead of strings of SFX gags strung together with iffy action hero nonsense (but that is not likely to happen considering it is a DSC spinoff).
>
> Ignoring the compatibility problems and just considering the show strictly on its own, I would like to see a diverse cast that includes some "enemy" aliens as protagonists since it is supposed to be a spy story and turning people is a staple of that genre. Orions and Klingons would be perfect candidates for that and they should have one or two as regular cast or at least semi regulars.
>
> Also, I would like to see them either dodging Starfleet Intelligence or (if they insist on using S31 as an official agency instead of a rogue element in the intelligence community) a rivalry with Starfleet Intelligence similar to the friction that used to exist between the CIA and ONI.
>
> Setting it in the Cage/TOS era would be good, there was plenty for them to do with the cold war raging full tilt and building up into a shooting war (which the Organians stopped pretty much immediately after it started). The whole idea of blocking out time periods in reserve for a single series is absolutely ludicrous, not to mention inexcusably lazy. Sure, it means extra effort to make sure multiple storylines do not contradict each other, but TV is moving towards the same kind of shared universe format the major comics have used for decades without problems (or at least not unsurmountable problems anyway), screenwriters can learn how to do it too easily enough as the Arrowverse and the MCU proves.

Given how awful the Klingons look in TRIBBLE, I'd prefer they avoid Klingons except for Ash Tyler, but I agree with you on Orions. Didn't Georgio have some Orions working for her at that bar/brothel she owned before Section 31 recruited her?

A turned Cardassian would be interesting, although it might be too early in the timeline for Cardassians potentially, I hope not however as it would be disappointing for S31 not to go toe to toe with the Obidian Order.

Also does anyone else find it funny that the two lead characters in ST: S31 are both murdering cannibals that ruled/served Militaristic Empires, and were enemies/fought the Federation and now serve to protect it, this Utopia, via S31. I mean having one lead protagonist character as a cannibal is strange, having two cannibals leading the cast, one of which ate the Prime Universe version of the other is super weird, but awesome.

Also you wanted two "alien enemy" characters, well we have a former Klingon Fundlementalist Spy in human form, and you have a former Terran Empress who almost destroyed the Federation and the whole multiverse, both of them turned enemies of the Federation, so you already got one wish.

legendarylycan · January 2020

neither of the leads are cannibals

georgiou hasn't eaten any humans, and ash tyler (back when he was voq) hasn't eaten any klingons

lordgyor · January 2020

> @shadowfang240 said:
> neither of the leads are cannibals
>
> georgiou hasn't eaten any humans, and ash tyler (back when he was voq) hasn't eaten any klingons

All humaniods species in Star Trek are related, its still Cannibalism, especially on a moral level.

lordgyor · January 2020

ST: S31 has to have it's own hero ship .

legendarylycan · January 2020

no, it literally isn't

the definition of cannibalism is consumption of one's OWN species, not any species that is sapient

khan5000 · January 2020

Something like Mission Impossible or Jack Ryan set in the Star Trek universe

starkaos · January 2020

If it is called Section 31, then it should not be limited to just the Discovery era with Georgiou. I want to see Section 31 when it was first created, when Georgiou was around, Ash Tyler having to deal with the aftermath of Control, during DS9, and their perspective if they show up in Picard. If not, then I want to see the end of Section 31.

mustrumridcully0 · January 2020

I want to see the perils of an organization like Section 31 being shown off. Ideally, the show ends with Section 31 being dismantled or our heroes leave it disillusioned.

Trying to circumvent the Federation's higher moral standards should at least once horribly backfire and make them realize that maybe their attempt to save the Federation has just as much chance to destroy it. Control was just one way things can go wrong. Pairing good intentions with evil methods should not work out, and risk damaging the Federation's foundations and could easily lead to its downfall.

But of course, some Starfleet officers are not willing to give up the idea and that is how we get Sloane in DS9, continuing their work in secret.

I'd like to see Mirror Georgiou find her own morality, the Federation getting under her skin, despite her Mirror Universe upbringing. I want her to learn humility.

lazarus51166 · January 2020

lordgyor wrote: »

> @shadowfang240 said:
> neither of the leads are cannibals
>
> georgiou hasn't eaten any humans, and ash tyler (back when he was voq) hasn't eaten any klingons

All humaniods species in Star Trek are related, its still Cannibalism, especially on a moral level.

I'm willing to bet voq ate plenty of dead klingons when they were starving. It doesn't make sense that dead humans would be the only thing they would eat when they care so little for their own dead

starkaos · January 2020

lordgyor wrote: »

All humaniods species in Star Trek are related, its still Cannibalism, especially on a moral level.

But that is only known after Picard made his monumental discovery not the 23rd Century. Also, it is not cannibalism since we do not call it cannibalism when an eagle eats a small bird. Aliens have different morals and beliefs than 21st Century civilized humans so we might just be a snack that they can converse with.

rattler2 · January 2020

starkaos wrote: »

when Georgiou was around, Ash Tyler having to deal with the aftermath of Control...

I have a feeling we might see the aftermath of Control since Gerogiou has to come BACK from the future to be the lead.

legendarylycan · January 2020

whether eating sapient species is right or not isn't the point i was making - it was that eating something OUTSIDE your species is no more cannibalism than any species capable of applying wisdom, logic and reason to any action they take is sentient - which it isn't, it's sapient, and everyone needs to STOP FLUFFING GETTING THE TWO MIXED UP!

AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

starkaos · January 2020

coldnapalm wrote: »

shadowfang240 wrote: »

no, it literally isn't

the definition of cannibalism is consumption of one's OWN species, not any species that is sapient

Yes...but there must be SOME taboo around eating sapient species. I mean we frown on eating monkeys and their sapience is questionable. Once we go to full blown sapience, pretty sure a taboo similar to cannibalism will be made around eating that. One could even argue that the taboo against cannibalism is actually a taboo against eating sapience as we know of many animal species that practice cannibalism and we really don't give much thought to that. It's HUMAN cannibalism that is the problem. Which means the taboo is either species centric...or it's about the eating of sapience. Until we find other sapience however...we won't know.

Monkeys have limited sapience, but even then they have their own cannibals. Personally, I think that cannibalism has nothing to do with sapience, but beliefs. The Judeo-Christian beliefs of western society give importance to our dead bodies. There are laws against desecrating dead bodies. Lots of other civilizations give importance to dead bodies. However, civilizations that survive in harsher conditions have harsher beliefs.

If we use colony ships that don't use suspended animation, then it might be necessary to recycle dead bodies for survival. If the supply ships for various planetary colonies and space stations are late or have an accident, then some Soylent Green might be necessary for survival.

legendarylycan · January 2020

it isn't just that 'earthly shells having some special significance' nonsense - some humans just get squicky about eating themselves, no matter what beliefs they hold, others have no issues with it, also no matter their belief system

legendarylycan · January 2020

pretty sure someone on the dev team said a few times it's definitely going to be in the disco era - specifically in between S1 and 2, IIRC

but that, like all things, is subject to last-minute changes

starkaos · January 2020

reyan01 wrote: »

Genuine question - do we know with any real certainty that it is going to be set in the DSC era?
I mean, I'd assume it probably will be; but Georgiou is in the future. Presumably she won't stay there, but do we know for sure that she is going to convieniently time-travel back to the same time period she left?

It depends on Season 3 of Discovery and no one, but the creators of Section 31 knows when it is set. Section 31 could easily be set between the time that Georgiou was recruited at the end of Season 1 until Control destroyed it. Another possibility is that it is set in the distant future and Georgiou never comes back. In fact, she would have more fun if she stayed in the distant future with a broken Federation.

lordgyor · January 2020

> @starkaos said:
> (Quote)
>
> It depends on Season 3 of Discovery and no one, but the creators of Section 31 knows when it is set. Section 31 could easily be set between the time that Georgiou was recruited at the end of Season 1 until Control destroyed it. Another possibility is that it is set in the distant future and Georgiou never comes back. In fact, she would have more fun if she stayed in the distant future with a broken Federation.

No it couldn't be set between the end of season one and the end of season 2 as season 2 pick right up where season 1 ended, and the time span of season two wasn't even a year. You can't fit multiple season in those short periods of time that Georgio wasn't embroiled in the Discovery Season 2 plotline.

So we know that Section 31 is either set in the future where Discovery is, or she time travels back into the past, its either or, and given that I think Ash Tyler will be in this show its much more likely Georgio's in the past.

lordgyor · January 2020

Does anyone else want to somehow see Georgio and Garrak met up and have a scene together?

starkaos · January 2020

lordgyor wrote: »

> starkaos said:
> (Quote)
>
> It depends on Season 3 of Discovery and no one, but the creators of Section 31 knows when it is set. Section 31 could easily be set between the time that Georgiou was recruited at the end of Season 1 until Control destroyed it. Another possibility is that it is set in the distant future and Georgiou never comes back. In fact, she would have more fun if she stayed in the distant future with a broken Federation.

No it couldn't be set between the end of season one and the end of season 2 as season 2 pick right up where season 1 ended, and the time span of season two wasn't even a year. You can't fit multiple season in those short periods of time that Georgio wasn't embroiled in the Discovery Season 2 plotline.

So we know that Section 31 is either set in the future where Discovery is, or she time travels back into the past, its either or, and given that I think Ash Tyler will be in this show its much more likely Georgio's in the past.

That is assuming that it will last for Seasons. It could be a miniseries for all we know. As far as you can't fit multiple seasons in that a short period of time in Star Trek, Voyager fit about a year in two episodes with the Year of Hell. So having a couple of seasons for a Star Trek series take only a couple of minutes is not out of the realm of possibility.

All we know about the Section 31 series is "It occupies an area of the Trek universe that's never really been explored geographically. It has a new mythology to it, which is very interesting. And it puts Michelle's character to the test in a lot of ways that Discovery can't. In some ways it will be her Unforgiven, I would say." We have no idea when it will be or how long it will be. Personally, I am hoping for it to be either during during the first half of Season 2 of Discovery or in the distant future since time travel is getting overused in Star Trek or have it set as an anthology.

lordgyor · January 2020

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/01/27/rumor-star-treks-section-31-series-will-begin-filming-in-may/

jonsills · January 2020

starkaos wrote: »

As far as you can't fit multiple seasons in that a short period of time in Star Trek, Voyager fit about a year in two episodes with the Year of Hell.

However, the span of time within those two episodes was specified to be about a year. The span of time between the end of DSC Season 1 and Season 2 was specified to be a matter of minutes. You can't fit anything in there, much less an entire series about S31.

mneme0 · January 2020

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I want to see the perils of an organization like Section 31 being shown off. Ideally, the show ends with Section 31 being dismantled or our heroes leave it disillusioned.

Trying to circumvent the Federation's higher moral standards should at least once horribly backfire and make them realize that maybe their attempt to save the Federation has just as much chance to destroy it. Control was just one way things can go wrong. Pairing good intentions with evil methods should not work out, and risk damaging the Federation's foundations and could easily lead to its downfall.

But of course, some Starfleet officers are not willing to give up the idea and that is how we get Sloane in DS9, continuing their work in secret.

I'd like to see Mirror Georgiou find her own morality, the Federation getting under her skin, despite her Mirror Universe upbringing. I want her to learn humility.

This. I want to see the fruits of S31's evil actions be a litany of backfiring horror that leaves no question that such methods must be vehemently opposed.

starkaos · January 2020

jonsills wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

As far as you can't fit multiple seasons in that a short period of time in Star Trek, Voyager fit about a year in two episodes with the Year of Hell.

However, the span of time within those two episodes was specified to be about a year. The span of time between the end of DSC Season 1 and Season 2 was specified to be a matter of minutes. You can't fit anything in there, much less an entire series about S31.

The time would be between when Georgiou was first recruited into Section 31 until Section 31 was destroyed by Control which is a few months and long enough to have a miniseries. We know Georgiou was in Section 31 during Season 2, but we have no idea about her training or the various missions she went on during Season 2. Any other setting would require some convoluted story about Georgiou creating a new Section 31 or joining Section 31 again.

Year of Hell was able to fit about a year into a matter of minutes since Voyager's experience with the Year of Hell was erased from existence. Various time travel stories like to use the idea of having the protagonist(s) returning a few minutes after they have left on their temporal journey. So it is possible for a Star Trek series or a season involving time travel to have all of their experiences erased from existence which is just as bad as making the entire season just a dream or happen in the past or future with only a couple of minutes in the present have passed.

lordgyor · January 2020

> @starkaos said:
> (Quote)
>
> The time would be between when Georgiou was first recruited into Section 31 until Section 31 was destroyed by Control which is a few months and long enough to have a miniseries. We know Georgiou was in Section 31 during Season 2, but we have no idea about her training or the various missions she went on during Season 2. Any other setting would require some convoluted story about Georgiou creating a new Section 31 or joining Section 31 again.
>
> Year of Hell was able to fit about a year into a matter of minutes since Voyager's experience with the Year of Hell was erased from existence. Various time travel stories like to use the idea of having the protagonist(s) returning a few minutes after they have left on their temporal journey. So it is possible for a Star Trek series or a season involving time travel to have all of their experiences erased from existence which is just as bad as making the entire season just a dream or happen in the past or future with only a couple of minutes in the present have passed.

During that period Georgie had her hands full with Control.

Look there is no way the series , and it's a series not a mini-series or they would have said so by now can fit in that time frame.

There is a tiny chance its set in the future, but much more likely Georgio travels back in time for some reason.

starkaos · February 2020

lordgyor wrote: »

During that period Georgie had her hands full with Control.

Look there is no way the series , and it's a series not a mini-series or they would have said so by now can fit in that time frame.

There is a tiny chance its set in the future, but much more likely Georgio travels back in time for some reason.

Control only became an issue in Project Daedalus which is in episode 9 of Season 2. Before that, Georgiou had Section 31 missions that were completely unrelated to destroying Control. So there is plenty of time for Georgiou to have her own miniseries especially if she is not travelling all over the galaxy like Discovery.

As far as it being a series or miniseries, we have no idea how long it will be or where it will be. All we know is that Georgiou was part of Section 31 before it was destroyed by Control and we have only a limited amount of information about her time there. There is only the possibility that it will be set during Season 2 of Discovery just like there is only the possibility of it being set between Discovery and TOS or in the 24th Century. However, it is likely that when it happens is unimportant since Section 31 "occupies an area of the Trek universe that's never really been explored geographically." So if it takes place in another reality or galaxy, then it doesn't matter when it happened. All anyone of us can say is that we will know more after Season 3 of Discovery.

What do you want to see from Star Trek: Section 31?

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