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Vizier class any good ?

I belive I have unlocked everything from mudds Sale bar the Vizier class. Is it any good,
I cant brain I have the dumb
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    I believe the console set of Regent, Vizier and Archon grants battle cloak, so that might be an interesting perk. The Archon has an Intel seat and can thus use Override Subsystem Safeties, the Vizier has a Command seat and thus can use Concentrate Firepower and serve as a torpedo boat.
    Still, neither are really special or "meta" ships.
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  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    Yeah, i have them, they are not that great, and not that bad either, their traits are interesting, and i like the console on the Vizier
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Basically, do you like the Sovereign, Enterprise E? Do you want a Sovie with Command seating? Do you like battle cloak (if you get the full Sovie set)?

    Similar ships with command seating are the T6 Excelsior, Buran, and T6 Galaxy X, all of which are much cheaper right now while the sale is running.

    If you don't like command seating, the Archon is the same ship with intel seating instead. The question is whether you want the console set at that point.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    For me one of the top 5 ships in game. Both in looks and ship build. It made a unique exotic Cruiser build with an exotic focus but zero sci bridge powers :). Mostly I used it as a Mine/Torpedo boat. It could also be built around exploding gas with the trait that makes Eject Warp Plasma AoE along with the two gas canisters that are boosted by exotic. Then add in Concentrate Firepower for a vast amount of subspatial warheads which are also boosted by exotic. Then select a few of the radiation Engineer powers that are also boosted by exotic. There was no other ship like it due to the exotic boosted gas.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    I personally feel the Vizier is pretty balanced. She won't excel, but she won't suck either as long as you put a good build on her. I have access to the full console set, but I honestly didn't use the Archon console, and I don't think I have the Regent console on right now. Got more use out of the Vizier's console though.

    You build her right, and she can dance.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    I'll say it..

    It's not a great ship.

    The Archon is superior and cheaper. If you want to fly a Sovy, fly the Archon.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    I'll say it..

    It's not a great ship.

    The Archon is superior and cheaper. If you want to fly a Sovy, fly the Archon.

    Thanks!

    I was afraid to say it. :(

    Glad to see that pottsey made a special build though. :)
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    I would get the Intel version of the ship.

    Intel is a better specialisation than command in my opinion.
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Any ship in game can be made to deal great damage or be made into a tank. it's simply a matter of what you load the ship with and how you fly it that determines if it's good or bad for what you want to do. There is no set in stone winner take all "best" ship despite what some might say. There are ships that lend more advantages and tools to certain builds than others, but that's where what is "best" ends. What works well for me a tank may not work that well for someone who is a sci captain and so on. Personally I rather enjoy the Vizier. If you want to play around with the 3 piece bonus then it can be fun, or if you like command. Command tends to have more survival type abilities than intel so it really depends on what you're wanting to do.
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    zzzspina01 wrote: »
    I belive I have unlocked everything from mudds Sale bar the Vizier class. Is it any good,

    As others have said, "is it "any good/the best"" are totally subjective. I have it, and I enjoy flying her, and she deals good damage and that's enough for me........BATTLE CLOAK AHOY!!!!!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    It's not that it can't be made to be a viable ship.. of course it can.

    The issue is that for 500 Zen less you can get the Archon which is just.. better.

    Even the battle cloak.. it's a cool idea, but you have to basically waste 3 console slots to get it, it's just not worth it.

    We all accept that any T5U or T6 ship can be made viable for all end game content. I don't believe anyone disputes that, but when you look at the Vizier and compare it to what else is available at that price point, the Vizier is a bad buy.

    It's simply not as good as other ships that are also cheaper. The battle cloak is a gimmick.. this ship is a waste of resources. The only reason this ship has any hype at all is because it was previously unavailable. Now that it's rarity has been removed it simply has nothing left to make it worth while.


    Don't buy it.
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  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,478 Arc User
    I have the Vizier, nice ship. I used her console on the fleet version and turned the ship (using the archon skin) into a twelve weapon armed monster. She does suffer in some stat areas though to get those twelve weapons (critical severity for one) but she does pump out alot of hurt on her enemies :)
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    I went and got Vizier because I wanted to complete the set and like the Sovereign design. The Fed Assault Cruiser is outclassed by several Tac Cruisers in the Fed Lineup that have released over the years. There are better Fed Cruisers now that don't fly like a whale like the older ones like Galaxy and Sovereign, and hit even harder. If not nimbler, they have setups that give a lot more flexibility and can be quite powerful.

    The LtCmdr Universal seat is Command while the regular C-Store Archon is Intel. Regardless, both are sort of "false choices" because there is no fixed SCI station. That Universal MUST be SCI, and if you go crazy into Command (Vizier) or Intel (Archon) you leave your ship build open to issues.

    The full set bonus for Battlecloak is fun, a rarity in Fed ships, but you're giving up 3 console slots for it and several very questionable use console abilities. But there is also the fact that Cloaks in PVE isn't really important for most of the game.

    The trait is geared towards Eject Warp Plasma use.

    The only real benefit is having the canon Sovereign-class skin in Tier 6 form. Even then, you can save yourself 500 Zen and get the regular Intel / Archon for 3000 instead of the 3500 Mudd Market Command / Vizier.

    The T6 Gagarin for example is every bit superior to the T6 Sovereigns. Hits hard, doesn't maneuver like a Fed Cruiser... But it doesn't have the Sovereign look to it.

    Same thing with the T6 Defiant. There are A LOT of better T6 Fed Escorts now that are superior to Defiant. But none of those have the classic Defiant look.
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  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    scrapping my pink rocks as i can to get zenny for it. :)
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  • zzzspina01zzzspina01 Member Posts: 310 Arc User
    thanks for all the feed back.
    I cant brain I have the dumb
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    “The LtCmdr Universal seat is Command while the regular C-Store Archon is Intel. Regardless, both are sort of "false choices" because there is no fixed SCI station. That Universal MUST be SCI, and if you go crazy into Command (Vizier) or Intel (Archon) you leave your ship build open to issues.”
    It really does not MUST have to be Sci. One of the reasons I really like the ship is I can run it without Sci making semi unique builds. It never ran into problems.

    The T6 Gagarin is not every bit superior. It might be for some builds but its not flat out 100% superior. For my builds I would pick the Vizier Command Assault Cruiser over any other Assault cruiser or the Gagarin. Before I swapped to the 5 rear Vorgon cruiser the Vizier was my go to PvP ship due to the Eject Plasma combos.

    As a side note the Vizier trait worked with pets that eject plasma like Wingman.

  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    It's simply not as good as other ships that are also cheaper. The battle cloak is a gimmick.. this ship is a waste of resources. The only reason this ship has any hype at all is because it was previously unavailable. Now that it's rarity has been removed it simply has nothing left to make it worth while.

    This is where we get into the territory of what is "best" for one may not be what is "best" for another. For me it gives me command powers which as a tank gives me access to damage reducing and survival powers that intel simply doesn't have. So for me as a tank I actually prefer the Vizier to the Archon in that respect. In your case I'm assuming you build more for pure damage based on your statements so it makes sense you would prefer the Archon to the Vizier since intel typically comes with more damage oriented powers. What you may consider a waste of resources on the damage side of things I may consider a godsend for survival. Ultimately it's up to the OP since they're the one that would have to fly the thing.
    The LtCmdr Universal seat is Command while the regular C-Store Archon is Intel. Regardless, both are sort of "false choices" because there is no fixed SCI station. That Universal MUST be SCI, and if you go crazy into Command (Vizier) or Intel (Archon) you leave your ship build open to issues.

    You don't absolutely have to run science in the universal seat but I do agree it makes for an unbalanced build if you don't. It leaves you without a way to purge plasma fires and subnucleonic debuffs which can add up. If you get hit with a subnucleonic beam, which many a foe likes to do, then having a way to purge that is nigh mandatory imo.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    It's simply not as good as other ships that are also cheaper. The battle cloak is a gimmick.. this ship is a waste of resources. The only reason this ship has any hype at all is because it was previously unavailable. Now that it's rarity has been removed it simply has nothing left to make it worth while.

    This is where we get into the territory of what is "best" for one may not be what is "best" for another. For me it gives me command powers which as a tank gives me access to damage reducing and survival powers that intel simply doesn't have. So for me as a tank I actually prefer the Vizier to the Archon in that respect. In your case I'm assuming you build more for pure damage based on your statements so it makes sense you would prefer the Archon to the Vizier since intel typically comes with more damage oriented powers. What you may consider a waste of resources on the damage side of things I may consider a godsend for survival. Ultimately it's up to the OP since they're the one that would have to fly the thing.

    Yea if u think that ship to be any good for tanking then big congratulations for the lucrative purchase to you. :)

    Unlike DMG dealing it is just too bad that tanking is an activity which is not required for any content we face or we would certainly have a larger player group pursuing it. This activity is sadly not even rewarding in any way.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    It's simply not as good as other ships that are also cheaper. The battle cloak is a gimmick.. this ship is a waste of resources. The only reason this ship has any hype at all is because it was previously unavailable. Now that it's rarity has been removed it simply has nothing left to make it worth while.

    This is where we get into the territory of what is "best" for one may not be what is "best" for another. For me it gives me command powers which as a tank gives me access to damage reducing and survival powers that intel simply doesn't have. So for me as a tank I actually prefer the Vizier to the Archon in that respect. In your case I'm assuming you build more for pure damage based on your statements so it makes sense you would prefer the Archon to the Vizier since intel typically comes with more damage oriented powers. What you may consider a waste of resources on the damage side of things I may consider a godsend for survival. Ultimately it's up to the OP since they're the one that would have to fly the thing.
    The LtCmdr Universal seat is Command while the regular C-Store Archon is Intel. Regardless, both are sort of "false choices" because there is no fixed SCI station. That Universal MUST be SCI, and if you go crazy into Command (Vizier) or Intel (Archon) you leave your ship build open to issues.

    You don't absolutely have to run science in the universal seat but I do agree it makes for an unbalanced build if you don't. It leaves you without a way to purge plasma fires and subnucleonic debuffs which can add up. If you get hit with a subnucleonic beam, which many a foe likes to do, then having a way to purge that is nigh mandatory imo.
    With the right build its possible to cleanse your ship via Engineering powers like Engineering Team and/or Emergency Power to X and other methods. Running zero sci slots doesn’t have to make your build unbalanced.

    I had no problem with plasma fires or subnucleonic debuffs with zero sci slots. I used and still do today hull regeneration as my main form of tank and healing instead of bridge powers. This effectively gives me a 100% up time Hazard Emitter style heal even if hit by subnucleonic. Although hull regeneration doesn't clear plasma fires the consent healing was an equal counter.


  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Tanking is underrated because most people don't value anything but high DPS, yet that tank keeps the DPS from running into their 15s cooldown on all powers.

    While the best of the best don't typically run into that problem, most people who play this game aren't that. They can mimic the builds that do great DPS but may not have what they need to handle the survivability portion.

    Also while it may not be the best set for DPS, the Discovery rep set does transfer some of that high hull HP into damage output, and one of the rep traits gives you some very good crit chance % for having a high hull HP. Hull regen is a very excellent way of healing if you build for it, which of course gets much better the more hull you have.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    Tanking is underrated because most people don't value anything but high DPS, yet that tank keeps the DPS from running into their 15s cooldown on all powers.

    While the best of the best don't typically run into that problem, most people who play this game aren't that. They can mimic the builds that do great DPS but may not have what they need to handle the survivability portion.

    Also while it may not be the best set for DPS, the Discovery rep set does transfer some of that high hull HP into damage output, and one of the rep traits gives you some very good crit chance % for having a high hull HP. Hull regen is a very excellent way of healing if you build for it, which of course gets much better the more hull you have.

    Sadly this game has too many “just deal DMG well and heal yourself that way better that you otherwise would” elements available than to make survivability through direct gear (and boff powers) even worth considering:

    - DPRM (!)
    - AP Beta Doff
    - Nakuhl Doff
    - Protomatter Colony Tac consoles (!!)
    - more and more traits like the Energy Referequencer (!)

    I have been tanking passionately in PvE for over 3 years now with various digress of success. If you do so too you know that tanking does not mean turtle-ing. Survivability as a tank is something you even only take into consideration after you get your DMG output and aggro generation straight. Such stuff happens in a game full of broken stuff.

    Even as a tank that version of the assault cruiser does not break any ground. Anybody who checks his resources in consideration of getting this cruiser to play as “tank” should be close to Discoprise-level resources. That ship on the other hand happens to be a state of the bad-TRIBBLE-art PvE tank (full MW ship, 2 hangers).

    Look, I do not want to discourage anybody who fell in love with this ship from getting it but claiming the command seat version of that ship to be a potent tank is as misleading as claiming the intel version to be a DPS machine.

    I won’t certainly have all out of the box builds ideas players like Pottsey are good at in mind but for mainstream stuff, let it be DPSing or TANKing , this ship is not anything special and making anybody think it is is wrong.

    Considering its price that ship is an impertinence and TERIBAD in STO! ;)
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    Tanking is underrated because most people don't value anything but high DPS, yet that tank keeps the DPS from running into their 15s cooldown on all powers.

    While the best of the best don't typically run into that problem, most people who play this game aren't that. They can mimic the builds that do great DPS but may not have what they need to handle the survivability portion.

    Also while it may not be the best set for DPS, the Discovery rep set does transfer some of that high hull HP into damage output, and one of the rep traits gives you some very good crit chance % for having a high hull HP. Hull regen is a very excellent way of healing if you build for it, which of course gets much better the more hull you have.

    Sadly this game has too many “just deal DMG well and heal yourself that way better that you otherwise would” elements available than to make survivability through direct gear (and boff powers) even worth considering:

    - DPRM
    - AP Beta Doff
    - Nakuhl Doff
    - Protomatter Colony Tac consoles

    I have no idea what any of those are or where to get them, personally, so I doubt those are real common among the greater playerbase.

    Now I'm not arguing against your point, that it can be easy to stay alive, but most people don't have that ability. I blow up on some builds, and far more often I'm in an STF where someone else blows up. Those situations, when its not torpedo cheese spread, could have benefited from a tank drawing aggro. Most people just aren't that good at the game or don't have the build to handle the aggro they get.

    Also while you're right that a tank definitely needs to work on DPS generation, it isn't that difficult to get DPS high enough to turn on threatening stance and hold aggro from most people. The people you can't hold aggro from don't need tanks.

    Edit: Also, yes, the Vizier at its 3500 price is definitely overpriced.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    I have no idea what any of those are or where to get them, personally, so I doubt those are real common among the greater playerbase.

    But if someone wants that information, it's readily available.

    His point is valid, there are items in the game that can already take high damage ships and just.. poof.. turn them into tanks. Because of that, some people shy away from buying 'tanking' ships because they can just take some high DPS ships, slap a console or two and maybe a trait on it and boom.. it's now tough as nails.

    'Tank oriented' ships are a dying breed in STO, releasing one and actually charging more for it.. is a bit baffling to me.

    Obviously, some people like it, and that's great. It's just not a ship I personally would buy.
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  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,205 Arc User
    I have no idea what any of those are or where to get them, personally, so I doubt those are real common among the greater playerbase.

    But if someone wants that information, it's readily available.

    His point is valid, there are items in the game that can already take high damage ships and just.. poof.. turn them into tanks. Because of that, some people shy away from buying 'tanking' ships because they can just take some high DPS ships, slap a console or two and maybe a trait on it and boom.. it's now tough as nails.

    'Tank oriented' ships are a dying breed in STO, releasing one and actually charging more for it.. is a bit baffling to me.

    Obviously, some people like it, and that's great. It's just not a ship I personally would buy.

    A good example of this is the honored dead on fed side. It costs next to nothing and slotting it immediately makes your ship ridiculously tanky for almost no investment.
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  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    I got it from the original promotion, if you want the T6 Sovereign with command instead of intel and want to complete the console set then I guess it's good.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    As much as I love the Sovereign I feel that the T6 Endeavor Oddyssy has a better looking setup, it's mostly the same as Vizier except its lieutenant seat is sci instead of engi and its ensign seat is universal instead of tactical, this makes it much more flexible imho.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    The VIzier is a command spec ship. Which means it's spec is borderline useless. As others have said, the Archon is better since it has intel. I'm praying for a miracle worker version in the future. Also a galaxy class miracle worker ship.

    The only real reason to buy the Vizier is if for some reason you want the useless console set bonus or if you really really like the vizier skin.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    . Also a galaxy class miracle worker ship.
    I'd pay a fortune for that. <3:p

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    westx211 wrote: »
    I have no idea what any of those are or where to get them, personally, so I doubt those are real common among the greater playerbase.

    But if someone wants that information, it's readily available.

    His point is valid, there are items in the game that can already take high damage ships and just.. poof.. turn them into tanks. Because of that, some people shy away from buying 'tanking' ships because they can just take some high DPS ships, slap a console or two and maybe a trait on it and boom.. it's now tough as nails.

    'Tank oriented' ships are a dying breed in STO, releasing one and actually charging more for it.. is a bit baffling to me.

    Obviously, some people like it, and that's great. It's just not a ship I personally would buy.

    A good example of this is the honored dead on fed side. It costs next to nothing and slotting it immediately makes your ship ridiculously tanky for almost no investment.

    Supergood trait, yea. I cannot stress enough the usefulness of Energy Refrequencer from reputation as well. :)
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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