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Nova class: the Ship the Game Forgot

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  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    [quote="phoenixc#0738;c-13537242"
    while the Rhode Island class was faster and built for longer range exploration but sacrifices its secondary deflector to do so.

    That's BS. The Rhode Island clearly *does* have a visible secondary deflector. It's just a tad smaller.

    True, I should have said "sacrificed some of (or much of) its secondary deflector capacity" but that comment was getting rather long already.



    That's still a jump to conclusions here. Smaller does *not* mean weaker. Current technology tends to get smaller AND better, and the ST-universe has similar examples. The Rhode Island-class was never "explained" on screen, and was literally just put into the final episode to give Harry Kim a little boat to command.

    We can only assume she was more advanced than the Equinox was, but that's really all we get.

    From all we know, the smaller, more integrated secondary deflector could be ten times as powerful.

    Also... did Bonchune REALLY mention the secondary deflector at all? I thought the term was more or less tacked on way later. I hardly believe they looked at the Nova-class while thinking About how to upgrade the looks for Endgame and actually thinking about a little detail like that. Slapping together ship-designs for an episode usually means they don't have much time to do that. If they had actual time they might have created some completely new design.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    while the Rhode Island class was faster and built for longer range exploration but sacrifices its secondary deflector to do so.

    That's BS. The Rhode Island clearly *does* have a visible secondary deflector. It's just a tad smaller.

    True, I should have said "sacrificed some of (or much of) its secondary deflector capacity" but that comment was getting rather long already.


    I highly doubt Bonchune actually *thought* about the secondary deflector back in the day at all, and even if he did, he was just the guy who designed the visual upgrade. Designer-ideas do usually not align with the result in a movie or show or game. They were producing an episode for a TV-Show, and Endgame was produced at a time where that was a lot more tedious than nowadays. They didn't have the time or budget to create an original design, so they looked at existing ones and picked the Equinox, tried to make it look cooler or at least unique, and called it a day.


    Also.. The ship is Pretty much the same size, probably just like a few metres longer and a metre or two higher because of the closed saucer-front and the new bridge-dome. Meaning the chassis should have the same base-capabilities.

    Smaller, both in the ST-universe and our real world is not automatically weaker or a trade-off. Because time has passed we can only assume that Rhode Island is more capable in general. Modern Technology tends to get smaller AND more powerful. So, from what we know, Rhode Island's secondary deflector might as well be ten times as effective as the one Equinox had. Or perhaps the deflector's power is just about the same, just in a smaller frame and thus granting the ship more room for some extra storage or an extra-lab or something. I would never believe it's weaker though.


    If I were to make a semi-smart theory it'd go more like this:

    May be it's the other way around. Nova-class was being revised by SFE after the first ten years or so of duty and from the data analyzed, they gathered the secondary deflector being a cause of multiple issues. Perhaps it was too large for the small ship, drained too much power and because of that was less effective than it could have been. On top of that it also reduced the maximum-warp speed due to poor optimization, bogging down the already rather slow ship all the more. So they designed a major refit with a smaller but just as capable secondary-deflector and noticed they can store two more crates of Saurian brandy in the now freed-up space. Tests went smoothly and the ship can go to decent warp-speeds now too. Just don't tell anybody about the brandy.

    And that really is crazy-talk. Info that simply is made up and has no bearing on anything.
    Post edited by redeyedraven on
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,297 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    while the Rhode Island class was faster and built for longer range exploration but sacrifices its secondary deflector to do so.

    That's BS. The Rhode Island clearly *does* have a visible secondary deflector. It's just a tad smaller.

    True, I should have said "sacrificed some of (or much of) its secondary deflector capacity" but that comment was getting rather long already.


    I highly doubt Bonchune actually *thought* about the secondary deflector back in the day at all, and even if he did, he was just the guy who designed the visual upgrade. Designer-ideas do usually not align with the result in a movie or show or game. They were producing an episode for a TV-Show, and Endgame was produced at a time where that was a lot more tedious than nowadays. They didn't have the time or budget to create an original design, so they looked at existing ones and picked the Equinox, tried to make it look cooler or at least unique, and called it a day.


    Also.. The ship is Pretty much the same size, probably just like a few metres longer and a metre or two higher because of the closed saucer-front and the new bridge-dome. Meaning the chassis should have the same base-capabilities.

    Smaller, both in the ST-universe and our real world is not automatically weaker or a trade-off. Because time has passed we can only assume that Rhode Island is more capable in general. Modern Technology tends to get smaller AND more powerful. So, from what we know, Rhode Island's secondary deflector might as well be ten times as effective as the one Equinox had. Or perhaps the deflector's power is just about the same, just in a smaller frame and thus granting the ship more room for some extra storage or an extra-lab or something. I would never believe it's weaker though.


    If I were to make a semi-smart theory it'd go more like this:

    May be it's the other way around. Nova-class was being revised by SFE after the first ten years or so of duty and from the data analyzed, they gathered the secondary deflector being a cause of multiple issues. Perhaps it was too large for the small ship, drained too much power and because of that was less effective than it could have been. On top of that it also reduced the maximum-warp speed due to poor optimization, bogging down the already rather slow ship all the more. So they designed a major refit with a smaller but just as capable secondary-deflector and noticed they can store two more crates of Saurian brandy in the now freed-up space. Tests went smoothly and the ship can go to decent warp-speeds now too. Just don't tell anybody about the brandy.

    And that really is crazy-talk. Info that simply is made up and has no bearing on anything.

    They do actually write descriptions or requirements for ships and other elements for the designers. It is not often very long (the one for the Nova class was a whole two short paragraphs IIRC for instance) but it is almost always there or you get a lot of weird stuff that either has to be rejected or if time runs out has to be used even though it looks stupid to the fans.

    Also, while some designers just slap stuff together without thought like the way you describe (too many in fact from the looks of some the idiotic stuff on TV) some actually think about how things function in order to get the ideas flowing, and Bonchune is one of them. Jefferies was another, he designed things with function before form, then would tweak the form a bit for looks and polish afterwards. Thinking about the function first is a much better way to design than just jumping in and slinging shapes for rule of cool only.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,537 Arc User
    Referring back to Robert Bonchune, he said this (regarding the Rhode Island) in an interview many moons ago:

    "I did not come up with the name, but was allowed to come up with the NCC number and do whatever I liked to the shape. I always liked the ship, kind of like a small corvette Starship and I figured in a future time it would have been smoothed out and more organic. I also tried to tie it in to the Enterprise-E (or a Standard Starship) in some ways in terms of smoothness and escape hatches, intercoolers etc. I tried to make her look like she was moving fast and slick even standing still. I was going to make other changes to the bottom, but ran out of time for the show. (One reason why I shot her in the scenes from the top as much as possible) We had SO much to do on that finally, it was mind boggling!"

  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Referring back to Robert Bonchune, he said this (regarding the Rhode Island) in an interview many moons ago:

    "I did not come up with the name, but was allowed to come up with the NCC number and do whatever I liked to the shape. I always liked the ship, kind of like a small corvette Starship and I figured in a future time it would have been smoothed out and more organic. I also tried to tie it in to the Enterprise-E (or a Standard Starship) in some ways in terms of smoothness and escape hatches, intercoolers etc. I tried to make her look like she was moving fast and slick even standing still. I was going to make other changes to the bottom, but ran out of time for the show. (One reason why I shot her in the scenes from the top as much as possible) We had SO much to do on that finally, it was mind boggling!"

    Too bad they ran out of time. They literally ended up halfway done with the ship while they wanted to also rework the rest of it. It'd be so cool if Bonchune and Cryptic would collaborate to make the T6-Nova a fully realised version of the RI.

    At the very least hope that when the day finally comes, the T6 Nova's design will not simply be a mini-Pathfinder.
    Post edited by redeyedraven on
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    At least we got a new Science VEssel this week, with apparently even a good trait.

    When the T6 Nova finally comes, we'll have all the tools we need to make it awesome.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,537 Arc User
    At least we got a new Science VEssel this week, with apparently even a good trait.

    When the T6 Nova finally comes, we'll have all the tools we need to make it awesome.

    I guess that's true - still, as long as the wait has been the sting has been lessened a great deal; although am playing the new Intel-Sci ship, I'm actually questioning whether even a T6 Nova would keep me away from my DSC Constitution for very long. The DSC Connie feels like it has been a literal game-changer for me.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    At least we got a new Science VEssel this week, with apparently even a good trait.

    When the T6 Nova finally comes, we'll have all the tools we need to make it awesome.

    I guess that's true - still, as long as the wait has been the sting has been lessened a great deal; although am playing the new Intel-Sci ship, I'm actually questioning whether even a T6 Nova would keep me away from my DSC Constitution for very long. The DSC Connie feels like it has been a literal game-changer for me.

    The Nova would overall be more pleasant to fly though, because of size, manouverability and the ability to apply excessive exotic damage thanks to all those nice universal and science-consoles that grant extra % of that.

    I also had plenty of fun with the Kelvin and the Mirror-Crossfield.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,537 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    At least we got a new Science VEssel this week, with apparently even a good trait.

    When the T6 Nova finally comes, we'll have all the tools we need to make it awesome.

    I guess that's true - still, as long as the wait has been the sting has been lessened a great deal; although am playing the new Intel-Sci ship, I'm actually questioning whether even a T6 Nova would keep me away from my DSC Constitution for very long. The DSC Connie feels like it has been a literal game-changer for me.

    The Nova would overall be more pleasant to fly though, because of size, manouverability and the ability to apply excessive exotic damage thanks to all those nice universal and science-consoles that grant extra % of that.

    I also had plenty of fun with the Kelvin and the Mirror-Crossfield.

    Yeah - that's true; her size and agilitiy have always been elements of the Nova/Rhode Island that appealed to me.

    Although I will say that I find the DSC Connie suprisingly agile for it's size, and with a Enhanced RCS Accelerator equipped she has a pretty good turn-rate too.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Although I will say that I find the DSC Connie suprisingly agile for it's size, and with a Enhanced RCS Accelerator equipped she has a pretty good turn-rate too.

    Yeah, she's not a turtle by any means.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    I bet on the Nova being included in whatever ships they release for the 10 year anniversary. If not... Then I don't know anymore.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • zeithrizeithri Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    Next Poster below here.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,537 Arc User
    I bet on the Nova being included in whatever ships they release for the 10 year anniversary. If not... Then I don't know anymore.
    From what they showed off at STLV, and from they posted on twitter, teasing a Galaxy class model remaster, I suspect the Legends update is going to be more focused on fine turning the hero ships more then anything.

    Not going to get my hopes up, but this does sound vaugely promising.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,537 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Not going to get my hopes up, but this does sound vaugely promising.
    Here is the brief flyby they showed

    The Jellyfish, all of the main Enterprises, Defiant, Voyager, and Discovery.(Spoilered to keep the size down)
    GVp4ysD.jpg
    Ef0DtLU.jpg
    wRMJUNz.jpg
    EyR3yVg.jpg
    xSTfjuQ.jpg
    biIqv6R.jpg
    "We really want this to be - you know, for the team, for the players, for everybody - we want this to be a true celebration of the heroes, of the villains, of the players, and try to create something that is a little bit different and a lot of fun."

    "We really want to do something special here [for the 10th anniversary], it's tough to talk about without spoilers, but I can say that there are things that have been asked for over the years that we're certainly going to deliver against. 'Ships you've been waiting for' and the ability to get them in ways that you haven't been able to before. We're going to try to make them directly accessible rather than indirectly accessible. The content is starting to be outlined right now, but it's super cool and we're already pursuing some pretty special VO talent, a whole bunch of stuff around this that I can't wait to talk more about, and we can start to open the doors on that after Awakening."
    "'How many ships?' More than one! Less than three hundred."
    "For our anniversary? Well, here's a hint. What's the anniversary?" "It's the 10th anniversary."
    "There might be 10 ships."
    "Actually based on a conversation I had in the hallway on the way up here there might be more than 10!"
    "There might be more than 10, it's a very cool plan for this."
    "It's super cool, and this is another [Lead UI and ship artist Thomas'] baby, he's been pushing really hard for one of the things that we're doing and it's really, really exciting."

    Thanks for the links/info - I guess can only hope at this point.

    Although I'll confess, whilst I still very much hope for a T6 Nova, obtaining the DSC Constitution took the sting out of this somewhat.

  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Not going to get my hopes up, but this does sound vaugely promising.
    Here is the brief flyby they showed

    The Jellyfish, all of the main Enterprises, Defiant, Voyager, and Discovery.(Spoilered to keep the size down)
    GVp4ysD.jpg
    Ef0DtLU.jpg
    wRMJUNz.jpg
    EyR3yVg.jpg
    xSTfjuQ.jpg
    biIqv6R.jpg
    "We really want this to be - you know, for the team, for the players, for everybody - we want this to be a true celebration of the heroes, of the villains, of the players, and try to create something that is a little bit different and a lot of fun."

    "We really want to do something special here [for the 10th anniversary], it's tough to talk about without spoilers, but I can say that there are things that have been asked for over the years that we're certainly going to deliver against. 'Ships you've been waiting for' and the ability to get them in ways that you haven't been able to before. We're going to try to make them directly accessible rather than indirectly accessible. The content is starting to be outlined right now, but it's super cool and we're already pursuing some pretty special VO talent, a whole bunch of stuff around this that I can't wait to talk more about, and we can start to open the doors on that after Awakening."
    "'How many ships?' More than one! Less than three hundred."
    "For our anniversary? Well, here's a hint. What's the anniversary?" "It's the 10th anniversary."
    "There might be 10 ships."
    "Actually based on a conversation I had in the hallway on the way up here there might be more than 10!"
    "There might be more than 10, it's a very cool plan for this."
    "It's super cool, and this is another [Lead UI and ship artist Thomas'] baby, he's been pushing really hard for one of the things that we're doing and it's really, really exciting."

    Thanks for the links/info - I guess can only hope at this point.

    Although I'll confess, whilst I still very much hope for a T6 Nova, obtaining the DSC Constitution took the sting out of this somewhat.
    Heresy! Traitor! Burnham higher!
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,537 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Not going to get my hopes up, but this does sound vaugely promising.
    Here is the brief flyby they showed

    The Jellyfish, all of the main Enterprises, Defiant, Voyager, and Discovery.(Spoilered to keep the size down)
    GVp4ysD.jpg
    Ef0DtLU.jpg
    wRMJUNz.jpg
    EyR3yVg.jpg
    xSTfjuQ.jpg
    biIqv6R.jpg
    "We really want this to be - you know, for the team, for the players, for everybody - we want this to be a true celebration of the heroes, of the villains, of the players, and try to create something that is a little bit different and a lot of fun."

    "We really want to do something special here [for the 10th anniversary], it's tough to talk about without spoilers, but I can say that there are things that have been asked for over the years that we're certainly going to deliver against. 'Ships you've been waiting for' and the ability to get them in ways that you haven't been able to before. We're going to try to make them directly accessible rather than indirectly accessible. The content is starting to be outlined right now, but it's super cool and we're already pursuing some pretty special VO talent, a whole bunch of stuff around this that I can't wait to talk more about, and we can start to open the doors on that after Awakening."
    "'How many ships?' More than one! Less than three hundred."
    "For our anniversary? Well, here's a hint. What's the anniversary?" "It's the 10th anniversary."
    "There might be 10 ships."
    "Actually based on a conversation I had in the hallway on the way up here there might be more than 10!"
    "There might be more than 10, it's a very cool plan for this."
    "It's super cool, and this is another [Lead UI and ship artist Thomas'] baby, he's been pushing really hard for one of the things that we're doing and it's really, really exciting."

    Thanks for the links/info - I guess can only hope at this point.

    Although I'll confess, whilst I still very much hope for a T6 Nova, obtaining the DSC Constitution took the sting out of this somewhat.
    Heresy! Traitor! Burnham higher!

    :D

    I make no apologies for thinking that the DSC Enterprise is one of, if not THE, most gorgeous ships ever to grace our screens.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    Someone else with an idea for a Tier 6 Nova: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/dnw9wm/cryptic_thinks_players_dont_want_science_vessels/

    I don't particularly like coolinwithcosta's stat ideas, but unlike most of us, he has the artistic talent to visualize his ship idea:
    joghw7if74v31.jpg

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    Someone else with an idea for a Tier 6 Nova: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/dnw9wm/cryptic_thinks_players_dont_want_science_vessels/

    I don't particularly like coolinwithcosta's stat ideas, but unlike most of us, he has the artistic talent to visualize his ship idea:
    joghw7if74v31.jpg

    I could live with that design easily! :)

    Cool how elements fit with other current ships like the nacelles of the Gagarin.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,537 Arc User
    Someone else with an idea for a Tier 6 Nova: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/dnw9wm/cryptic_thinks_players_dont_want_science_vessels/

    I don't particularly like coolinwithcosta's stat ideas, but unlike most of us, he has the artistic talent to visualize his ship idea:
    joghw7if74v31.jpg

    That actually looks pretty decent!
  • lnbladelnblade Member Posts: 408 Arc User
    Someone else with an idea for a Tier 6 Nova: https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/dnw9wm/cryptic_thinks_players_dont_want_science_vessels/

    I don't particularly like coolinwithcosta's stat ideas, but unlike most of us, he has the artistic talent to visualize his ship idea:
    joghw7if74v31.jpg
    Agreed about the stats, I think we have more than enough intel sci ships (also find it odd that they gave it the Intel mechanic without a commander intel seat, but whatever). But visually, I think it does a good job of moving the Nova into the current aesthetic of Starfleet design. And it's interesting that it uses the Edison's deflector as a big ol' honkin' huge secondary deflector array.
  • shrimphead2015shrimphead2015 Member Posts: 497 Arc User
    I could really see a type 7 skin on that ship , ooh that is going to look real good !

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  • tiekosoratiekosora Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    I would be happy with tying the Nova to an existing science ship, as far as cosmetics are concerned. Even if it were just stock Nova or Rhode Island, making it available on any of the existing T6 science ships would be awesome. Want a Nova with a temporal flair, choose the TOS T6 temporal science ship, take it to the ship designer window, and click on Nova on the left. Material and window options should be available that match those already there for the existing Nova T2 ship, but hull/nacelle/pylon/saucer selection would be greyed out. Same for Rhode Island, it would be stock, with the existing choices for materials/windows.

    Come to think of it, the same could be done for the Luna class as well.

    EDIT: If they were never to do a T6 Oberth, which is just as often requested as a Nova, they could apply the same treatment.
    18EOWbV.jpg

    They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,297 Arc User
    The Norway always looked like it was designed for slip in modules
    tiekosora wrote: »
    I would be happy with tying the Nova to an existing science ship, as far as cosmetics are concerned. Even if it were just stock Nova or Rhode Island, making it available on any of the existing T6 science ships would be awesome. Want a Nova with a temporal flair, choose the TOS T6 temporal science ship, take it to the ship designer window, and click on Nova on the left. Material and window options should be available that match those already there for the existing Nova T2 ship, but hull/nacelle/pylon/saucer selection would be greyed out. Same for Rhode Island, it would be stock, with the existing choices for materials/windows.

    Come to think of it, the same could be done for the Luna class as well.

    EDIT: If they were never to do a T6 Oberth, which is just as often requested as a Nova, they could apply the same treatment.

    It is not quite as simple as that to do, for one thing they have to set up the firing hardpoints which are at least somewhat different on every ship. Taking an existing T6 science ship and modifying to better represent a Nova is not a bad idea when they can get around to working on it though.
  • tiekosoratiekosora Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    Nothing is simple. I suggested, even campaigned for, evolving starships back before closed beta. We just got them in the last year or so. Still waiting on a client-side means to assign default uniforms for players and NPCs. Some of y'all are color blind.

    EDIT: They would be using existing models. The only thing they would need to do is affix additional hardpoints. as you said. Perhaps assign additional weapon slots to use the same emitter arrays as a short-term fix, until they have the time to do it proper.
    18EOWbV.jpg

    They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
  • charlesdonovancharlesdonovan Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    Count my vote for it. I'm flying the mirror one every now and again.
This discussion has been closed.