so blood, saliva, s.emen extraction, hair extraction, skin samples, toenail clippings, bone marrow extraction, etc... and a mindscan; there's your DNA and knowledge - just add cloning facilities and shake well
no need to waste so many resources on fully converting an unwilling participant/entire planet of unwilling participants - but of course, getting the borg to go that route would require removing the delusion that everyone secretly WANTS to be like them
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Or they could be Borg that are so old their organic bodies have mostly failed.
A good theory, but seems unlikely. The former Captain Rebecca Simmons (of the USS Venture), whose task force we joined in the episdoe 'Fluid Dynamics, had a very similar appearance after being assimilated into Manus of Borg:
To be honest, @starkos#7355 theory makes more sense - that the Borg decided to make it all but impossible to liberate drones. As advanced as Federation science may be, we know from the Voyager episode 'Phage' that there were limitations, and in this case we're talking a body with a torso that has has literally nothing but a spine left.
Only problem with that theory is they only do that for the females (Like I said, I think) trying to avoid anything remotely looking like 7 of 9 I imagine.
As for the rest of this thread, I fully agree. At launch, the Borg were the main villains of the end game but even then, the art was lack luster. The Liberate Borg for LTS people didn't even have anything other than a head only skin and a few parts for the face. The skin didn't even cover the hands, so their open uniform explanation still didn't float. Ten years later, and that's still the exact same story.
I have been bugging @ambassadorkael#6946 for a looooong time about it, too. I would absolutely love if the Borg got a serious 2020 overhaul, but visually is a must at this point.
With Picard being very borg heavy show (from the look of it), I'm really hoping that they drop more skins (full body ones). Things like scaring or assimilation signs. More parts and pieces for customizing our characters, including weapons that cover hands like the undine weapon does. There is so much potential and none of it has been achieved.
Initially, the story WAS that the Borg were making it all the harder to un-assimilate drones, so it would be nice to get things that reflect that. With the big ten year anniversary event, I would hope (personal best possible scenario that will never happen) they finally drop the collective as a playable race for everyone while seriously updating and upgrading the Liberated Borg for the LTS crew.
Considering how they haven't even bothered with them since launch, it's doubtful but i really hope 2020 is the year of the Borg.
Something they cut out of the original Borg episode in TNG was finding a room that was full of in-wall drawers, and in each drawer was a baby Borg. At that point the idea was that while some Borg are made, others are true cyborgs from the start. Maybe it is time for that idea again, especially with "good guy" Borg around who would probably not be so into the assimilation schtick.
Well, it's shown both in TNG and Voyager that the Borg are happy to assimilate children. They literally assimilate everyone. Apparently the nanoprobes reconfigure the implants as the child grows or something.
Something they cut out of the original Borg episode in TNG was finding a room that was full of in-wall drawers, and in each drawer was a baby Borg. At that point the idea was that while some Borg are made, others are true cyborgs from the start. Maybe it is time for that idea again, especially with "good guy" Borg around who would probably not be so into the assimilation schtick.
Well, it's shown both in TNG and Voyager that the Borg are happy to assimilate children. They literally assimilate everyone. Apparently the nanoprobes reconfigure the implants as the child grows or something.
Not quite. There are some races like the Kazon that the Borg refused to assimilate. As long as an alien race doesn't have anything the Borg wants, then they are safe from assimilation.
yes, this is the main problem. The Borg are just ridiculous, and you don't need to be a dps monster to kill them in few seconds, but like you said the power creep or the lack of evolution of the foes make the fights not really interesting.
But I don't want OP skills given to the new borg, like the ridiculous feedback pulse or the torp salvo of the terran ships. Foes should have more than 2 skills, they should be able to use evasive manoeuvers, etc.
Alas, I thought you meant there was going to be a borg revamp of how they PLAY, not merely how they look.
The Borg used to be a serious threat. Now they're a joke (like most foes in the game). The main thing about the Borg was always that you couldn't hurt them because they would adapt to your weapons. I once suggested that they should add a mechanic that allowed the Borg shields to become more and more resistant to typed damage, the more often they were hit.
So, for example, if I'm shooting them with phasers, their shields would become more and more resistant, taking less and less damage from phasers, even up to the point of becoming immune to phasers. This wouldn't affect other types of weapons, of course, until their shields became immune to those too. They would still take bleedthrough, of course, and if they had no shields for whatever reason, they would take damage normally.
I thought this might make fighting even a singe cube a real threat again... but then I saw people obliterating them in less than a second and realized the game balance is so broken, there may be no way to fix anything now.
the problem is that whatever you do will not matter one whit to the DPS league, and make the borg basically unkillable to a casual player like me
Alas, I thought you meant there was going to be a borg revamp of how they PLAY, not merely how they look.
The Borg used to be a serious threat. Now they're a joke (like most foes in the game). The main thing about the Borg was always that you couldn't hurt them because they would adapt to your weapons. I once suggested that they should add a mechanic that allowed the Borg shields to become more and more resistant to typed damage, the more often they were hit.
So, for example, if I'm shooting them with phasers, their shields would become more and more resistant, taking less and less damage from phasers, even up to the point of becoming immune to phasers. This wouldn't affect other types of weapons, of course, until their shields became immune to those too. They would still take bleedthrough, of course, and if they had no shields for whatever reason, they would take damage normally.
I thought this might make fighting even a singe cube a real threat again... but then I saw people obliterating them in less than a second and realized the game balance is so broken, there may be no way to fix anything now.
the problem is that whatever you do will not matter one whit to the DPS league, and make the borg basically unkillable to a casual player like me
Yep. I want to play Space Barbie not min-max my DPS
I do upgrade my gear to Mark XV and put together a decent build, but for example my Tholian ship captain uses Tetryon beams, the web consoles, web mine, etc. even though that hurts DPS a bit.
One thought would be to force the DPS elites into their own Elite++ TFOs and alerts, but then we'd also need a gear check to force the low-DPS people to stay in Normal difficulty until they are really ready for advanced and elite. Often the DPS elites make up for a team of people looking for marks who really aren't prepared.
certain missions set in the past had different skins. Not queues, or Defera, just story missions.
EDIT: https://sto.gamepedia.com/Drone
apparently they're also in Khitomer Stasis.
certain missions set in the past had different skins. Not queues, or Defera, just story missions.
EDIT: https://sto.gamepedia.com/Drone
apparently they're also in Khitomer Stasis.
Those classic drones look like they're doing the Robot.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I would LOVE to see the old assimilation map return. The revamped map may be more visually pleasing, but the old map had a maze and tons of Borg.
This was before the tommy gun era where Borg were something of a challenge.
Refined loads of anti Borg tactics on that map.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Compared to those encountered in the 24th Century, the players encounter a different kind of Borg. They seem to have evolved into a more integrated cybernetic life form. Implants are more tightly integrated into the bodies. However these Borg do not demonstrate any noticeable differences in behavior or abilities than their predecessors.
Compared to those encountered in the 24th Century, the players encounter a different kind of Borg. They seem to have evolved into a more integrated cybernetic life form. Implants are more tightly integrated into the bodies. However these Borg do not demonstrate any noticeable differences in behavior or abilities than their predecessors.
it is perhaps time to make them evolve.
Well dispite what they claim the Borg Collective's ability to evolve is actually quite poor, they can assimilate and integrate new things with some consistency but they're ability to invent and evolve independently is (near) non-existant at least in the avaible canon material.
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> Something they cut out of the original Borg episode in TNG was finding a room that was full of in-wall drawers, and in each drawer was a baby Borg. At that point the idea was that while some Borg are made, others are true cyborgs from the start. Maybe it is time for that idea again, especially with "good guy" Borg around who would probably not be so into the assimilation schtick.
> @sennahcherib said:
> yes, this is the main problem. The Borg are just ridiculous, and you don't need to be a dps monster to kill them in few seconds, but like you said the power creep or the lack of evolution of the foes make the fights not really interesting.
>
> But I don't want OP skills given to the new borg, like the ridiculous feedback pulse or the torp salvo of the terran ships. Foes should have more than 2 skills, they should be able to use evasive manoeuvers, etc.
There are no OP skills possessed by the Terrans or anyone else.
x 10 with an average damage by pulse 10 000, and I hadn't used faw;
my ship with a hull of 120 329 hp was destroyed in a couple of seconds and i tried everything to avoid the destruction, dprm, brace for impact etc, with no results. if my feedback pulse used by my toon with 448 in epg, could do half the damages done by the TRIBBLE' Terran feedback pulse, I would be happy.
oh! btw, the feedback pulse used by the Borg; 1 shot me with 1 pulse of 212 000 damage, and I was at 9.5 meters. Nooooooooooo, their skills are not op.
One idea I actually quite like as a concept for a new type or design of Borg would be tied to why they collect the DNA of so many races. The idea being that they actually could use the DNA to create the perfect ultimate organic body that would serve as the platform for the cybernetic aspects that are added on. Even the idea of the Borg seeking for a method of gaining the ability of using mind-based powers like telepathy or telekinesis for instance, might be an interesting aspect to why they are collecting the DNA of so many races thru assimilating, as such a power they do not possess or understand would draw their attention.
Personally wish we could see the Borg atleast in space be more interesting, and interactive in how we fight them. Giving them some mechanics or buffs/debuffs that we can affect/interact with thru using our own abilities would be a fun change of pace to fight them.
But that's going against the borg's MO, assimilation. AI is easy in Star Trek, and there is technology to upload minds into computers, too. For mass assimilation to make sense, there needs to be an advantage to using organic lifeforms for drones, instead of just building robots. They are either better somehow, more resource-efficient to produce and operate, or both. Case in point, the queens' organic components are cloned. If that were the standard, why assimilate lots of average Joes when they could instead copy the best?
The point of assimilating everyone is to get a copy of their DNA and knowledge. As Seven of Nine notes in Voyager, once you get assimilated, everything gets copied into the hivemind, which is why drones are so expendable to the Borg. Since they can never really die.
Which is the point of assimilating Picard or similar important person. The only reason to come to Earth or whatever planet-of-the-week to pick up billions of nobodies is manpower.
I don't agree that the Borg need a visual upgrade.
The Borg without organs are just space zombies, and that old trope has been trodden to death a thousand times.
The trouble is the more you try to 'explain' a scary thing, the less scary it gets. Take for instance 'Alien', the first film was scary as hell, the rest went down the drain the more the 'Alien' was explained.
The Borg were scary not because they 'looked' scary, but because they were inexorable. Take the first instance the Enterprise encountered a Borg cube, the efforts of the Enterprise were indeed' futile' and the encounter truly frightening (the same goes for Wolf 359).
And then compare it to the later seasons of Voyager where we see Borg cubes litterly being '1 shotted' by a single Federation ship. Yes it was all explained by time travel shenanigans, but all's it actually succeeded in doing was making the Federations greatest enemy pi$$ weak. Voyager could have been depicted as escaping the Borg without turning them into such weaklings.
In the game, when the Borg say 'resistance is futile' it should feel like a threat, and not 'ironically comical'.
I don't agree that the Borg need a visual upgrade.
The Borg without organs are just space zombies, and that old trope has been trodden to death a thousand times.
The trouble is the more you try to 'explain' a scary thing, the less scary it gets. Take for instance 'Alien', the first film was scary as hell, the rest went down the drain the more the 'Alien' was explained.
The Borg were scary not because they 'looked' scary, but because they were inexorable. Take the first instance the Enterprise encountered a Borg cube, the efforts of the Enterprise were indeed' futile' and the encounter truly frightening (the same goes for Wolf 359).
And then compare it to the later seasons of Voyager where we see Borg cubes litterly being '1 shotted' by a single Federation ship. Yes it was all explained by time travel shenanigans, but all's it actually succeeded in doing was making the Federations greatest enemy pi$$ weak. Voyager could have been depicted as escaping the Borg without turning them into such weaklings.
In the game, when the Borg say 'resistance is futile' it should feel like a threat, and not 'ironically comical'.
The borg became beatable over time for the same reason all unbeatable enemies always do...because if they didn't, they would eventually have to win, which would be the end of the series.
The borg became beatable over time for the same reason all unbeatable enemies always do...because if they didn't, they would eventually have to win, which would be the end of the series.
Nah. Voyager could have ended with the Borg still being a threat. The whole point of the Borg was the ability to 'adapt'. They could have disapeered for a while to lick thier wounds and come back stronger.
Guess I'm the only one that hated that Picard had to take the moral high ground when he didn't infect Hugh and send him back to the collective to rid the galaxy of the, to me, boring space zombies. I prefer a brand new challenge instead of rehashing old and tired foes.
Guess I'm the only one that hated that Picard had to take the moral high ground when he didn't infect Hugh and send him back to the collective to rid the galaxy of the, to me, boring space zombies.
Or would that have a ripple effect causing the Borg to see Earth and the Federation as a more important threat, thus causing them to act more aggressively? IE: the future bearded crazy Riker came from where the Borg have assimilated most of the Federation.
Guess I'm the only one that hated that Picard had to take the moral high ground when he didn't infect Hugh and send him back to the collective to rid the galaxy of the, to me, boring space zombies. I prefer a brand new challenge instead of rehashing old and tired foes.
Well, definitely agree with the 'boring space zombies' comment. I'm afraid my opinion is that the Borg have become a rather boring, predictable, crutch for the franchsie.
I agree. The Borg have never been done consistently through the shows as it is which makes them a problem. Janeway kicked their butt. Even Enterprise D ended up winning every time. While the Borg are fine as an ever present threat, they are definitely played out in ST and STO.
The problem with the Borg is that they have no creativity, as a "species." There is no value to their diverse assimilation of species when they are forced to all think with one mind. The destruction of the individual limits their ability to adapt to anything more than a reactive measure, which we do see over and over. They don't come up with new ideas and creative solutions, they steal them from other species.
Also I would not remotely agree that Picard took the moral high ground. The Borg are an existential threat to all sentient life (except the Kazon) and deserve extermination because they will attempt to do the same. The moral thing to do isn't to allow such a threat to exist, but to defeat it.
Afterall, we can ask, how many lives did Picard save with that action? How many millions have been assimilated since then? How many billions destroyed in the ensuing conflicts with the Borg? The Borg can't be negotiated with, there can't be any peace with them, so there is no moral value to showing them mercy or letting them continue to exist.
they should be exterminated once and for all, and the star trek franchise advances and invents new enemies that deserve our attention. borgs are hopelessly annoying.
Comments
no need to waste so many resources on fully converting an unwilling participant/entire planet of unwilling participants - but of course, getting the borg to go that route would require removing the delusion that everyone secretly WANTS to be like them
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Only problem with that theory is they only do that for the females (Like I said, I think) trying to avoid anything remotely looking like 7 of 9 I imagine.
Where were these guys at?
As for the rest of this thread, I fully agree. At launch, the Borg were the main villains of the end game but even then, the art was lack luster. The Liberate Borg for LTS people didn't even have anything other than a head only skin and a few parts for the face. The skin didn't even cover the hands, so their open uniform explanation still didn't float. Ten years later, and that's still the exact same story.
I have been bugging @ambassadorkael#6946 for a looooong time about it, too. I would absolutely love if the Borg got a serious 2020 overhaul, but visually is a must at this point.
With Picard being very borg heavy show (from the look of it), I'm really hoping that they drop more skins (full body ones). Things like scaring or assimilation signs. More parts and pieces for customizing our characters, including weapons that cover hands like the undine weapon does. There is so much potential and none of it has been achieved.
Initially, the story WAS that the Borg were making it all the harder to un-assimilate drones, so it would be nice to get things that reflect that. With the big ten year anniversary event, I would hope (personal best possible scenario that will never happen) they finally drop the collective as a playable race for everyone while seriously updating and upgrading the Liberated Borg for the LTS crew.
Considering how they haven't even bothered with them since launch, it's doubtful but i really hope 2020 is the year of the Borg.
My character Tsin'xing
Not quite. There are some races like the Kazon that the Borg refused to assimilate. As long as an alien race doesn't have anything the Borg wants, then they are safe from assimilation.
But I don't want OP skills given to the new borg, like the ridiculous feedback pulse or the torp salvo of the terran ships. Foes should have more than 2 skills, they should be able to use evasive manoeuvers, etc.
the problem is that whatever you do will not matter one whit to the DPS league, and make the borg basically unkillable to a casual player like me
Yep. I want to play Space Barbie not min-max my DPS
I do upgrade my gear to Mark XV and put together a decent build, but for example my Tholian ship captain uses Tetryon beams, the web consoles, web mine, etc. even though that hurts DPS a bit.
One thought would be to force the DPS elites into their own Elite++ TFOs and alerts, but then we'd also need a gear check to force the low-DPS people to stay in Normal difficulty until they are really ready for advanced and elite. Often the DPS elites make up for a team of people looking for marks who really aren't prepared.
EDIT:
https://sto.gamepedia.com/Drone
apparently they're also in Khitomer Stasis.
My character Tsin'xing
Those classic drones look like they're doing the Robot.
This was before the tommy gun era where Borg were something of a challenge.
Refined loads of anti Borg tactics on that map.
it is perhaps time to make them evolve.
Well dispite what they claim the Borg Collective's ability to evolve is actually quite poor, they can assimilate and integrate new things with some consistency but they're ability to invent and evolve independently is (near) non-existant at least in the avaible canon material.
terran multi-mission crapship:
1 pulse - 14414 (29367) damage
idem - 7246 (19654)
etc -12314 (27945)
etc - 6791 (15412)
etc -3853 (10935)
x 10 with an average damage by pulse 10 000, and I hadn't used faw;
my ship with a hull of 120 329 hp was destroyed in a couple of seconds and i tried everything to avoid the destruction, dprm, brace for impact etc, with no results. if my feedback pulse used by my toon with 448 in epg, could do half the damages done by the TRIBBLE' Terran feedback pulse, I would be happy.
oh! btw, the feedback pulse used by the Borg; 1 shot me with 1 pulse of 212 000 damage, and I was at 9.5 meters. Nooooooooooo, their skills are not op.
Personally wish we could see the Borg atleast in space be more interesting, and interactive in how we fight them. Giving them some mechanics or buffs/debuffs that we can affect/interact with thru using our own abilities would be a fun change of pace to fight them.
The Borg without organs are just space zombies, and that old trope has been trodden to death a thousand times.
The trouble is the more you try to 'explain' a scary thing, the less scary it gets. Take for instance 'Alien', the first film was scary as hell, the rest went down the drain the more the 'Alien' was explained.
The Borg were scary not because they 'looked' scary, but because they were inexorable. Take the first instance the Enterprise encountered a Borg cube, the efforts of the Enterprise were indeed' futile' and the encounter truly frightening (the same goes for Wolf 359).
And then compare it to the later seasons of Voyager where we see Borg cubes litterly being '1 shotted' by a single Federation ship. Yes it was all explained by time travel shenanigans, but all's it actually succeeded in doing was making the Federations greatest enemy pi$$ weak. Voyager could have been depicted as escaping the Borg without turning them into such weaklings.
In the game, when the Borg say 'resistance is futile' it should feel like a threat, and not 'ironically comical'.
Nah. Voyager could have ended with the Borg still being a threat. The whole point of the Borg was the ability to 'adapt'. They could have disapeered for a while to lick thier wounds and come back stronger.
Something does not have to 'win' to be scary.
They could add fleet marks to the rewards so when I randomly get into a STO-Random™ borg queue I have the option for something besides omega marks
My character Tsin'xing
I agree. The Borg have never been done consistently through the shows as it is which makes them a problem. Janeway kicked their butt. Even Enterprise D ended up winning every time. While the Borg are fine as an ever present threat, they are definitely played out in ST and STO.
The problem with the Borg is that they have no creativity, as a "species." There is no value to their diverse assimilation of species when they are forced to all think with one mind. The destruction of the individual limits their ability to adapt to anything more than a reactive measure, which we do see over and over. They don't come up with new ideas and creative solutions, they steal them from other species.
Also I would not remotely agree that Picard took the moral high ground. The Borg are an existential threat to all sentient life (except the Kazon) and deserve extermination because they will attempt to do the same. The moral thing to do isn't to allow such a threat to exist, but to defeat it.
Afterall, we can ask, how many lives did Picard save with that action? How many millions have been assimilated since then? How many billions destroyed in the ensuing conflicts with the Borg? The Borg can't be negotiated with, there can't be any peace with them, so there is no moral value to showing them mercy or letting them continue to exist.