could you PLEASE stop that? we already told you several times now that in starbase 1 elite you could get the EXACT SAME amount for afking it or playing it. so your claim is just 100% false
Actually this is 100% false as you mark reward will go down depending on how many transports you fail to save. As was pointed out earlier.
ok, check this video (german language involved again)
starbase 1 elite is the first one played. a bit shooting at the beginning was just to avoid afk penalitys
(we do not recommend following that playstyle! this is just a possibility study!)
That is the new golden standard they are talking about minimum effort for maximum reward.
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This happened because the devs decided to do it based on what they perceive as low quality work and they simply don't want it showcased in the RTFOs. So, please, stop attacking one another for your differences of opinion. Thank you.
This happened because Kael was incapable of playing advanced and who ever else was on there. If you watched the video you know exactly why it happened. The sad part is KAEL showed us about 80% + of the playerbase i encounter everyday in these random tfo's. The people here complaing that it was taken off are the few left who actually want some sort of a challenge as you can see in the video posted above, the rest of the stuff is more or less braindead afk tfo's. Not sure what todays standard is for Cryptic but it used to be up there now its down below.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
We've been called elitists because we want a challenge, because we don't feel that having something that actually requires team work is bad, for the game or for the players.
It's pretty natural to think someone an elitist, when their stance is "everything is too easy and has no actual challenge to any of it". If that's the position you start a debate from, people are gonna think you're either insane or an elitist.
We've been called elitists because we want a challenge, because we don't feel that having something that actually requires team work is bad, for the game or for the players.
It's pretty natural to think someone an elitist, when their stance is "everything is too easy and has no actual challenge to any of it". If that's the position you start a debate from, people are gonna think you're either insane or an elitist.
As we basically placed the skill limbo rod above the ceiling here with jumping and pushing buttons in IGA I dont think that being called an elitists is any sort of a problem for anybody involved anymore.
I mean its not even remotely DPS elitism, just basic functionality elitism so I for my part take it as a compliment and even think its kida cute.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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The only problem I really have with it is that the dreadnought stage at the end is horribly scaled in terms of how much HP they have, and how much time you have to kill them.
Yea perhaps they could re-make it in a way that killing the dreads at the end is purely voluntary?
Something like you can kill em in 3 minutes if you want but if you dont do it they just warp out and the map completes. It would make the whole thing more in line with the rest of it. More suitable for random groups too.
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As awfully made as they are, and as much as they fail at being such, the Borg TFOs are still the closest thing to a raid level STO ever had. You don't drop PUGs into raids, nor where the Borg TFOs ever really designed for PUGs. So having them in a list where they can be PUGed is a dumb design move.
Only really Borg Disconnected should be in the random list. Of the Borg TFOs that is.
No that's not right. They aren't even close to raid content from any other game. The complicated thing you have to do in IGA is pressing your interact button at the same time as other people, which is very conveniently easily done with the audio cue from the first person to click. Then someone presses interact again to upload the virus. If you can do it once, you can do it 4 times. It's extremely easy.
I'd happily grant that because the STF is so old and different than others, it isn't obvious, easy to notice, or even explained well, and I have no problem with them doing something to better explain the mechanics. However it is really virtually identical to any other ground STF. Pew pew pew. More pew. Some more pewing. Boss. Pew.
Infected and the other Borg STFs just have some non-intuitive and non-obvious non-combat mechanics in them to get to the boss. It's still 95% pew pew pew. There's nothing particularly complicated, just a little tricky.
And, frankly if any Borg STF should be removed from random, it is Borg Disconnected. It is easily the worst designed and least enjoyable of the bunch.
Because it is another autocomplete map like the ones from the stream or why do you think so?
Because
Its more teamwork based, having to split up into multiple groups to cover all the re-assimilation stations.
Has somewhat interesting mechanics, like having to close Undine rifts, and the ability to actually use your ship as a shield to block the Voth's anti-Borg torpedoes.
Generally subverts expectations that the purpose is to shoot things. In fact, shooting things during anything but the end stage is wasting time that could be spent freeing Borg ships, and is generally not productive.
It still a fairly nice looking map.
The only problem I really have with it is that the dreadnought stage at the end is horribly scaled in terms of how much HP they have, and how much time you have to kill them.
Not one of the best TFOs in the game, but higher up there then most.
How about you acknowledge you were wrong after the videos have been posted or are you to proud to admit you were wrong cause everybody else can now see it in the videos that you were.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Because it is another autocomplete map like the ones from the stream or why do you think so?
Because
Its more teamwork based, having to split up into multiple groups to cover all the re-assimilation stations.
Has somewhat interesting mechanics, like having to close Undine rifts, and the ability to actually use your ship as a shield to block the Voth's anti-Borg torpedoes.
Generally subverts expectations that the purpose is to shoot things. In fact, shooting things during anything but the end stage is wasting time that could be spent freeing Borg ships, and is generally not productive.
It still a fairly nice looking map.
The only problem I really have with it is that the dreadnought stage at the end is horribly scaled in terms of how much HP they have, and how much time you have to kill them.
Not one of the best TFOs in the game, but higher up there then most.
How about you acknowledge you were wrong after the videos have been posted or are you to proud to admit you were wrong cause everybody else can now see it in the videos that you were.
I'm curious as to how far into denial he's willing to go on that subject myself.
All that video proved is that you can waste massive amounts of time to get jack all for rewards, exactly like I've been saying this whole time.
No, no, as perverse as it is for not doing anything the reward were just great (if not the same as in SB1, as we did all by doing nothing )!
No time is vasted at all, you either stream and show others how stupid STO has become at the PvE front or you doff and admirality it out while you wait the map to autocomplete and ad the marks. You can complete entire reputation systems the AFK way and get the elite marks for gear too!
Just not for Omega rep of course as the maps are dated.
Twist it as you like it is 0 effort for 0 time lost which means max rewards.
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Standing around for 10-15 minutes to get 15 marks isn't a great reward, its not even a good reward.
But, but you forget the daily reward, dil, elite marks, materials even salvage in SB1. I also dont recall only getting 15 anywhere.
Compare it with the awsome new Forrest Gump patrols where you hang for 8 minutes getting less and there you actualy need to do something at least parts of the time.
I'm telling you dude. If its just about stuff to grind AFK is the way to go now.
If its about fun on the other hand... oh well... I should not have said that as AFK it in STO and play something else often feels like the best way to go there too in most modern map designs.
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Standing around for 10-15 minutes to get 15 marks isn't a great reward, its not even a good reward.
But, but you forget the daily reward, dil, elite marks, materials even salvage in SB1. I also dont recall only getting 15 anywhere.
They also give RTFO box, endeavor credit and event progress where applicable.
IOW, everything most people are actually there for. Between the daily bonus and RTFO box, that's already enough marks to run a rep for 4 days (or possibly much more, if you get a higher-quality RTFO box). The optionals are worth peanuts in comparison.
We've been called elitists because we want a challenge, because we don't feel that having something that actually requires team work is bad, for the game or for the players.
It's pretty natural to think someone an elitist, when their stance is "everything is too easy and has no actual challenge to any of it". If that's the position you start a debate from, people are gonna think you're either insane or an elitist.
Nope, I'm not gonna be happy with that. It was never "everything is too easy", it was always "pretty much every piece of the newer content - which is, incidentally, also the one that get played the most - is an AFKer paradise because there's no team work, not mechanics, no nothing involved". And @felisean showed that perfectly well with his latest video.
As @peterconnorfirst said, though, if wanting people to actually know how to play the game and be capable of doing more than pushing one button makes me an elitist, then so be it.
Again @ltminns is right. This discussion is pointless. And I, for one, have got better things to do than to argue with people that don't want to see what's right in front of them. You enjoy your playing time, I will enjoy what little challenge is left in this game.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
If there is no teamwork required why not make 1 player tfo's. That way i don't have to complain about the dude next to me with 50+ injuries. Because i want to play an MMO for solo play...
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
If there is no teamwork required why not make 1 player tfo's. That way i don't have to complain about the dude next to me with 50+ injuries. Because i want to play an MMO for solo play...
Or have to wait in queue for 4 people who aren't needed for anything in the actual mission.
Well, I am not sure if there is a livestream today as i think the event in England starts tomorrow (might be remembering wrong). Hopefully we can get an answer.
However, Kael has posted that he has been attacked over a decision on twitter and doesnt appreciate it (no idea if it is tied into the Manus change). I fully agree fully that while we may really not like some decisions, i dont think any of us here would go to that level.
However, there is a discussion on reddit about it, and some people believe it is the result of this discussion and some of us raising up to try to get the queue back into RTFO. But comments such as this from some people against Manus being re-added doesnt help matters. As some in that comment section seem to think of us in the Pro Manus camp are responisble for the comments.
Quote from reddit user Gorgonops_SSF
"Plus it helps folks like me know where to put the boot down in discourse. The "save manus!" campaign (assuming given comments below that's what was involved here) was logically insupportable in the first place (see. contextualizing personal favorites in light of a population) and we dealt with points at length in discussion.
There may still be some discussion to be had (ex. re-implementing Manus as a weekend event queue), but folks could also be approaching the topic in bad faith (as was shown to the process of discussion and feedback in trying to strong-arm the devs into capitulating through flaming) with emphasis relating less to actual need and more to absolute spite.
It's a fine PSA on general principle and more or less serves as a statement that the act of harassment isn't being taken as a grass-roots uprising against Cryptic for whatever issue is at play here. Ie. it fizzled."
Because it is another autocomplete map like the ones from the stream or why do you think so?
Because
Its more teamwork based, having to split up into multiple groups to cover all the re-assimilation stations.
Has somewhat interesting mechanics, like having to close Undine rifts, and the ability to actually use your ship as a shield to block the Voth's anti-Borg torpedoes.
Generally subverts expectations that the purpose is to shoot things. In fact, shooting things during anything but the end stage is wasting time that could be spent freeing Borg ships, and is generally not productive.
It still a fairly nice looking map.
The only problem I really have with it is that the dreadnought stage at the end is horribly scaled in terms of how much HP they have, and how much time you have to kill them.
Not one of the best TFOs in the game, but higher up there then most.
Yeah getting a high score in Disco requires you to know what you're doing and how to avoid the annoyance of dealing with enemies. Yes, AVOID shooting the enemies! Mind blowing eh?
Because it is another autocomplete map like the ones from the stream or why do you think so?
Because
Its more teamwork based, having to split up into multiple groups to cover all the re-assimilation stations.
Has somewhat interesting mechanics, like having to close Undine rifts, and the ability to actually use your ship as a shield to block the Voth's anti-Borg torpedoes.
Generally subverts expectations that the purpose is to shoot things. In fact, shooting things during anything but the end stage is wasting time that could be spent freeing Borg ships, and is generally not productive.
It still a fairly nice looking map.
The only problem I really have with it is that the dreadnought stage at the end is horribly scaled in terms of how much HP they have, and how much time you have to kill them.
Not one of the best TFOs in the game, but higher up there then most.
Yeah getting a high score in Disco requires you to know what you're doing and how to avoid the annoyance of dealing with enemies. Yes, AVOID shooting the enemies! Mind blowing eh?
yea borg disconnected.. one of the most dangerous queues. you launch some pets for stage 1 and let them have fun with the borg (yay for pets) and hammer your poor interact button (usualy f). in stage 2+3 you just let them fight with each other and hammer the poor poor interact button (i'm sooo sry f button).
someone could get the idea of using a logitech keyboard with a macro function to let the f button be pressed all the time and we're basically again at afk level but getting all the optionals (whee)
but yes, the hated part at the end aka shooting the enemies without being afk.. yea that one is defnitly the worst part of the map and not just a stu... awesome timegate
p.s. @somtaawkhar
we finished starbase 1 elite with all objectives and stuff, you could clearly see that. thats what we mainly said. and i'm stil waiting for your apology.
p.p.s: nukara self destructive tendencies with 12 marks at the end, that mission actually FAILED. it was NOT completed. so there was no win but a loss!
you might see the difference, no daily bonus, no dilithium, no rnd box.. all the others rewarded us with those "being successful" rewards
All that video proved is that you can waste massive amounts of time to get jack all for rewards, exactly like I've been saying this whole time.
It proves what you said multiple times was completely wrong about SB1 and that you can AFK some TFO's and get max reward. It also proves the some other TFOs you can AFK and get the bulk of the rewards that matter for very little loss.
Why is it so hard for to admit you make a mistake? We are all human, we all do it.
Well, I am not sure if there is a livestream today as i think the event in England starts tomorrow (might be remembering wrong). Hopefully we can get an answer.
However, Kael has posted that he has been attacked over a decision on twitter and doesnt appreciate it (no idea if it is tied into the Manus change). I fully agree fully that while we may really not like some decisions, i dont think any of us here would go to that level.
However, there is a discussion on reddit about it, and some people believe it is the result of this discussion and some of us raising up to try to get the queue back into RTFO. But comments such as this from some people against Manus being re-added doesnt help matters. As some in that comment section seem to think of us in the Pro Manus camp are responisble for the comments.
Quote from reddit user Gorgonops_SSF
"Plus it helps folks like me know where to put the boot down in discourse. The "save manus!" campaign (assuming given comments below that's what was involved here) was logically insupportable in the first place (see. contextualizing personal favorites in light of a population) and we dealt with points at length in discussion.
There may still be some discussion to be had (ex. re-implementing Manus as a weekend event queue), but folks could also be approaching the topic in bad faith (as was shown to the process of discussion and feedback in trying to strong-arm the devs into capitulating through flaming) with emphasis relating less to actual need and more to absolute spite.
It's a fine PSA on general principle and more or less serves as a statement that the act of harassment isn't being taken as a grass-roots uprising against Cryptic for whatever issue is at play here. Ie. it fizzled."
I agree some comments in this thread may have been a bit too much. But i still dont believe anyone here has risen to "flaming">
Ah yes...Kael is Disappointed with the Community Part 2: Electric Boogaloo. I'm not surprised.
He could have easily blocked those people on twitter and just moved on, or grown thicker skin. Or stepped down if he can't handle the heat. He's the one who chose to make the twitter account. Keeping his head down after his behavior in the livestream and the removal of something from the RTFO immediately after didn't help his optics at all. Just like the backlash for Blizzard or EA over their poor decisions.
I saw no evidence of anyone saying anything "unjust" to him on his twitter profile.
Yeah getting a high score in Disco requires you to know what you're doing and how to avoid the annoyance of dealing with enemies. Yes, AVOID shooting the enemies! Mind blowing eh?
yea borg disconnected.. one of the most dangerous queues. you launch some pets for stage 1 and let them have fun with the borg (yay for pets) and hammer your poor interact button (usualy f). in stage 2+3 you just let them fight with each other and hammer the poor poor interact button (i'm sooo sry f button).
NOOB! :P But seriously, don't use pets. Pilot(for the enhanced attack patterns), or some other reliable source of temp HP gives you near immunity to being interrupted when doing interacts. So you don't need to kill the Borg at all. In fact, it's counter productive since it starts with two probes who do about as much damage as a pair of tribbles, and spawns worse stuff if you kill them. It's easy to ignore a pair of probes plinking at you. But if you have pets attacking them they'll eventually die, and then you have bigger things to worry about.
And yes, yes I have soloed a lane on Advanced. It takes strategic thinking that goes beyond "activate max DPS macro!"
As a semi-casual f2p with a main (and alts) equipped with mostly purple equipment (the best being rep sets & kits), upgraded only during phoenix events, I found this decision quite disappointing, because even as a perennial red shirt/cannon fodder on advanced queues, in my experience, this TFO was one of the few that really made a random pug step up its game. Granted, the learning curve on most ground borg queues is a little steep and the optionals rely on the commitment of the most experienced/best equipped players, but I've come to the conclusion that if you don’t get in the way, at least read the objectives on the hud and are willing to learn, accept that you don’t know what you don’t know (the basics for any TFO, IMO), things get easier over time. For example, Khitomer in Stasis gets quite confusing on the first run and personally the “console operator” role is beyond my current skill set, so I stick with the “fire team” and with a little bit of communication/coordination it runs quite smoothly.
Back on Manus, with the event Tommy gun and the Pahvan Crystal Prism, I found myself in a good position to improve my survivability rating plus being able to contribute to the team’s dps (meaning that if not considered an asset, at least I’m not a burden), but the best part was it gave me a certain satisfaction and sense of completion to see players working together, even if the optional objective fails and, to be frank, the boss is a cake walk; but to get to the end and not dying jumping around the platforms is something that I came to appreciate a lot. By reading walkthroughs and paying attention to other players thoughts, suggestions and opinions (sometimes plain rude rebukes), I improved my game enough to enjoy this dreaded queue and it became one of my favorite RTFO’s. I won’t say that every time this run came on the random queue turned out to be a stroll in heaven with a new set of BFF’s (some became a never ending madness with the wrong mix of players), but most often than not, brought the best out of even the less experienced (or committed) of players, maybe, and this is just my personal feeling, because you wanted to be involved, maybe because it has a sense of purpose. Once, two members of the queue went AWOL at the get go, but the rest of us stuck to our guns and finished in quite a reasonable fashion (not a lot of chat throughout the run with just a plain gg at the end), we got together and overcame the extra challenge.
I get that not every TFO is popular, some people will have their favorites, and then the not so; in my case I rather pluck the hairs of my nose for 20 minutes rather than doing Herald Sphere (“gateway opening…” Ugh!), and given that I don’t like to bail out, my attitude is: if you go for the RTFO queue and the one that you get doesn’t favor your taste, you know the drill: bite the bullet, get it done and get your extra dil/endeavor grind/marks/spec points. If that is too much of a burden, I think is best to stick with the manual queue.
As far as TFOs go, other than the “pew-pew” crew having a field day on an “enemy galore” environment with gratuitous (and sometimes obnoxious) teleports, hazards and/or holds becoming “the hardships of the trial”, Manus has a good mix of “Brains-Skill Vs Challenge” and, for me, has a good grade on the enjoyment ranking, so if it needs a rework to be on the RTFO list, I’m ok with it, but in my experience, other than complaints about the optional objective, the main structure and flow it’s not something so unpleasant that makes everyone want to run (or cry); besides every shortcoming it’s nothing that 30 minutes (at the most) of trial and error, if required, can’t fix.
And yes, yes I have soloed a lane on Advanced. It takes strategic thinking that goes beyond "activate max DPS macro!"
Do I look at a problem here that runs much deeper than just IGA?
I mean if the DEVs would remove a map I dislike from the RTFO system (and there are a few) I’d be happy about it. Perhaps I’d even thrown in my 2c in a respective thread where others are unhappy with the change but that would be all becuase from that moment onward I’d be in game enjoying it more than I did before.
Now with the un-pleasantries of IGA out of your way you can’t help but sticking with the topic. You even use opportunities to gloat now that you not only get stuff done straight without any DPS but also show pride that you can entierly solo things. Of course it does not mean anything in the presented case as the different critters attack each other on that map so nobody cares how you deal with them as they deal with themselves. Of course you could use that easy going to familiarize yourself with mild aspects of team play there as in +/- thread mechanics but no, doing stuff entirely on your own seems to be all the better for you.
This raises the question, what’s your agenda here? I mean you demonstrated that you favor content that is IN-depended of any in game progression you have achieved (Build/DPS) but it should also involve no team play if possible?
Are you sure a single player arcade game would not be better suited for you?
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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Yea we didn’t get any Dil, Daily marks, craftig mats, elite marks (ok there are none in case of nukara) and if would have been and rtfo we would not have gotten a random box or finished the respective endeavor as @warpangel reminded. But aside from that all, it’s literally no different.
Once again you are spot on dude. At least in your case your agenda is clear by now.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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yea borg disconnected.. one of the most dangerous queues. you launch some pets for stage 1 and let them have fun with the borg (yay for pets) and hammer your poor interact button (usualy f). in stage 2+3 you just let them fight with each other and hammer the poor poor interact button (i'm sooo sry f button).
someone could get the idea of using a logitech keyboard with a macro function to let the f button be pressed all the time and we're basically again at afk level but getting all the optionals (whee)
but yes, the hated part at the end aka shooting the enemies without being afk.. yea that one is defnitly the worst part of the map and not just a stu... awesome timegate
p.s. @somtaawkhar
we finished starbase 1 elite with all objectives and stuff, you could clearly see that. thats what we mainly said. and i'm stil waiting for your apology.
p.p.s: nukara self destructive tendencies with 12 marks at the end, that mission actually FAILED. it was NOT completed. so there was no win but a loss!
you might see the difference, no daily bonus, no dilithium, no rnd box.. all the others rewarded us with those "being successful" rewards
As @markhawkman pointed out, launching pets is counter productive to the TFO. Also, for one talking about AFKing, and setting up macros, the final boss fight of Borg Disconnected is THE most AFK/macroable part of the whole TFO, since all it is is shooting things. One could easily do that by simply taping down the spacebar to endlessly auto fire, and walking away. On the other hand, the first part of the TFO actually requires you to interact with the cubes to free them, and getting shot interrupts said action, making it less AFK/macroable.
Also, you say Self Destruct was failed, not completed, and yet it brought up the exact same "Operation Complete!" message every TFO does, and gave you marks proportionate to your work like all the TFOs do. So it says the same thing, and rewards the same way. It's literally no different. Another point, the bonus mark pack is supposed to be something you get when you earn marks, period. It isn't supposed to be based on winning or losing to begin with. All you have pointed out is that it isn't set up correctly in some content.
As for Starbase 1, that appears to be an AI problem in certain situations. One that I will readily admit should be fixed. Having had it happen on a very rare occasion while playing it on advanced, I know the Klingon ships can, and do, attack the fleeing transports if no one is around, and have had teams lose transports due to everyone being on one side of the starbase and not paying attention. A bug where they don't do the thing they are supposed to do isn't intended design though.
and i say it for you again, since you seem to not understand it.
if you FAIL/LOOSE a queue, you will get 10 (+ bonusmark pool) marks => 12 marks. you will get NO daily bonus pack, NO dilithium, NO R&D pack. thats how you could identify if a queue failed or not.
if you get all of those things => you've been successful.
please try to understand that and keep that in mind.
and just say:
yes i was wrong with sb1e. you prooved to me that i was wrong, i accept that now
its not that difficult to admit a mistake, its just human.
and for borg disconnected, yay since we got a new console for even more temphp its even much easier now. havent played that queue for a while.
but doing something during the first 3 stages just increase the mark reward, the only required objective as far as i know is to kill the dreads at the end to successful end the queue (for somtaawkhar again: get the daily bonus mark pack, the dilithium, the r&d pack)
yea borg disconnected.. one of the most dangerous queues. you launch some pets for stage 1 and let them have fun with the borg (yay for pets) and hammer your poor interact button (usualy f). in stage 2+3 you just let them fight with each other and hammer the poor poor interact button (i'm sooo sry f button).
someone could get the idea of using a logitech keyboard with a macro function to let the f button be pressed all the time and we're basically again at afk level but getting all the optionals (whee)
but yes, the hated part at the end aka shooting the enemies without being afk.. yea that one is defnitly the worst part of the map and not just a stu... awesome timegate
p.s. @somtaawkhar
we finished starbase 1 elite with all objectives and stuff, you could clearly see that. thats what we mainly said. and i'm stil waiting for your apology.
p.p.s: nukara self destructive tendencies with 12 marks at the end, that mission actually FAILED. it was NOT completed. so there was no win but a loss!
you might see the difference, no daily bonus, no dilithium, no rnd box.. all the others rewarded us with those "being successful" rewards
As @markhawkman pointed out, launching pets is counter productive to the TFO. Also, for one talking about AFKing, and setting up macros, the final boss fight of Borg Disconnected is THE most AFK/macroable part of the whole TFO, since all it is is shooting things. One could easily do that by simply taping down the spacebar to endlessly auto fire, and walking away. On the other hand, the first part of the TFO actually requires you to interact with the cubes to free them, and getting shot interrupts said action, making it less AFK/macroable.
Also, you say Self Destruct was failed, not completed, and yet it brought up the exact same "Operation Complete!" message every TFO does, and gave you marks proportionate to your work like all the TFOs do. So it says the same thing, and rewards the same way. It's literally no different. Another point, the bonus mark pack is supposed to be something you get when you earn marks, period. It isn't supposed to be based on winning or losing to begin with. All you have pointed out is that it isn't set up correctly in some content.
As for Starbase 1, that appears to be an AI problem in certain situations. One that I will readily admit should be fixed. Having had it happen on a very rare occasion while playing it on advanced, I know the Klingon ships can, and do, attack the fleeing transports if no one is around, and have had teams lose transports due to everyone being on one side of the starbase and not paying attention. A bug where they don't do the thing they are supposed to do isn't intended design though.
and i say it for you again, since you seem to not understand it.
if you FAIL/LOSE a queue, you will get 10 (+ bonusmark pool) marks => 12 marks. you will get NO daily bonus pack, NO dilithium, NO R&D pack. thats how you could identify if a queue failed or not.
if you get all of those things => you've been successful.
please try to understand that and keep that in mind.
and just say:
yes i was wrong with sb1e. you prooved to me that i was wrong, i accept that now
its not that difficult to admit a mistake, its just human.
and for borg disconnected, yay since we got a new console for even more temphp its even much easier now. havent played that queue for a while. but doing something during the first 3 stages just increase the mark reward, the only required objective as far as i know is to kill the dreads at the end to successful end the queue (for somtaawkhar again: get the daily bonus mark pack, the dilithium, the r&d pack)
Correct. It's just like the end with Mirror Invasion. Wait out the clock, grease the boss(es) at the end, and collect your rewards. Even if you miss the optionals, you still succeed.
There's another way to tell if you succeed at a TFO nowadays for advanced or elite(Honestly not sure if you can fail BOTSA or Bug Hunt Advanced). You get the specialty currency. If you fail at BOTSE, for example, you don't get the two data cores. If you fail Bug Hunt Elite(Unless they changed it), you don't get the two Delta elite marks.
Somtaawkhar's scripting doesn't allow him to admit when he's wrong, even when there's evidence presented.
If you notice, it appears they're working on sweeping fail condition content under the rug, or stuffing it into the closet. Because if there's a failed TFO/STF, that's not up to "standards." Endless wave with instant respawns and timegated content currently is bad design, when it becomes the norm, not the exception. When it becomes a bandaid to counter a power creep that's ballooned out of control because devs and community managers would rather focus on Rule of Cool to compensate for inability to scale things well or even play, it's bad design. Putting out a Monty Haul as a norm is bad design.
Has there been any official word on which day the livestream is being broadcast from Birmingham yet? Have checked Facebook, twitter, Reddit and the forums but havent been able to find anything.
Then again, been so tired the last couple of days i could have missed it completely
Comments
That is the new golden standard they are talking about minimum effort for maximum reward.
This happened because Kael was incapable of playing advanced and who ever else was on there. If you watched the video you know exactly why it happened. The sad part is KAEL showed us about 80% + of the playerbase i encounter everyday in these random tfo's. The people here complaing that it was taken off are the few left who actually want some sort of a challenge as you can see in the video posted above, the rest of the stuff is more or less braindead afk tfo's. Not sure what todays standard is for Cryptic but it used to be up there now its down below.
My character Tsin'xing
As we basically placed the skill limbo rod above the ceiling here with jumping and pushing buttons in IGA I dont think that being called an elitists is any sort of a problem for anybody involved anymore.
I mean its not even remotely DPS elitism, just basic functionality elitism so I for my part take it as a compliment and even think its kida cute.
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Yea perhaps they could re-make it in a way that killing the dreads at the end is purely voluntary?
Something like you can kill em in 3 minutes if you want but if you dont do it they just warp out and the map completes. It would make the whole thing more in line with the rest of it. More suitable for random groups too.
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No that's not right. They aren't even close to raid content from any other game. The complicated thing you have to do in IGA is pressing your interact button at the same time as other people, which is very conveniently easily done with the audio cue from the first person to click. Then someone presses interact again to upload the virus. If you can do it once, you can do it 4 times. It's extremely easy.
I'd happily grant that because the STF is so old and different than others, it isn't obvious, easy to notice, or even explained well, and I have no problem with them doing something to better explain the mechanics. However it is really virtually identical to any other ground STF. Pew pew pew. More pew. Some more pewing. Boss. Pew.
Infected and the other Borg STFs just have some non-intuitive and non-obvious non-combat mechanics in them to get to the boss. It's still 95% pew pew pew. There's nothing particularly complicated, just a little tricky.
And, frankly if any Borg STF should be removed from random, it is Borg Disconnected. It is easily the worst designed and least enjoyable of the bunch.
How about you acknowledge you were wrong after the videos have been posted or are you to proud to admit you were wrong cause everybody else can now see it in the videos that you were.
No, no, as perverse as it is for not doing anything the reward were just great (if not the same as in SB1, as we did all by doing nothing
No time is vasted at all, you either stream and show others how stupid STO has become at the PvE front or you doff and admirality it out while you wait the map to autocomplete and ad the marks. You can complete entire reputation systems the AFK way and get the elite marks for gear too!
Just not for Omega rep of course as the maps are dated.
Twist it as you like it is 0 effort for 0 time lost which means max rewards.
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But, but you forget the daily reward, dil, elite marks, materials even salvage in SB1. I also dont recall only getting 15 anywhere.
Compare it with the awsome new Forrest Gump patrols where you hang for 8 minutes getting less and there you actualy need to do something at least parts of the time.
I'm telling you dude. If its just about stuff to grind AFK is the way to go now.
If its about fun on the other hand... oh well... I should not have said that as AFK it in STO and play something else often feels like the best way to go there too in most modern map designs.
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IOW, everything most people are actually there for. Between the daily bonus and RTFO box, that's already enough marks to run a rep for 4 days (or possibly much more, if you get a higher-quality RTFO box). The optionals are worth peanuts in comparison.
Nope, I'm not gonna be happy with that. It was never "everything is too easy", it was always "pretty much every piece of the newer content - which is, incidentally, also the one that get played the most - is an AFKer paradise because there's no team work, not mechanics, no nothing involved". And @felisean showed that perfectly well with his latest video.
As @peterconnorfirst said, though, if wanting people to actually know how to play the game and be capable of doing more than pushing one button makes me an elitist, then so be it.
Again @ltminns is right. This discussion is pointless. And I, for one, have got better things to do than to argue with people that don't want to see what's right in front of them. You enjoy your playing time, I will enjoy what little challenge is left in this game.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
However, Kael has posted that he has been attacked over a decision on twitter and doesnt appreciate it (no idea if it is tied into the Manus change). I fully agree fully that while we may really not like some decisions, i dont think any of us here would go to that level.
However, there is a discussion on reddit about it, and some people believe it is the result of this discussion and some of us raising up to try to get the queue back into RTFO. But comments such as this from some people against Manus being re-added doesnt help matters. As some in that comment section seem to think of us in the Pro Manus camp are responisble for the comments.
Quote from reddit user Gorgonops_SSF
"Plus it helps folks like me know where to put the boot down in discourse. The "save manus!" campaign (assuming given comments below that's what was involved here) was logically insupportable in the first place (see. contextualizing personal favorites in light of a population) and we dealt with points at length in discussion.
There may still be some discussion to be had (ex. re-implementing Manus as a weekend event queue), but folks could also be approaching the topic in bad faith (as was shown to the process of discussion and feedback in trying to strong-arm the devs into capitulating through flaming) with emphasis relating less to actual need and more to absolute spite.
It's a fine PSA on general principle and more or less serves as a statement that the act of harassment isn't being taken as a grass-roots uprising against Cryptic for whatever issue is at play here. Ie. it fizzled."
Source - https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/dm2vnf/hey_folks_if_youre_upset_about_something_with_the/
I agree some comments in this thread may have been a bit too much. But i still dont believe anyone here has risen to "flaming">
My character Tsin'xing
yea borg disconnected.. one of the most dangerous queues. you launch some pets for stage 1 and let them have fun with the borg (yay for pets) and hammer your poor interact button (usualy f). in stage 2+3 you just let them fight with each other and hammer the poor poor interact button (i'm sooo sry f button).
someone could get the idea of using a logitech keyboard with a macro function to let the f button be pressed all the time and we're basically again at afk level but getting all the optionals (whee)
but yes, the hated part at the end aka shooting the enemies without being afk.. yea that one is defnitly the worst part of the map and not just a stu... awesome timegate
p.s. @somtaawkhar
we finished starbase 1 elite with all objectives and stuff, you could clearly see that. thats what we mainly said. and i'm stil waiting for your apology.
p.p.s: nukara self destructive tendencies with 12 marks at the end, that mission actually FAILED. it was NOT completed. so there was no win but a loss!
you might see the difference, no daily bonus, no dilithium, no rnd box.. all the others rewarded us with those "being successful" rewards
ingame: @Felisean
Why is it so hard for to admit you make a mistake? We are all human, we all do it.
Ah yes...Kael is Disappointed with the Community Part 2: Electric Boogaloo. I'm not surprised.
He could have easily blocked those people on twitter and just moved on, or grown thicker skin. Or stepped down if he can't handle the heat. He's the one who chose to make the twitter account. Keeping his head down after his behavior in the livestream and the removal of something from the RTFO immediately after didn't help his optics at all. Just like the backlash for Blizzard or EA over their poor decisions.
I saw no evidence of anyone saying anything "unjust" to him on his twitter profile.
And yes, yes I have soloed a lane on Advanced. It takes strategic thinking that goes beyond "activate max DPS macro!"
My character Tsin'xing
Back on Manus, with the event Tommy gun and the Pahvan Crystal Prism, I found myself in a good position to improve my survivability rating plus being able to contribute to the team’s dps (meaning that if not considered an asset, at least I’m not a burden), but the best part was it gave me a certain satisfaction and sense of completion to see players working together, even if the optional objective fails and, to be frank, the boss is a cake walk; but to get to the end and not dying jumping around the platforms is something that I came to appreciate a lot. By reading walkthroughs and paying attention to other players thoughts, suggestions and opinions (sometimes plain rude rebukes), I improved my game enough to enjoy this dreaded queue and it became one of my favorite RTFO’s. I won’t say that every time this run came on the random queue turned out to be a stroll in heaven with a new set of BFF’s (some became a never ending madness with the wrong mix of players), but most often than not, brought the best out of even the less experienced (or committed) of players, maybe, and this is just my personal feeling, because you wanted to be involved, maybe because it has a sense of purpose. Once, two members of the queue went AWOL at the get go, but the rest of us stuck to our guns and finished in quite a reasonable fashion (not a lot of chat throughout the run with just a plain gg at the end), we got together and overcame the extra challenge.
I get that not every TFO is popular, some people will have their favorites, and then the not so; in my case I rather pluck the hairs of my nose for 20 minutes rather than doing Herald Sphere (“gateway opening…” Ugh!), and given that I don’t like to bail out, my attitude is: if you go for the RTFO queue and the one that you get doesn’t favor your taste, you know the drill: bite the bullet, get it done and get your extra dil/endeavor grind/marks/spec points. If that is too much of a burden, I think is best to stick with the manual queue.
As far as TFOs go, other than the “pew-pew” crew having a field day on an “enemy galore” environment with gratuitous (and sometimes obnoxious) teleports, hazards and/or holds becoming “the hardships of the trial”, Manus has a good mix of “Brains-Skill Vs Challenge” and, for me, has a good grade on the enjoyment ranking, so if it needs a rework to be on the RTFO list, I’m ok with it, but in my experience, other than complaints about the optional objective, the main structure and flow it’s not something so unpleasant that makes everyone want to run (or cry); besides every shortcoming it’s nothing that 30 minutes (at the most) of trial and error, if required, can’t fix.
So, my 2 cents are: if it’s not broken…
Do I look at a problem here that runs much deeper than just IGA?
I mean if the DEVs would remove a map I dislike from the RTFO system (and there are a few) I’d be happy about it. Perhaps I’d even thrown in my 2c in a respective thread where others are unhappy with the change but that would be all becuase from that moment onward I’d be in game enjoying it more than I did before.
Now with the un-pleasantries of IGA out of your way you can’t help but sticking with the topic. You even use opportunities to gloat now that you not only get stuff done straight without any DPS but also show pride that you can entierly solo things. Of course it does not mean anything in the presented case as the different critters attack each other on that map so nobody cares how you deal with them as they deal with themselves. Of course you could use that easy going to familiarize yourself with mild aspects of team play there as in +/- thread mechanics but no, doing stuff entirely on your own seems to be all the better for you.
This raises the question, what’s your agenda here? I mean you demonstrated that you favor content that is IN-depended of any in game progression you have achieved (Build/DPS) but it should also involve no team play if possible?
Are you sure a single player arcade game would not be better suited for you?
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Yea we didn’t get any Dil, Daily marks, craftig mats, elite marks (ok there are none in case of nukara) and if would have been and rtfo we would not have gotten a random box or finished the respective endeavor as @warpangel reminded. But aside from that all, it’s literally no different.
Once again you are spot on dude. At least in your case your agenda is clear by now.
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and i say it for you again, since you seem to not understand it.
if you FAIL/LOOSE a queue, you will get 10 (+ bonusmark pool) marks => 12 marks. you will get NO daily bonus pack, NO dilithium, NO R&D pack. thats how you could identify if a queue failed or not.
if you get all of those things => you've been successful.
please try to understand that and keep that in mind.
and just say:
yes i was wrong with sb1e. you prooved to me that i was wrong, i accept that now
its not that difficult to admit a mistake, its just human.
and for borg disconnected, yay since we got a new console for even more temphp its even much easier now. havent played that queue for a while.
but doing something during the first 3 stages just increase the mark reward, the only required objective as far as i know is to kill the dreads at the end to successful end the queue (for somtaawkhar again: get the daily bonus mark pack, the dilithium, the r&d pack)
ingame: @Felisean
Correct. It's just like the end with Mirror Invasion. Wait out the clock, grease the boss(es) at the end, and collect your rewards. Even if you miss the optionals, you still succeed.
There's another way to tell if you succeed at a TFO nowadays for advanced or elite(Honestly not sure if you can fail BOTSA or Bug Hunt Advanced). You get the specialty currency. If you fail at BOTSE, for example, you don't get the two data cores. If you fail Bug Hunt Elite(Unless they changed it), you don't get the two Delta elite marks.
Somtaawkhar's scripting doesn't allow him to admit when he's wrong, even when there's evidence presented.
If you notice, it appears they're working on sweeping fail condition content under the rug, or stuffing it into the closet. Because if there's a failed TFO/STF, that's not up to "standards." Endless wave with instant respawns and timegated content currently is bad design, when it becomes the norm, not the exception. When it becomes a bandaid to counter a power creep that's ballooned out of control because devs and community managers would rather focus on Rule of Cool to compensate for inability to scale things well or even play, it's bad design. Putting out a Monty Haul as a norm is bad design.
Then again, been so tired the last couple of days i could have missed it completely