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Feeling rather peeved... what does RANDOM mean to you?

colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 2,199 Arc User
So... I like the Random button on the PvE queues. I like it picking something and surprising me. However, lately, there's no surprises. The last 113 times I pressed it, it's that Mycelial Realm mission. Bad enough it's Discovery content (which I loathe). Worse, it's chock full of constant, nearly continuous teleports, holds, stuns and whatnot (not difficult, but REALLY irritating). But then, to stick me with it EVERY time I select a "random" mission? I do not think that word means what they think it means.

So, sick to death of doing the same mission over and over and over (and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...etc.), I finally quit and get stuck with a 30 minute penalty.

Very annoying and frustrating.

I hope they're planning of fixing this if it's a bug. If it's NOT, then they deserve a bit of ire.
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Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Do random advanced.. there is no advanced version of Mycelial Realm.

    Problem solved.





    At least until tomorrow when you make this same thread about ISA. :lol:
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  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    Yeah a lot of people are doing it for the event ship. So that might be why.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    But... why would it matter what people are doing if it's RANDOM?

    Actually its like neverwinters system of random queues which they basically ported over years back. What it does is it takes you to a queue that needs to be filled up. So it just dones't queue by random selecting but queues up certain ones if they have players waiting for them. So in a way it does help with queues that might not get active without it. But at the same time if people are constantly queuing up and waiting for one type of queue then that queue will possibly be the one you will get the most out of any of them. since people are constantly queueing up for the Myciel network it ends up being the queue you end up in . I think the code only truely gives out random if no one else is queued up for any queue at the time. So until the event is over with you might want to avoid it or do advanced random. Because the system was meant to help speed up times in getting into queues that might not be so popular. When there is a event like this so many are queueing up for it so the system might place you into it more likely then others. Its the way the code is designed unfortunately.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    But... why would it matter what people are doing if it's RANDOM?

    It's the way the system works.

    The first thing that the system does when you queue for random is it finds a queue that's waiting to be filled and puts you in it. Right now, everyone is queued for Myclial Realm because that's the one needed for the current event.

    Normally, what keeps this constant loop from happening is the cooldown. After you finish a queue, you're on a 30 minute cooldown which keeps you from getting it again right away. I don't however, think they put a cooldown on the Event Queue so the unfortunate side effect is that you just get the same queue over and over.

    The way around it right now is queue advanced. There is currently no version of Mycelial Realm except for the normal mode version. Queuing advanced will prevent you from drawing that queue and getting caught 'in the loop.'

    If you can't handle Advanced, then you basically can't use the Random system until the event is over unless they add/fix the cooldown to prevent you from doing it over and over.
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
    As has been explained, over and over again, in the original announcement blogs for RTFOs, several threads on the subject since then, and in responses now in this very thread, it randomly places you in a queue that is waiting to be filled. This is so that players who have chosen a particular TFO can get enough players to actually play the TFO they want to play, and you, as the random player, are rewarded extra, because you were kind enough to stick around and play with them rather than bail on them. Also, as already stated, the cooldown normally keeps one from getting thrown back into the same TFO over and over again, but due to the event, Mycelial Realm doesn't have a cooldown, so if you're queueing for Normal, then chances are you'll get put right back into it since players are choosing it to run their daily event progress.
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    It really sucks. I have a character that isn't really ready for advanced yet but really needs a lot of different rep marks. So its nothing but saving the mushroom kingdom over and over and over. The event has definitely broken things in this regard. I'll probably just start queuing advanced anyway though. It's pretty miserable doing that same STF over and over.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
    It's not broken, though. It's functioning as it should. It's just that a) Mycelial Realm is being queued constantly for the event, and b) there's no cooldown, which was done on purpose, to prevent being thrown back into it.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    It's not broken, though. It's functioning as it should. It's just that a) Mycelial Realm is being queued constantly for the event, and b) there's no cooldown, which was done on purpose, to prevent being thrown back into it.
    But it's not working as it should. Event queues are, or at least were, supposed to be excluded from random.
  • dsarisdsaris Member Posts: 369 Arc User
    Random isn't truly "random"... you just get put in whatever queue is waiting for players. Given that MR is part of an event so there is no cooldown keeping you from replaying it ad infinitum guess what people clicking "random" are going to get tossed in over and over and over?
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's not broken, though. It's functioning as it should. It's just that a) Mycelial Realm is being queued constantly for the event, and b) there's no cooldown, which was done on purpose, to prevent being thrown back into it.
    But it's not working as it should. Event queues are, or at least were, supposed to be excluded from random.

    But it actually is working as intended. In this instance this the first event under the new system and it's not tied to just the new queue specifically. Part of the reason you couldn't random into an event is because a special version of the instance was typically rolled out for it. Case and point the Crystalline Catastrophe and how it used to be. There was the previous version of the queue and the queue we have now. When the event rolled around, the standard version is essentially disabled and the event version is enabled. Since it's not/wasn't the standard version of the queue, it wasn't included in the random system since it was only supposed to be available for a time. If you wanted to do the event version you had to specifically queue for it and your teammates would be chosen at random from folks who also specifically queued for it.

    With this random system as we have now when you queue for advanced or normal, it's essentially the same thing as specifically queuing for everything in the list you can queue for at once. You're essentially telling the system "I don't care what you put me in, just let me play." The system then checks the list of waiting players and puts you into the group needing the least amount of people first, so if you're queueing solo and there is a group that only needs 1 person, that's the group you will get put in. If something happens that someone doesn't accept the invite, you're put back to the front of the line and it tries to match you again. Once it matches you with a group it then selects a queue at random from the list and throws you all in there. You may get one you like and you might not. If you get multiple queues you don't like in a row, that's just bad luck of the draw and probability on your part. As far as the system is concerned, when you hit that queue button you agreed to play that queue as one of the possible results.

    The only way to guarantee you don't get put into a queue you hate is to specific queue for what you want. Otherwise it's just bad sportsmanship to keep leaving queues over and over and over again because you told the system and everyone else in that queue you would play it by hitting that button. If you had no intention of playing that queue then you shouldn't hit random and tell the system and by extension the other 4 people that you're willing to play it. That just hampers their ability to complete the queue because someone else is a bad sport. (This is "you" in the general sense and not you specifically.)
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Of course its working as designed. That doesn't mean it should have been designed to work this way. That is how it is "broken" it's working in a bad way.

    I'd suggest they put a 1hr lockout in the randomizer from it throwing you into the same queue. You would still be able to manually queue it again after the normal half hour cooldown, of course (or 0 cooldown in this case.)
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    Of course its working as designed. That doesn't mean it should have been designed to work this way. That is how it is "broken" it's working in a bad way.

    I'd suggest they put a 1hr lockout in the randomizer from it throwing you into the same queue. You would still be able to manually queue it again after the normal half hour cooldown, of course (or 0 cooldown in this case.)

    On normal queues there is that (well standard 30 min CD) it's just that the current situation is an exception to the rule.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Of course its working as designed. That doesn't mean it should have been designed to work this way. That is how it is "broken" it's working in a bad way.

    I'd suggest they put a 1hr lockout in the randomizer from it throwing you into the same queue. You would still be able to manually queue it again after the normal half hour cooldown, of course (or 0 cooldown in this case.)

    Simply because you don't like how something is designed doesn't mean it's broken or necessarily bad. Saying "I think this should change because A B C," is at least a fair argument that can be debated, which thankfully you have given us with your second section.

    In World of Warcraft one of the things they started doing for folks who hated certain battlegrounds, but still wanted to random was to allow you to exclude a small number of them from the random queue system. You were limited to 2 battlegrounds last I played that you could exclude from the system, otherwise you had to play what came up. I'm not opposed to an option like this here where folks could exclude one or two queues from the system for slightly reduced random rewards. This is because by excluding those 2 queues it ceases to be fully random.

    Otherwise the 30 minute cooldowns are meant to be a thing to prevent you from being thrown into that same queue super fast yet again. We can debate if that's a long enough window or not but that's a different ballgame. If a queue is off cooldown I don't see why it should be excluded from the possible options it gives you. If you truly want random queues then logically that would have to be part of the pool of queues with the system as is now.
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  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,205 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's not broken, though. It's functioning as it should. It's just that a) Mycelial Realm is being queued constantly for the event, and b) there's no cooldown, which was done on purpose, to prevent being thrown back into it.
    But it's not working as it should. Event queues are, or at least were, supposed to be excluded from random.

    But it actually is working as intended. In this instance this the first event under the new system and it's not tied to just the new queue specifically. Part of the reason you couldn't random into an event is because a special version of the instance was typically rolled out for it. Case and point the Crystalline Catastrophe and how it used to be. There was the previous version of the queue and the queue we have now. When the event rolled around, the standard version is essentially disabled and the event version is enabled. Since it's not/wasn't the standard version of the queue, it wasn't included in the random system since it was only supposed to be available for a time. If you wanted to do the event version you had to specifically queue for it and your teammates would be chosen at random from folks who also specifically queued for it.

    With this random system as we have now when you queue for advanced or normal, it's essentially the same thing as specifically queuing for everything in the list you can queue for at once. You're essentially telling the system "I don't care what you put me in, just let me play." The system then checks the list of waiting players and puts you into the group needing the least amount of people first, so if you're queueing solo and there is a group that only needs 1 person, that's the group you will get put in. If something happens that someone doesn't accept the invite, you're put back to the front of the line and it tries to match you again. Once it matches you with a group it then selects a queue at random from the list and throws you all in there. You may get one you like and you might not. If you get multiple queues you don't like in a row, that's just bad luck of the draw and probability on your part. As far as the system is concerned, when you hit that queue button you agreed to play that queue as one of the possible results.

    The only way to guarantee you don't get put into a queue you hate is to specific queue for what you want. Otherwise it's just bad sportsmanship to keep leaving queues over and over and over again because you told the system and everyone else in that queue you would play it by hitting that button. If you had no intention of playing that queue then you shouldn't hit random and tell the system and by extension the other 4 people that you're willing to play it. That just hampers their ability to complete the queue because someone else is a bad sport. (This is "you" in the general sense and not you specifically.)

    This is a little incorrect Darkblade.

    We had older Events that were available in the random Que section, like Pahvo Dissension? The space one everyone complained was a copy paste? I get the Pahvo ground and space confused often. And the devs specifically mentioned removing it from the random option after a few days, so I can understand why there would be confusion for this event being available in the random
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's not broken, though. It's functioning as it should. It's just that a) Mycelial Realm is being queued constantly for the event, and b) there's no cooldown, which was done on purpose, to prevent being thrown back into it.
    But it's not working as it should. Event queues are, or at least were, supposed to be excluded from random.

    But it actually is working as intended. In this instance this the first event under the new system and it's not tied to just the new queue specifically. Part of the reason you couldn't random into an event is because a special version of the instance was typically rolled out for it. Case and point the Crystalline Catastrophe and how it used to be. There was the previous version of the queue and the queue we have now. When the event rolled around, the standard version is essentially disabled and the event version is enabled. Since it's not/wasn't the standard version of the queue, it wasn't included in the random system since it was only supposed to be available for a time. If you wanted to do the event version you had to specifically queue for it and your teammates would be chosen at random from folks who also specifically queued for it.
    The Mycelial TFO is "special" in exactly the same way that all the Feature TFOs were "special," namely lacking a cooldown and being available only in Normal.

    The single best reason to exclude event queues from random is precisely the issue in this thread. To prevent the random queue from becoming an endless repeat of the same thing. Event queues don't need randos helping it to pop.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Is it working as designed? Yes.

    Should it be changed to exclude any current event TFO? I think also yes. I agree that to enjoy a random TFO it should give a decent chance of getting something less common. That might mean also excluding ISA and the Federation starbase defense.

    Either that, or have 2 random: "Next Available Queue (enjoy ISA or event)" and "Chance at something uncommon"
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    The prevalence of ISA in random queues is greatly exaggerated. If anything, SB1 is the most common I see. Peeps probably still need discomarks.
  • darzil#7269 darzil Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The Mycelial TFO is "special" in exactly the same way that all the Feature TFOs were "special," namely lacking a cooldown and being available only in Normal.

    The single best reason to exclude event queues from random is precisely the issue in this thread. To prevent the random queue from becoming an endless repeat of the same thing. Event queues don't need randos helping it to pop.

    Or they should have a cooldown when encountered in random, perhaps (Though today I've done 4 randoms and not got it yet)
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Of course its working as designed. That doesn't mean it should have been designed to work this way. That is how it is "broken" it's working in a bad way.

    I'd suggest they put a 1hr lockout in the randomizer from it throwing you into the same queue. You would still be able to manually queue it again after the normal half hour cooldown, of course (or 0 cooldown in this case.)

    On normal queues there is that (well standard 30 min CD) it's just that the current situation is an exception to the rule.

    Yeah I apparently wasn't clear. My idea was that randomizer would give you 1 hour CD on the specific STF via randomizer, in addition to the 30 min CD normally. This would keep you from getting infected space or whatever every 30 minutes on normal days, and keep you from getting back to back to back special queues when those run. However if you wanted to run say ISA again after having randomized it you could still manually queue for it after the 30 minute cooldown, but it would be another 30 minutes before randomizer would throw it at you again.
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    I feel your pain OP. Unfortunately, that is the DEVs version of random. I passionately dislike the new TFO Mycelial ground but only way to get the rewards.
    I wish they honestly could had made it easier to alternate to any other PvE queues besides just the Mycelial. Patrols and the new episodes are even more boring and longer than the Mycelial ground event. Players usually will do the least amount of time to finish the dailies. Personal Endeavors are a great model of FUN grinds...these new event is a model of the most boring grind but just my opinion. Now back to some more grind bear-28.gif​​
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    I had the opposite the other night. The Universal was Do Random TFO. I changed the setting for the Random to Normal, figuring I would get the Mycelial TFO, killing two birds with one stone. Nope, the Random was.... 'Peril Over Pahvo'. 'Peril Over Pahvo'!!?? Geez, I would have thought 'Defense of Starbase 1' would more likely show up for Discovery TFOs.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    Working as intended as the OP is fully aware of. Despite the faux ignorance on the OP's behalf. The way that they system works is well known and easily spelled out and has been for about 1 year now.
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    westx211 wrote: »
    This is a little incorrect Darkblade.

    We had older Events that were available in the random Que section, like Pahvo Dissension? The space one everyone complained was a copy paste? I get the Pahvo ground and space confused often. And the devs specifically mentioned removing it from the random option after a few days, so I can understand why there would be confusion for this event being available in the random

    Read what I said again. I said part of the reason folks couldn't queue into events previously was the fact that the event version of several of the queues were only available for a limited time and used Crystalline Catastrophe as a well known example. When the event version rolled around, it disabled the standard version of the queue effectively removing it from the TFO list and the random system while the event version was active. The event version would appear in the list as something you could queue for, but you couldn't random group into it just by clicking the random button. Once the event ended and the event version of the queue disappeared, you could potentially random into the standard version again. I realize Crystalline isn't the best example to use for that but it's one folks know.

    In the case of the Pahvo queues, they were standard queues and not purely limited time queues like the Crystalline example. They never had event versions that vanished at the end of the event. They were essentially standard type queues that just happened to have an event you could progress by doing them. This is part of why they could appear as your random mode queue.
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's not broken, though. It's functioning as it should. It's just that a) Mycelial Realm is being queued constantly for the event, and b) there's no cooldown, which was done on purpose, to prevent being thrown back into it.
    But it's not working as it should. Event queues are, or at least were, supposed to be excluded from random.

    But it actually is working as intended. In this instance this the first event under the new system and it's not tied to just the new queue specifically. Part of the reason you couldn't random into an event is because a special version of the instance was typically rolled out for it. Case and point the Crystalline Catastrophe and how it used to be. There was the previous version of the queue and the queue we have now. When the event rolled around, the standard version is essentially disabled and the event version is enabled. Since it's not/wasn't the standard version of the queue, it wasn't included in the random system since it was only supposed to be available for a time. If you wanted to do the event version you had to specifically queue for it and your teammates would be chosen at random from folks who also specifically queued for it.
    The Mycelial TFO is "special" in exactly the same way that all the Feature TFOs were "special," namely lacking a cooldown and being available only in Normal.

    The single best reason to exclude event queues from random is precisely the issue in this thread. To prevent the random queue from becoming an endless repeat of the same thing. Event queues don't need randos helping it to pop.

    The simplest solution to this is to not do randoms on normal if you don't want to risk getting into the Mycelial run. Though I realize that's purely a band-aid solution. We can debate whether or not that queue should have a cooldown or not. With that said, I agree it should have a cooldown from the get go. However at the same time, just because the queue has no cooldown at the moment does not mean the random system is broken.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's not broken, though. It's functioning as it should. It's just that a) Mycelial Realm is being queued constantly for the event, and b) there's no cooldown, which was done on purpose, to prevent being thrown back into it.
    But it's not working as it should. Event queues are, or at least were, supposed to be excluded from random.

    But it actually is working as intended. In this instance this the first event under the new system and it's not tied to just the new queue specifically. Part of the reason you couldn't random into an event is because a special version of the instance was typically rolled out for it. Case and point the Crystalline Catastrophe and how it used to be. There was the previous version of the queue and the queue we have now. When the event rolled around, the standard version is essentially disabled and the event version is enabled. Since it's not/wasn't the standard version of the queue, it wasn't included in the random system since it was only supposed to be available for a time. If you wanted to do the event version you had to specifically queue for it and your teammates would be chosen at random from folks who also specifically queued for it.
    The Mycelial TFO is "special" in exactly the same way that all the Feature TFOs were "special," namely lacking a cooldown and being available only in Normal.

    The single best reason to exclude event queues from random is precisely the issue in this thread. To prevent the random queue from becoming an endless repeat of the same thing. Event queues don't need randos helping it to pop.

    The simplest solution to this is to not do randoms on normal if you don't want to risk getting into the Mycelial run. Though I realize that's purely a band-aid solution. We can debate whether or not that queue should have a cooldown or not. With that said, I agree it should have a cooldown from the get go. However at the same time, just because the queue has no cooldown at the moment does not mean the random system is broken.
    The random system is not broken. The devs have just forgotten to exclude the event TFO from it. And as others pointed out already, it's not the first time that's happened, either. Maybe they'll get around to fixing it one of these days.

    Not that I personally get why anyone would want to play RTFO on Normal anyway (since Advanced is no less impossible to lose and has double rewards), but the RTFO release announcement was very clear event TFOs are not meant to be in it.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Well on the bright side, since it seems to do this. I might just queue up random queue instead of doing it manually and see if I can't happen to get the event queue up twice that way and see if I can get extra marks and stuff. I am going to do this today and see what happens. So it might even be beneficial. Besides I need more non discovery marks. I've been doing the Discovery rep mainly with my romulan and been working to get it up to rank five after getting the mind meld device and then the shield might get the armor unlock to go with it.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
    I do not believe Mycelial Realm was forgotten to be excluded from RTFOs or cooldown. Not all players have alts, so a player would need to be able to immediately re-queue for MR if that's how they want to run the event (30+30). Being included in RTFOs would actually allow one to maximize potential earnings while running the event as well.
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  • duasynduasyn Member Posts: 492 Arc User
    Gotta be careful if the global Endeavor is a TFO you don't like. If you hit RTFO there's a real good chance that's where you'll go.
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