"We are looking into the data for making lock box and phoenix stuff account wide, but..."

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  • leemwatson
    leemwatson Member Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »

    By making them Account-wide they are NOT making them less rare or more ubiquitous because you can only be logged in to an Account ONE Character at a time. At any given moment you will not be seeing more of them flying around.


    Although that sounds logical, at first glance, it's probably not entirey accurate. Having the same lockbox ship on multiple toons enhances not the total number of those ships, but the chance of there being one out there, period. So, if you have 8 toons, and only 1 of them has the lockbox ship, you could only ever be seen flying it when you were on that specific toon. And with the change, you could the be seen flying one on any of those 8 toons.

    I think people might be merging two different ideas together here and kind of muddying the waters a bit. There are two ways that they could make a Lock Box ships 'account wide.'

    Method 1: The ship is claimed by the character that opens the box just like now. That ship and it's console/gear are bound to that character. The character however, has the option to unequip those items, re-box the ship and gear and transfer the account bound box to an alternate character. This means that only one character at a time could have the ship and it's related gear. Sending those items to an alt means that the primary character loses all access. This would require some special method to deal with how the star ship trait would be handled as those are per character unlocks. Same with the Admiralty Card.

    Method 2: The ship works like a C-Store item and all of the characters on the account can now freely claim and use that ship and it's associated gear and traits. I find this option highly unlikely as this would, in my opinion, greatly reduce demand for lock box/R&D ships, especially ones like the TOS Dreadnought that is highly prized for it's powerful console, or the Mirror Escort Carrier for it's trait.

    I believe that the method being considered is Option 1. I actually think this would be a fair way to handle things, it's still not 'account wide' so if you wanted 2 of your characters to have Discovery Enterprises for example.. you would still need to get 2 ships. It would however, prevent you from having that ship locked to that character and give you the option to change your mind down the road.

    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.


    Very good points! I hadn't considered that; but, knowing Cryptic, realistically, Option 1, indeed, seems the most likely.

    IIRC Kael mentioned the first option on numerous livestreams as the option they were/had looked at. I wouldn't think it would be necessary and would be quite harsh to 'block' access to the Starship Trait and Admiralty Card when reboxing though.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,187 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »

    By making them Account-wide they are NOT making them less rare or more ubiquitous because you can only be logged in to an Account ONE Character at a time. At any given moment you will not be seeing more of them flying around.


    Although that sounds logical, at first glance, it's probably not entirey accurate. Having the same lockbox ship on multiple toons enhances not the total number of those ships, but the chance of there being one out there, period. So, if you have 8 toons, and only 1 of them has the lockbox ship, you could only ever be seen flying it when you were on that specific toon. And with the change, you could the be seen flying one on any of those 8 toons.

    I think people might be merging two different ideas together here and kind of muddying the waters a bit. There are two ways that they could make a Lock Box ships 'account wide.'

    Method 1: The ship is claimed by the character that opens the box just like now. That ship and it's console/gear are bound to that character. The character however, has the option to unequip those items, re-box the ship and gear and transfer the account bound box to an alternate character. This means that only one character at a time could have the ship and it's related gear. Sending those items to an alt means that the primary character loses all access. This would require some special method to deal with how the star ship trait would be handled as those are per character unlocks. Same with the Admiralty Card.

    Method 2: The ship works like a C-Store item and all of the characters on the account can now freely claim and use that ship and it's associated gear and traits. I find this option highly unlikely as this would, in my opinion, greatly reduce demand for lock box/R&D ships, especially ones like the TOS Dreadnought that is highly prized for it's powerful console, or the Mirror Escort Carrier for it's trait.

    I believe that the method being considered is Option 1. I actually think this would be a fair way to handle things, it's still not 'account wide' so if you wanted 2 of your characters to have Discovery Enterprises for example.. you would still need to get 2 ships. It would however, prevent you from having that ship locked to that character and give you the option to change your mind down the road.

    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.


    Very good points! I hadn't considered that; but, knowing Cryptic, realistically, Option 1, indeed, seems the most likely.

    IIRC Kael mentioned the first option on numerous livestreams as the option they were/had looked at. I wouldn't think it would be necessary and would be quite harsh to 'block' access to the Starship Trait and Admiralty Card when reboxing though.

    Re-locking the trait and card would probably involve a lot more code changes than requiring the ship to be re-leveled by each character on the account in order to get them unlocked. Since some ships are more valuable due to their consoles which would get moved and others from their trait which might not it would cause a churn in the marketplace, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
  • mustrumridcully0
    mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »

    Small correction. With the proper steps taken anyone who wants the T6 Connie (Temporal Light Cruiser), or any of the other Promo ships, and can do it for as little as 0 real money spent.
    Anyone (or everyone) could have one, possibly. But realistically, it simply won't happen, and a Tier 6 Connie will be seen less often - hence "rarer" - than ships attainable via a C-Store purchase. The time, money or effortrequired to acquire a promo or lockbox ship is just that much higher than the alternatives.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • mustrumridcully0
    mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »

    By making them Account-wide they are NOT making them less rare or more ubiquitous because you can only be logged in to an Account ONE Character at a time. At any given moment you will not be seeing more of them flying around.


    Although that sounds logical, at first glance, it's probably not entirey accurate. Having the same lockbox ship on multiple toons enhances not the total number of those ships, but the chance of there being one out there, period. So, if you have 8 toons, and only 1 of them has the lockbox ship, you could only ever be seen flying it when you were on that specific toon. And with the change, you could the be seen flying one on any of those 8 toons.

    I think people might be merging two different ideas together here and kind of muddying the waters a bit. There are two ways that they could make a Lock Box ships 'account wide.'

    Method 1: The ship is claimed by the character that opens the box just like now. That ship and it's console/gear are bound to that character. The character however, has the option to unequip those items, re-box the ship and gear and transfer the account bound box to an alternate character. This means that only one character at a time could have the ship and it's related gear. Sending those items to an alt means that the primary character loses all access. This would require some special method to deal with how the star ship trait would be handled as those are per character unlocks. Same with the Admiralty Card.

    Method 2: The ship works like a C-Store item and all of the characters on the account can now freely claim and use that ship and it's associated gear and traits. I find this option highly unlikely as this would, in my opinion, greatly reduce demand for lock box/R&D ships, especially ones like the TOS Dreadnought that is highly prized for it's powerful console, or the Mirror Escort Carrier for it's trait.

    I believe that the method being considered is Option 1. I actually think this would be a fair way to handle things, it's still not 'account wide' so if you wanted 2 of your characters to have Discovery Enterprises for example.. you would still need to get 2 ships. It would however, prevent you from having that ship locked to that character and give you the option to change your mind down the road.

    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.

    I think Option 1 is extremely unlikely, because it requires a lot of complicated mechanical implementation details that requires people to jump through hoops so they can use the same ship on multiple characters. It's neither user-friendly nor developer-friendly, which means it's likely a dead end.

    I think a variant of Option 2 is actually more likely. For example, if you acquire a Cardassian ship, you also unlock Spiral-Wave Disruptors in the Dilithium Store. These Spiral-Wave Disruptors actually cost a ton of Dilithium, however.

    They could do the same with Lockbox/Promo/Lobi ships - you get an account unlock to buy a ship from the Dilithium Store. Maybe the cost will be set to 0, maybe it will be set to 5 Fleet Modules and 200,000 Dilithium, or to 100 Uncommon Phoenix Tokens, or 200 Lobi or a gazillion Latinum and the soul of your firstborn.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • mustrumridcully0
    mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @mustrumridcully0 said:
    > (Quote)
    > Anyone (or everyone) could have one, possibly. But realistically, it simply won't happen, and a Tier 6 Connie will be seen less often - hence "rarer" - than ships attainable via a C-Store purchase. The time, money or effort required to acquire a promo or lockbox ship is just that much higher than the alternatives.

    No it isn't. It takes nothing but time. I can get a Promo ship eavery month for no real money at all and I'm a low end EC maker, the high end guys can do it in days.
    So when I say "The time, money or effort required to acquire a promo or lockbox ship is just that much higher than the alternatives.e" you say "no, all it requires is time", what does the No refer to?
    I said it requires time. Or Effort. Or Money. And it's too much for many people. If you don't have the time, you won't be making it that fast and it's far simpler ot just buy a C-Store ship you like, because that is something you can do the moment you have the spare money, no extra in-game effort required.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.
    If their number crunching tells them very few people actually use multiples of a specific LB ship, then maybe they'll make them simple account unlocks.
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  • warpangel
    warpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.
    If their number crunching tells them very few people actually use multiples of a specific LB ship, then maybe they'll make them simple account unlocks.
    The math isn't just about multiple copies of the same ship, though. It's also different ships. How likely is a player who already has an account unlock ship to simply claim that on all toons instead of buying others?
  • kelador
    kelador Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.
    If their number crunching tells them very few people actually use multiples of a specific LB ship, then maybe they'll make them simple account unlocks.
    The math isn't just about multiple copies of the same ship, though. It's also different ships. How likely is a player who already has an account unlock ship to simply claim that on all toons instead of buying others?

    Its not as simple as that either what they will be looking at is the sale of keys and the patterns for example there will be customers who buy keys to sell on the Exchange to fund buying a ship, there will be customers who do that and buy the same ship for mulitple characters, there will be customers who buy keys and just open up lockboxes until they get what they want again there might be customers who do this for 10 copies of a ship one for each of there alst Cryptic will be look at these sort of things and see what is bringing in the most revenue.

    I'm over simplify this alot as they will also look into lots of different type of spending patterns not just based around X item things like spending frequency will be the most important thing how often does customer A spend $ and why? after they have looked into lots of things if they find more people spend money on a regular basis on account based items than 1 off character bound items from lockboxes/lobi and if that is the larger part of STO's income then encouraging that type of spending would be for the best and by making Lobi items and lockbox items account bound they would instantly make keys more appealing to that group of customers and sales would go up.

    End of the day all we can do is speculate as we dont know how well STO does in sales year on year we dont know if there has been a decline in sales that warrant them changing things.
  • thegrandnagus1
    thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,102 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.
    If their number crunching tells them very few people actually use multiples of a specific LB ship, then maybe they'll make them simple account unlocks.

    The math isn't just about multiple copies of the same ship, though. It's also different ships. How likely is a player who already has an account unlock ship to simply claim that on all toons instead of buying others?

    There is a very, very, very simple answer to that question. Ready? Because...they want them. That's literally it. You see, like many people I have a "main". Yes, I have lots of alts; and some I like more than others. But I still have what I consider my "main" character. Now, according to your logic, if a character already has a lockbox ship, they would have no reason to buy more on that same character, right? Wrong. My "main" has a TOS connie, a Kelvin connie, and Disco connie to name just a few(seriously, that character has many billions of credits worth of ships). Why do I have those ships on a single character? Because...I wanted them. So no, just because I already had lockbox ships on a specific character did not stop me from buying more on that same character.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • warpangel
    warpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.
    If their number crunching tells them very few people actually use multiples of a specific LB ship, then maybe they'll make them simple account unlocks.

    The math isn't just about multiple copies of the same ship, though. It's also different ships. How likely is a player who already has an account unlock ship to simply claim that on all toons instead of buying others?

    There is a very, very, very simple answer to that question. Ready? Because...they want them. That's literally it. You see, like many people I have a "main". Yes, I have lots of alts; and some I like more than others. But I still have what I consider my "main" character. Now, according to your logic, if a character already has a lockbox ship, they would have no reason to buy more on that same character, right? Wrong. My "main" has a TOS connie, a Kelvin connie, and Disco connie to name just a few(seriously, that character has many billions of credits worth of ships). Why do I have those ships on a single character? Because...I wanted them. So no, just because I already had lockbox ships on a specific character did not stop me from buying more on that same character.
    I collect ships, too. So what? The world doesn't run on "me, me, me." Cryptic will be looking at the player population in general. I couldn't even begin to guess what their stats would say on the matter, but a single player is a drop in the ocean.
  • strychnyne1
    strychnyne1 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%. I've been tying since it's release. I am NOT a whale and I've never put myself out because of a game.

    I just feel that the lockbox/lootbox system is broken, especially when the odds are stacked so highly against you. I don't want to whine and I know that the game has to make money so it can stay online, but I'm just tired of trying over, and over, and over, and over, ad-nauseum, only to be met with disappointment.

    The lockbox system is a joke and that joke isn't funny anymore.
  • kelador
    kelador Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%. I've been tying since it's release. I am NOT a whale and I've never put myself out because of a game.

    I just feel that the lockbox/lootbox system is broken, especially when the odds are stacked so highly against you. I don't want to whine and I know that the game has to make money so it can stay online, but I'm just tired of trying over, and over, and over, and over, ad-nauseum, only to be met with disappointment.

    The lockbox system is a joke and that joke isn't funny anymore.

    Best to just sell the keys and buy it off the exchange its price is stable around 200Mil so thats around 45 keys which is better than using like 100+ keys and still not getting the ship.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,517 Community Moderator
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%.

    Problem with this. The Vengeance is NOT in the lockbox. Its a Lobi ship. So why are you saying the odds are that low when all you need is either 900 Lobi or whatever the current market value is in ECs to buy one off the Exchange?
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  • meimeitoo
    meimeitoo Member Posts: 12,395 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.
    If their number crunching tells them very few people actually use multiples of a specific LB ship, then maybe they'll make them simple account unlocks.

    The math isn't just about multiple copies of the same ship, though. It's also different ships. How likely is a player who already has an account unlock ship to simply claim that on all toons instead of buying others?

    There is a very, very, very simple answer to that question. Ready? Because...they want them. That's literally it. You see, like many people I have a "main". Yes, I have lots of alts; and some I like more than others. But I still have what I consider my "main" character. Now, according to your logic, if a character already has a lockbox ship, they would have no reason to buy more on that same character, right? Wrong. My "main" has a TOS connie, a Kelvin connie, and Disco connie to name just a few(seriously, that character has many billions of credits worth of ships). Why do I have those ships on a single character? Because...I wanted them. So no, just because I already had lockbox ships on a specific character did not stop me from buying more on that same character.
    I collect ships, too. So what? The world doesn't run on "me, me, me." Cryptic will be looking at the player population in general. I couldn't even begin to guess what their stats would say on the matter, but a single player is a drop in the ocean.


    Motives are irrelevant, only numbers count. And the math is actually quite simple. First, there's the opportunity cost of not being able to sell lockbox ship X on all your toons (when lockboxes become account-wide). That part is easy: they know precisely how many ppl buy lockbox ships, and how many of those ppl also buy the same ship for another toon. The second factor is harder to calculate: how many ppl don't buy a lockbox ship to begin with, because of being out off by the fact that they're character-bound? That will be more of a guesstimation.

    So, if they weigh the factors, and conclude that, overall, they can sell more lock box ships when they make them account-wide (and this number offsets the opportunity cost of not being able to sell the same ship on more of your account's toons), then they might consider it. Else, they won't. As I said, why ppl are buying them isn't really relevant.

    My own guess is, that the number of ppl actually buying the same lockbox ship on multiple of their toons, is likely very low. This should work in favor of making lockbox ships account-wide.
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  • strychnyne1
    strychnyne1 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%.

    Problem with this. The Vengeance is NOT in the lockbox. Its a Lobi ship. So why are you saying the odds are that low when all you need is either 900 Lobi or whatever the current market value is in ECs to buy one off the Exchange?

    Because when it was in the lockbox it would've been faster for me to win it vs. playing for Lobi or Ec's. Sorry I don't have time to play this like you do.

    I'm sorry...
  • baddmoonrizin
    baddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,384 Community Moderator
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%.

    Problem with this. The Vengeance is NOT in the lockbox. Its a Lobi ship. So why are you saying the odds are that low when all you need is either 900 Lobi or whatever the current market value is in ECs to buy one off the Exchange?

    Because when it was in the lockbox it would've been faster for me to win it vs. playing for Lobi or Ec's. Sorry I don't have time to play this like you do.

    I'm sorry...

    The Vengeance was never in a Lockbox. It was always a Lobi ship.
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  • sci321
    sci321 Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%.

    Problem with this. The Vengeance is NOT in the lockbox. Its a Lobi ship. So why are you saying the odds are that low when all you need is either 900 Lobi or whatever the current market value is in ECs to buy one off the Exchange?

    Because when it was in the lockbox it would've been faster for me to win it vs. playing for Lobi or Ec's. Sorry I don't have time to play this like you do.

    I'm sorry...

    Firstly, it was never in the lock box to begin with. Secondly, the only way to currently get Lobi Crystals is from opening lock boxes. They are an additional reward on top of the random reward. Thirdly, the Lobi Crystals in a character's inventory can be used to access the Lobi store anywhere, so there's really no reason to complain about it taking longer to amass the Lobi to purchase a ship from the store that it is to earn a ship pack from a lock box.
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,889 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%.

    Problem with this. The Vengeance is NOT in the lockbox. Its a Lobi ship. So why are you saying the odds are that low when all you need is either 900 Lobi or whatever the current market value is in ECs to buy one off the Exchange?

    Because when it was in the lockbox it would've been faster for me to win it vs. playing for Lobi or Ec's. Sorry I don't have time to play this like you do.

    I'm sorry...

    You just sell the keys instead of opening boxes and buy the Vengeance off the exchange.

    I picked up my last Vengence for 190M, they're practically free. Opening boxes trying to get to 900 Lobi 4-8 at a time is madness.. why on earth would you do that?

    As said before, the Vengeance has never at any time been available as a lock box drop. Being a lobi ship makes it cheap, the Vengeance is one of the cheapest T6 ships on the exchange.. it's a fantastic deal for such a great ship. Absolutely no one should be complaining about it being difficult to acquire a Vengeance.
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  • qaianna#1457
    qaianna#1457 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »

    By making them Account-wide they are NOT making them less rare or more ubiquitous because you can only be logged in to an Account ONE Character at a time. At any given moment you will not be seeing more of them flying around.


    Although that sounds logical, at first glance, it's probably not entirey accurate. Having the same lockbox ship on multiple toons enhances not the total number of those ships, but the chance of there being one out there, period. So, if you have 8 toons, and only 1 of them has the lockbox ship, you could only ever be seen flying it when you were on that specific toon. And with the change, you could the be seen flying one on any of those 8 toons.

    I think people might be merging two different ideas together here and kind of muddying the waters a bit. There are two ways that they could make a Lock Box ships 'account wide.'

    Method 1: The ship is claimed by the character that opens the box just like now. That ship and it's console/gear are bound to that character. The character however, has the option to unequip those items, re-box the ship and gear and transfer the account bound box to an alternate character. This means that only one character at a time could have the ship and it's related gear. Sending those items to an alt means that the primary character loses all access. This would require some special method to deal with how the star ship trait would be handled as those are per character unlocks. Same with the Admiralty Card.

    Method 2: The ship works like a C-Store item and all of the characters on the account can now freely claim and use that ship and it's associated gear and traits. I find this option highly unlikely as this would, in my opinion, greatly reduce demand for lock box/R&D ships, especially ones like the TOS Dreadnought that is highly prized for it's powerful console, or the Mirror Escort Carrier for it's trait.

    I believe that the method being considered is Option 1. I actually think this would be a fair way to handle things, it's still not 'account wide' so if you wanted 2 of your characters to have Discovery Enterprises for example.. you would still need to get 2 ships. It would however, prevent you from having that ship locked to that character and give you the option to change your mind down the road.

    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.

    I like option one better, especially as it can solve two kind'a related problems.

    'Wow, I just got this ship on toon 2. It's..ugh. It's a better fit for toon 1. Rats.' Good old buyer's remorse, where you do have the ship and want to keep it but it's under the wrong character for it.

    'I finally got the drop! I..opened it on the wrong toon. Rats.' Especially if you bought the ship, popped it open in your haste to enjoy your new toy, and realised you bought it using your rich toon but meant it for another.

    One question would be whether the 'used' ship should still be salable. I don't know; it's tempting to imagine a used ship dealership, but then that might bring prices down more than they want as people unload unloved ships on the market.

    (For the record: my two mains fly a Kelvin Intel dread bought off the exchange ... and a Fleet Alita that was my very first actual cash spent on the game in the C-Store. Which I thought would go on my first main, but she now likes big boats and now it's on my secondary. Go fig.)
  • reyan01
    reyan01 Member Posts: 15,510 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    sci321 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%.

    Problem with this. The Vengeance is NOT in the lockbox. Its a Lobi ship. So why are you saying the odds are that low when all you need is either 900 Lobi or whatever the current market value is in ECs to buy one off the Exchange?

    Because when it was in the lockbox it would've been faster for me to win it vs. playing for Lobi or Ec's. Sorry I don't have time to play this like you do.

    I'm sorry...

    Firstly, it was never in the lock box to begin with. Secondly, the only way to currently get Lobi Crystals is from opening lock boxes. They are an additional reward on top of the random reward. Thirdly, the Lobi Crystals in a character's inventory can be used to access the Lobi store anywhere, so there's really no reason to complain about it taking longer to amass the Lobi to purchase a ship from the store that it is to earn a ship pack from a lock box.

    Untrue. Lobi is NOT an "additional reward".

    Lobi Crystals are the ONE thing(s) absolutely 100% guaranteed to drop when you open boxes. Therefore it could be argued that, since there is a zero chance of not receiving Lobi when you open a box, they are actually what you are buying.

    I like option one better, especially as it can solve two kind'a related problems.

    'Wow, I just got this ship on toon 2. It's..ugh. It's a better fit for toon 1. Rats.' Good old buyer's remorse, where you do have the ship and want to keep it but it's under the wrong character for it.

    Agreed. Whilst am not actually in that boat with my Discovery Constitution, I gave said ship to my TOS (or AoY if you prefer) character. Again - I don't regret doing so. I did wonder whether I should give it to my far newer Age of Discovery character but decided that since my TOS/AoY character was far better developed, that character should have it.
    But still would've liked one for my AoD character really.
  • blitzy4
    blitzy4 Member Posts: 835 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Option 2 seems extremely unlikely to me.. I just don't see a scenario where that would ever be considered.
    If their number crunching tells them very few people actually use multiples of a specific LB ship, then maybe they'll make them simple account unlocks.

    The math isn't just about multiple copies of the same ship, though. It's also different ships. How likely is a player who already has an account unlock ship to simply claim that on all toons instead of buying others?

    There is a very, very, very simple answer to that question. Ready? Because...they want them. That's literally it. You see, like many people I have a "main". Yes, I have lots of alts; and some I like more than others. But I still have what I consider my "main" character. Now, according to your logic, if a character already has a lockbox ship, they would have no reason to buy more on that same character, right? Wrong. My "main" has a TOS connie, a Kelvin connie, and Disco connie to name just a few(seriously, that character has many billions of credits worth of ships). Why do I have those ships on a single character? Because...I wanted them. So no, just because I already had lockbox ships on a specific character did not stop me from buying more on that same character.

    I tend to agree with nagus. I have a lot of ships on my main, but lots of lockbox ships and lobi ships I didn't get cause I knew I wouldn't use them. That'd probably change if they were account driven. Heck I have an alt I stopped playing cause I couldn't get a TOS ship I liked for them. If I had access to my Main's ships, she'd still be played.
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    "..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino



  • sci321
    sci321 Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    reyan01 wrote: »
    sci321 wrote: »
    Firstly, it was never in the lock box to begin with. Secondly, the only way to currently get Lobi Crystals is from opening lock boxes. They are an additional reward on top of the random reward. Thirdly, the Lobi Crystals in a character's inventory can be used to access the Lobi store anywhere, so there's really no reason to complain about it taking longer to amass the Lobi to purchase a ship from the store that it is to earn a ship pack from a lock box.

    Untrue. Lobi is NOT an "additional reward".

    Lobi Crystals are the ONE thing(s) absolutely 100% guaranteed to drop when you open boxes. Therefore it could be argued that, since there is a zero chance of not receiving Lobi when you open a box, they are actually what you are buying.

    That's what I meant. :/

  • crypticarmsman
    crypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,892 Arc User
    sci321 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I've been with STO since it came out in stores and I bought the collector's edition (I still have my Starfleet badge that came with it). I HAVE bought lockbox keys before all in the pursuit of the U.S.S. Vengeance-Class Dreadnought. I have yet to even come close. That's all I want is the ONE ship and my odds of getting it are around 0.1%.

    Problem with this. The Vengeance is NOT in the lockbox. Its a Lobi ship. So why are you saying the odds are that low when all you need is either 900 Lobi or whatever the current market value is in ECs to buy one off the Exchange?

    Because when it was in the lockbox it would've been faster for me to win it vs. playing for Lobi or Ec's. Sorry I don't have time to play this like you do.

    I'm sorry...

    Firstly, it was never in the lock box to begin with. Secondly, the only way to currently get Lobi Crystals is from opening lock boxes. They are an additional reward on top of the random reward. Thirdly, the Lobi Crystals in a character's inventory can be used to access the Lobi store anywhere, so there's really no reason to complain about it taking longer to amass the Lobi to purchase a ship from the store that it is to earn a ship pack from a lock box.

    I have a feeling Lobi Crystal ships were done becausae it was felt by TPTB that IF you opened a $h!tload of Lockboxes WITHOUT getting the Ship reward you really wanted, at least you were able to get a sort of consolation prize ship.
    ^^^
    That thinking seems to have gone by the wayside though (IE releasing a 'main' lockbox only ship with a Lobi counterpart ship. In the past they would have done the Kelvin and the Franklin together and one would have been a lockbox ship and the other a Lobi ship - but I assume at this point they figure the ROI is higher with making every 'major' ship a lockbox ship; and there's enough Lobi ships already to select from as consolation.)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • echatty
    echatty Member Posts: 5,718 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    I guarantee that lobi ships are not consolations. I own the Paradox and the Quas and neither of them are any kind of 'consolation'. I also own the T5-U DSD and it's no slouch either.

    The Paradox is a pretty mean dread and the Quas is great for the toon that's on it. My friend bought me both ships at different times as special gifts and I've been very grateful. Also own the Wells and it still holds its own in anything I want to put her in. I know it's a lockbox, but it's still T5-U.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,788 Arc User
    .
    echatty wrote: »
    I guarantee that lobi ships are not consolations. I own the Paradox and the Quas and neither of them are any kind of 'consolation'. I also own the T5-U DSD and it's no slouch either.

    The Paradox is a pretty mean dread and the Quas is great for the toon that's on it. My friend bought me both ships at different times as special gifts and I've been very grateful. Also own the Wells and it still holds its own in anything I want to put her in. I know it's a lockbox, but it's still T5-U.

    Yep, my Paradox is a great ship, so is my Tholian Iktomi science ship, Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser, Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier. Other players love their NX cruiser and so on.

    It's fair to say that when adding a new set of ships they make the one they think will sell the least into the lobi ship. So a science ship is lobi while the cruiser is lock box.
  • annemarie30
    annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,224 Arc User
    Phoenix:

    As low as the odds are for the UR and Epic, making those ships account-wide is a reasonable change.

    For everything else, VR drop often enough that I'm fine with them being per-character.

    Lock Box / R&D pack:

    That would be a nice increase in value, but wouldn't affect me that much since I want every captain to have a different theme and fly a different ship.

    I would benefit when a ship happens to have a trait that could be useful to another captain, like "Unstable Anomalies" on my Paradox.

    or a least make the trait available account wide, even if it cost Dilithium
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    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • postagepaid
    postagepaid Member Posts: 2,869 Arc User
    In Neverwinter on some occasions they would place a very special companion on the market and let people bid for them. The winner got the companion and that was it.

    They are not doing that here. The market isn't even set up for that sort of thing.

    Neverwinters auction house uses the equivalent of dilithium so when cryptic put stuff onto there it'll be to try and coax life into the AD to zen conversions rather than anything else.
  • reyan01
    reyan01 Member Posts: 15,510 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    To be honest, they could make some small profit from this if they truly wanted. Something like a "Account-Wide Ship Unlock Token" for *enter amount* Zen.
  • foxrockssocks
    foxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    To be honest, they could make some small profit from this if they truly wanted. Something like a "Account-Wide Ship Unlock Token" for *enter amount* Zen.

    They could, but they haven't done it for doff/boff/inventory slots yet, and people have been wanting that for years.