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A Playable Changeling wouldn't really be the end of the world.

Of course, if a Changeling character could become anything or anyone, then that would be out-of-line...but a playable Changeling would really only have the few abilities that we've seen in the game:

Snagging/strangling people with a tentacle.
Doing the spin/knock thing as a blob.
And possibly going into a puddle.

To be honest, those abilities could just as soon be kit modules and something that really should have been included in the Gamma expansion.
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Comments

  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > Playable changelings makes as much sense playable Vorta, which is to say, not at all. Changeling do not fight battles, that is what the Jem'Hadar are for.

    Do they even have the jem'hadar anymore after home? The founders were revealed to be massive scumbags and lost their "god" status in from of the jem'hadar.

    You could be a young changeling sent out to explore like Odo was. They have to fight and fend for themselves. The dominion should now be vastly different with it's new management than it was during "that's the order of things" days.
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,267 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    Playable changelings makes as much sense playable Vorta, which is to say, not at all. Changeling do not fight battles, that is what the Jem'Hadar are for.

    I would not say a Starfleet officer are 'built' for battles, its just one aspect of their responsibility (along with diplomacy ect.) It's also clear that Changlings can (and do) fight battles when necessary (as depicted in the game).

    Changlings have also been depicted commanding ships and fleets, not much differently to Starfleet officers.
  • edwardhamham#8075 edwardhamham Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    equinox976 wrote: »
    Playable changelings makes as much sense playable Vorta, which is to say, not at all. Changeling do not fight battles, that is what the Jem'Hadar are for.

    Changlings have also been depicted commanding ships and fleets, not much differently to Starfleet officers.

    Sometimes, but normally it's the vorta who command the jem'hadar at the will of the changelings, not the changelings giving them orders directly.
    madmopar wrote: »
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > Do they even have the jem'hadar anymore after home? The founders were revealed to be massive scumbags and lost their "god" status in from of the jem'hadar.
    Considering the events I believe so (they did join the Alliance after Home) although they were cured of their Ketracel While addiction giving them freedom, they're still used as the warriors of The Dominion.
    Playable changelings makes as much sense playable Vorta, which is to say, not at all. Changeling do not fight battles, that is what the Jem'Hadar are for.

    Agreed. Just like how it wouldn't make any sense to play as President Okeg.

  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > (Quote)
    > Uhh, no they didn't. Not sure where you even got this notion.
    > (Quote)
    > There is no new management though. The only changeling who got removed was the Female Changeling, and while she was responsible for the Hur'q, she wasn't the only one in charge making every decision.
    >

    If you play the gamma campaign as a jem'hadar you will see what I mean. I dont want to spoil it but dukan rex shares his revelations with you.

    Odo is pretty much the changeling running things now while everyone else just lays in the puddle planet.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    madmopar wrote: »
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > (Quote)
    > Uhh, no they didn't. Not sure where you even got this notion.
    > (Quote)
    > There is no new management though. The only changeling who got removed was the Female Changeling, and while she was responsible for the Hur'q, she wasn't the only one in charge making every decision.
    >

    If you play the gamma campaign as a jem'hadar you will see what I mean. I dont want to spoil it but dukan rex shares his revelations with you.

    Odo is pretty much the changeling running things now while everyone else just lays in the puddle planet.

    Except Odo himself says that the other Changelings will take some convincing, and it's not clear at all the Odo runs anything apart from the Vanguard.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • edxelledxell Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    We already sort of have playable Changelings. If you visit a tailor you can completely change your character's entire appearance including face and height at any time.

    Playable Changelings make as much lore sense as my Fed flying an Iconian Dreadnought, which is to say, none but it might be fun so why not do it anyway.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Honestly... if you want a shapeshifter... play an Alien and set up different appearance outfits.

    I don't get the appeal of a playable Changeling.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Honestly... if you want a shapeshifter... play an Alien and set up different appearance outfits.

    I don't get the appeal of a playable Changeling.

    Nor do I.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    It's not gonna happen. As others said, roll an alien. You can headcanon your way through the game as a changeling spy.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    I figure if they did they'd give them a special limited ability to change into another creature for a very short time.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Well, maybe not the end of the world, but, 'It would be very bad. Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.'

    That bad. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Honestly... if you want a shapeshifter... play an Alien and set up different appearance outfits.

    I don't get the appeal of a playable Changeling.

    A different ability set, with all the shape changing in combat? Roleplaying?

    But I think any player-facing implementation is likely going to be disappointing. The different ability set alone is not really compatible with STO mechanics, where you equip kit modules to gain powers and weapons to have something to shoot or stab with it. Maybe it could work like the mission where we control the Tzenkethi officer. I believe the biggest problem that was noticed there that people didn't want to play a bad guy - but you don't have to use the mechanic to play bad guys. The Changling could be one of the good ones. Maybe one of the 100s that is still missing, or Odo himself. But first, Cryptic would need a story where that makes sense, and currently we're dealing with completely unrelated stuff.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    Of course, if a Changeling character could become anything or anyone, then that would be out-of-line...but a playable Changeling would really only have the few abilities that we've seen in the game:

    Snagging/strangling people with a tentacle.
    Doing the spin/knock thing as a blob.
    And possibly going into a puddle.

    To be honest, those abilities could just as soon be kit modules and something that really should have been included in the Gamma expansion.
    There is no way giving one race extra combat abilities with no tradeoff could be fair to everyone else.

    But indeed they could be made as kit modules available for everyone and then "changeling" would be just the Dominion version of custom alien.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    kayajay wrote: »
    Of course, if a Changeling character could become anything or anyone, then that would be out-of-line...but a playable Changeling would really only have the few abilities that we've seen in the game:

    Aside from any possible gameplay-related issues/non-issues…

    The founders are dwelling in one place only and we are kinda led to believe that there aren't all that many of them.

    A few were sent out like Odo, and on rare occasion they also travel on ships, but we've only seen one member of the great link leaving on a more regular basis to serve as a relay between Vorta and great link. It looks like 99% of their population *really* prefers to stay together with the others in liquid form - there is no need for them to take solid form and leave their world. And any kind of outsider-contact is what they created the vorta for. The founders don't really care about "solids".

  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Would it be the end of the world...no.

    Is it gonna happen? No.

    'Wouldn't be the end of the world' has the same weight of an excuse such as 'but it's 2019', a straw-man argument.

    At the end of the day OP, you diminish the game and the story if you can play as the 'big bad'. Somethings just should not be touched.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    > @leemwatson said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > 'Wouldn't be the end of the world' has the same weight of an excuse such as 'but it's 2019', a straw-man argument.
    >
    > At the end of the day OP, you diminish the game and the story if you can play as the 'big bad'. Somethings just should not be touched.

    Play as the big bad? We can play as borg, romulans, jem'hadar, klingons,gorn,nausicans, letheans, cardassians, Orions...ect. All were "big bads".
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    madmopar wrote: »
    > @leemwatson said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > 'Wouldn't be the end of the world' has the same weight of an excuse such as 'but it's 2019', a straw-man argument.
    >
    > At the end of the day OP, you diminish the game and the story if you can play as the 'big bad'. Somethings just should not be touched.

    Play as the big bad? We can play as borg, romulans, jem'hadar, klingons,gorn,nausicans, letheans, cardassians, Orions...ect. All were "big bads".

    The founders don't have quite the numbers of any of the races you mention. They're rare, and extremely isolationistic, xenophobe introverts. If they want to establish contact or relay Information or get something done, they will just send a vorta with a cohort of jem'hadar or they will order one of their numerous vassal-races to do something.

    It's incredibly rare for a founder to actually leave the link and pretty much unheard of to willingly show itself to outsiders.

    The only exception being their turncoats in the key-positions of other interstellar powers and probably their vassals, but even those are few in numbers.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Yeah it's more likely they'll let us play Liberated Borg Vorta. :D

    Like this:
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > (Quote)
    > We can play as
    > -Liberated Borg, an entirely separate group from the Borg Collective
    > -Romulan Republic Romulans, an entirely separate group from the Imperial Romulans and Tal Shiar
    >
    > As for the rest, none of them were ever the big bad.

    Ok then by your own logic changelings can be perfectly fine as playable.

    Good guy changelings, an entirely separate group from the founder changelings.

    There you go.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    madmopar wrote: »
    Good guy changelings, an entirely separate group from the founder changelings.

    There you go.

    DS9 kinda made it look like Odo was pretty much a one-in-a-million-example of what you describe. We meet only two others of the changelings that were sent out by the founders. One of them died due to the collapsing morphogenic structure, and the other one was Laas. We kinda know how Laas felt about solids, don't we. Laas pretty much made the same experiences that lead the founders to become total isolationist to begin with. Solids = danger to founders because shapeshifting, sapient pepsimen make humanoids uncomfy and paranoid.

    As long as a population of solids could even potentially pose a threat to them, the founders are fine with anything ranging from flat-out genocide to using biogenic weapons that cause debilitating terminal illness to entire civilizations.
  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    > @redeyedraven said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > DS9 kinda made it look like Odo was pretty much a one-in-a-million-example of what you describe. We meet only two others of the changelings that were sent out by the founders. One of them died due to the collapsing morphogenic structure, and the other one was Laas. We kinda know how Laas felt about solids, don't we. Laas pretty much made the same experiences that lead the founders to become total isolationist to begin with. Solids = danger to founders because shapeshifting, sapient pepsimen make humanoids uncomfy and paranoid.

    A lot of similar things can be said about romulans as well. They were extremely xenophobic and reclusive. Well they were until the devs made a group who wasn't and they could do the same with founders.

    In this game you can have a pakled captain flying a borged out voth ship crewed by romulans,jemhadar and a potatoe. Vanguard changelings arent any more immersion breaking.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    madmopar wrote: »
    In this game you can have a pakled captain flying a borged out voth ship crewed by romulans,jemhadar and a potatoe. Vanguard changelings arent any more immersion breaking.

    Founder-type changelings are still a lot more rare than any of those.

    And Vanguard Jemmies are not stretching anything, because they're literally just modified Jem'Hadar. Disposable tubemen that can be bred in huge numbers in a matter of months. The Vanguard-aspect literally means nothing beside a Focus on expeditionary missions.

    STO is generally pretty much the opposite of immersive btw, because it's a themepark-MMO.
  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    > @redeyedraven said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > Founder-type changelings are still a lot more rare than any of those.
    >
    > And Vanguard Jemmies are not stretching anything, because they're literally just modified Jem'Hadar. Disposable tubemen that can be bred in huge numbers in a matter of months. The Vanguard-aspect literally means nothing beside a Focus on expeditionary missions.
    >
    > STO is generally pretty much the opposite of immersive btw, because it's a themepark-MMO.

    Theres a literal ocean of changelings.

    Even so like you said it's a theme park mmo so no need to worry about rarity.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,297 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    madmopar wrote: »
    Theres a literal ocean of changelings.

    Even so like you said it's a theme park mmo so no need to worry about rarity.

    An ocean of changelings still doesn't amount to populations of entire planets that might be even larger than Empersa.

    Also, being a themepark-MMO just means the game is overall less immersive (like a ship exploding just to have a respawn-button appear seconds later or everybody being a fleet-admiral doing captain's duties). It doesn't mean you disregard everything established in the IP.
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