Yeah getting a high score in Disco requires you to know what you're doing and how to avoid the annoyance of dealing with enemies. Yes, AVOID shooting the enemies! Mind blowing eh?
yea borg disconnected.. one of the most dangerous queues. you launch some pets for stage 1 and let them have fun with the borg (yay for pets) and hammer your poor interact button (usualy f). in stage 2+3 you just let them fight with each other and hammer the poor poor interact button (i'm sooo sry f button).
NOOB! :P But seriously, don't use pets. Pilot(for the enhanced attack patterns), or some other reliable source of temp HP gives you near immunity to being interrupted when doing interacts. So you don't need to kill the Borg at all. In fact, it's counter productive since it starts with two probes who do about as much damage as a pair of tribbles, and spawns worse stuff if you kill them. It's easy to ignore a pair of probes plinking at you. But if you have pets attacking them they'll eventually die, and then you have bigger things to worry about.
And yes, yes I have soloed a lane on Advanced. It takes strategic thinking that goes beyond "activate max DPS macro!"
Bah, just equip Hidden Payload and you'll never even get shot.
But nobody needs to solo a lane in BDA in the first place, since they removed the minimum rescued ships requirement.
Has there been any official word on which day the livestream is being broadcast from Birmingham yet? Have checked Facebook, twitter, Reddit and the forums but havent been able to find anything.
Then again, been so tired the last couple of days i could have missed it completely
Make sure you get your rest and hydrate, @foxman00 . Health should not be compromised in exchange for a livestream.
And yes, yes I have soloed a lane on Advanced. It takes strategic thinking that goes beyond "activate max DPS macro!"
Now with the un-pleasantries of IGA out of your way you can’t help but sticking with the topic. You even use opportunities to gloat now that you not only get stuff done straight without any DPS but also show pride that you can entierly solo things. Of course it does not mean anything in the presented case as the different critters attack each other on that map so nobody cares how you deal with them as they deal with themselves. Of course you could use that easy going to familiarize yourself with mild aspects of team play there as in +/- thread mechanics but no, doing stuff entirely on your own seems to be all the better for you.
Do you even know how to play BDA?
You have 5 players split 3 ways(assuming you actually man all three lanes), so either the people shooting Borg need to periodically rotate, or someone has to solo a lane. So yes, soloing a lane is being a team player.
How do you think +/- threat applies here, because quite frankly unless I'm missing something it only applies if you're doing something to apply it to the enemy... and also you need other players around to use it properly.
N-depended of any in game progression you have achieved (Build/DPS)
Actually..... Your build matters a lot if you're trying to solo a lane since you can't fully avoid having things shoot at you. Also that thing I mentioned about two borg probes with the DPS of angry tribbles only applies to phase 1. The Undine kill them pretty quick in phase 2. After that point you have to make an actual effort to turtle since you can't rely on the enemies fighting each other. Yes, as long as you don't attack they will fight each other MORE than you, but they won't fully ignore you and you never know when a battleship might shoot you simply because you're the only thing in aggro range.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
or like mentioned above, you can use hidden payload and avoid all that
That's a different means to the same end, but it requires you to plan ahead and strategize, and use a build that has it. My favorite setup uses Hazard Emitters, Aux2SIF, Attack Pattern Beta(with improved attack patterns for temp HP) and EPtS(since temp HP doesn't last long when taking damage direct to hull)
or like mentioned above, you can use hidden payload and avoid all that
That's a different means to the same end, but it requires you to plan ahead and strategize, and use a build that has it. My favorite setup uses Hazard Emitters, Aux2SIF, Attack Pattern Beta(with improved attack patterns for temp HP) and EPtS(since temp HP doesn't last long when taking damage direct to hull)
or you use the new hull image something console with a few strong heals. should solve all temphp issues without a problem.
or you just kill those dudes on advanced with 1-2 fire cycle, interact with the ships
i mean its just for stage 1, for stage 2-3 they defnitly fight each other and its absolutly no problem at all ^^
I usualy play Borg Disco elite but fortunately yea, I know how to play it so I can skip any attempts of yours to elaborate in detail how you tend to it. The map poses no problems aside from being very boring. Only the DPS check at the end needs some consideration.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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or like mentioned above, you can use hidden payload and avoid all that
That's a different means to the same end, but it requires you to plan ahead and strategize, and use a build that has it. My favorite setup uses Hazard Emitters, Aux2SIF, Attack Pattern Beta(with improved attack patterns for temp HP) and EPtS(since temp HP doesn't last long when taking damage direct to hull)
And yet the Super Mario Bros. jumping blocks in Manus are too "hard" for you to adapt, improvise, and overcome. It's not even a puzzle.
or like mentioned above, you can use hidden payload and avoid all that
That's a different means to the same end, but it requires you to plan ahead and strategize, and use a build that has it. My favorite setup uses Hazard Emitters, Aux2SIF, Attack Pattern Beta(with improved attack patterns for temp HP) and EPtS(since temp HP doesn't last long when taking damage direct to hull)
And yet the Super Mario Bros. jumping blocks in Manus are too "hard" for you to adapt, improvise, and overcome. It's not even a puzzle.
Which brings us back again to the same old conclusion that the challenges in Manus are "too hard" because players actually have to adapt, improvise and overcome them themselves vs BDA in which doing so is completely optional and the mission wins itself on schedule no matter what.
I’m curious. I don’t play other games, the past few years since STO I mean. Only one or two and I found them to be a lot harder but in general:
Is it considered “normal” that the general difficulty in games, the tasks that need to be fulfilled get more and more easy or is it just a STO thingy? I mean IGA out of the rtfo system... all new maps are designed in a way that interaction is purely voluntary.
Also a buddy of mine felt free to point out how long it takes by now to even get a selected map filled with rtfo players to start and he is right. Whatever you select from the maps that are supported, it takes longer and longer and longer for them to start.
So is this a result of desperation by the devs perhaps. Nobody plays PvE anymore so content is need to be made in a way that plays by itself?
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or like mentioned above, you can use hidden payload and avoid all that
That's a different means to the same end, but it requires you to plan ahead and strategize, and use a build that has it. My favorite setup uses Hazard Emitters, Aux2SIF, Attack Pattern Beta(with improved attack patterns for temp HP) and EPtS(since temp HP doesn't last long when taking damage direct to hull)
And yet the Super Mario Bros. jumping blocks in Manus are too "hard" for you to adapt, improvise, and overcome. It's not even a puzzle.
Which brings us back again to the same old conclusion that the challenges in Manus are "too hard" because players actually have to adapt, improvise and overcome them themselves vs BDA in which doing so is completely optional and the mission wins itself on schedule no matter what.
The real difference is that if I die due to a lag spike in BDA the map doesn't reset and force the entire team to start over. No amount of player skill can compensate for lag shoving you into the warp coolant. And usually you end up with a reset. Sure it's technically possible to continue, but it usually doesn't work.
Is it considered “normal” that the general difficulty in games, the tasks that need to be fulfilled get more and more easy or is it just a STO thingy? I mean IGA out of the rtfo system... all new maps are designed in a way that interaction is purely voluntary.
that's one way of looking at it. Another is that it's designed so the players can't sabotage the run. You've been around long enough to remember the rage threads about people sabotaging ISA by pushing probes towards the transformers.. right? Or are you too new for that?
or like mentioned above, you can use hidden payload and avoid all that
That's a different means to the same end, but it requires you to plan ahead and strategize, and use a build that has it. My favorite setup uses Hazard Emitters, Aux2SIF, Attack Pattern Beta(with improved attack patterns for temp HP) and EPtS(since temp HP doesn't last long when taking damage direct to hull)
And yet the Super Mario Bros. jumping blocks in Manus are too "hard" for you to adapt, improvise, and overcome. It's not even a puzzle.
Which brings us back again to the same old conclusion that the challenges in Manus are "too hard" because players actually have to adapt, improvise and overcome them themselves vs BDA in which doing so is completely optional and the mission wins itself on schedule no matter what.
The real difference is that if I die due to a lag spike in BDA the map doesn't reset and force the entire team to start over. No amount of player skill can compensate for lag shoving you into the warp coolant. And usually you end up with a reset. Sure it's technically possible to continue, but it usually doesn't work.
Is it considered “normal” that the general difficulty in games, the tasks that need to be fulfilled get more and more easy or is it just a STO thingy? I mean IGA out of the rtfo system... all new maps are designed in a way that interaction is purely voluntary.
that's one way of looking at it. Another is that it's designed so the players can't sabotage the run. You've been around long enough to remember the rage threads about people sabotaging ISA by pushing probes towards the transformers.. right? Or are you too new for that?
Yep but looking at it that way is pushing sto's PvE to become a singlplayer game at which point I'd loose interest in it. Thats why I dont look at it that way. If the price to pay to make multiplayer maps idiot proof means no multiplayer at all we can stop calling this an mmorpg.
Perhaps I should re-phrase my question a bit better for you to understand. Do other multiplayer games take away their multiplayer elements as well in order to remain playable for player nowadays, or is this just required in STO due to the decreased intelligence, social behaivior and skill level of the avarage player around here??
Players got trolled in IGA since ever. I'm around long enough for it. Players survived that for almost a decade now but not Kael, is that what you try to explain here?
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Yep but looking at it that way is pushing sto's PvE to become a singlplayer game at which point I'd loose interest in it. Thats why I dont look at it that way. If the price to pay to make multiplayer maps idiot proof means no multiplayer at all we can stop calling this an mmorpg.
Uh, when you have 5 players doing the mission then no it's not single player anything.
Perhaps I should re-phrase my question a bit better for you to understand. Do other multiplayer games take away their multiplayer elements as well in order to remain playable for player nowadays, or is this just required in STO due to the decreased intelligence, social behaivior and skill level of the avarage player around here??
I used to play Diablo 2(this was back before 2010). The Diablo devs decided to scrap the game and make a Diablo 3 instead of releasing a second expansion for it. Why? because the game was an utter trollfest in open online play. You could be playing with a friend doing story missions and get ganked by a PvPer who just felt like killing people at random. Worst is that they'd get your money and maybe even gear for doing it. The devs learned just how horrible people can be in ways most gamers don't want to admit exist. It's not that the players changed, it's that the devs got tired of seeing people troll the rest of the player base.
Players got trolled in IGA since ever. I'm around long enough for it. Players survived that for almost a decade now but not Kael, is that what you try to explain here?
Did you even read what I said? I was talking about the SPACE map and how people would troll it by intentionally making the objectives fail? Players sabotaging PUGs of ISA and KASA is one of the reasons the devs decided having advanced queues fail was a bad idea. That decision came along way before they even hired Kael.
I’m curious. I don’t play other games, the past few years since STO I mean. Only one or two and I found them to be a lot harder but in general:
Is it considered “normal” that the general difficulty in games, the tasks that need to be fulfilled get more and more easy or is it just a STO thingy? I mean IGA out of the rtfo system... all new maps are designed in a way that interaction is purely voluntary.
It's just STO. I mean sure, some games are easier than others, but STO is the only one I've seen in which supposedly "endgame" content actually goes as far as to win itself.
Perhaps I should re-phrase my question a bit better for you to understand. Do other multiplayer games take away their multiplayer elements as well in order to remain playable for player nowadays, or is this just required in STO due to the decreased intelligence, social behaivior and skill level of the avarage player around here??
STO is certainly not the only game to make multiplayer content playable alone. But it is the only game, that I know of, that does that and still demands players wait for a full team to start the content even though a team isn't needed to play it.
I used to play Diablo 2(this was back before 2010). The Diablo devs decided to scrap the game and make a Diablo 3 instead of releasing a second expansion for it. Why?
Because 90's style sprite graphics just doesn't sell anymore in the 21st century.
Players got trolled in IGA since ever. I'm around long enough for it. Players survived that for almost a decade now but not Kael, is that what you try to explain here?
Did you even read what I said? I was talking about the SPACE map and how people would troll it by intentionally making the objectives fail? Players sabotaging PUGs of ISA and KASA is one of the reasons the devs decided having advanced queues fail was a bad idea. That decision came along way before they even hired Kael.
Having Advanced queues fail was a great idea. Blindly elevating objectives designed as trivial brownie point optionals into fail conditions instead of creating new ones that would make sense was a bad idea.
And removing all fail conditions from all queues because a few players abused one or two poorly-designed ones was an even worse idea.
tell that to all those companies remastering old sprite-based games - they wouldn't waste the money if they didn't think they'd be getting even more back
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Yea just not ready yet for lowering the level below IGA. KASA and ISA probe/sphere soccer has not been an issue since players broke 20k DPS. If you dislike sombody doing it, stop being bad and just kill the critters.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I’m curious. I don’t play other games, the past few years since STO I mean. Only one or two and I found them to be a lot harder but in general:
Is it considered “normal” that the general difficulty in games, the tasks that need to be fulfilled get more and more easy or is it just a STO thingy? I mean IGA out of the rtfo system... all new maps are designed in a way that interaction is purely voluntary.
It's just STO. I mean sure, some games are easier than others, but STO is the only one I've seen in which supposedly "endgame" content actually goes as far as to win itself.
Perhaps I should re-phrase my question a bit better for you to understand. Do other multiplayer games take away their multiplayer elements as well in order to remain playable for player nowadays, or is this just required in STO due to the decreased intelligence, social behaivior and skill level of the avarage player around here??
STO is certainly not the only game to make multiplayer content playable alone. But it is the only game, that I know of, that does that and still demands players wait for a full team to start the content even though a team isn't needed to play it.
Hm oki. Thanks for input. Just wondering at what point it will end. Things to do for a PvE team matter less and less (if at all anymore) and some around just don't seem to get it, nor to mind. Then they go "I soloed a lane in borg disco"... As if it would be some sort of accomplishment.
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Yea just not ready yet for lowering the level below IGA. KASA and ISA probe/sphere soccer has not been an issue since players broke 20k DPS. If you dislike sombody doing it, stop being bad and just kill the critters.
In other words... no, you didn't. At the time those fail conditions got removed, it was actually quite hard to prevent a troll from doing that in a PUG. You basically needed to be able to solo one side in KASA, and kill the probes pretty much as soon as they spawn.
Having Advanced queues fail was a great idea. Blindly elevating objectives designed as trivial brownie point optionals into fail conditions instead of creating new ones that would make sense was a bad idea.
And removing all fail conditions from all queues because a few players abused one or two poorly-designed ones was an even worse idea.
Unh, huh.... so which maps actually had fail conditions that worked properly and made sense? You want to say they were a good idea, well, surely there must be more examples of good ones than bad ones right?
tell that to all those companies remastering old sprite-based games - they wouldn't waste the money if they didn't think they'd be getting even more back
People still make NEW pixel-art based games! D2 was basically taking 2-d graphics so far that you're making a 3-d world out of 2-d art that doesn't have 3-d geo. It relied on a fixed perspective to make it so players could never see that all the character models were basically moving cardboard standees. It also had some really weird optical illusions built into level designs to make it less obvious that it's all actually flat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHZOTQSWemI
What? I used to mod D2x. I know a LOT about that game.
yes, i remember being impressed on seeing the arcane sanctuary...and far less impressed with its narrow stairways which made any pet-heavy class a TRIBBLE to maneuver around in, especially when you have vampires hurling fireballs at you unmolested while you're TRYING to get to them - the maggot lair had the same issue, but at least there most enemy ranged attacks were blocked by your minions before they could get to you
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Having Advanced queues fail was a great idea. Blindly elevating objectives designed as trivial brownie point optionals into fail conditions instead of creating new ones that would make sense was a bad idea.
And removing all fail conditions from all queues because a few players abused one or two poorly-designed ones was an even worse idea.
Unh, huh.... so which maps actually had fail conditions that worked properly and made sense? You want to say they were a good idea, well, surely there must be more examples of good ones than bad ones right?
Everything that was actually designed as a fail condition (that is, content released with and after Delta Rising) was good for gameplay and most of them made logical sense as well.
Most of the uplifted ones were okay, too. Undine Infiltration's stupid question puzzle was the only really bad one. Pushing the nanite spheres into the transformer in ISA could be prevented simply by making them immune to push/pull abilities, but honestly it's a silly objective anyway so might as well keep it optional and use only the timer for the fail. KSA probes I'd definitely have just made unpushable, the fail condition was good. Not that I ever saw any probe-pushing anyway. Did Azure have the thing were it wouldn't spawn enough ships to hit the quota back then? Easily fixed, that, spawn more ships or require less. Everything else was fine IIRC.
Seriously, I’m reading your posts even though I’m considering not to because they literary frighten me. Hehe, still I do. The problem between us is not a matter of reading but rather of comprehending what you are trying to explain or justify or rationalize or whatever. It’s clearly on me that don’t seem to comprehend what you write.
It’s almost as if we play different games or at least the same game on different difficulty settings. Still this can’t be the case ether as you clearly use the terms igA isA and kasA leading me to believe we play the very same. I percept it all entirely differently though.
At the time those fail conditions got removed, it was actually quite hard to prevent a troll from doing that in a PUG. You basically needed to be able to solo one side in KASA, and kill the probes pretty much as soon as they spawn.
That’s a good example because… you know… I was and so were countless others. I do not expect everybody to be able to do such stuff but if somebody finds it troublesome that probes get pushed into the vortex I at least expect them to learn and to get better and do eventually something about it. At the current state of powercreep its a joke on advanced nowadays.
I got it that you see things differently on topic as it is your expectancy to have the DEVs act every time you, somebody like you and/or Kael can’t handle stuff to simply dummy down the quality of gameplay. It is just verry bad for those who like the gameplay as it is/was befor it got dumb.
The only curiosity I have left in your case is at what point will you stop? Is it really that bad that you need content that you can conclude entirely on your own and where everything is so irrelevant that it does not matter what your team-mates do? I mean the game is still called Star Trek ONLINE. This should count for something.
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The only curiosity I have left in your case is at what point will you stop? Is it really that bad that you need content that you can conclude entirely on your own and where everything is so irrelevant that it does not matter what your team-mates do? I mean the game is still called Star Trek ONLINE. This should count for something.
At this point - ok, let's be real, since page 1 of this thread - I think it's obvious that, unfortunately, for some people it doesn't.
Online, MMORPG, co-op, team-work are all terms that are going out of fashion almost quicker than you can say them.
Post edited by jennycolvin on
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
@markhawkman
i would agree for a lot of things you're saying for NORMAL difficulty. but we're talking about ADVANCED.
with your ideas you basically want the advanced difficulty to be like normal. in that case, just remove the normal version because it does not serve any purpose in the game anymore.
if we have 3 difficulties, a difference and higher difficulty for higher difficulty levels is just natural. for a higher difficulty you SHOULD be able to handle more than 1 thing at the same time.
for infected:manus ground normal as example, there is no jumping involved, because there are bridges available. so no bridges is basically the increased difficulty (in addition to stronger (=> doing more damage, could take more damage) enemies).
if you want it easy, play normal. if you dont want it that easy so more difficult play advanced. if you cant handle advanced, dont play advanced
Having Advanced queues fail was a great idea. Blindly elevating objectives designed as trivial brownie point optionals into fail conditions instead of creating new ones that would make sense was a bad idea.
And removing all fail conditions from all queues because a few players abused one or two poorly-designed ones was an even worse idea.
Unh, huh.... so which maps actually had fail conditions that worked properly and made sense? You want to say they were a good idea, well, surely there must be more examples of good ones than bad ones right?
Everything that was actually designed as a fail condition (that is, content released with and after Delta Rising) was good for gameplay and most of them made logical sense as well.
Most of the uplifted ones were okay, too. Undine Infiltration's stupid question puzzle was the only really bad one. Pushing the nanite spheres into the transformer in ISA could be prevented simply by making them immune to push/pull abilities, but honestly it's a silly objective anyway so might as well keep it optional and use only the timer for the fail. KSA probes I'd definitely have just made unpushable, the fail condition was good. Not that I ever saw any probe-pushing anyway. Did Azure have the thing were it wouldn't spawn enough ships to hit the quota back then? Easily fixed, that, spawn more ships or require less. Everything else was fine IIRC.
IIRC the only fail conditions not designed as fail conditions that got "elevated" were from queued content that predated Delta Rising. Yeah DR got griped about a lot not because players have a unified opinion, no, it's because it changed a LOT of stuff. IIRC it's when "Advanced" became a thing and with it changing how TFO objectives worked.
Mirror Invasion Advanced was, for a time, one of the hardest missions in the game. In part because of the way NPC HP scaled, but also in part because Vauthil could explode and then you'd fail. And shortly after DR that was a 14-day grind event. Yeah, I stuck with Normal for that round of it. Doing a daily on however many characters is no fun if it fails like that.
Conceptually I liked the fail condition in UI. You fail if you start a riot by falsely imprisoning people or by failing to catch the infiltrators. I did it so many times when I was a new player that I can remember some of them just by thinking about the mission. Realistically it was a simple logical deduction. For example one of them the infiltrator will tell you "the fire caves are closed", but if you looked around the room the actual Bajoran who lived there has a postcard from visiting there.
Problems? PUGs would always have a chance of getting a guy who mashed dialog without reading, thus getting it wrong mainly due to carelessness. But also sometimes the game would seemingly mash buttons for you. I think it's sometimes a lag artifact. But if you accidentally double click a dialog button, it registers the second click on the next dialog window.
Having Advanced queues fail was a great idea. Blindly elevating objectives designed as trivial brownie point optionals into fail conditions instead of creating new ones that would make sense was a bad idea.
And removing all fail conditions from all queues because a few players abused one or two poorly-designed ones was an even worse idea.
Unh, huh.... so which maps actually had fail conditions that worked properly and made sense? You want to say they were a good idea, well, surely there must be more examples of good ones than bad ones right?
Everything that was actually designed as a fail condition (that is, content released with and after Delta Rising) was good for gameplay and most of them made logical sense as well.
Most of the uplifted ones were okay, too. Undine Infiltration's stupid question puzzle was the only really bad one. Pushing the nanite spheres into the transformer in ISA could be prevented simply by making them immune to push/pull abilities, but honestly it's a silly objective anyway so might as well keep it optional and use only the timer for the fail. KSA probes I'd definitely have just made unpushable, the fail condition was good. Not that I ever saw any probe-pushing anyway. Did Azure have the thing were it wouldn't spawn enough ships to hit the quota back then? Easily fixed, that, spawn more ships or require less. Everything else was fine IIRC.
IIRC the only fail conditions not designed as fail conditions that got "elevated" were from queued content that predated Delta Rising. Yeah DR got griped about a lot not because players have a unified opinion, no, it's because it changed a LOT of stuff. IIRC it's when "Advanced" became a thing and with it changing how TFO objectives worked.
People will always complain about everything that changes, including nothing. That's not a reason not to change things.
What Delta Rising really needed was for Cryptic to tell the people who couldn't win Advanced that they should play Normal until they improve their skills and/or gear. That's the point of having difficulty levels, to give players with different capabilities each an appropriate challenge that they can handle.
Mirror Invasion Advanced was, for a time, one of the hardest missions in the game. In part because of the way NPC HP scaled, but also in part because Vauthil could explode and then you'd fail. And shortly after DR that was a 14-day grind event. Yeah, I stuck with Normal for that round of it. Doing a daily on however many characters is no fun if it fails like that.
Yeah, it really was. It would've been great if they'd given us a reason to play it. Ie a unique reward. Because it dropped the exact same token as the Normal version, doing things the hard way seemed like a wasted effort.
@markhawkman
i would agree for a lot of things you're saying for NORMAL difficulty. but we're talking about ADVANCED.
with your ideas you basically want the advanced difficulty to be like normal. in that case, just remove the normal version because it does not serve any purpose in the game anymore.
if we have 3 difficulties, a difference and higher difficulty for higher difficulty levels is just natural. for a higher difficulty you SHOULD be able to handle more than 1 thing at the same time.
for infected:manus ground normal as example, there is no jumping involved, because there are bridges available. so no bridges is basically the increased difficulty (in addition to stronger (=> doing more damage, could take more damage) enemies).
if you want it easy, play normal. if you dont want it that easy so more difficult play advanced. if you cant handle advanced, dont play advanced
For people who aren't Elite DPSers, killing enemies is actually part of the mission. Normal queues have pathetically easy enemies because they're balanced under the assumption that people who suck(by my standards) play them. Advanced has noticeably harder to kill enemies. So it is genuinely harder even if it's what you, as an elite DPSer, considers a low bar.
It’s almost as if we play different games or at least the same game on different difficulty settings. Still this can’t be the case ether as you clearly use the terms igA isA and kasA leading me to believe we play the very same. I percept it all entirely differently though.
That or I don't expect the devs to make the game harder just because I find it easy. Which is why I find comments like this to be super dumb:
I got it that you see things differently on topic as it is your expectancy to have the DEVs act every time you, somebody like you and/or Kael can’t handle stuff to simply dummy down the quality of gameplay. It is just verry bad for those who like the gameplay as it is/was befor it got dumb.
Jesse Heinig is the person to make the decision, not me. I didn't even request this.
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But nobody needs to solo a lane in BDA in the first place, since they removed the minimum rescued ships requirement.
Make sure you get your rest and hydrate, @foxman00 . Health should not be compromised in exchange for a livestream.
You have 5 players split 3 ways(assuming you actually man all three lanes), so either the people shooting Borg need to periodically rotate, or someone has to solo a lane. So yes, soloing a lane is being a team player.
How do you think +/- threat applies here, because quite frankly unless I'm missing something it only applies if you're doing something to apply it to the enemy... and also you need other players around to use it properly. Actually..... Your build matters a lot if you're trying to solo a lane since you can't fully avoid having things shoot at you. Also that thing I mentioned about two borg probes with the DPS of angry tribbles only applies to phase 1. The Undine kill them pretty quick in phase 2. After that point you have to make an actual effort to turtle since you can't rely on the enemies fighting each other. Yes, as long as you don't attack they will fight each other MORE than you, but they won't fully ignore you and you never know when a battleship might shoot you simply because you're the only thing in aggro range.
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
or you use the new hull image something console with a few strong heals. should solve all temphp issues without a problem.
or you just kill those dudes on advanced with 1-2 fire cycle, interact with the ships
i mean its just for stage 1, for stage 2-3 they defnitly fight each other and its absolutly no problem at all ^^
ingame: @Felisean
I usualy play Borg Disco elite but fortunately yea, I know how to play it so I can skip any attempts of yours to elaborate in detail how you tend to it. The map poses no problems aside from being very boring. Only the DPS check at the end needs some consideration.
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And yet the Super Mario Bros. jumping blocks in Manus are too "hard" for you to adapt, improvise, and overcome. It's not even a puzzle.
Is it considered “normal” that the general difficulty in games, the tasks that need to be fulfilled get more and more easy or is it just a STO thingy? I mean IGA out of the rtfo system... all new maps are designed in a way that interaction is purely voluntary.
Also a buddy of mine felt free to point out how long it takes by now to even get a selected map filled with rtfo players to start and he is right. Whatever you select from the maps that are supported, it takes longer and longer and longer for them to start.
So is this a result of desperation by the devs perhaps. Nobody plays PvE anymore so content is need to be made in a way that plays by itself?
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The real difference is that if I die due to a lag spike in BDA the map doesn't reset and force the entire team to start over. No amount of player skill can compensate for lag shoving you into the warp coolant. And usually you end up with a reset. Sure it's technically possible to continue, but it usually doesn't work. that's one way of looking at it. Another is that it's designed so the players can't sabotage the run. You've been around long enough to remember the rage threads about people sabotaging ISA by pushing probes towards the transformers.. right? Or are you too new for that?
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Yep but looking at it that way is pushing sto's PvE to become a singlplayer game at which point I'd loose interest in it. Thats why I dont look at it that way. If the price to pay to make multiplayer maps idiot proof means no multiplayer at all we can stop calling this an mmorpg.
Perhaps I should re-phrase my question a bit better for you to understand. Do other multiplayer games take away their multiplayer elements as well in order to remain playable for player nowadays, or is this just required in STO due to the decreased intelligence, social behaivior and skill level of the avarage player around here??
Players got trolled in IGA since ever. I'm around long enough for it. Players survived that for almost a decade now but not Kael, is that what you try to explain here?
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STO is certainly not the only game to make multiplayer content playable alone. But it is the only game, that I know of, that does that and still demands players wait for a full team to start the content even though a team isn't needed to play it.
Because 90's style sprite graphics just doesn't sell anymore in the 21st century.
Having Advanced queues fail was a great idea. Blindly elevating objectives designed as trivial brownie point optionals into fail conditions instead of creating new ones that would make sense was a bad idea.
And removing all fail conditions from all queues because a few players abused one or two poorly-designed ones was an even worse idea.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yea just not ready yet for lowering the level below IGA. KASA and ISA probe/sphere soccer has not been an issue since players broke 20k DPS. If you dislike sombody doing it, stop being bad and just kill the critters.
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Hm oki. Thanks for input. Just wondering at what point it will end. Things to do for a PvE team matter less and less (if at all anymore) and some around just don't seem to get it, nor to mind. Then they go "I soloed a lane in borg disco"... As if it would be some sort of accomplishment.
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What? I used to mod D2x. I know a LOT about that game.
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Most of the uplifted ones were okay, too. Undine Infiltration's stupid question puzzle was the only really bad one. Pushing the nanite spheres into the transformer in ISA could be prevented simply by making them immune to push/pull abilities, but honestly it's a silly objective anyway so might as well keep it optional and use only the timer for the fail. KSA probes I'd definitely have just made unpushable, the fail condition was good. Not that I ever saw any probe-pushing anyway. Did Azure have the thing were it wouldn't spawn enough ships to hit the quota back then? Easily fixed, that, spawn more ships or require less. Everything else was fine IIRC.
Though, part of me as i have said before doesnt have a hope my question will be answered on stream
It’s almost as if we play different games or at least the same game on different difficulty settings. Still this can’t be the case ether as you clearly use the terms igA isA and kasA leading me to believe we play the very same. I percept it all entirely differently though.
That’s a good example because… you know… I was and so were countless others. I do not expect everybody to be able to do such stuff but if somebody finds it troublesome that probes get pushed into the vortex I at least expect them to learn and to get better and do eventually something about it. At the current state of powercreep its a joke on advanced nowadays.
I got it that you see things differently on topic as it is your expectancy to have the DEVs act every time you, somebody like you and/or Kael can’t handle stuff to simply dummy down the quality of gameplay. It is just verry bad for those who like the gameplay as it is/was befor it got dumb.
The only curiosity I have left in your case is at what point will you stop? Is it really that bad that you need content that you can conclude entirely on your own and where everything is so irrelevant that it does not matter what your team-mates do? I mean the game is still called Star Trek ONLINE. This should count for something.
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At this point - ok, let's be real, since page 1 of this thread - I think it's obvious that, unfortunately, for some people it doesn't.
Online, MMORPG, co-op, team-work are all terms that are going out of fashion almost quicker than you can say them.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
i would agree for a lot of things you're saying for NORMAL difficulty. but we're talking about ADVANCED.
with your ideas you basically want the advanced difficulty to be like normal. in that case, just remove the normal version because it does not serve any purpose in the game anymore.
if we have 3 difficulties, a difference and higher difficulty for higher difficulty levels is just natural. for a higher difficulty you SHOULD be able to handle more than 1 thing at the same time.
for infected:manus ground normal as example, there is no jumping involved, because there are bridges available. so no bridges is basically the increased difficulty (in addition to stronger (=> doing more damage, could take more damage) enemies).
if you want it easy, play normal. if you dont want it that easy so more difficult play advanced. if you cant handle advanced, dont play advanced
ingame: @Felisean
Mirror Invasion Advanced was, for a time, one of the hardest missions in the game. In part because of the way NPC HP scaled, but also in part because Vauthil could explode and then you'd fail. And shortly after DR that was a 14-day grind event. Yeah, I stuck with Normal for that round of it. Doing a daily on however many characters is no fun if it fails like that.
Conceptually I liked the fail condition in UI. You fail if you start a riot by falsely imprisoning people or by failing to catch the infiltrators. I did it so many times when I was a new player that I can remember some of them just by thinking about the mission. Realistically it was a simple logical deduction. For example one of them the infiltrator will tell you "the fire caves are closed", but if you looked around the room the actual Bajoran who lived there has a postcard from visiting there.
Problems? PUGs would always have a chance of getting a guy who mashed dialog without reading, thus getting it wrong mainly due to carelessness. But also sometimes the game would seemingly mash buttons for you. I think it's sometimes a lag artifact. But if you accidentally double click a dialog button, it registers the second click on the next dialog window.
My character Tsin'xing
What Delta Rising really needed was for Cryptic to tell the people who couldn't win Advanced that they should play Normal until they improve their skills and/or gear. That's the point of having difficulty levels, to give players with different capabilities each an appropriate challenge that they can handle.
Yeah, it really was. It would've been great if they'd given us a reason to play it. Ie a unique reward. Because it dropped the exact same token as the Normal version, doing things the hard way seemed like a wasted effort.
My character Tsin'xing
Jesus! KASA probes!!! *cries*
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My character Tsin'xing