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OMEGA GRIND NOW A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!!!

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  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    It isnt a big difference to me too as I never sold but I guess it may be a difference not just to sellers but to the rare people with more than one account
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,322 Arc User
    dark4blood wrote: »
    ^This will NOT help botting, as now everyone will have to Omega farm because you can only get them once a year. This literally is just punishing actual players into hoarding for an entire year worth of Omegas or be screwed for upgrades.
    Why would anyone need to farm Omegas when the Phoenix box now runs 365 days a year, and Phoenix upgrades are better?

    Really, at this point, Omega upgrades aren't worth it.

    i beg to differ... Omega is better if your after quality upgrades... Phoenix is bought using dil upfront... so to say it costs zero dil to upgrade is misleading. Omega really does not cost any dil and has 4 times quality upgrade, for those chasing Epic it is the way to go.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 873 Arc User
    I can see that Cryptic is seriously invested in not having players come back. I was looking forward to the Anniversary and was dipping my toe in, but with the nonsensical event changes meant solely to rip off players and now this I can honestly say I find it very difficult to find a single reason why I should. I've honestly never met a game so invested in keeping any returning player away as this game, it's kind of impressive really.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 3,855 Arc User
    I mean, I guess I see the complaint from people wishing to grind and sell. But in all the years I've used every particle ground myself. I was planning to skip this years omega grind, but the prospect of increased rarity omegas intrigues me - so back at it! I enjoy this minigame anyway.
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,264 Arc User
    The mini games, including the omega one, tend to lag for me to such a degree that they're close to unplayable.
    So it makes no difference to me either way. If i ever need upgrades I'll use the phoenix.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,092 Arc User
    edited January 21
    tigeraries wrote: »
    dark4blood wrote: »
    ^This will NOT help botting, as now everyone will have to Omega farm because you can only get them once a year. This literally is just punishing actual players into hoarding for an entire year worth of Omegas or be screwed for upgrades.
    Why would anyone need to farm Omegas when the Phoenix box now runs 365 days a year, and Phoenix upgrades are better?

    Really, at this point, Omega upgrades aren't worth it.

    i beg to differ... Omega is better if your after quality upgrades... Phoenix is bought using dil upfront... so to say it costs zero dil to upgrade is misleading. Omega really does not cost any dil and has 4 times quality upgrade, for those chasing Epic it is the way to go.
    Omega is worse for quality upgrades. In the time it takes to get Omega even with the x2 upgrade over Phoenix you could have had way more Phoenix units. Why waste massively more hours grinding Omega when you can get more total quality upgrades for less time via Phoenix?

    Another way to put it 2 Phoenix are better then 1 Omega and in the time it takes to get 1 Omega you can get a lot more then 2 Phoenix. I can upgrade to Epic a lot easier via Phoenix then I could via Omega.
  • jaturnleyjaturnley Member Posts: 1,189 Arc User
    Well, this certainly plays well with the EC sink Borticus asked about last year, but it does make it problematic for all of those that don't have the time to spare for more than the daily or that, for whatever reason, find themselves unable to play at all.

    And as someone already said, we don't know how much the increase will actually be, so we have no way of comparing anything.​​

    Literally everything is problematic for people who can't do a thing enough to make that thing work for them. Staying alive is problematic when you can't breathe enough, for example.

  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 11,417 Arc User
    I did that on one Character only last year and got one of each type of Particle per day. I picked up a few strays from other Characters that had run it the year before. It wasn't until a few months ago that I went through the multi-day process of creating a single Omega Upgrade. I think I used it on a Mk II Omni something or other. Not impressed.

    Using it on anything other than a low Mk item is a waste as 4x 1% will only save a few Phoenix before you get to a reasonable % to trigger the Quality increase. The low % increase per ~250k Tech Points at high levels is just ludicrous.

    Anyway, no matter how hard I try I never get above 600 something points in the Particle game, so 1 is the Reward. I tried doing 100 points and then stopping, same result, less work. The best result is when it stops as soon as it starts. Again, 1 is the Reward.
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  • vongravenvongraven Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    Oh well... I was really looking forward to the 10 years anniversary event because of all that fuzz it's gonna be really really REALLY special one. And now, what do I see?

    - An event ship which is... a meh, to put it simply. Not really bad, but not a wow either.
    - One new tfo which might be actually an interesting one, so ok, that's a good point.
    - A new admiralty campaign (probably?). Honestly, what for? Ok, it's a new admiralty card to grab, but other campaigns are just enough for me.
    - The same Omega event as usually... just nerfed.

    And here I'm getting back to the topic. Yeah, the Omega is nerfed in my eyes because I don't have the time to farm crazy amounts of those particles. I'd rather buy them from exchange. And now it looks like we are getting forced to farm them instead of having a choice to buy them for EC. I guess I'll have to switch to Phoenix instead. Maybe it's the actual goal of Cryptic - to make Phoenix kits more desirable which would eventually fix the dilex one day... OR on the other hand it might be a try to force more actual real people to grind their upgrade kits and play the game. That's so much like those constant events coming nonstop nowadays. Kinda "miss it and you'll regret it". Anyways I still don't like the change because it's one less possibility for me to choose from.

    One one more question - maybe I'm just missing something, but... where's the actual long promised "very special event"? Just wondering. I'm kinda a bit disappointed. I guess the "special" upgrade will be yet another 12k zen bundle in the c-store?
  • starcruiser#3423 starcruiser Member Posts: 571 Arc User
    These molecules have been almost worthless in the exchange in the past and now they will be nonexistent for others who don't have to grind and just want to buy or trade. If one thinks that way of "exploiting" the game for selling these molecules why not ban Dillithium or even EC grind? When it comes to it anything could be considered as an "exploit".
    Yet the "real" culprits EC/Gold sellers keep spamming left and right and nothing done about it.

    How can the omega game that only occurs one/twice at most per year be considered an exploit by others when the real gold spammers are free to roam lose daily?

    Please stop the nonsensical NERFDOOM.​​
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,053 Arc User
    saedeith wrote: »
    People do it in every mmo. Hell, I spent a better part of a year just logging in to play the exchange.
    Games are supposed to be games, not stock market trading simulators.


    Games are what ppl enjoy doing in them, not what you think they should be doing.

    Like in EvE Online, I did the market-spiel exclusively, before I quit (ultimately, because of nonconsensual PvP). And playing the market (which I don't do in STO, btw) can be endlessly more rewarding than the daily grind (and you can actually use said rewards again to comfortably play the game).
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 8,169 Arc User
    These molecules have been almost worthless in the exchange in the past and now they will be nonexistent for others who don't have to grind and just want to buy or trade. If one thinks that way of "exploiting" the game for selling these molecules why not ban Dillithium or even EC grind? When it comes to it anything could be considered as an "exploit".
    Yet the "real" culprits EC/Gold sellers keep spamming left and right and nothing done about it.

    How can the omega game that only occurs one/twice at most per year be considered an exploit by others when the real gold spammers are free to roam lose daily?

    Please stop the nonsensical NERFDOOM.​​

    It was mentioned earlier in the thread that at least one player used a bot to auto-farm 15,000 omega bits. How is that not an exploit?

    The gold sellers probably get a nice chunk of gold to sell every year doing the same botting.

    Gold sellers do get banned and filtered in chat, but with a free-to-play game there is no way to stop them from signing up new accounts to spam again. Every MMO I've played has this problem.

  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,053 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    I can see that Cryptic is seriously invested in not having players come back. I was looking forward to the Anniversary and was dipping my toe in, but with the nonsensical event changes meant solely to rip off players and now this I can honestly say I find it very difficult to find a single reason why I should. I've honestly never met a game so invested in keeping any returning player away as this game, it's kind of impressive really.


    Quite the opposite: the purpose of making Omega stuff untradeable is not to keep ppl away, but to make them do the grind. Cryptic logic is like that of a casino: 'At all cost, try and keep the customer inside the building for as long as possible.' Because the longer players are in-game, the more likely they are to spend money therein. That's Greed 101 for you.

    Do I agree with their thinking? No. Because I think trading is a healthy part of any economy, real or virtual. And, perhaps more importantly, allowing trade DOES attract the grinders that would otherwise not bother to log in (for as long as they do). But Cryptic logic and real-world logic don't always coalesce.
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    I would just like to point out that there's been no official explanation of the reason behind this change, and all reasoning offered up in this thread is pure speculation at best.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 8,169 Arc User
    edited January 22
    dark4blood wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    dark4blood wrote: »
    dark4blood wrote: »
    ^This will NOT help botting, as now everyone will have to Omega farm because you can only get them once a year. This literally is just punishing actual players into hoarding for an entire year worth of Omegas or be screwed for upgrades.
    Why would anyone need to farm Omegas when the Phoenix box now runs 365 days a year, and Phoenix upgrades are better?

    Really, at this point, Omega upgrades aren't worth it.

    ^Phoenix upgrades are not better for upgrading from mk II VR to mk anything Gold... Obviously you don't know how to use upgrades or you would know this.
    Phoenix are better now. You might have to use more of them up but you will have way more of them for less time spent. Upgrading to gold via Omega will takes many hours of extra grinding. For cutting down grinding and time saved Phoenix are better.

    Come on, if you think that making a mk go to gold is easier with Phoenix I literally can't take you seriously or you are just a noob.

    The point is if you can earn dil for 5 Phoenix upgrades in the time it takes to grind the components for one Omega, then the comparison is _5_ Phoenix not one.

    Omega: 25,600 tech points, 4X quality chance
    Phoenix: 51,200 tech points. 1X quality chance

    i.e. 5 Phoenix gives 10 times the tech upgrade points as one Omega.

    You also have to look at what else you get while earning the dil: marks (TFOs and patrols), reputation levels and mostly junk gear (rep dailies), credits (admiralty).

    Also look at which grind you'd rather do: is a TFO more fun (or less un-fun) than the omega mini-game?
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,649 Arc User
    Oofff. This one hurts. I bought 3,000 omega fragments on the exchange in each of the last two years during the event. There's absolutely zero chance that i could ever grind up 81,000 regular base particles worth to acquire the same number so I'll take a big hit with this.

    Hopefully, there's a legit reason for this change. Probably to stop gold sellers and/or bot farmers from clogging up the server.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,053 Arc User
    Oofff. This one hurts. I bought 3,000 omega fragments on the exchange in each of the last two years during the event. There's absolutely zero chance that i could ever grind up 81,000 regular base particles worth to acquire the same number so I'll take a big hit with this.

    Hopefully, there's a legit reason for this change. Probably to stop gold sellers and/or bot farmers from clogging up the server.


    Not entirely on-topic, I suppose, but I'd like to commend you on your mature attitude here: 'You win some, you lose some.' And any hoarder doing it differently will likely stand to go insane; like think about those poor ppl who grinded (I refuse to say 'ground', that sounds dumb to me) all them purple Phaser consoles, back when. Yours is a good attitude to have.
    I7edZ33.jpg
  • quepanquepan Member Posts: 530 Arc User
    saedeith wrote: »
    People do it in every mmo. Hell, I spent a better part of a year just logging in to play the exchange.
    Games are supposed to be games, not stock market trading simulators.
    dark4blood wrote: »
    WTF! Basically you are punishing anyone who doesn't actually play the new year events from now until further notice... What is the point of this
    I would suspect to make it more consistent with every other event in the game.

    I can't just go into the event reclaim store, get an old event item I won, and then put it on the exchange, they are all bound to character/account.

    I also have seen several people point out on Reddit that, for several years now, there has been a problem with bots and gold sellers coming into STO during the Anniv event, grinding out Omega particles, and then selling them for IRL money. This is likely a means to put a stop to that as well.

    if they really wanted to get rid of the farmers this isnt the way considering ever since the lock boxes came into the game with the suprise mechanics for KEYS the bots have been rampant , so this wont even put a dent into the bot problem . this just takes away a way for others to earn EC and others to overcome a glitchy Mini game by buying extra bits they need on the exchange to making those upgrades , ive sold my fair share of particles and bought a fair amount too since this events inception this to me is a dumb move might even get me to stay in game less
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,267 Arc User
    I can't help but wonder if the next Summer event will see account-bound Lohlunat Favors..
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,649 Arc User
    edited January 22
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Oofff. This one hurts. I bought 3,000 omega fragments on the exchange in each of the last two years during the event. There's absolutely zero chance that i could ever grind up 81,000 regular base particles worth to acquire the same number so I'll take a big hit with this.

    Hopefully, there's a legit reason for this change. Probably to stop gold sellers and/or bot farmers from clogging up the server.


    Not entirely on-topic, I suppose, but I'd like to commend you on your mature attitude here: 'You win some, you lose some.' And any hoarder doing it differently will likely stand to go insane; like think about those poor ppl who grinded (I refuse to say 'ground', that sounds dumb to me) all them purple Phaser consoles, back when. Yours is a good attitude to have.

    Thanks. It helps that I still have about 400 omegas left and I already upgraded "basically" everything that i want to upgrade. But this is the way that I hope players would react to a change. I've had my moments in the past where I raged and threw a fit but there's usually a reason that changes like this are made and it's best not to go overboard.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 457 Arc User
    jaturnley wrote: »
    Well, this certainly plays well with the EC sink Borticus asked about last year, but it does make it problematic for all of those that don't have the time to spare for more than the daily or that, for whatever reason, find themselves unable to play at all.

    And as someone already said, we don't know how much the increase will actually be, so we have no way of comparing anything.

    Literally everything is problematic for people who can't do a thing enough to make that thing work for them. Staying alive is problematic when you can't breathe enough, for example.
    You're right. Here's another example: trying to see something from someone else's perspective is problematic, when you don't have an ounce of empathy to begin with.

    Back on topic, I'm one of those that won't be hurt by this decision, because I've always grinded for what I needed or as close to it as time and boredom would allow, but I still hope hope they're gonna disclose why they made this choice. While some of this speculation might be on the right track - stopping gold sellers/bot, put in place a limited EC sink, and whatever else I might have missed - it would be nice to know for sure.​​
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    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,053 Arc User
    What will actually happen to the Omega fragments already on the exchange? Could those still be bought after the change?
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,649 Arc User
    You know, on second thought this might be an indirect way of addressing the dilithium/zen price. Presumably, there will be fewer omega upgrades floating around which means that people will need to lean more on phoenix packs. Phoenix packs cost dilithium, which will help drain some dilithium from the system causing the dil/zen price to drop.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    Well... this sux.

    I don't sell Omegas on the Exchange, but sometimes I do buy them.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 8,792 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    tigeraries wrote: »
    dark4blood wrote: »
    ^This will NOT help botting, as now everyone will have to Omega farm because you can only get them once a year. This literally is just punishing actual players into hoarding for an entire year worth of Omegas or be screwed for upgrades.
    Why would anyone need to farm Omegas when the Phoenix box now runs 365 days a year, and Phoenix upgrades are better?

    Really, at this point, Omega upgrades aren't worth it.

    i beg to differ... Omega is better if your after quality upgrades... Phoenix is bought using dil upfront... so to say it costs zero dil to upgrade is misleading. Omega really does not cost any dil and has 4 times quality upgrade, for those chasing Epic it is the way to go.
    Omega is worse for quality upgrades. In the time it takes to get Omega even with the x2 upgrade over Phoenix you could have had way more Phoenix units. Why waste massively more hours grinding Omega when you can get more total quality upgrades for less time via Phoenix?

    Another way to put it 2 Phoenix are better then 1 Omega and in the time it takes to get 1 Omega you can get a lot more then 2 Phoenix. I can upgrade to Epic a lot easier via Phoenix then I could via Omega.

    While I personally don't care much about this change (Omega's were never a source of EC for me) I can't fully agree with you. It does depend a lot on how good you are at the Omega Mini Game, but for me I can earn Omega's very quickly because I usually get either the max score or right near it which significantly increases your yield. The fastest Dilithium gaining methods are still things that can only be done once or twice daily (like admiralty) and there is still a cap on how much Dilithium you can refine daily putting a daily cap on the number of Phoenix Attainable. Omega has no daily limit and can be farmed quite quickly.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that Phoenix is superior, but many of us (myself included) do still use Omega's to upgrade Mark II items for the better quality chance. You are absolutely right though that no matter what method you use, Omega's are greatly devalued due to year around Phoenix Upgrades which are, in most cases, superior.

    Those that wanted to make EC off this event, I hate to tell you.. but it wasn't going to happen even without the change. With the Phoenix Kits now universally available, these upgrades would have sold for a fraction of what you could charge in previous years. Bound or Unbound, they just aren't worth much anymore.. look at what the Value of Superior Kits and you'll see what I mean. Farming Omegas for Profit would have been overall one of the least efficient ways you could have picked to make EC in this game.

    Cryptic basically saved you from wasting your time.

    I'm ok with the change because I don't care. I'm going to farm maybe 8-10 Omega Kits total for the few Mark II upgrades I do per year and call it good. That was all I was going to do anyway.. like most people, I use Phoenix for everything. They already made upgrading significantly less painful this year.. I honestly don't care about the Omega Event anymore.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,649 Arc User
    edited January 22
    I don't look at phoenix v.s. omega as an either/or thing. They both have their uses and that's why I've used both since their inception. Omega's were always better for upgrading VR Mk II items in an attempt to hit gold by Mk VII or VIII on upgrade weekends. Phoenix upgrades are better for tech points to try and get that gold mk VII or VIII item up to Mk XV. Basically, it's not a zero sum game between the two.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,053 Arc User
    edited January 22
    I don't look at phoenix v.s. omega as an either/or thing. They both have their uses and that's why I've used both since their inception. Omega's were always better for upgrading VR Mk II items in an attempt to hit gold by Mk VII or VIII on upgrade weekends. Phoenix upgrades are better for tech points to try and get that gold mk VII or VIII item up to Mk XV. Basically, it's not a zero sum game between the two.


    ^^ Finally someone who gets it. I've been using Omegas the exact same way you have (and frankly, I presumed everyone did it that way).

    To try and upgrade everything to Epic Mk XV with Omegas alone, that's insanity. Whatever the numbers ppl come up with, the grind time alone to get all the Omegas required, is a sheer path of lunacy. Also, Omegas give you their quality improvement chance at the end of each 'wrap', so to speak. So, to fill the gaps inbetween with Omegas as well is just plain dumb.
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