The borg became beatable over time for the same reason all unbeatable enemies always do...because if they didn't, they would eventually have to win, which would be the end of the series.
Nah. Voyager could have ended with the Borg still being a threat. The whole point of the Borg was the ability to 'adapt'. They could have disapeered for a while to lick thier wounds and come back stronger.
Voyager DID end with the borg still being a threat. Just not one with an express lane straight to Earth anymore. That was only one of their six transwarp hubs destroyed, and they are obviously capable of building more.
Or would that have a ripple effect causing the Borg to see Earth and the Federation as a more important threat, thus causing them to act more aggressively? IE: the future bearded crazy Riker came from where the Borg have assimilated most of the Federation.
Not to mention, we already saw the Brunali try that same thing with Icheb, and it didn't really work out. The Octanti tried something similar also, with equally ineffective results.
For all the borg are depicted as shambling space zombies, they really are very intelligent. The idea that you could just infect a few and have them spread it to the entire collective depends on them being stupid enough to do that, which they aren't.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Picard's decision not to use the computer virus was not just a moral high ground thing. He chose to use a different contagion instead, one that he thought might be more powerful and effective than the digital one: free thinking.
The game is not "broken" the Easy Mode is 100% intentional.
And the useless "balance pass" didn't demolish DPS, wasn't about demolishing DPS, they just nulled the old best-in-slot items so people would buy new ones.
Something they cut out of the original Borg episode in TNG was finding a room that was full of in-wall drawers, and in each drawer was a baby Borg. At that point the idea was that while some Borg are made, others are true cyborgs from the start. Maybe it is time for that idea again, especially with "good guy" Borg around who would probably not be so into the assimilation schtick.
Well, it's shown both in TNG and Voyager that the Borg are happy to assimilate children. They literally assimilate everyone. Apparently the nanoprobes reconfigure the implants as the child grows or something.
Not quite. There are some races like the Kazon that the Borg refused to assimilate. As long as an alien race doesn't have anything the Borg wants, then they are safe from assimilation.
In a Fakebook group, we say: "You know you're from a lousy species when the Borg refuse to assimilate you as you would soil their perfection.".
This said, there aren't that many sentient species that qualify as such. We never heard from cannon source other species but the Ferengi and the Kazon. And I'm pretty sure the Pakleds would have qualified, should we have cannon material involving both of them at the same time. And even then, the Bord assimilated a couple Ferengis at some point most likely for punctual tactical reasons.
The borg became beatable over time for the same reason all unbeatable enemies always do...because if they didn't, they would eventually have to win, which would be the end of the series.
Nah. Voyager could have ended with the Borg still being a threat. The whole point of the Borg was the ability to 'adapt'. They could have disapeered for a while to lick thier wounds and come back stronger.
Voyager DID end with the borg still being a threat. Just not one with an express lane straight to Earth anymore. That was only one of their six transwarp hubs destroyed, and they are obviously capable of building more.
Except you are forgetting that Admiral Janeway killed the Borg Queen with her neurolytic pathogen. So Voyager ended with more damage to the Borg than just destroying their express lane to Earth.
The problem with the Borg is that they have no creativity, as a "species." There is no value to their diverse assimilation of species when they are forced to all think with one mind. The destruction of the individual limits their ability to adapt to anything more than a reactive measure, which we do see over and over. They don't come up with new ideas and creative solutions, they steal them from other species.
That's completely false. In the franchise, we saw the Borg:
use time travel as a weapon (in First Contact), long before JJ and his buddies abused time travel shenanigans;
use diplomacy/form alliances with non-Borg to defeat common foes (Scorpion, Unimatrix Zero, part 1, Unimatrix Zero, part 2, Shattered, Endgame) ;
devise new weapon against species that out-adapted them (Scorpion, part 2, Dark Frontier, part 2, Unimatrix Zero),
experience compassion (Dark Frontier, part 2, Unimatrix Zero, part 2).
And we need to keep in mind that the Voyager/Borg relationship was special as Voyager needed to trespass on their turf to get home. Also, the Borg were only depicted in a limited number of events, though those were reprised and revisited many many times (Wolf 359 depicted in Best of Both World and DS9 pilot and countless TNG and DS9 dialogues, Battle at sector 001 depicted in First Contact and it's aftermath covered in Regeneration and plenty of DS9 and Voyager episodes. So that's why the Borg scenes seemed a bit déjà vu.
Except you are forgetting that Admiral Janeway killed the Borg Queen with her neurolytic pathogen. So Voyager ended with more damage to the Borg than just destroying their express lane to Earth.
The Queen had died like what? twice before that? Killing the queen doesn't really do anything. They just start up the clone machines and make another.
Hypothesis: There are already many of them active, one mind, many bodies.
The problem with the Borg is that they have no creativity, as a "species." There is no value to their diverse assimilation of species when they are forced to all think with one mind. The destruction of the individual limits their ability to adapt to anything more than a reactive measure, which we do see over and over. They don't come up with new ideas and creative solutions, they steal them from other species.
That's completely false. In the franchise, we saw the Borg:
use time travel as a weapon (in First Contact), long before JJ and his buddies abused time travel shenanigans;
use diplomacy/form alliances with non-Borg to defeat common foes (Scorpion, Unimatrix Zero, part 1, Unimatrix Zero, part 2, Shattered, Endgame) ;
devise new weapon against species that out-adapted them (Scorpion, part 2, Dark Frontier, part 2, Unimatrix Zero),
experience compassion (Dark Frontier, part 2, Unimatrix Zero, part 2).
And we need to keep in mind that the Voyager/Borg relationship was special as Voyager needed to trespass on their turf to get home. Also, the Borg were only depicted in a limited number of events, though those were reprised and revisited many many times (Wolf 359 depicted in Best of Both World and DS9 pilot and countless TNG and DS9 dialogues, Battle at sector 001 depicted in First Contact and it's aftermath covered in Regeneration and plenty of DS9 and Voyager episodes. So that's why the Borg scenes seemed a bit déjà vu.
I don't want to repost what Reyan01 said, but I agree with it.
The time travel was a ludicrously poorly thought out thing but since they never use it again, it shows they aren't very creative as if you have the ability to time travel, you would be looking at how you can affect the timeline in innumerable ways, not just a single minded attempt to attack Earth with a lone cube. Why aren't you waiting for Voyager when it enters the delta quadrant? Why don't you go back in time again to do First Contact right?
The ability to prioritize threats and goals is not any sign of creativity, yet it is also telling that Voyager is somehow going to be too difficult to handle on its own in the Delta quadrant that they can't afford to pull resources from fighting 8472 to just assimilate Voyager and move on. The Borg's limited form of diplomacy is also certainly something they assimilated, not invented.
The ability to adapt after failure is something the Borg do, and it is a reactive measure. They were repeatedly shown to send in their troops to die before they adapt. They also don't seem to understand the value of ranged weaponry on the ground. Why haven't they created a stun weapon to neutralize resistance and prepare a population for easy assimilation? The Federation has had that for hundreds of years.
Why is it the Borg always lose if they are so creative? Janeway's virus, Riker's fakeouts to outsmart Locutus, the Borg are explicitly shown to be uncreative and defeated by simply being creative and doing something unexpected.
the replicators in SG-1 have the same weakness - the only reason they ended up such a threat to the asgard is because they were just as uncreative as their foe, literally defining insanity by doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result, but the first time creative humans enter the fray, boom - they lose
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Except you are forgetting that Admiral Janeway killed the Borg Queen with her neurolytic pathogen. So Voyager ended with more damage to the Borg than just destroying their express lane to Earth.
The Queen had died like what? twice before that? Killing the queen doesn't really do anything. They just start up the clone machines and make another.
Hypothesis: There are already many of them active, one mind, many bodies.
This is almost certainly the case. It would be extremely unlikely for Voyager to continually run into them if there was only one around. It's most likely there is one in every major borg facility, like the transwarp hubs.
Given the Borg has tens of trillions of drones, I see very little point to clone a Queen and not use the best available female candidate.
If the Borg had a person that would be a better Queen then the current one, why wouldn't they have made her into one already?
Likewise, if the current Queen is the best candidate possible, why would they NOT clone her, and instead pick an inferior specimen as a replacement?
Depends on the function they need her for. They picked Picard to lead the first attack on Earth even though, as revealed in FC, there was a queen onboard that cube.
And it's possible we have already seen two different queens, since Voyager used a different actress in some episodes.
Orginally the queen was suppose to be the incarnation of the Borg Hivemind, though even in First Contact there was counterdictory evidence towards that.
Personally I think the best way to rationalize the Borg Queen is that they admin nodes within hivemind created when needed and therefore it's impossible to truly kill the Queen without utterly destroying the borg since unlike other drones there's no unique personality there just what hivemind needed for the current task and as long as the Borg Hivemind exist so will the Queen.
Lt. Joe Tormolen and Lt. Kevin Riley caused the first time travel to occur in Star Trek franchise history in 'The Naked Time' in 1966 so this ain't its first rodeo.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
[...]
the problem is that whatever you do will not matter one whit to the DPS league, and make the borg basically unkillable to a casual player like me
No, the problem is that the game is so broken that it makes such differences in raw numbers performance possible.
The fix would be to scale down in some way the impact of bonuses to damage that the game offers. So instead of doing 100 times the damage of a base player, the DPSers would be doing 1.1 times the damage of that base player, and they'd be hunting for .0.0001 percent on top of that. That way, they'd have the same fun (it might take a minority of people among them some time to emotionally adjust, though, because these people are like children), but enemies like the Borg wouldn't be reduced to ridiculousness.
But of course, if they did that, some small minds would raise their voice how "unfair" that would be, yaddyaddayadaa, and the devs would listen to the idiots and roll it back.
So the Borg and everybody else will remain a laugh, revamp or not, and can already hear the small minds raising their voices right now because someone dared to state the obvious: That the game is broken and the devs don't want to fix it.
you don't understand. Anne has it dead cold. anything that you do to mitigate the UberDPS crowd will kill the ability of a casual DPSer.
IF Bob can do 100K DPS and you nerf it to 10K, whats that nerf going to do to the 15K DPSer? you think anyone can kill a cube doing 1K DPS or lower? and not everyone likes playing on teams. 90% of my gameplay is solo. I only do the disco TFOs because thats the only way to get marks.
I occasionally team up with Anne or Nixie, but that's rare that we are all on at the same time
Comments
For all the borg are depicted as shambling space zombies, they really are very intelligent. The idea that you could just infect a few and have them spread it to the entire collective depends on them being stupid enough to do that, which they aren't.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And the useless "balance pass" didn't demolish DPS, wasn't about demolishing DPS, they just nulled the old best-in-slot items so people would buy new ones.
This said, there aren't that many sentient species that qualify as such. We never heard from cannon source other species but the Ferengi and the Kazon. And I'm pretty sure the Pakleds would have qualified, should we have cannon material involving both of them at the same time. And even then, the Bord assimilated a couple Ferengis at some point most likely for punctual tactical reasons.
Except you are forgetting that Admiral Janeway killed the Borg Queen with her neurolytic pathogen. So Voyager ended with more damage to the Borg than just destroying their express lane to Earth.
And we need to keep in mind that the Voyager/Borg relationship was special as Voyager needed to trespass on their turf to get home. Also, the Borg were only depicted in a limited number of events, though those were reprised and revisited many many times (Wolf 359 depicted in Best of Both World and DS9 pilot and countless TNG and DS9 dialogues, Battle at sector 001 depicted in First Contact and it's aftermath covered in Regeneration and plenty of DS9 and Voyager episodes. So that's why the Borg scenes seemed a bit déjà vu.
My character Tsin'xing
Given the Borg has tens of trillions of drones, I see very little point to clone a Queen and not use the best available female candidate.
Because those in power are often rather reluctant to just give up said power.
I don't want to repost what Reyan01 said, but I agree with it.
The time travel was a ludicrously poorly thought out thing but since they never use it again, it shows they aren't very creative as if you have the ability to time travel, you would be looking at how you can affect the timeline in innumerable ways, not just a single minded attempt to attack Earth with a lone cube. Why aren't you waiting for Voyager when it enters the delta quadrant? Why don't you go back in time again to do First Contact right?
The ability to prioritize threats and goals is not any sign of creativity, yet it is also telling that Voyager is somehow going to be too difficult to handle on its own in the Delta quadrant that they can't afford to pull resources from fighting 8472 to just assimilate Voyager and move on. The Borg's limited form of diplomacy is also certainly something they assimilated, not invented.
The ability to adapt after failure is something the Borg do, and it is a reactive measure. They were repeatedly shown to send in their troops to die before they adapt. They also don't seem to understand the value of ranged weaponry on the ground. Why haven't they created a stun weapon to neutralize resistance and prepare a population for easy assimilation? The Federation has had that for hundreds of years.
Why is it the Borg always lose if they are so creative? Janeway's virus, Riker's fakeouts to outsmart Locutus, the Borg are explicitly shown to be uncreative and defeated by simply being creative and doing something unexpected.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Depends on the function they need her for. They picked Picard to lead the first attack on Earth even though, as revealed in FC, there was a queen onboard that cube.
And it's possible we have already seen two different queens, since Voyager used a different actress in some episodes.
Personally I think the best way to rationalize the Borg Queen is that they admin nodes within hivemind created when needed and therefore it's impossible to truly kill the Queen without utterly destroying the borg since unlike other drones there's no unique personality there just what hivemind needed for the current task and as long as the Borg Hivemind exist so will the Queen.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You rewatch the scene:
you don't understand. Anne has it dead cold. anything that you do to mitigate the UberDPS crowd will kill the ability of a casual DPSer.
IF Bob can do 100K DPS and you nerf it to 10K, whats that nerf going to do to the 15K DPSer? you think anyone can kill a cube doing 1K DPS or lower? and not everyone likes playing on teams. 90% of my gameplay is solo. I only do the disco TFOs because thats the only way to get marks.
I occasionally team up with Anne or Nixie, but that's rare that we are all on at the same time