The show might not go there if it is set and concluded before the war. On the other hoof it makes sense to change the age of the Oddyssey class. Due to STOs nature as a MMO with collectible ships we are to believe that the Oddy is replaced by a new [T6] class (not a refit) hardly a year later. In STO, countless new ship classes are thrown out in a few months not to speak of all the wars and catastrophic events happening at the same time, including the destruction of ESD and the fleet's infrastructure. STO's "it happens all in 2409/10" is really stretching it. It'd make sense to adjust it.
We should be in the 2420s or 2430s not 2411 with how much has happened in STO.
So, one must assume that the first prototype for the Odyssey-class was rushed into service in order to assist with the evacuation of ch'Rihan and ch'Havran (okay, Romulus and Remus, but my headcanon includes Duane's novels). The first ship to leave dock isn't always the class-namer; what with construction delays and learning events, it's starting to look like the USS Gerald R. Ford might wind up being the second or third ship of her class to launch, rather than the first.
True, in fact the TOS Constitution class came out like that, USS Constitution was the class ship but technically USS Enterprise was the first operational ship of that class. It could explain the differences in hardpoint locations between Enterprise and the "standard" design too, the track phasers that run along the ventral dome ring could have been dropped in favor of the ball turrets around the rim after Enterprise was commissioned.
"Canon" in this event must be up to the IP holder, because after fifty-three years of Trek in various forms including seven series, fourteen movies, several video games, and innumerable novels, there are waaaay too many contradictory tales floating about. (Heck, if you define "canon" strictly enough, and some people here do, TOS contradicted itself on at least nine separate occasions.) We don't exactly have a Council of Nice to thrash all this out, after all.
This would not be the first time there was a quasi-expansion of Trek canon. At least one Voyager novel, written by one of the show's writers or something like that (I don't have time to look it up right now), was said to be canon while the show was running but apparently slipped back out later, for instance.
In fact, for a while the stuff from FASA was officially quasi-canon at about the same level as TAS (a non-binding low canon where any point would be overwritten by higher canon automatically) for a little while which is why FASA could not publish anything Trek related until until each peice of the material passed a canon compliance check at Paramount, and it too was dropped after a while, so there is a precedent for select games floating in and out of (quasi) canon.
Until there is a website hosted by the Star Trek IP Owner stating what is canon, then there will always be confusion about what is canon and what is not. The only definitive rule that we can rely on is that any official Star Trek series or movie is canon.
The only reason there is confusion is because people make up things like 'soft canon' which is not a thing. Just look at the definition of 'quasi canon' above and note that it literally brings nothing new to the table. There is a canon the shows repeatedly refer to which are the shows and movies. And everything else is not part of that canon unless it is brought up in a show, at which point it becomes part of canon. There is no soft, quasi, pseudo or hard canon. Just canon and not canon.
If things regarding tech or world building aren't canonically adressed nothing stops you from picking your favorite version to fill in, but that doesn't mean this is becoming caramel toffee canon.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Until there is a website hosted by the Star Trek IP Owner stating what is canon, then there will always be confusion about what is canon and what is not. The only definitive rule that we can rely on is that any official Star Trek series or movie is canon.
Even if such a site existed, people will say its wrong and state what they feel is canon because personal headcanon trumps actual canon, and anyone who disagrees must be educated with extreme prejudice.
Hell... we've seen that kind of behavior on these very forums in the past regarding Discovery and the Kelvin Timeline.
The only reason there is confusion is because people make up things like 'soft canon' which is not a thing. Just look at the definition of 'quasi canon' above and note that it literally brings nothing new to the table. There is a canon the shows repeatedly refer to which are the shows and movies. And everything else is not part of that canon unless it is brought up in a show, at which point it becomes part of canon. There is no soft, quasi, pseudo or hard canon. Just canon and not canon.
If things regarding tech or world building aren't canonically adressed nothing stops you from picking your favorite version to fill in, but that doesn't mean this is becoming caramel toffee canon.
Things get a little muddy with some elements. There are those who say that the Kelvin Timeline Star Trek: The Video Game is canon, set between 09 and Into Darkness and deals with the Gorn. In Into Darkness McCoy talks to Marcus about how he had to deliver baby Gorn one time. In the game during the mission on the Gorn planet, you hear McCoy talking about how Sulu stunned a pregnant Gorn and he had to deliver babies.
Another case of muddy canon status is the game Aliens: Colonial Marines, which is a direct sequel to Aliens, and has the actors who played Bishop and Hicks reprising their roles. Not only that, the Stasis Interrupted DLC also fully addresses the issue of Hicks supposed death in Alien 3, when he's very much alive in Colonial Marines, being that when some subjects abducted by Wayland-Yutani for use in Xenomorph breeding found Hicks in his cryopod, they woke him up, and events lead to one of the subjects accidentially getting dumped into Hicks' pod just before it ejected at the beginning of Alien 3 and subsequently dying.
It is easy to say that the only thing canon is what is seen on screen and nothing else, however I believe the IP holder can declare if other things, such as books, comics, or even video games, can be considered canon. We know that many of the comics are considered canon already. The main issue is knowing which ones are and which aren't.
Things get a little muddy with some elements. There are those who say that the Kelvin Timeline Star Trek: The Video Game is canon, set between 09 and Into Darkness and deals with the Gorn. In Into Darkness McCoy talks to Marcus about how he had to deliver baby Gorn one time. In the game during the mission on the Gorn planet, you hear McCoy talking about how Sulu stunned a pregnant Gorn and he had to deliver babies.
That video game is better left ignored and anyone that says that video game is canon should be ignored. Apparently, the Gorn from the Kelvin Timeline came from another galaxy and were brought to the Milky Way Galaxy a year after Vulcan was destroyed. The Bound episode in Enterprise (episode with Orion women) mentions the Gorn Hegemony. So if that video game is canon, then the Kelvin Timeline was not created in 2233 due to the destruction of the USS Kelvin, but existed long before Nero ever arrived in the 23rd Century.
Canon is whatever the IP owner designated is canon. That can be tv shows, movies, comics, novels, sourcebooks, websites...whatever the IP owner says is canon. Things can be canonized and decanonized. Terminator: Dark Fate pretty much decanonized every other Terminator movie that came after T2. I believe the Star Trek Animated Series was decanonized and then recanonized. At one time the FASA sourcebooks were canon and then decanonized. This is why the STO dev said canon is fluid.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
The only reason there is confusion is because people make up things like 'soft canon' which is not a thing. Just look at the definition of 'quasi canon' above and note that it literally brings nothing new to the table. There is a canon the shows repeatedly refer to which are the shows and movies. And everything else is not part of that canon unless it is brought up in a show, at which point it becomes part of canon. There is no soft, quasi, pseudo or hard canon. Just canon and not canon.
If things regarding tech or world building aren't canonically adressed nothing stops you from picking your favorite version to fill in, but that doesn't mean this is becoming caramel toffee canon.
Actually "people" don't make up soft canon or quasi-canon, the IP holder does by defining a hierarchy in case of conflicts, or a way of glossing over mistakes in otherwise canon materials, or in dealing with official tie-in novels or whatever that they no longer feel like supporting. For example TAS was officially relegated to soft canon by Paramount for quite a few years. So, no it is not quite so black and white as some think. The best example of the practice was the old pre-Disney Star Wars canon scheme.
What your are referring to is actually "head canon", which is made up by individuals for personal use. There is a secondary meaning to this particular term though which refers to various interpretations of strictly canon material where there is no official clarification, but most often it is used for personal modification of the source material to include things never in that material.
Then there is "fanon" which is non-canon material which is so well liked and accepted by the fanbase that it takes on a sort of life of its own with a weight comparable to canon. It is the bulk of the third party things that actually do make it into canon later via inclusion in the shows. The Rihannsu stuff is a good example of fanon, and the Galaxy-class ship concept along with the bartender/psychologist role are both fanon things that became canonized.
As for an official website or whatever, there was one for a long time and that did not stop Paramount executives from making official statements that conflicted with the official statements on the website. Canon has always been a slippery thing.
Canon is whatever the IP owner designated is canon. That can be tv shows, movies, comics, novels, sourcebooks, websites...whatever the IP owner says is canon. Things can be canonized and decanonized. Terminator: Dark Fate pretty much decanonized every other Terminator movie that came after T2. I believe the Star Trek Animated Series was decanonized and then recanonized. At one time the FASA sourcebooks were canon and then decanonized. This is why the STO dev said canon is fluid.
Considering that time travel is one of the main parts of the Terminator movies, would previous movies be decanonized or previous timelines that no longer exist?
Canon is whatever the IP owner designated is canon. That can be tv shows, movies, comics, novels, sourcebooks, websites...whatever the IP owner says is canon. Things can be canonized and decanonized. Terminator: Dark Fate pretty much decanonized every other Terminator movie that came after T2. I believe the Star Trek Animated Series was decanonized and then recanonized. At one time the FASA sourcebooks were canon and then decanonized. This is why the STO dev said canon is fluid.
Considering that time travel is one of the main parts of the Terminator movies, would previous movies be decanonized or previous timelines that no longer exist?
That is a very interesting subject, one that the "Sara Jane Chronicles" was supposed to explore in depth before the writer's strike made them fall back into a sort of holding pattern plot wise for the most part until the show was cancelled. The general idea though was that paradoxed time acted like intersecting/branching loops and nothing was actually destroyed as such, the loops just formed short circuits along the shortest paths that isolated earlier loops from easy access.
If you were to follow the original path backwards with some way to ignore the shorts it would all be there intact (though I would imagine it would be a bit like watching the Dragon's Lair cutscene videodisk on a disk player). That spiraling is also why the tech level increases with each loop, it is a kind of momentum effect in a way that reflects the fact that a sort of phantom time is still passing in a linear fashion along the looping path.
Some people take the interview with the ST:2009 writers which mentioned that the wormhole may not have led directly to Spock and the Narada's own past but may have spiraled to a parallel one instead to mean that Star Trek's time mechanics behave the same way if not "fixed" but that is rather flimsy at best (and also not quite the same anyway even if that was the intention).
Some people take the interview with the ST:2009 writers which mentioned that the wormhole may not have led directly to Spock and the Narada's own past but may have spiraled to a parallel one instead to mean that Star Trek's time mechanics behave the same way if not "fixed" but that is rather flimsy at best (and also not quite the same anyway even if that was the intention).
The advantage of this is that pesky temporal paradoxes are not a concern. There is no need to be concerned about the people left behind in the original reality since what happens in a parallel universe stays in a parallel universe. It doesn't matter if the writers created some continuity error since the writers can do whatever they want in a parallel universe.
Canon is whatever the IP owner designated is canon. That can be tv shows, movies, comics, novels, sourcebooks, websites...whatever the IP owner says is canon. Things can be canonized and decanonized. Terminator: Dark Fate pretty much decanonized every other Terminator movie that came after T2. I believe the Star Trek Animated Series was decanonized and then recanonized. At one time the FASA sourcebooks were canon and then decanonized. This is why the STO dev said canon is fluid.
Considering that time travel is one of the main parts of the Terminator movies, would previous movies be decanonized or previous timelines that no longer exist?
An In-universe explanation could be that the timelines no longer exist. An Out-universe (our reality) explanation is that Dark Fate retconned everything else.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Canon is whatever the IP owner designated is canon. That can be tv shows, movies, comics, novels, sourcebooks, websites...whatever the IP owner says is canon. Things can be canonized and decanonized. Terminator: Dark Fate pretty much decanonized every other Terminator movie that came after T2. I believe the Star Trek Animated Series was decanonized and then recanonized. At one time the FASA sourcebooks were canon and then decanonized. This is why the STO dev said canon is fluid.
Considering that time travel is one of the main parts of the Terminator movies, would previous movies be decanonized or previous timelines that no longer exist?
An In-universe explanation could be that the timelines no longer exist. An Out-universe (our reality) explanation is that Dark Fate retconned everything else.
I expect that the official explanation is that the stuff being done in the present changed the future... and made it worse. We've seen this explanation used before in Terminator. Anything that happens in the "future" should be considered fluid. One could say that the series continually retcons itself, but there is a story reason why things change. Unlike some series it's applied rather often and consistently.
Until there is a website hosted by the Star Trek IP Owner stating what is canon, then there will always be confusion about what is canon and what is not. The only definitive rule that we can rely on is that any official Star Trek series or movie is canon.
Even if such a site existed, people will say its wrong and state what they feel is canon because personal headcanon trumps actual canon, and anyone who disagrees must be educated with extreme prejudice.
Hell... we've seen that kind of behavior on these very forums in the past regarding Discovery and the Kelvin Timeline.
Canon is whatever the IP owner designated is canon. That can be tv shows, movies, comics, novels, sourcebooks, websites...whatever the IP owner says is canon. Things can be canonized and decanonized. Terminator: Dark Fate pretty much decanonized every other Terminator movie that came after T2. I believe the Star Trek Animated Series was decanonized and then recanonized. At one time the FASA sourcebooks were canon and then decanonized. This is why the STO dev said canon is fluid.
Considering that time travel is one of the main parts of the Terminator movies, would previous movies be decanonized or previous timelines that no longer exist?
An In-universe explanation could be that the timelines no longer exist. An Out-universe (our reality) explanation is that Dark Fate retconned everything else.
I expect that the official explanation is that the stuff being done in the present changed the future... and made it worse. We've seen this explanation used before in Terminator. Anything that happens in the "future" should be considered fluid. One could say that the series continually retcons itself, but there is a story reason why things change. Unlike some series it's applied rather often and consistently.
My headcanon for the Terminator series is that an idiotic temporal tourist left some highly advanced technology in the past and Skynet was created as a result. Kyle Reese might have been personally responsible for leaving his iPhone XX behind or been part of the same tourist group and the idiot that indirectly created Skynet and just hooked up with Sarah Connor in his trip to the 80s.
Honestly the Terminator timeline is all kinds of wonky. But if you think about it... EVERY instance of time travel actually alters the timeline. Every. Single. One.
Each time, Judgement Day gets pushed back farther and farther. With Dark Fate, its altered big time as Skynet is no longer a threat, but now we have some new rogue AI taking its place. The reason the T-800 didn't erase itself when Skynet ceased to exist is probably because it was already established in that timeline. So we had a psudo Skynet vs Legion fight. And odds are there are still a couple T-800s running around wondering what to do.
In Terminator, timeline changes aren't retroactive. Grandfather paradoxes are resolved by saying that if you shoot your father then there won't be ANOTHER you. You're still there though.
It's kinda like applying layers of paint to a wall. Each timeline change covers over part of the old timeline, but it doesn't cover everything.
I had a minor discussion on something similar with Kael a couple months ago. What he told me was that CBS asked to borrow Cryptic's notes, they gave them everything they had for backstory, and they have no idea what, if anything, Michael Chabon (PIC's showrunner) actually used.
He also said that if PIC diverges from STO too drastically, they're just going to declare STO an alternate timeline.
I had a minor discussion on something similar with Kael a couple months ago. What he told me was that CBS asked to borrow Cryptic's notes, they gave them everything they had for backstory, and they have no idea what, if anything, Michael Chabon (PIC's showrunner) actually used.
He also said that if PIC diverges from STO too drastically, they're just going to declare STO an alternate timeline.
I always believed STO to exist in an alternate timeline since it first came out with any official Star Trek series set after Nemesis to be the official timeline. It would be better to preemptively set STO in an alternate timeline since even if PIC doesn't diverge from STO too drastically, there will always be another official Star Trek series that does.
> @mustrumridcully0 said:
> The only previous Oddysee-named ship we've seen in Star Trek was the Galayxy Class that got destroyed in the first Jem'Hadar encounter. Shouldn't a new Oddysee have the same registry number as that one? I have trouble believing they already had registry numbers in that number range, though it's possible we can never see the actual registry number in the episode.
I think the maintaining of registry was a rare thing. DS9’s Defiant didn’t keep the registry of the Constitution Class Defiant.
Yep, they could have just as easily given the N.C.C. 1701-A a different number. Instead they decided to keep with it in honour to the (April)/Pike/Kirk's Enterprise, and the rest was Alphanumerically history. (At least they mentioned Captain April, even if they kicked him off of the Enterprise, in Discovery).
Depends if STO keeps that the Oddy launched in 2409 or follow (presumably) the series and say it was around in 2385
Which is what I don't want to see. Star Trek has numerous alternate realities and it makes everything easier to set the novels, STO, and the shows in their own separate realities. The new Star Trek series should be free to take inspiration from other Star Trek sources, but never be forced into making STO the future of Star Trek.
I don’t see how putting the Oddy in a comic is forcing a tv show into making STO the future
It is changing the launch date of the Odyssey class in STO to 2385 instead of 2409 that is part of making STO the future. STO has a timeline from Nemesis to 2409 that establishes the setting of STO. 2399 is when the Klingon/Gorn War started and the I.K.S. Kang reveals that the Undine are controlling the Gorn Hegemony. Without the Klingon/Gorn War, there is no Klingon/Federation War. So if CBS wants to make STO part of the new Star Trek franchise, then either they have to restrict the creativity of the creators of the TV series or they have to completely change a lot of missions in STO. STO should always exist in the same state as the Kelvin movies, in its own reality.
STO's continuity has always been accepted as 'soft canon', ahead enough in time that there was some wiggle room in case there's new content made post TNG era. There was discussion about whether to alter the STO timeline with upcoming new post Nemesis content or keep it as an alternate timeline.
To be honest, STO has 'Emergency Timeline Alteration Insurance' built-in, thanks to the Butterfly episode and the rogue Krenim faction that would allow the timeline to shift the new status quo, post ST:Picard/Lower Decks.
Besides, the original STO timeline could be kept in the Ship's Library alongside the new one. As a reminder how the timeline changed, like if the Yesterday's Enterprise events was recorded by Guinan for posterity (or if Captain Janeway had remembered about being forewarned by Kes of the upcoming 'Year of Hell' two-parter).
Depends if STO keeps that the Oddy launched in 2409 or follow (presumably) the series and say it was around in 2385
Sisco's Defiant was kept in the mothballs until the Dominion War, so things can be fudged allow the Odyssey-class to be around earlier. I know it's a stretch, but why not?
If anything else, it's acknowledgement to the player who created the design. Would be nice if the bridge's placard has the name of the player as the ship's main designer.
> @captaincelestial said: > (Quote) > > Sisco's Defiant was kept in the mothballs until the Dominion War, so things can be fudged allow the Odyssey-class to be around earlier. I know it's a stretch, but why not? > > If anything else, it's acknowledgement to the player who created the design. Would be nice if the bridge's placard has the name of the player as the ship's main designer.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
153.6 meters? isn't that under half of what it's supposed to be?
Where are you getting that number from? The TOS Enterprise was officially 287meters long, while the DSC one is bloated out to 447meters. None of them were ever 153.6 meters except for maybe the never used pre-production one that had the entire teardrop the bridge instead of it being just the section under the sensor dome.
The TOS length is confirmed onscreen by these two graphics which were shown on the three-screen display unit on the conference table:
shown in high resolution and as it appeared on the show itself:
Note that the scale is in feet in the graphic instead of meters so the Enterprise comes out to 948 feet (which is approximately 287 meters), not 948 meters.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
153.6 meters? isn't that under half of what it's supposed to be?
Where are you getting that number from? The TOS Enterprise was officially 287meters long, while the DSC one is bloated out to 447meters. None of them were ever 153.6 meters except for maybe the never used pre-production one that had the entire teardrop the bridge instead of it being just the section under the sensor dome.
The TOS length is confirmed onscreen by these two graphics which were shown on the three-screen display unit on the conference table:
shown in high resolution and as it appeared on the show itself:
Note that the scale is in feet in the graphic instead of meters so the Enterprise comes out to 948 feet (which is approximately 287 meters), not 948 meters.
The image you took is almost certainly not what anyone was able to see when TOS was first released. It only become (barely) readable when they remastered TOS.
If we trust such display that weren't really expected to be visible when they made it, then we have to seriously accept that there is a giant rubberduck, a car, a plane, a giant mouse and a nomad probe aboard the Enterprise D. https://imgur.com/gallery/INOHCuX
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
We should be in the 2420s or 2430s not 2411 with how much has happened in STO.
True, in fact the TOS Constitution class came out like that, USS Constitution was the class ship but technically USS Enterprise was the first operational ship of that class. It could explain the differences in hardpoint locations between Enterprise and the "standard" design too, the track phasers that run along the ventral dome ring could have been dropped in favor of the ball turrets around the rim after Enterprise was commissioned.
This would not be the first time there was a quasi-expansion of Trek canon. At least one Voyager novel, written by one of the show's writers or something like that (I don't have time to look it up right now), was said to be canon while the show was running but apparently slipped back out later, for instance.
In fact, for a while the stuff from FASA was officially quasi-canon at about the same level as TAS (a non-binding low canon where any point would be overwritten by higher canon automatically) for a little while which is why FASA could not publish anything Trek related until until each peice of the material passed a canon compliance check at Paramount, and it too was dropped after a while, so there is a precedent for select games floating in and out of (quasi) canon.
If things regarding tech or world building aren't canonically adressed nothing stops you from picking your favorite version to fill in, but that doesn't mean this is becoming caramel toffee canon.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Even if such a site existed, people will say its wrong and state what they feel is canon because personal headcanon trumps actual canon, and anyone who disagrees must be educated with extreme prejudice.
Hell... we've seen that kind of behavior on these very forums in the past regarding Discovery and the Kelvin Timeline.
Things get a little muddy with some elements. There are those who say that the Kelvin Timeline Star Trek: The Video Game is canon, set between 09 and Into Darkness and deals with the Gorn. In Into Darkness McCoy talks to Marcus about how he had to deliver baby Gorn one time. In the game during the mission on the Gorn planet, you hear McCoy talking about how Sulu stunned a pregnant Gorn and he had to deliver babies.
Another case of muddy canon status is the game Aliens: Colonial Marines, which is a direct sequel to Aliens, and has the actors who played Bishop and Hicks reprising their roles. Not only that, the Stasis Interrupted DLC also fully addresses the issue of Hicks supposed death in Alien 3, when he's very much alive in Colonial Marines, being that when some subjects abducted by Wayland-Yutani for use in Xenomorph breeding found Hicks in his cryopod, they woke him up, and events lead to one of the subjects accidentially getting dumped into Hicks' pod just before it ejected at the beginning of Alien 3 and subsequently dying.
It is easy to say that the only thing canon is what is seen on screen and nothing else, however I believe the IP holder can declare if other things, such as books, comics, or even video games, can be considered canon. We know that many of the comics are considered canon already. The main issue is knowing which ones are and which aren't.
That video game is better left ignored and anyone that says that video game is canon should be ignored. Apparently, the Gorn from the Kelvin Timeline came from another galaxy and were brought to the Milky Way Galaxy a year after Vulcan was destroyed. The Bound episode in Enterprise (episode with Orion women) mentions the Gorn Hegemony. So if that video game is canon, then the Kelvin Timeline was not created in 2233 due to the destruction of the USS Kelvin, but existed long before Nero ever arrived in the 23rd Century.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually "people" don't make up soft canon or quasi-canon, the IP holder does by defining a hierarchy in case of conflicts, or a way of glossing over mistakes in otherwise canon materials, or in dealing with official tie-in novels or whatever that they no longer feel like supporting. For example TAS was officially relegated to soft canon by Paramount for quite a few years. So, no it is not quite so black and white as some think. The best example of the practice was the old pre-Disney Star Wars canon scheme.
What your are referring to is actually "head canon", which is made up by individuals for personal use. There is a secondary meaning to this particular term though which refers to various interpretations of strictly canon material where there is no official clarification, but most often it is used for personal modification of the source material to include things never in that material.
Then there is "fanon" which is non-canon material which is so well liked and accepted by the fanbase that it takes on a sort of life of its own with a weight comparable to canon. It is the bulk of the third party things that actually do make it into canon later via inclusion in the shows. The Rihannsu stuff is a good example of fanon, and the Galaxy-class ship concept along with the bartender/psychologist role are both fanon things that became canonized.
As for an official website or whatever, there was one for a long time and that did not stop Paramount executives from making official statements that conflicted with the official statements on the website. Canon has always been a slippery thing.
Considering that time travel is one of the main parts of the Terminator movies, would previous movies be decanonized or previous timelines that no longer exist?
That is a very interesting subject, one that the "Sara Jane Chronicles" was supposed to explore in depth before the writer's strike made them fall back into a sort of holding pattern plot wise for the most part until the show was cancelled. The general idea though was that paradoxed time acted like intersecting/branching loops and nothing was actually destroyed as such, the loops just formed short circuits along the shortest paths that isolated earlier loops from easy access.
If you were to follow the original path backwards with some way to ignore the shorts it would all be there intact (though I would imagine it would be a bit like watching the Dragon's Lair cutscene videodisk on a disk player). That spiraling is also why the tech level increases with each loop, it is a kind of momentum effect in a way that reflects the fact that a sort of phantom time is still passing in a linear fashion along the looping path.
Some people take the interview with the ST:2009 writers which mentioned that the wormhole may not have led directly to Spock and the Narada's own past but may have spiraled to a parallel one instead to mean that Star Trek's time mechanics behave the same way if not "fixed" but that is rather flimsy at best (and also not quite the same anyway even if that was the intention).
The advantage of this is that pesky temporal paradoxes are not a concern. There is no need to be concerned about the people left behind in the original reality since what happens in a parallel universe stays in a parallel universe. It doesn't matter if the writers created some continuity error since the writers can do whatever they want in a parallel universe.
An In-universe explanation could be that the timelines no longer exist. An Out-universe (our reality) explanation is that Dark Fate retconned everything else.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My character Tsin'xing
But I would say it's probably incomplete.
My character Tsin'xing
My headcanon for the Terminator series is that an idiotic temporal tourist left some highly advanced technology in the past and Skynet was created as a result. Kyle Reese might have been personally responsible for leaving his iPhone XX behind or been part of the same tourist group and the idiot that indirectly created Skynet and just hooked up with Sarah Connor in his trip to the 80s.
Each time, Judgement Day gets pushed back farther and farther. With Dark Fate, its altered big time as Skynet is no longer a threat, but now we have some new rogue AI taking its place. The reason the T-800 didn't erase itself when Skynet ceased to exist is probably because it was already established in that timeline. So we had a psudo Skynet vs Legion fight. And odds are there are still a couple T-800s running around wondering what to do.
It's kinda like applying layers of paint to a wall. Each timeline change covers over part of the old timeline, but it doesn't cover everything.
My character Tsin'xing
He also said that if PIC diverges from STO too drastically, they're just going to declare STO an alternate timeline.
...THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!
I always believed STO to exist in an alternate timeline since it first came out with any official Star Trek series set after Nemesis to be the official timeline. It would be better to preemptively set STO in an alternate timeline since even if PIC doesn't diverge from STO too drastically, there will always be another official Star Trek series that does.
Yep, they could have just as easily given the N.C.C. 1701-A a different number. Instead they decided to keep with it in honour to the (April)/Pike/Kirk's Enterprise, and the rest was Alphanumerically history. (At least they mentioned Captain April, even if they kicked him off of the Enterprise, in Discovery).
STO's continuity has always been accepted as 'soft canon', ahead enough in time that there was some wiggle room in case there's new content made post TNG era. There was discussion about whether to alter the STO timeline with upcoming new post Nemesis content or keep it as an alternate timeline.
To be honest, STO has 'Emergency Timeline Alteration Insurance' built-in, thanks to the Butterfly episode and the rogue Krenim faction that would allow the timeline to shift the new status quo, post ST:Picard/Lower Decks.
Besides, the original STO timeline could be kept in the Ship's Library alongside the new one. As a reminder how the timeline changed, like if the Yesterday's Enterprise events was recorded by Guinan for posterity (or if Captain Janeway had remembered about being forewarned by Kes of the upcoming 'Year of Hell' two-parter).
Sisco's Defiant was kept in the mothballs until the Dominion War, so things can be fudged allow the Odyssey-class to be around earlier. I know it's a stretch, but why not?
If anything else, it's acknowledgement to the player who created the design. Would be nice if the bridge's placard has the name of the player as the ship's main designer.
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> Sisco's Defiant was kept in the mothballs until the Dominion War, so things can be fudged allow the Odyssey-class to be around earlier. I know it's a stretch, but why not?
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> If anything else, it's acknowledgement to the player who created the design. Would be nice if the bridge's placard has the name of the player as the ship's main designer.
That would be a nice touch.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Where are you getting that number from? The TOS Enterprise was officially 287meters long, while the DSC one is bloated out to 447meters. None of them were ever 153.6 meters except for maybe the never used pre-production one that had the entire teardrop the bridge instead of it being just the section under the sensor dome.
The TOS length is confirmed onscreen by these two graphics which were shown on the three-screen display unit on the conference table:
shown in high resolution and as it appeared on the show itself:
Note that the scale is in feet in the graphic instead of meters so the Enterprise comes out to 948 feet (which is approximately 287 meters), not 948 meters.
can't even tell what the overall length is however, since there's a giant yellow bar over the number
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If we trust such display that weren't really expected to be visible when they made it, then we have to seriously accept that there is a giant rubberduck, a car, a plane, a giant mouse and a nomad probe aboard the Enterprise D.
https://imgur.com/gallery/INOHCuX
Ehm… I'm already seeing it on my screen now
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.