I have to say the bot farming paranoia is nonsensical. Lets assume its true though. What is happening?
Bots farming omega to sell to people? Well those people that buy it do not have to farm it themselves. With BtA omega bits, they now have to farm it themselves. Net change? Zero.
Bots farming omega for themselves? No change.
People zoning in and out of omega zones, and moving around to get to them, rather than letting bots do the job for them continuously for hours on end? Net negative on server load.
The only scenario where this benefits the server load is if people forgo Omega entirely, or otherwise lessen their omega goals to the point where there is less overall omega generation. That is not a good thing because it means people are less satisfied due to having less options to get what they want.
Personally it has no effect on me, as I suffer the grind for my own supply and don't buy or sell any, but destroying a market is never a good thing, especially if the ridiculous excuse is server loading as people play a minigame. Fix the server issues instead.
^This will NOT help botting, as now everyone will have to Omega farm because you can only get them once a year. This literally is just punishing actual players into hoarding for an entire year worth of Omegas or be screwed for upgrades.
Why would anyone need to farm Omegas when the Phoenix box now runs 365 days a year, and Phoenix upgrades are better?
Really, at this point, Omega upgrades aren't worth it.
I want some of them for the 4X quality boost, maybe even higher with the new crafting option. That's very useful for things like Mark II lock box weapons.
For "everyday upgrading" yes Phoenix is the way to go. Getting piles of dil is much less work than grinding 81 omega bits.
Agreed. The 4x quality boost is what makes them incredibly useful.
While having the Phoenix always available is a good thing, they cannot compare to that particular boost.
And to say that Omegas are not worth it is just a straight up lie.
Its not a straight up lie for many of us Phoenix is easier to get then Omega and with Phoenix now being active 100% of the time there is no point wasting time grinding Omega or crafting.
I don’t see any point wasting time grinding Omega. Why waste all those extra hours doing something completely boring for no worthwhile advantage?
An hour of earning Phoenix will upgrade more items with more quality then an hour of earning Omega. When you could buy Omega off the exchange they where worth while but now there are a waste of time for me. EDIT: Very, very, quick napkin math and earning Phoenix is approx x10 better then Omega. In that I will get 10 Phoenix for every 1 Omega.
LOL, no worthile advantage?
Ok then, no point continuing this discussion.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Having seen someone in chat last night bragging about how they had farmed something like 5*999 of each particle color last year by semi-automating the process, I have to imagine that's what this is for. If people can't sell to others, there's no incentive to engage in macros/botting/etc. Sure, it's a potential source of ec, and the inability to buy up materials for a few more upgrades at the end of the event is a downer... but how much ec was the average player getting out of this anyway?
Personally, I grind enough mats each day for 1 or 2 upgrades for personal use and sell the dregs after the event for pocket change. Of the subset of people for whom this was a significant income source, some large number of those were the kind of farming the devs are looking to stop, so the legitimate grinders take a bit of a hit in the interest of the wider game.
^This will NOT help botting, as now everyone will have to Omega farm because you can only get them once a year. This literally is just punishing actual players into hoarding for an entire year worth of Omegas or be screwed for upgrades.
Why would anyone need to farm Omegas when the Phoenix box now runs 365 days a year, and Phoenix upgrades are better?
Really, at this point, Omega upgrades aren't worth it.
I want some of them for the 4X quality boost, maybe even higher with the new crafting option. That's very useful for things like Mark II lock box weapons.
For "everyday upgrading" yes Phoenix is the way to go. Getting piles of dil is much less work than grinding 81 omega bits.
Agreed. The 4x quality boost is what makes them incredibly useful.
While having the Phoenix always available is a good thing, they cannot compare to that particular boost.
And to say that Omegas are not worth it is just a straight up lie.
Its not a straight up lie for many of us Phoenix is easier to get then Omega and with Phoenix now being active 100% of the time there is no point wasting time grinding Omega or crafting.
I don’t see any point wasting time grinding Omega. Why waste all those extra hours doing something completely boring for no worthwhile advantage?
An hour of earning Phoenix will upgrade more items with more quality then an hour of earning Omega. When you could buy Omega off the exchange they where worth while but now there are a waste of time for me. EDIT: Very, very, quick napkin math and earning Phoenix is approx x10 better then Omega. In that I will get 10 Phoenix for every 1 Omega.
LOL, no worthile advantage?
Ok then, no point continuing this discussion.
There is a logical reason way we say there is no worthwhile advantage so it is worth continuing this discussion if you do not understand why Omega is worse. Last year was different but now with the changes to Omega and changes to Phoenix I cannot find a single reason to go back to using Omega over Phoenix.
Well.. it's a win win situation for me. I have so much leftover that will make a GREAT profit in the exchange today. I sense a HUGE prize increase in these molecules before the nerf hammer hits next week
Having seen someone in chat last night bragging about how they had farmed something like 5*999 of each particle color last year by semi-automating the process, I have to imagine that's what this is for. If people can't sell to others, there's no incentive to engage in macros/botting/etc. Sure, it's a potential source of ec, and the inability to buy up materials for a few more upgrades at the end of the event is a downer... but how much ec was the average player getting out of this anyway?
Personally, I grind enough mats each day for 1 or 2 upgrades for personal use and sell the dregs after the event for pocket change. Of the subset of people for whom this was a significant income source, some large number of those were the kind of farming the devs are looking to stop, so the legitimate grinders take a bit of a hit in the interest of the wider game.
Getting 5k of each particle is a nice bunch of upgrades, 180 something, I think?. I guarantee you I could use those and run out of omega kits before I run out of things to upgrade to gold, personally.
Regardless you have to realize if that person was selling them, there was a demand. If that demand can no longer be met at the exchange console, then those people have no choice but to farm it themselves. Instead of one person farming 24 hours a day, maybe you have 24 people farming 1 hour a day. What is the net benefit of that change? I see no benefit.
What I am seeing no mention of (other than in my own comments) is how this change has no effect on the Whales of the game, but a great effect on those that actually play this event for the EC.
However, refinement techniques have improved since the previous event, so rewards from the minigame will be a bit better, especially for those who score fewer points.
doesn't make up for this
Beginning with this year’s update, all Omega materials will be changed to Bind-to-Account-on-Pickup, rather than being tradeable with other players.
What I am seeing no mention of (other than in my own comments) is how this change has no effect on the Whales of the game, but a great effect on those that actually play this event for the EC.
Whales support Cryptic with real-world cash monies that pays the salaries and keeps the servers running.
Farmers only support Cryptic to the extent that whales pay cash monies to buy their dil and any omegas they choose to buy from farmers using the EC they gained from selling lock box and promo pack goods. If the farmers produce too much dil, the exchange gets pegged at 500 and whales get annoyed because they know they should be getting more dil for their zen.
So yes, Cryptic cares more about the whales than the farmers.
In terms of support of the game, I think the ranking goes:
- whales
- minnows like me who don't really farm, and do spend cash monies buying zen now and then
- 100% free to play who don't farm (so don't load the servers) and who might eventually buy some zen with cash monies
- 100% free to play farmers who load the servers and are only useful to the extent they keep whales happy
Cryptic has apparently decided that omega mass farming had more negatives than whatever positives came from sales to the whales. Whales might just be buying dil for Phoenix upgrades now.
Also looking a bit toxic now too. This isn't a civil discussion anymore (if it ever was civil to begin with), its turned into a heated argument one step down from starting to attack anyone who disagrees...
Just an FYI, since people apparently can't search for an already existing topic, we'll be merging all of the Omega threads here. Thanks. /Merged
^I bet you will...since you know this was a bad move.
Bad move to merge threads to keep the discussion in one place? I think not. But you keep doing you. 😉
^Wow, talking about reading comprehension...I was talking about the nerf not your merging. So quick to response, so slow to understand.
Yes, I knew what you meant. I was being facetious. But you keep doing you. 😉
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
well... i was siting here typing up an entire book it felt like regarding this but decided to delete it and say just this.
I see no issue with the change. If i no longer need to put up with these bot farming server overload during the event and i get more out of my time than before to get upgrades i want. It's a win to me.
As for those now not able to make there years worth of ec from the event... All i can say is find some other way to make ec and if that means you need to play the game to make the ec... well in order not to inflame i will reserve my personal view on that one.
But to one that wants the upgrades and is in fact using them for there self. The event can only be improved by removing the bot farmers and server overload's.
So yes, Cryptic cares more about the whales than the farmers.
While I agree emphatically with your conclusion, where would the whales be without the legitimate farmers?
They would have nothing to buy, cease to play, cease to pay, and then the game dies.
The game needs both the whales and the legitimate farmers to survive.
That is the primary purpose of an Exchange in any game.
The only issue I have with the change is I'm no longer able to sell the loose peanuts I'm required to pick up while AFKing the boring minigame for the event reward.
Wonder if they've actually fixed those instant finish scans that made cesspits like andoria even more annoying or are just hoping the low tier reward will get triggered.
The reward change isn't too bad for console where the controls were done by someone oblivious to the existence of guitar hero or DDR and thought flipping a stick was a good idea.
It's only a nerf if you wasted hours gathering the samples to sell to other players. I've not processed them for a couple of years now as there's no real incentive from the game to upgrade gear outside a few bits for advanced and more for elite. Any other "need" for upgrading is due to peer pressure.
> @foxrockssocks said: > (Quote) > > Getting 5k of each particle is a nice bunch of upgrades, 180 something, I think?. I guarantee you I could use those and run out of omega kits before I run out of things to upgrade to gold, personally. > > Regardless you have to realize if that person was selling them, there was a demand. If that demand can no longer be met at the exchange console, then those people have no choice but to farm it themselves. Instead of one person farming 24 hours a day, maybe you have 24 people farming 1 hour a day. What is the net benefit of that change? I see no benefit.
They didn't specifically say they were selling them, they just said they had farmed that many. I too could run through 180 Omega kits before running out of items to upgrade.
Every click/minigame/interaction/etc is one more thing for the server. If there is an open market for items obtained through repetitive small actions, this encourages more such actions to maximize profit. When some appreciable number of characters are automatically clicking faster and more reliably for longer periods of time than humans, this creates more load on the server. Thus, if the humans creating such characters have less incentive to create them, fewer will exist, and server load will go down by some nonzero amount. QED
1 person doing 24 hours a day is a low, slow demand on the server. 24 people for an hour is 24 times the potential load in a shorter time. True, the work-hours are the same, but it's kinda like saying that slowing a car from 60 to zero in 24s is the same as going from 60 to zero in 1s. If even half of those 24 people coincide with each other and their hour is the same as the hour I would normally use to grind, then my available time is more likely to be impacted. This is all assuming that people would behave like you mention... it's more like 6 people for 24 hr/day and 24 people for 1 hr/day reducing to 1or zero people for 24 hr/day and 24 people for 1 hr/day. The reduction in time spent is likely not going to be with the majority of people but with the minority that make up a disproportionate amount of the load.
It seems a weird thing to do. There are only so many items in the game that actually get traded between characters. The Omega stuff, I would gather a few myself, then shop on the AH to even up the numbers. It's annoying when you get 320 Yellows, 350 Blues, and only 190 reds.
This won't stop bots from botting it (since they will still want plenty for their own accounts, even if not as many as before). It just stops players from trading for them. This doesn't even create an EC or other sink, basically it's just prevents you from using your own EC for something more useful to you.
I prefer to play a game my way, on my schedule. Sort of "My playstyle generates EC and Dil, and I sometimes purchase Zen, and I get to choose what I do with those things to acquire the stuff I want, but didn't want to grind".
Cryptic's plan seems to be "You will play what we tell you, when we make it available, or do without".
Comments
Bots farming omega to sell to people? Well those people that buy it do not have to farm it themselves. With BtA omega bits, they now have to farm it themselves. Net change? Zero.
Bots farming omega for themselves? No change.
People zoning in and out of omega zones, and moving around to get to them, rather than letting bots do the job for them continuously for hours on end? Net negative on server load.
The only scenario where this benefits the server load is if people forgo Omega entirely, or otherwise lessen their omega goals to the point where there is less overall omega generation. That is not a good thing because it means people are less satisfied due to having less options to get what they want.
Personally it has no effect on me, as I suffer the grind for my own supply and don't buy or sell any, but destroying a market is never a good thing, especially if the ridiculous excuse is server loading as people play a minigame. Fix the server issues instead.
Ok then, no point continuing this discussion.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Personally, I grind enough mats each day for 1 or 2 upgrades for personal use and sell the dregs after the event for pocket change. Of the subset of people for whom this was a significant income source, some large number of those were the kind of farming the devs are looking to stop, so the legitimate grinders take a bit of a hit in the interest of the wider game.
Getting 5k of each particle is a nice bunch of upgrades, 180 something, I think?. I guarantee you I could use those and run out of omega kits before I run out of things to upgrade to gold, personally.
Regardless you have to realize if that person was selling them, there was a demand. If that demand can no longer be met at the exchange console, then those people have no choice but to farm it themselves. Instead of one person farming 24 hours a day, maybe you have 24 people farming 1 hour a day. What is the net benefit of that change? I see no benefit.
doesn't make up for this
...
Whales support Cryptic with real-world cash monies that pays the salaries and keeps the servers running.
Farmers only support Cryptic to the extent that whales pay cash monies to buy their dil and any omegas they choose to buy from farmers using the EC they gained from selling lock box and promo pack goods. If the farmers produce too much dil, the exchange gets pegged at 500 and whales get annoyed because they know they should be getting more dil for their zen.
So yes, Cryptic cares more about the whales than the farmers.
In terms of support of the game, I think the ranking goes:
- whales
- minnows like me who don't really farm, and do spend cash monies buying zen now and then
- 100% free to play who don't farm (so don't load the servers) and who might eventually buy some zen with cash monies
- 100% free to play farmers who load the servers and are only useful to the extent they keep whales happy
Cryptic has apparently decided that omega mass farming had more negatives than whatever positives came from sales to the whales. Whales might just be buying dil for Phoenix upgrades now.
At least that's how its looking to me.
Yes, I knew what you meant. I was being facetious. But you keep doing you. 😉
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
I see no issue with the change. If i no longer need to put up with these bot farming server overload during the event and i get more out of my time than before to get upgrades i want. It's a win to me.
As for those now not able to make there years worth of ec from the event... All i can say is find some other way to make ec and if that means you need to play the game to make the ec... well in order not to inflame i will reserve my personal view on that one.
But to one that wants the upgrades and is in fact using them for there self. The event can only be improved by removing the bot farmers and server overload's.
While I agree emphatically with your conclusion, where would the whales be without the legitimate farmers?
They would have nothing to buy, cease to play, cease to pay, and then the game dies.
The game needs both the whales and the legitimate farmers to survive.
That is the primary purpose of an Exchange in any game.
Meh, whatever. I'll just discard them.
The reward change isn't too bad for console where the controls were done by someone oblivious to the existence of guitar hero or DDR and thought flipping a stick was a good idea.
It's only a nerf if you wasted hours gathering the samples to sell to other players. I've not processed them for a couple of years now as there's no real incentive from the game to upgrade gear outside a few bits for advanced and more for elite. Any other "need" for upgrading is due to peer pressure.
> (Quote)
>
> Getting 5k of each particle is a nice bunch of upgrades, 180 something, I think?. I guarantee you I could use those and run out of omega kits before I run out of things to upgrade to gold, personally.
>
> Regardless you have to realize if that person was selling them, there was a demand. If that demand can no longer be met at the exchange console, then those people have no choice but to farm it themselves. Instead of one person farming 24 hours a day, maybe you have 24 people farming 1 hour a day. What is the net benefit of that change? I see no benefit.
They didn't specifically say they were selling them, they just said they had farmed that many. I too could run through 180 Omega kits before running out of items to upgrade.
Every click/minigame/interaction/etc is one more thing for the server. If there is an open market for items obtained through repetitive small actions, this encourages more such actions to maximize profit. When some appreciable number of characters are automatically clicking faster and more reliably for longer periods of time than humans, this creates more load on the server. Thus, if the humans creating such characters have less incentive to create them, fewer will exist, and server load will go down by some nonzero amount. QED
1 person doing 24 hours a day is a low, slow demand on the server. 24 people for an hour is 24 times the potential load in a shorter time. True, the work-hours are the same, but it's kinda like saying that slowing a car from 60 to zero in 24s is the same as going from 60 to zero in 1s. If even half of those 24 people coincide with each other and their hour is the same as the hour I would normally use to grind, then my available time is more likely to be impacted. This is all assuming that people would behave like you mention... it's more like 6 people for 24 hr/day and 24 people for 1 hr/day reducing to 1or zero people for 24 hr/day and 24 people for 1 hr/day. The reduction in time spent is likely not going to be with the majority of people but with the minority that make up a disproportionate amount of the load.
This won't stop bots from botting it (since they will still want plenty for their own accounts, even if not as many as before). It just stops players from trading for them. This doesn't even create an EC or other sink, basically it's just prevents you from using your own EC for something more useful to you.
I prefer to play a game my way, on my schedule. Sort of "My playstyle generates EC and Dil, and I sometimes purchase Zen, and I get to choose what I do with those things to acquire the stuff I want, but didn't want to grind".
Cryptic's plan seems to be "You will play what we tell you, when we make it available, or do without".