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Thinking of returning to STO

sevenofmeowsevenofmeow Member Posts: 14 Arc User
I've been gone from STO for a couple of years, but I was thinking about returning. I love the Star Trek universe, but I was upset about the Foundry closing and about what I viewed as too much emphasis on monetization. What's the state of the game these days? Is it worth reinstalling? I realize this is a really subjective question, so I guess I'm looking for opinions on what STO is doing well and not so well these days.
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    It is really hard to say. They've hinted at some promising ideas, like possibly making lockbox ships account wide, however there is no guarantee that will happen. They also have been running free T6 ship coupon events, which let you use your old featured STF tokens to accelerate, so you might still be able to get the current T6 coupon event if you come back for the final event, though you might have to do a small buyout. Everyone can use most Romulan ships now, which means yes you can buy the Romulan part of a ship pack and all your KDF or Fed characters have access to their traits and admiralty cards that way. Event participation tokens have also been improved, letting you do more than just whatever STF is the event to get your participation.

    The content is becoming too timegated and formulaic which isn't healthy at all. The dilithium exchange is not in a healthy state. They've also been releasing ugly ugly KDF ships in packs with a Fed ship, and no Romulan ship. It also feels like they are pushing R&D packs as the heavier monetizing force going forward, which means lots of useless materials if you want to chase some of the most coveted ships they stick in these packs.

    Personally I think they are trying to change some things for the better, but there are a lot of troubling indicators there too that are a cause for concern. Overall I'm hopeful for the future of the game, as I see enough good faith efforts to push things in a positive direction, even though there are some other problems that don't seem to be addressed or look bad for the future.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,523 Arc User
    Tastes really are subjective as you've said. Only you can decide if you like a game. The only 100% guaranteed way would be to try it for yourself.
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    Events as of late have been a lot more 'Play how you want/there's multiple ways to earn progress'. We've been getting a lot of R&D promotions lately, but the Phoenix Packs are now always available. Earning T6 ship vouchers seems to be a re-occuring thing. A new section was added to the C-Store; Mudd's Market. It's.. a pretty terribly monetized way to get old 'exclusive' stuff that is either no longer available or heavily pouched by scalpers. Game performance has been pretty messy for the past several months with inexplicable fits of rubber-banding/dropped inputs.

    Ultimately, it depends what you want out of your experience. If I were to offer a suggestion: Play it for the winter event. The ship is quite excellent, and you may appreciate having it.. whether you stick with the game or come check out things later down the road. The time it takes you to acquire the ship should give you enough time to figure out if you enjoy where the game is at or not.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    I think it's worth playing, but the only way you can know for sure is install it and play it.

    It's free, it costs you nothing but time to try it.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,904 Arc User
    "Will I like this food?"

    Maybe?

    It's free. Try it, see for yourself. The state of the game is fine, but whether you enjoy it depends on you.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    I think the devs honestly care and want to treat the players and customers right but PWE are cruel and out of touch overlords and usually will not allow them to do what they know they should.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @gradii said:
    > I think the devs honestly care and want to treat the players and customers right but PWE are cruel and out of touch overlords and usually will not allow them to do what they know they should.

    That the most ridiculous pile of tripe I've heard all day.

    so you believe the devs are at fault and not the PWE overlords?

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,523 Arc User
    What's the state of the game these days?
    It's free. Try it, see for yourself. The state of the game is fine, but whether you enjoy it depends on you.
    ^ My vote for best answer.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,904 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @gradii said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > so you believe the devs are at fault and not the PWE overlords?

    Also wrong. I do not believe there is a problem and therefore there is no fault to be assigned. In fact given the absolutely unheard of level of collaboration between the Devs and the Producers/Writers of the franchise I believe all involved deserve huge ptaise.

    Yep regardless of your opinion of the series, getting Discovery actors, ships, tie-in episodes while Discovery is still on the air is the sign of a healthy development process that's miles away from DOOM.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,993 Arc User
    i imagine B5 might've been if the only game the series (n)ever got hadn't been canceled​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    gradii wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @gradii said:
    > I think the devs honestly care and want to treat the players and customers right but PWE are cruel and out of touch overlords and usually will not allow them to do what they know they should.

    That the most ridiculous pile of tripe I've heard all day.

    so you believe the devs are at fault and not the PWE overlords?

    If you hate the game so much, simply don't play it.

    It's not a job, you don't have to go even when you don't want to. If you don't like it, why bother playing it at all?

    You should find another avenue to entertain yourself and let the OP draw his/her own conclusion.
    Post edited by seaofsorrows on
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @gradii said:
    > I think the devs honestly care and want to treat the players and customers right but PWE are cruel and out of touch overlords and usually will not allow them to do what they know they should.

    That the most ridiculous pile of tripe I've heard all day.

    so you believe the devs are at fault and not the PWE overlords?

    If you hate the game so much, simply don't play it.

    It's not a job, you don't have to go even when you don't want to. If you don't like it, why bother playing it at all?

    You should find another avenue to entertain yourself and let the OP draw his/her own conclusion.

    you cannot pretend that the level of development we see in STO is anywhere remotely close to what a healthy game backed by a decently sized company would recieve. that is completely intellectually dishonest.

    Of course I want the best for the game since its the only one of its kind which takes place in the "real" star trek universe, but I will not pretend that everything is awesome becuase it is most certainly not.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    you cannot pretend that the level of development we see in STO is anywhere remotely close to what a healthy game backed by a decently sized company would recieve. that is completely intellectually dishonest.

    Intellectual Dishonesty is defined as the application of intentionally committed fallacies being applied to an argument or debate.

    In your example, you are taking your own opinion of the state of the game, applying it as fact and then accusing others of illogical or even dishonest motivation for not agreeing.

    In other words.. Pot.. kettle.. black.


    You don't speak for everyone, and your opinions are not facts.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I've been gone from STO for a couple of years, but I was thinking about returning. I love the Star Trek universe, but I was upset about the Foundry closing and about what I viewed as too much emphasis on monetization. What's the state of the game these days? Is it worth reinstalling? I realize this is a really subjective question, so I guess I'm looking for opinions on what STO is doing well and not so well these days.

    As a Foundry author I might be able to add a little perspective. Upside: game is still here. Downside: you will feel the hole. Cryptic's updated patrols and those offer a surprising amount of narrative content but it's just filling the gaps left by their more streamlined and linear mission style. We still don't have a lot that mitigates for such a large content vacuum, particularly in areas of the game that aren't feeding the DPS progression/loot box monster (ex. optional dialog, character interactions, systematic world building, things to do on social maps beyond Risa/Q.) As an RPG STO feels pretty barren to me these days.

    Events were also updated and the main story has moved back to 2410 but don't expect there to be a plethora of interesting connections fully realized through targeted writing. They've only taken baby steps to integrating the design lessons of the Foundry. More critically I don't think they appreciate what's been lost with community dynamics. Ie. other modes of interaction between players than what their core gameplay loop provides and those that feed towards constructive endeavors and creative expression. We've never been able to engage Cryptic in that conversation under current STO management. They're responding to the "obvious to all" decline (Isaac Asimov reference) with a pivot towards zen monetization (players keep burning down promo box threads.) However, these announcement threads have also been burning down (folks chose not to do the math or try to reconcile past feedback with new monetization) and community subgroups like ex-Foundry authors and top screenshot artists have been notably shifting focus and dialing down their output (with secondary impacts on those they interact with and so on.)

    If Cryptic wants to have a sociological discussion about how games stay good, there's a few things they can do to improve things at a deeper level (keywords: diversity, immersion, and player-to-player-creative-interactions, look at how players respond to Space Barbie guys) but again I don't think that's a company priority ATM. They're riding high on Star Trek's revival and that (I think) is doing a lot to provide a countervailing trend towards stability or growth (generating interest which the game is less able to do on its own) to the growing dysfunction in how STO works at a psychological level (their analyses probably can't parse out those underlying sources of variation.) And by the time that stuff does show at an "obvious to all" level it'll probably be easier to pivot to even more reductive design (see. trends in mobile gaming) than try to re-cultivate what we had with the Foundry and player dynamics then.

    All in all the game is "what you left behind plus some QoL updates" (ex. hair physics, new female hairstyles, animated antennae/caitian ears, patrol tab of PVE queues, multiple activities count per event, some neat c-store ships) and works pretty well for its specialized content focus (episodes, PVE grinding, and space barbie). However, the social dynamics haven't improved (owing to "big picture" game design) and don't look like they're going to on the mid and long term. Anniversary 10 is probably worth coming back to the game, there's a big content update then which is likely to reveal long-term content focus. Now might be a little on the depressing side (nearly the same Q event, everything else stands in relief.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Intellectual Dishonesty is defined as the application of intentionally committed fallacies being applied to an argument or debate.

    Such as defining "the game has a lower content output" as an opinion. By literal definition, that's an idea. You can treat that to quantitative analysis, ie. itemize development AND its psychological impact (look at the rates and how components of a system interact.)

    An opinion is better represented by "I like this" or "I dislike this." That doesn't deny the objective validity of whatever is liked or disliked but those opinions ARE stating fact (the orientation of the individual giving that opinion.) Where they intersect with ideas you can have a discussion but whether that changes opinion is up to the personal priorities of those having them. Opting NOT to do this in favor of "pot, kettle, black" or "if you hate the game don't play it" (leveraging force of personality) doesn't move discussion one inch.

    (And for full disclosure: I think the rate of content output is either a bit higher in some areas or indistinguishable from long term trends. If I wanted to show that though I'd go to the numbers. No matter how low someone else goes, you can do better and for the OP's purpose it would be much easier to judge whether the game is worth it FOR THEM to come back to STO if points can be made with a greater emphasis on mutual intelligibility and understanding.)

    This would be an opportunity to elaborate on recent content development, monetization concerns (full disclosure, the OP is going to find out what has or hasn't changed when they log in), and how these factor into the player experience. Help them make the most informed decision possible (they obviously know the game is free and if they were concerned about content and monetization before the Foundry sunset that's going to be a factor for them now as well, irrespective of how you feel about it.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    azrael605 wrote: »
    We get new content every few months, most MMOs do not, even new ones. As for "games backed by decently sized companies". Have you seen what Bethesda has done in Fallout 76? They are a hundred times the size of Cryptic and they have screwed the pooch from day 1 on that game.

    It's not the most informative comparison though to only look at the worst or the average of the genre. ;)

    Warframe I think is the top mark so that's what I'll mention here as a way of highlighting some aspects of STO, relevant to the OP. They have new content every few months (including much more ambitious development projects) and have a much more diverse ecosystem of perpetual activities than STO. These are very directly integrated into the lore of the game and even go so far as to enrich worldbuilding, tell character-centric stories, and move the plot along. Ie. the game does a really good job at enriching it's human experience. The player also has direct personal motivations for continuing on with the plot which have been leveraged for the most recent story arcs (and speaking as a Foundry author: this is BY NO MEANS a unique function of working with a new IP.) The monetization mechanic also does without loot boxes and their space barbie offerings are quite considerable. Trade offs: the grind is more omnipresent, their early content hasn't been streamlined, and the paywalls are a bit harder. Plus, it's not Star Trek.

    Cryptic does well but I think what they're adopting from their competition in response has been much more focused on mechanics (ex. endeavors, multi-part events, rotating item availability in stores) with much less attention paid to incorporating these as part of a single immersive experience (see. their Star Trek "theme park" analogy.) Never the less, they have all the pieces for a higher level experience just without the overall synthetic design. The Foundry is what compensated for this for many and while Cryptic has maintained core expectations and grown in some areas (ie. patrols) there is still that gap and that demonstrable potential still to reach.

    For the OP, I think how STO acquits itself (longer term) will be on how much Cryptic makes synthetic narrative development and integrated worldbuilding a priority. Ie. not on the difference between "DOOOOOOM" and "the game's good" but "the game's good" and "here's what an MMO can mean to people."
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
    Memorial Tour

    For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,099 Arc User
    I've been gone from STO for a couple of years, but I was thinking about returning. I love the Star Trek universe, but I was upset about the Foundry closing and about what I viewed as too much emphasis on monetization. What's the state of the game these days? Is it worth reinstalling? I realize this is a really subjective question, so I guess I'm looking for opinions on what STO is doing well and not so well these days.

    As others have already said, the best thing you can do is to try it out yourself.
    Only you know exactly why you stopped playing in the first place, and only you can say if the present state of the game is what it should be *for you*.

    I have my own gripes with this game that some, in this post, will be very aquainted with by this point, but they bear no importance to what you're asking because, as I said, they are *my own*.

    Seriously, just try it out - up to and through the entire Anniversary Event - and see how you like it.
    What's the worst that can happen?​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • sevenofmeowsevenofmeow Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Thank you all for your input. What is the timeline of the Anniversary Event?

    Also, I don't recall what Patrols are. Could you please refresh my recollection?
    Post edited by sevenofmeow on
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,523 Arc User
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Anniversary_Event
    https://arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11240293-new-ways-to-play-patrols%21

    Star Trek Online General Discussion - This forum is for both the general discussion and feedback related to Star Trek Online.
    The Academy - New and confused still? Got questions about Star Trek Online and how things work? Come on in and ask here!

    Just my 2 EC, I really hope that "state of the game" threads, no matter how they're worded, are confined to general discussion in the future. Just my opinion.
  • kronin#4685 kronin Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    RUN!!! SAVE YOURSELF!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE IN HERE!!!! Oh, no...oh, no...they're coming for me, I don't have much time. Just, get as fare away as you can as fast as possible. I'll try to hold them off, I-
    *some time later*
    I'm sorry. Excuse my emotional outburst. I was confused. It's really quite pleasant here. I like it here. We're all happy here. Won't you come join us? You'll be happy here, too. Become one of us, and see how happy you can be. You can leave anytime you want, but, no one ever wants to leave. Oh, I have to go, now. I think it's time to take our meds. I hope you join us.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,523 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Since nobody asked why -

    Perhaps I have a bit of an idealistic view of the Academy portion of the forum as being a place in which new and old players alike can ask questions about 'how things work' in an environment that's as apolitical (game view neutral) as possible.

    This one worked out pretty well...

    ^ That's it :smile:
    Post edited by protoneous on
  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,827 Arc User
    10 year anniversary is coming up ,so definitely time to return. and current event winter ship is also a nice one to have
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