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"Infected: Manus" are no longer eligible for Random TFO inclusion ?

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  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 319 Arc User
    edited October 30
    For people who aren't Elite DPSers, killing enemies is actually part of the mission. Normal queues have pathetically easy enemies because they're balanced under the assumption that people who suck(by my standards) play them. Advanced has noticeably harder to kill enemies. So it is genuinely harder even if it's what you, as an elite DPSer, considers a low bar.
    You don't need to be an Elite DPSers to play Advanced. Arguably, you don't even need it for Elites, depending on the queue and the overall group composition.
    Normal queues have been balanced based on exactly what has been shown in this thread: you and people like you that feels that needing teamwork and to press more than one button - while waiting for a timer to reach 0 - is too much work.
    Also, "people who suck"... way to be offensive of both new players and those that are starting on a new character from scratch.

    As @felisean said, like many others before him, there are 3 difficulty levels in the game and each one should present an increasingly challenging experience. If Advanced is too hard for you, then go for Normal. If you can't do Elites, then stay on Advanced. Is not THAT hard to understand, unless of course you simply refuse to see what's rigth in front of you.
    You want to make Advanced as easy as Normal - not that there is THAT much difference for 99% of the queues anyway - but with the "benefits" of running an Advanced queue.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 319 Arc User
    It’s almost as if we play different games or at least the same game on different difficulty settings. Still this can’t be the case ether as you clearly use the terms igA isA and kasA leading me to believe we play the very same. I percept it all entirely differently though.
    That or I don't expect the devs to make the game harder just because I find it easy.
    We don't, either. You are the one that are arguing for the game to be made easier because you find it too hard. As you yourself repeatedly shown for the entirety of this thread.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,540 Arc User
    edited October 30
    people like you that feels that needing teamwork and to press more than one button - while waiting for a timer to reach 0 - is too much work.
    Also, "people who suck"... way to be offensive of both new players and those that are starting on a new character from scratch.
    Yeah, you're just ranting at the wind now.

    You clearly didn't actually pay any attention to ANYTHING I actually said.

    Tell you what, just to continue discussion define "teamwork". Because quite frankly you've never said a single word about WHT you think is an example of good teamwork.... other than simultaneously pushing buttons.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,803 Arc User
    @markhawkman said;
    That or I don't expect the devs to make the game harder just because I find it easy.

    As a non parsing off meta player, widely considered inefficient and subpar among the DPS crowd. I do want the devs to, at minimum, restore fail conditions for all TFOs. I also want Manus restored to RTFO. I want the old Borg Elites back. I want harder missions that can fail, and by fail I mean you get nothing, no marks, no dill, no RTFO box, no R&D mats box, NOTHING.
  • feliseanfelisean Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    felisean wrote: »
    @markhawkman
    i would agree for a lot of things you're saying for NORMAL difficulty. but we're talking about ADVANCED.
    with your ideas you basically want the advanced difficulty to be like normal. in that case, just remove the normal version because it does not serve any purpose in the game anymore.

    if we have 3 difficulties, a difference and higher difficulty for higher difficulty levels is just natural. for a higher difficulty you SHOULD be able to handle more than 1 thing at the same time.

    for infected:manus ground normal as example, there is no jumping involved, because there are bridges available. so no bridges is basically the increased difficulty (in addition to stronger (=> doing more damage, could take more damage) enemies).

    if you want it easy, play normal. if you dont want it that easy so more difficult play advanced. if you cant handle advanced, dont play advanced ;)
    For people who aren't Elite DPSers, killing enemies is actually part of the mission. Normal queues have pathetically easy enemies because they're balanced under the assumption that people who suck(by my standards) play them. Advanced has noticeably harder to kill enemies. So it is genuinely harder even if it's what you, as an elite DPSer, considers a low bar.
    felisean wrote: »
    @markhawkman
    i would agree for a lot of things you're saying for NORMAL difficulty. but we're talking about ADVANCED.
    with your ideas you basically want the advanced difficulty to be like normal. in that case, just remove the normal version because it does not serve any purpose in the game anymore.

    if we have 3 difficulties, a difference and higher difficulty for higher difficulty levels is just natural. for a higher difficulty you SHOULD be able to handle more than 1 thing at the same time.

    for infected:manus ground normal as example, there is no jumping involved, because there are bridges available. so no bridges is basically the increased difficulty (in addition to stronger (=> doing more damage, could take more damage) enemies).

    if you want it easy, play normal. if you dont want it that easy so more difficult play advanced. if you cant handle advanced, dont play advanced ;)
    For people who aren't Elite DPSers, killing enemies is actually part of the mission. Normal queues have pathetically easy enemies because they're balanced under the assumption that people who suck(by my standards) play them. Advanced has noticeably harder to kill enemies. So it is genuinely harder even if it's what you, as an elite DPSer, considers a low bar.

    you know that you could all advanced queues by only launching pets from everyone in the team? if thats elite dpser.. yea than ok ^^
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 319 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    @markhawkman said;
    That or I don't expect the devs to make the game harder just because I find it easy.

    As a non parsing off meta player, widely considered inefficient and subpar among the DPS crowd. I do want the devs to, at minimum, restore fail conditions for all TFOs. I also want Manus restored to RTFO. I want the old Borg Elites back. I want harder missions that can fail, and by fail I mean you get nothing, no marks, no dill, no RTFO box, no R&D mats box, NOTHING.
    Finally, something we can agree on. Give us back fail conditions at higher difficulties! Give us back all the Elites that have been removed - in a proper way, not in some mind-dumbing, all-linear, repetitive af drivel.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,052 Arc User
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    Well, Kael answered my question on stream about the Infected Manus being removed from the Random TFO system. However about to head to work. So I will watch the video after work to get the full transcript of what he said.

    Kael actually gave a full explanation (not a simple one sentence). If you want to watch it, its within the first 15 mins of the stream. However I also expect reddit to quickly write up notes on the stream :)
    kXx65VK.jpg
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,288 Arc User
    I actually hope they don't change the old Borg STFs. They're some of the few missions that actually require teamwork, though admittedly this is less true today than it was years ago, especially for the space ones. If they want to add new Borg TFOs, that's fine, but leave the old ones alone. The only thing I might be interested in seeing is what the original combined ground and space STFs looked like, since I never got to play them.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,540 Arc User
    foxman00 wrote: »
    Well, Kael answered my question on stream about the Infected Manus being removed from the Random TFO system. However about to head to work. So I will watch the video after work to get the full transcript of what he said.

    Kael actually gave a full explanation (not a simple one sentence). If you want to watch it, its within the first 15 mins of the stream. However I also expect reddit to quickly write up notes on the stream :)
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.

    It was removed because Jesse Heinig made good on the statement made back when Kael showed off the RTFO system for the first time on stream. The devs think the mission is poorly designed.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    edited October 31
    (Flaming, trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    I will be going through the video in a few hours (quickly ducked home from work during lunch) to get an exact transcript. Because there was a sentence Kael said that unfortantely sounds very bad generally when you listen to it and read. When he said it during the stream I was like;

    "Wait, What? Did i just hear what he just said"

    I am concerned that while answering one question, Kael might have by accident put his foot in a trench by uttering another sentence that might be turned into a meme.
    kXx65VK.jpg
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    foxman00 wrote: »
    I will be going through the video in a few hours (quickly ducked home from work during lunch) to get an exact transcript. Because there was a sentence Kael said that unfortantely sounds very bad generally when you listen to it and read. When he said it during the stream I was like;

    "Wait, What? Did i just hear what he just said"

    I am concerned that while answering one question, Kael might have by accident put his foot in a trench by uttering another sentence that might be turned into a meme.

    Message me the sentence. I will make the meme dream become reality.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,498 Arc User
    edited October 31
    foxman00 wrote: »
    Well, Kael answered my question on stream about the Infected Manus being removed from the Random TFO system. However about to head to work. So I will watch the video after work to get the full transcript of what he said.

    Kael actually gave a full explanation (not a simple one sentence). If you want to watch it, its within the first 15 mins of the stream. However I also expect reddit to quickly write up notes on the stream :)

    Well looks like you got your answer and thanks to you we got it as well. Thank you. :)

    Hehe, that’s sadly the only positive aspect to it I’m afraid though. Performance players have had a hard time to find something fun in this title for ages but so for we somehow managed. I was always wondering how far down the skill level flor as far as game design is supposed to get. With the entire Kael and removal of maps thingy here I have learned that the height of the floor isn’t really an issue as this house seems to have a very deep cellar. Yep! It can get worse, and it surely will get worse with the current cryptic staff at the helm. Future content will be trivial and easy beyond imagination with players like Kael and @markhawkman soloing it.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,540 Arc User
    edited October 31
    (Response to moderated comments removed. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,498 Arc User
    edited October 31
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.

    Perhaps Jenny and I aren’t the ones who need to be asked if we have actually read something or listened to something?!

    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles

    Kael calls this “old school” game design they would not do anymore today. To nail it your “quality standards” mean general decisions for random PvE (good lord so everything 5-man in normal & advanced) that lead to maps that
    -> Are not about struggling
    -> Do not require “deep” communication (lol IGA)
    -> Do not require free planning
    -> Do not require strategy

    This does not leave any room for interpretation! Words like “quality” or “standard” are just there in order to make you feel appreciated because the reality is as sad as it is simple: Content needs to be easy enough for you handle. Congratulations! :D
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,540 Arc User
    foxman00 wrote: »
    Well, Kael answered my question on stream about the Infected Manus being removed from the Random TFO system. However about to head to work. So I will watch the video after work to get the full transcript of what he said.

    Kael actually gave a full explanation (not a simple one sentence). If you want to watch it, its within the first 15 mins of the stream. However I also expect reddit to quickly write up notes on the stream :)
    Well looks like you got your answer and thanks to you we got it as well. Thank you. :)

    Hehe, that’s sadly the only positive aspect to it I’m afraid though. Performance players have had a hard time to find something fun in this title for ages but so for we somehow managed. I was always wondering how far down the skill level flor as far as game design is supposed to get. With the entire Kael and removal of maps thingy here I have learned that the height of the floor isn’t really an issue as this house seems to have a very deep cellar. Yep! It can get worse, and it surely will get worse with the current cryptic staff at the helm. Future content will be trivial and easy beyond imagination with players like Kael and @markhawkman soloing it.
    What does any of this drek have to do with Manus? Aren't you one of the people saying Manus didn't require any skill at all?
    At any rate the point behind bringing this up is that Gozer planned for only premade teams to be ABLE to do it. No PUGs, especially not people who don't even know if they're getting a Borg TFO as their random roll of the dice.
    Again!

    It not only worked in 2012 pugs where I learned how to play it, IGA got a lot whole easier due to power creep and lack of elite mode since then, got supported with special gear (Snipe, Shotgun, Tommy, new melee stuff) and remains in the explanation of the tutorial and related Borg arc player do bevor reaching endgame.

    The only reason to remove IGA now is to fully acknowledge that the player-base right along with you and our community manager did not get better over the years but a lot worse at playing STO.

    So much for nitpicking and semantics dude. Be proud! ;)
    YEP! there it is! You saying that the mission is easy, and calling anyone who dislikes it bad at playing the game.

    So what aspect of Manus do you consider a worthy challenge? I mean, the boss and mini-boss usually die in seconds, the rest of the mission is just a matter of killing dozens of Borg. The mission isn't hard, just badly designed, and BORING.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,540 Arc User
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things? Explain why they're GOOD and make the mission better. 'cause all you've not said anything you LIKE about the mission.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • feliseanfelisean Member Posts: 623 Arc User
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things? Explain why they're GOOD and make the mission better. 'cause all you've not said anything you LIKE about the mission.

    all those things are pretty easy to avoid:
    - no checkpoints => dont die (not that difficult, nakuhl shield is awesome)
    - lockouts => stick together with your team
    - instant kills => nakuhl shield and yea taking a bath in warpplasma = bad idea (see star trek : first contact)
    - jump puzzles (beside its not a puzzle its jumping) => just jump from one side to the other (sprint+jump than could help)

    and we're fine for some of those things are not used for NORMAL. but its TRIBBLE ADVANCED. kael as example is not ready for advanced, he should not play that. he's carried basically every time ;)

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,540 Arc User
    felisean wrote: »
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things? Explain why they're GOOD and make the mission better. 'cause all you've not said anything you LIKE about the mission.
    all those things are pretty easy to avoid:
    - no checkpoints => dont die (not that difficult, nakuhl shield is awesome)
    - lockouts => stick together with your team
    - instant kills => nakuhl shield and yea taking a bath in warpplasma = bad idea (see star trek : first contact)
    - jump puzzles (beside its not a puzzle its jumping) => just jump from one side to the other (sprint+jump than could help)

    and we're fine for some of those things are not used for NORMAL. but its TRIBBLE ADVANCED. kael as example is not ready for advanced, he should not play that. he's carried basically every time ;)
    So you like those features because you see them as easy to avoid? How does that make them good level design?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,498 Arc User
    edited October 31
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things?
    felisean wrote: »
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things? Explain why they're GOOD and make the mission better. 'cause all you've not said anything you LIKE about the mission.
    all those things are pretty easy to avoid:
    - no checkpoints => dont die (not that difficult, nakuhl shield is awesome)
    - lockouts => stick together with your team
    - instant kills => nakuhl shield and yea taking a bath in warpplasma = bad idea (see star trek : first contact)
    - jump puzzles (beside its not a puzzle its jumping) => just jump from one side to the other (sprint+jump than could help)

    and we're fine for some of those things are not used for NORMAL. but its TRIBBLE ADVANCED. kael as example is not ready for advanced, he should not play that. he's carried basically every time ;)
    So you like those features because you see them as easy to avoid? How does that make them good level design?
    Those elements are good in my opinion because they force players of a team to learn to contribute at least a tiny bit. This tiny bit is considered to be very easy by me but unfortunately to be too hard already by you and Kael.

    What’s left over when taken out is less than a tiny bit. Now that may be something worth to be soloed by you but it is simply not enough for me as it does not even qualify to be called “game” not to mention a “mmorpg”. ;)
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,540 Arc User
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things?
    felisean wrote: »
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things? Explain why they're GOOD and make the mission better. 'cause all you've not said anything you LIKE about the mission.
    all those things are pretty easy to avoid:
    - no checkpoints => dont die (not that difficult, nakuhl shield is awesome)
    - lockouts => stick together with your team
    - instant kills => nakuhl shield and yea taking a bath in warpplasma = bad idea (see star trek : first contact)
    - jump puzzles (beside its not a puzzle its jumping) => just jump from one side to the other (sprint+jump than could help)

    and we're fine for some of those things are not used for NORMAL. but its TRIBBLE ADVANCED. kael as example is not ready for advanced, he should not play that. he's carried basically every time ;)
    So you like those features because you see them as easy to avoid? How does that make them good level design?
    Those elements are good in my opinion because they force players of a team to learn to contribute at least a tiny bit. ~irrelevent drek removed~
    Um... how? What does any of that have to do with contributing to the mission?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,498 Arc User
    edited October 31
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things?
    felisean wrote: »
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    Feli gave some hints for you in his post:

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things? Explain why they're GOOD and make the mission better. 'cause all you've not said anything you LIKE about the mission.
    all those things are pretty easy to avoid:
    - no checkpoints => dont die (not that difficult, nakuhl shield is awesome)
    - lockouts => stick together with your team
    - instant kills => nakuhl shield and yea taking a bath in warpplasma = bad idea (see star trek : first contact)
    - jump puzzles (beside its not a puzzle its jumping) => just jump from one side to the other (sprint+jump than could help)

    and we're fine for some of those things are not used for NORMAL. but its TRIBBLE ADVANCED. kael as example is not ready for advanced, he should not play that. he's carried basically every time ;)
    So you like those features because you see them as easy to avoid? How does that make them good level design?
    Those elements are good in my opinion because they force players of a team to learn to contribute at least a tiny bit. ~irrelevent drek removed~
    Um... how? What does any of that have to do with contributing to the mission?

    Feli mentioned it in his post. Got it or need me to highlight it for you?
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 319 Arc User
    edited October 31
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things?
    felisean wrote: »
    Short version: it wasn't removed for being too hard.
    The shortversion is that it was EXACTLY removed because it was TOO DIFFICULT for today’s player to be handled.

    Feli gave some hints for you in his post:

    In the “long” version Kael elaborates that IGA was removed from the RTFO system because it has
    - No checkpoints
    - Lockouts
    - Instant kills
    - Jump puzzles
    And why do you like ANY of those things? Explain why they're GOOD and make the mission better. 'cause all you've not said anything you LIKE about the mission.
    all those things are pretty easy to avoid:
    - no checkpoints => dont die (not that difficult, nakuhl shield is awesome)
    - lockouts => stick together with your team
    - instant kills => nakuhl shield and yea taking a bath in warpplasma = bad idea (see star trek : first contact)
    - jump puzzles (beside its not a puzzle its jumping) => just jump from one side to the other (sprint+jump than could help)

    and we're fine for some of those things are not used for NORMAL. but its TRIBBLE ADVANCED. kael as example is not ready for advanced, he should not play that. he's carried basically every time ;)
    So you like those features because you see them as easy to avoid? How does that make them good level design?
    Those elements are good in my opinion because they force players of a team to learn to contribute at least a tiny bit. ~irrelevent drek removed~
    Um... how? What does any of that have to do with contributing to the mission?

    Feli mentioned it in his post. Got it or need me to highlight it for you?

    Apparently, he needs that, yep. We're finally vindicated, Pete! We're no longer then ones that need to read and/or listen to something!

    What some people in this thread doesn't seem to be able to grasp - same as Kael and whoever else of the powers that be that thinks the same way - is what we've been trying to saying from page 1: there are 3 different difficulty levels. Logic suggest, then, that each level is more difficult that the one that comes before it. So, no fail conditions, more respawn points, no lockouts, no insta-death? All good and well for normal, though that's excessive because then you go to advanced and you have no way of preparing for that. Arguably, I'd like to have more respawn points in Advanced, too, but that's just because I'm lazy af sometimes and I don't fancy running back to the team all the way from the transporter room.
    TL;DR
    3 difficulty levels, each one increasing in difficulty:
    - normal = easy peasy, but NOT auto-win (never auto-win!);
    - advanced = less respawn points (but more than what we have now), higher dmg from enemies, more hp to enemies, no bridges in the final room, team work required;
    - elite = even less respwan points, dmg from enemies and hp to enemies, no bridges whatsoever, fail condition (if the entire team dies, for example), team work mandatory;
    This is for Manus and it's just an example of how a progression could work.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,646 Community Moderator
    Ok, this is really going nowhere but in circles again, and people have resorted to attacks again, so we're closing this. An official explanation was given for its removal, and it's fairly obvious that they're not going to change it back. We don't have to like it, but the forum is moving on. /Thread
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