test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

"Infected: Manus" are no longer eligible for Random TFO inclusion ?

1568101113

Comments

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    IGA is pretty much DESIGNED for you to ignore tactics, and teammates. Its a linear corridor DPS slog where any sort of cooperation is only necessary for the 2-3 times you have to press buttons. This compared to something like Pahvo Dissension where teamwork is systemically required for the TFO, since, due to the amount of time you have, and the amount of time it takes the purify the Crystals, its literally impossible to purify them all in the time limit by yourself.
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room. It's become easier over time with un-adaptable weapons and general powercreep, because everything has. Yet here we are with Cryptic pulling it because it (still) requires too much tactics and teamwork for their "standards." :p

    As opposed to Pahvo Dissension, which is designed as a freebie reward dispenser that requires absolutely nothing whatsoever besides being there. Standards!
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    You really haven't though. All you have done is argue that auto failing everything is a win, which it isn't by any definition of the word win.

    For players like me, who have a hard time to understand how they could have won for doing nothing they integrated one super big text saying that I have at the end of a map.

    Lets take the design rules of our super dev team as definition for this game here shal we? :)

    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room. It's become easier over time with un-adaptable weapons and general powercreep, because everything has. Yet here we are with Cryptic pulling it because it (still) requires too much tactics and teamwork for their "standards." :p

    As opposed to Pahvo Dissension, which is designed as a freebie reward dispenser that requires absolutely nothing whatsoever besides being there. Standards!

    ^ What he said. It's simple, you fail if you don't do teamwork on IGA and up getting nothing. On Pahavo Ground you have to do nothing cause you can't fail all you have to do is do some damage and you get your marks and dillithium. But yeah IGA is the one which doesn't require teamwork. OMG there is STO Players who actually want a challenge... oh no.. there is Players who actually want to use their Brain and their Gear.... Let's kill it off and do some braindead timer mission so they can afk their way through.

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room. It's become easier over time with un-adaptable weapons and general powercreep, because everything has. Yet here we are with Cryptic pulling it because it (still) requires too much tactics and teamwork for their "standards." :p

    As opposed to Pahvo Dissension, which is designed as a freebie reward dispenser that requires absolutely nothing whatsoever besides being there. Standards!

    ^ What he said. It's simple, you fail if you don't do teamwork on IGA and up getting nothing. On Pahavo Ground you have to do nothing cause you can't fail all you have to do is do some damage and you get your marks and dillithium. But yeah IGA is the one which doesn't require teamwork. OMG there is STO Players who actually want a challenge... oh no.. there is Players who actually want to use their Brain and their Gear.... Let's kill it off and do some braindead timer mission so they can afk their way through.

    Amen!​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    IGA is pretty much DESIGNED for you to ignore tactics, and teammates. Its a linear corridor DPS slog where any sort of cooperation is only necessary for the 2-3 times you have to press buttons. This compared to something like Pahvo Dissension where teamwork is systemically required for the TFO, since, due to the amount of time you have, and the amount of time it takes the purify the Crystals, its literally impossible to purify them all in the time limit by yourself.
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room.
    It was also designed as a 5-man story mission and NOT designed as a TFO, especially not as a TFO that people would get dumped into at random.
    Standards!
    Exactly, Cryptic actually is designing things based on standards.

    Whether you like that or not is immaterial.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    “One person can do 95% of the TFO by themselves, while everyone just sits around and plays poker.”
    Please prove it as I see zero evidence. Has anyone even attempted the 3 Borg STF’s 95% solo? After the amount of fake and wrong information you have given in this thread I would like to see some real evidence.

    Also Pahvo from experience that one doesn't require a full team on advanced and you can have the bulk of the team playing poker and still complete it without problem. Even on Elite I would solo large sections of it, on advanced I don't see why it would be a problem. I have never tried to solo it on advanced mind you but given how easy Elite is, I would be surprised if it couldn't be 90% done solo on advanced if not 100%.
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    Can we put them in the advanced/Elite only queues? Why punish the rest of us for people being dumb at working together as a team? At least Devs should incentivize teamwork. AoS is a great PvE that gives escalating DIL rewards if you keep on going higher. It's time to re-think how this queues should work.

    After all there should be a clear difference between the easier queues such as the conduit/CE vs longer ones like Manus, bug run and others.​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    IGA is pretty much DESIGNED for you to ignore tactics, and teammates. Its a linear corridor DPS slog where any sort of cooperation is only necessary for the 2-3 times you have to press buttons. This compared to something like Pahvo Dissension where teamwork is systemically required for the TFO, since, due to the amount of time you have, and the amount of time it takes the purify the Crystals, its literally impossible to purify them all in the time limit by yourself.
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room.
    It was also designed as a 5-man story mission and NOT designed as a TFO, especially not as a TFO that people would get dumped into at random.

    What are you talking about? Infected was the first STF. It was always an STF.

  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    Exactly, Cryptic actually is designing things based on standards.

    Whether you like that or not is immaterial.
    Oh, we know. The problem is that the standards have been reduced to "wait for timer - get rewarded for doing nothing" for quite some time now. Why that is has been made painfully obvious by this thread.
    Can we put them in the advanced/Elite only queues? Why punish the rest of us for people being dumb at working together as a team? At least Devs should incentivize teamwork. AoS is a great PvE that gives escalating DIL rewards if you keep on going higher. It's time to re-think how this queues should work.

    After all there should be a clear difference between the easier queues such as the conduit/CE vs longer ones like Manus, bug run and others.

    Agreed. There should be a difference. That's the whole point of having 3 different difficulty levels.
    But as it has been demonstrated in this thread, there are those that would prefer to have an advanced queue as easy as a normal one.
    And those of us that actually likes a challenge are being punished for simply wanting more than no-fail conditions, time-gated, repetitive drivels tha complete themselves.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    “One person can do 95% of the TFO by themselves, while everyone just sits around and plays poker.”
    Please prove it as I see zero evidence. Has anyone even attempted the 3 Borg STF’s 95% solo? After the amount of fake and wrong information you have given in this thread I would like to see some real evidence.

    Also Pahvo from experience that one doesn't require a full team on advanced and you can have the bulk of the team playing poker and still complete it without problem. Even on Elite I would solo large sections of it, on advanced I don't see why it would be a problem. I have never tried to solo it on advanced mind you but given how easy Elite is, I would be surprised if it couldn't be 90% done solo on advanced if not 100%.
    I actually have soloed one of the arms on advanced. It's a bit of a slow slog though. By the time I got to the big crystal at the end the other guys were done with both the other two arms and bum rushed it while I was half-done. Fabrication specialist is amazing when you want to have numbers on your side. :D when you have a bunch of turrets and drones the enemies tend to not pay a lot of attention to you. So I'm free to do interacts.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • feliseanfelisean Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    jcsww wrote: »
    PWE always has excuses to remove content.
    PWE has jack all to do with this, this is Cryptic.
    jcsww wrote: »
    Too bad we were never discussing people trying to complete the optional until we completely debunked your - and others - tired argument of "there's no such thing as auto-win in the game"
    You really haven't though. All you have done is argue that auto failing everything is a win, which it isn't by any definition of the word win.

    and again...

    if you FAIL a queue, you will get 10 marks, no dilithium, no rnd box and no daily bonus box. try it with any elite queue, you will see it.

    if you WIN a queue, you will get marks, dilithium, rnd box and a daily bonus box (if its for the first time).

    those are the 2 possibilities you have.

    the amount of marks you get (one part of the "you win") is through your performance aka, how many optionals (and hidden optionals like the phavo dissention crystal cleaning) you have finished. same would count for teams transportet in counterpoint, devices killed in defend rhlo station advanced.
    if you fail all of those, you still get the base amount of marks, the rnd box, the daily bonus.

    thats all we're saying, you win. not a flawless victory but you win. i mean in a soccer game if you end a game with 2:1 you won the game. wouldnt be like a 10:0 victory but stil a victory ;)

    in addition to your "you said something false".
    you did that by claiming you dont get the same reward for afking starbase one elite isntead of playing it. that was just a false statement from your side, just as an example ;)

    for phavo ground..
    you could finish it with 2 people with all optionals. solo wouldnt be possible due to the limited timer but thats just important for elite not advanced.
    advanced could be soloed with most likely 2 out of 3 lanes finished.
    due to that you would loose 10 marks or something like that. not finishing all of the lanse should be like 30 marks less than doing them ;)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    IGA is pretty much DESIGNED for you to ignore tactics, and teammates. Its a linear corridor DPS slog where any sort of cooperation is only necessary for the 2-3 times you have to press buttons. This compared to something like Pahvo Dissension where teamwork is systemically required for the TFO, since, due to the amount of time you have, and the amount of time it takes the purify the Crystals, its literally impossible to purify them all in the time limit by yourself.
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room.
    It was also designed as a 5-man story mission and NOT designed as a TFO, especially not as a TFO that people would get dumped into at random.
    What are you talking about? Infected was the first STF. It was always an STF.
    I'm talking about the old days, when you assembled a 5-man team and met at a map location in sector space. Back when mk12 purple gear was worth millions... even if it was junk, before fleet holdings, dilithium, and reputation systems were added to the game. Yeah, THAT'S how old Infected is. I don't think it's launch content but pretty close.

    Like seriously... do you even know why I keep calling "Manus of Borg" Becky? I'll give you a hint: if you play the entire STO story as it exists in the journal, you will meet Becky outside the Infected TFO.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    LOL, the fact that Manus was Captain Rebecca Simmons has got nothing to do with anything.
    We all know who she is, and the fact that the STF is hold means absolutely nothing. Then again, you have nothing to go on so you try to derail the conversation with meaningless facts... or straight out lies.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    felisean wrote: »
    if you FAIL a queue, you will get 10 marks, no dilithium, no rnd box and no daily bonus box. try it with any elite queue, you will see it.

    if you WIN a queue, you will get marks, dilithium, rnd box and a daily bonus box (if its for the first time)
    Interesting use of semantics... The game calls it "completing" not "winning". Heck half the time it throws up a dialog box to tell you just how badly you did.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    Basically, make the map not a linear DPS slog for 95% of the time, make the optional rewards logically scaling, create a situation where the team has to split up to get multiple key pieces at the same time to create a situation where the team has to work as a team, make the map design actually make some sense instead of just nonsense, turn the boss fight from just another "shoot her down" fight into something that requires the team to both lure and activate environmental effects to harm her.

    Basically, exchange the current team work for a more convulted version of YOUR OWN idea of team work so that players like you and others in this thread would absolutely not play unless "forced" by some event?
    Yup, good job.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • skhcskhc Member Posts: 355 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    The fact that Pahvo actually requires you to do something besides just a BIGGER NUMBER BETTER! DPS race is one of the main reasons I've seen people like the new Discovery TFOs in general. And even when I queue up for them manually, or land into one via a random, the entire team is always participating in completing the objectives.

    What does Pahvo require you to do? Split off in different directions? Aside from the fact that you can get away just fine without doing that if you have, get this, big enough numbers, the ability to spot that there's more than one objective area is hardly a high bar for teamwork. Oh yeah, and you might lose a few marks if you ignore the agonisers at the end. But again, as long as there's one or two players who see it happening and everyone else produces big enough numbers, it'll be fine. Like everything in STO.

    Except IGA, of course, so that has to be killed. With fire.
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,789 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    PWE always has excuses to remove content.
    PWE has jack all to do with this, this is Cryptic.
    jcsww wrote: »
    Too bad we were never discussing people trying to complete the optional until we completely debunked your - and others - tired argument of "there's no such thing as auto-win in the game"
    You really haven't though. All you have done is argue that auto failing everything is a win, which it isn't by any definition of the word win.
    jcsww wrote: »
    because all the optionals in IGA can be done quite easily if only people would put their mind to it instead of expecting to go in, steamroll everything with little to no regards for mechanics, tactics and even their own teammates.
    IGA is pretty much DESIGNED for you to ignore tactics, and teammates. Its a linear corridor DPS slog where any sort of cooperation is only necessary for the 2-3 times you have to press buttons. One person can do 95% of the TFO by themselves, while everyone just sits around and plays poker. This compared to something like Pahvo Dissension where teamwork is systemically required for the TFO, since, due to the amount of time you have, and the amount of time it takes the purify the Crystals, its literally impossible to purify them all in the time limit by yourself.

    You might want to learn how to multi-quote, because some of what you quoted wasn't said by me. PWE owns Cryptic. I highly doubt PWE is just going to let Cryptic do what they want.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    skhc wrote: »
    The fact that Pahvo actually requires you to do something besides just a BIGGER NUMBER BETTER! DPS race is one of the main reasons I've seen people like the new Discovery TFOs in general. And even when I queue up for them manually, or land into one via a random, the entire team is always participating in completing the objectives.

    What does Pahvo require you to do? Split off in different directions? Aside from the fact that you can get away just fine without doing that if you have, get this, big enough numbers, the ability to spot that there's more than one objective area is hardly a high bar for teamwork. Oh yeah, and you might lose a few marks if you ignore the agonisers at the end. But again, as long as there's one or two players who see it happening and everyone else produces big enough numbers, it'll be fine. Like everything in STO.

    Except IGA, of course, so that has to be killed. With fire.

    Louder for the people in the back.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    “have given zero fake or wrong information in this thread, you just call everything you don't agree with fake and wrong.”
    No I don’t call everything I don’t agree with as fake and wrong, when have I ever gone around doing that? If I make a mistake I will admit it and I have made my fair share of mistakes over the years for example I has highly critical of the 5 rear slot Vorgon Ytijara Dreadnought when it first came out, yet in todays state of game it is my main ship, in fact favourite ship that I spend more time in then any other and although it took me 6+ months I proved some of my criticism from back then wrong.

    Yes you have given fake or wrong information from SB1 Elite to wrong information about the original NWS and more but I am not going into detail here as the mods don’t want us to derail the thread. If you want to discus that we better take it someplace else.


    “You literally can't do Pahvo with just one person. The amount of time it takes to purify the crystals has a set minimum, and that can't be lowered, and with the time clock you are given, its literally impossible to purify all three paths of crystals by yourself before the time runs out.”
    You literally can do it with one person. If the entire team warps out at the start you can get to the end, kill the boss and get the reward, not the fail mission reward but the complete mission reward which is very different to what you get when you fail a TFO. Yes you fail some of the optionals but you still do the mission and get the success message and success reward. Which is the complete opposite to the Borg STF’s where if the people warp out at the start you cannot get anywhere near soloing it and so cannot get any reward.

    1 person can finish and complete Pahvo solo, 2 people can complete it with all the optionals done while the other 3 play poker doing nothing. Which is further than you can get in the Borg STF’s with only 1 or 2 active people and 3 people playing poker. The way I see it you cannot get to the half way point solo in the Borg STF's then your comments about it being practically solo are wrong. If it was something you could practically solo everyone else could warp out and you could get to the 95% point. Depending on which one we are talking about you can get anywhere from 50% the way though to a aprox 5% way though. Getting stuck 5% into the mission is not practically solo.

    If you are saying Pahvo only counts if you do all the optionals and get max reward then you need to apply the same to the person soloing the Borg STF's who will also need to get all the optionals for max reward.


    warpangel wrote: »
    IGA is pretty much DESIGNED for you to ignore tactics, and teammates. Its a linear corridor DPS slog where any sort of cooperation is only necessary for the 2-3 times you have to press buttons. This compared to something like Pahvo Dissension where teamwork is systemically required for the TFO, since, due to the amount of time you have, and the amount of time it takes the purify the Crystals, its literally impossible to purify them all in the time limit by yourself.
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room.
    It was also designed as a 5-man story mission and NOT designed as a TFO, especially not as a TFO that people would get dumped into at random.

    What are you talking about? Infected was the first STF. It was always an STF.
    To be fair to markhawkman while the originals where STFs in name they were not designed or remotely like the current versions in game today or like any current TFO’s, They where STF’s but a very different design to current STF’s

    Personally I preferred the original style and would like to see more content like that even if it was Elite only. But failing that I would take the current cut down versions and I don’t want to see them removed from game.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    If I had to redo the Infected TFOs, here is how I would do them(just some basic high level stuff)

    For Infected space
    • Keep the fundamental aspect of one gate being healed by two transformers, each healed by four generators
    • Spread both out further from the main gate
    • Change the way the generators work to have them slowly respawn after a certain amount of time
    • Change the way the transformers work to where both have to be destroyed within a small window or they will heal each other back up to like 30% hp
    • Re-balance the Borg ships/transformers/generators HP/resistance/damage values to account for the fact the team will split up
    To make Infected space something other then a stright DPS slog, into something that actually needs teamwork, making the team have to split up to take on both transformers at the same time actually enforces some sort of decision making to equal out the DPS between the two teams. The transformers healing each other ensures the teams have to work together on when they take them out, rather then just letting one team blow theirs up while the other team is still only half way there. The fact that the generators will eventually respawn ensures that the team who does get to their transformer first will still have to actively keep it down instead of just being able to sit around doing nothing while the other team is taking theirs down.
    That might actually be somewhat interesting, as long as there was no "who cares, you win anyway" timer behind it. Though, making the bits self-heal/respawn would make it more DPS-centric, not less, as it would require players to have enough to overcome said healing.

    In truth, Infected Space did require teamwork before power creep made it possible to kill the transfos quickly. All it really needs is higher enemy stats (ie, an Elite version). I'd put a 15-minute timer as a fail condition on it on Advanced/Elite (but leave the "don't let transfos get healed" as an optional because it was a stupid fail condition).
    For Infected ground
    • Redo the whole map from a line into something with multiple paths
    • Make the players start out in some sort of central hub, and have to split up into three teams to go down each path to find some mcguffin like security codes to take down a forcefield the Borg have hijacked to protect their base area
    • Redo the "save the starbase personal" optional objective into something that scales based on how many you save, rather then just auto failing if you miss even one guy
    • Add a secondary optional of getting the mcguffins in X amount of time, with some narrative excuse like "we need to get the shield down before the Borg have time to reinforce their position"
    • Get rid of the plasma pool in the boss room(why would a Starbase even have that much plasma fluid just sitting around in a room in the first place? why would the Borg even want that since its just as dangerous for them?) Make the boss fight similar to the Leeta fight in "Assault on Terok Nor" where you are using the starbase's generator to zap the boss's shield down, and players have t lure her into it.
    Basically, make the map not a linear DPS slog for 95% of the time, make the optional rewards logically scaling, create a situation where the team has to split up to get multiple key pieces at the same time to create a situation where the team has to work as a team, make the map design actually make some sense instead of just nonsense, turn the boss fight from just another "shoot her down" fight into something that requires the team to both lure and activate environmental effects to harm her.
    • If they'd have to redo the whole map, they might as well just create an entirely new mission from scratch for the same amount of work.
    • It's being removed because Cryptic's "standards" don't allow for requiring 3 players to open a door together while standing next to eachother, and you think they'd make peeps do it from across the map?
    • Again, it wouldn't make it any less "DPS" having 3 lanes. Not that ground is particularly "DPS" to begin with, but whatever.
    • That Leeta fight in AoTN is horribly stupid and should never be mimicked in anything. It makes her act like a complete moron willingly stepping on the obvious hazard, multiple times. And why does she even have the machine needed to kill her set up in her room in the first place? Lame. That fight needs to be redone, not Manus.

    Like the space version, it used to take plenty of teamwork before powercreep (and un-adaptable weapons) made it possible to just bruteforce it. Needs an Elite. And fail conditions. The 15 minute timer would work fine here, too.

    BTW, I believe the plasma hazard in the boss room is meant to be reminiscent of the scene in First Contact where Data breaks the plasma tank to kill all the borg in engineering.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    IGA is pretty much DESIGNED for you to ignore tactics, and teammates. Its a linear corridor DPS slog where any sort of cooperation is only necessary for the 2-3 times you have to press buttons. This compared to something like Pahvo Dissension where teamwork is systemically required for the TFO, since, due to the amount of time you have, and the amount of time it takes the purify the Crystals, its literally impossible to purify them all in the time limit by yourself.
    ROFLMAO :D:D:D

    Infected was designed to require cooperation and tactics in every single room.
    It was also designed as a 5-man story mission and NOT designed as a TFO, especially not as a TFO that people would get dumped into at random.
    What are you talking about? Infected was the first STF. It was always an STF.
    To be fair to markhawkman while the originals where STFs in name they were not designed or remotely like the current versions in game today or like any current TFO’s, They where STF’s but a very different design to current STF’s

    Personally I preferred the original style and would like to see more content like that even if it was Elite only. But failing that I would take the current cut down versions and I don’t want to see them removed from game.
    Heh, I said it wasn't a TFO, not that it wasn't an STF. :p Silly peoples trying to be nit picky and missing the nits. :p But yeah, The original structure of Infected was a story mission designed to be played by 5 players. I mean, it had text explaining WHY you're going after Becky and not just blasting the starbase to bits. Also, It was just "Infected" no "IGA", or "ISN" There was just Infected since it was a single mission.

    At any rate the point behind bringing this up is that Gozer planned for only premade teams to be ABLE to do it. No PUGs, especially not people who don't even know if they're getting a Borg TFO as their random roll of the dice.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    At any rate the point behind bringing this up is that Gozer planned for only premade teams to be ABLE to do it. No PUGs, especially not people who don't even know if they're getting a Borg TFO as their random roll of the dice.

    Again!

    It not only worked in 2012 pugs where I learned how to play it, IGA got a lot whole easier due to power creep and lack of elite mode since then, got supported with special gear (Snipe, Shotgun, Tommy, new melee stuff) and remains in the explanation of the tutorial and related Borg arc player do bevor reaching endgame.

    The only reason to remove IGA now is to fully acknowledge that the player-base right along with you and our community manager did not get better over the years but a lot worse at playing STO.

    So much for nitpicking and semantics dude. Be proud! ;)
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
This discussion has been closed.