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  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 873 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    There really isn't any more information that they could give on the system itself. The article is complete. There will be a new UI, progress will be counted automatically like in the ship coupon event, bonus dil will be given for continuing after completion and it will all be account-wide. What else is there to know?

    Details about individual events and their rewards would be posted when the events actually run.

    No?
    What about what exactly happens if you can't complete a project when it first runs? Can you complete it next time or are you forced to pay zen to complete it? The blog here suggest the latter but according to Kael in Ten Forward it's the former.

    Further, what about uncompleted projects? What about tokens left over from the current system? That is necessary information as that is part and parcel of the change. Even if the information is "Sorry people, you're out of luck. Old, incomplete projects will be cancelled with no rewards and tokens will be deleted."
    (Before some people who are bad at reading comprehension accuses me of bashing anyone I'm not saying they're going to do this, I'm using it as a hypothetical example. Whatever they're going to do it would have been a good time to tell us. If not in this specific blog then in a co-posted blog about the system changes.)

    Perhaps what has people so miffed and upset is that they're so busy showing off a new UI (we don't even get to see, but whatever) that they're leaving out information on the system changes. On top of that there's a continued lack of communication about this information with little over a week to go, though hints are dropping here and there, such as Kael in Ten Forward but no public announcements. It makes it a little hard to trust them as far as I'm concerned. Them, again for those with difficulties with reading comprehension, being Cryptic as a whole.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • fun4ever#6757 fun4ever Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    I realy like those changes, select any character you want and just do events. No more different tokens, no more projexts... just enjoy event and get reward.

    ...
    All i see in this thread is the same ~10 whine ppl (very loud minority), posting same whine tldr posts, attacking dev again and again for no reason - why??? There is not much info on how new event system will work, only basics...
    And vast majority like those changes (or dont care) - thats why only 5 pages and few whine-complainers here...
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 8,200 Arc User
    I realy like those changes, select any character you want and just do events. No more different tokens, no more projexts... just enjoy event and get reward.

    ...
    All i see in this thread is the same ~10 whine ppl (very loud minority), posting same whine tldr posts, attacking dev again and again for no reason - why??? There is not much info on how new event system will work, only basics...
    And vast majority like those changes (or dont care) - thats why only 5 pages and few whine-complainers here...

    I'm sorry...but the fact that there is not much information IS THE BLOODY PROBLEM. Having our work and money possibly wiped out AGAIN is worrisome. The fact that our work and money WAS wiped out for no bloody reason as the system they introduced is going to be removed in a few months is also a problem. So...yeah there are a lot of problems...all brought on by the devs.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    There really isn't any more information that they could give on the system itself. The article is complete. There will be a new UI, progress will be counted automatically like in the ship coupon event, bonus dil will be given for continuing after completion and it will all be account-wide. What else is there to know?

    Details about individual events and their rewards would be posted when the events actually run.

    No?
    What about what exactly happens if you can't complete a project when it first runs? Can you complete it next time or are you forced to pay zen to complete it? The blog here suggest the latter but according to Kael in Ten Forward it's the former.
    They have never promised you would be able to continue unfinished events later before, so why would you expect them to start now?
    Further, what about uncompleted projects? What about tokens left over from the current system? That is necessary information as that is part and parcel of the change. Even if the information is "Sorry people, you're out of luck. Old, incomplete projects will be cancelled with no rewards and tokens will be deleted."
    What is it necesssary for? Whatever happens to the projects, us knowing about it won't change anything. I'm sure there will be notice when it happens. It's not really relevant to the new system.

    And in any case, it's not even that hard to guess what will happen to them anyway. The projects will go away with the UI that housed them (maybe with rewards like last time, maybe not...if they didn't like the outcome of last time) and the tokens will either become useless or be deleted, since the new system doesn't use tokens anymore. There, it's been said. May the complaining begin.
  • fun4ever#6757 fun4ever Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I'm sorry...but the fact that there is not much information IS THE BLOODY PROBLEM. Having our work and money possibly wiped out AGAIN is worrisome. The fact that our work and money WAS wiped out for no bloody reason as the system they introduced is going to be removed in a few months is also a problem. So...yeah there are a lot of problems...all brought on by the devs.

    1. Its just a GAME (i play it for long time, and like it).

    2. This GAME is NOT WORK for me, and i dont lose anything (NOTHING WIPED) with those changes...

    3. And again - Events (most of them) takes ~5 minutes per day, (Most of ppl daily routine - eating/bathroom/take shower/sleeping - takes hours)... If you dont bother to spend ~5 minutes to do event - its only your problem...

    4. Ppl which are dont bother to play event (only slotting project) is not dev problem! (And only those kind of very loud ppl whine here from page to page).

    5. Do not play event - do not get reward... This is logical, and fair...

  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 873 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I'm sorry...but the fact that there is not much information IS THE BLOODY PROBLEM. Having our work and money possibly wiped out AGAIN is worrisome. The fact that our work and money WAS wiped out for no bloody reason as the system they introduced is going to be removed in a few months is also a problem. So...yeah there are a lot of problems...all brought on by the devs.

    1. Its just a GAME (i play it for long time, and like it).

    2. This GAME is NOT WORK for me, and i dont lose anything (NOTHING WIPED) with those changes...

    3. And again - Events (most of them) takes ~5 minutes per day, (Most of ppl daily routine - eating/bathroom/take shower/sleeping - takes hours)... If you dont bother to spend ~5 minutes to do event - its only your problem...

    4. Ppl which are dont bother to play event (only slotting project) is not dev problem! (And only those kind of very loud ppl whine here from page to page).

    5. Do not play event - do not get reward... This is logical, and fair...

    I see, disingenuous troll or someone who doesn't read. Either way, irrelevant person. Thank you for clarifying that.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I'm sorry...but the fact that there is not much information IS THE BLOODY PROBLEM. Having our work and money possibly wiped out AGAIN is worrisome. The fact that our work and money WAS wiped out for no bloody reason as the system they introduced is going to be removed in a few months is also a problem. So...yeah there are a lot of problems...all brought on by the devs.

    1. Its just a GAME (i play it for long time, and like it).

    2. This GAME is NOT WORK for me, and i dont lose anything (NOTHING WIPED) with those changes...

    3. And again - Events (most of them) takes ~5 minutes per day, (Most of ppl daily routine - eating/bathroom/take shower/sleeping - takes hours)... If you dont bother to spend ~5 minutes to do event - its only your problem...

    4. Ppl which are dont bother to play event (only slotting project) is not dev problem! (And only those kind of very loud ppl whine here from page to page).

    5. Do not play event - do not get reward... This is logical, and fair...

    You know i can agree to some extent with what you have said. Yes its a game only not a job and not work. As to the reward and not able to play well lets say that real life happens and the 5 min a day to do an event for some is out of reach. On the great lakes ship workers do a 30 day on the job. Then get 30 days off. There ability to have such projects and trinkets can be impossible to do more than add the project and either do the play later. Or can use tokens they have collected in prior events to get the item.

    This is just one type of job there are a lot job with crazy hours and work loads that rage from mining in the gold fields up north, Board room and finance jobs. Ship workers in several fields from fishing to off shore oil rigs to the navy. Real life tends to take front and center to do the things like pay bills.
    All i see in this thread is the same ~10 whine ppl (very loud minority), posting same whine tldr posts, attacking dev again and again for no reason - why??? There is not much info on how new event system will work, only basics...
    And vast majority like those changes (or dont care) - thats why only 5 pages and few whine-complainers here...

    This is something that i need to have pointed out as how people want more information about the system it self. The how and what is going to happen? Along with future event items having a buy out? Or are the items going in the zstore? Will they stay in one slot requiring you to dismiss the event to work on a current one forcing the issue of pay now or for ever have lost that option of the event item? What about multi events running at the same time? How many slots if available for projects will the system have and what type all universal or dedicated slots to different events summer/winter? Weekend event? If one slot the how long and many events will be let to stack behind each other before having lost the ability to get them?

    There are a lot of unanswered questions that spring to mind regarding this change and to be frank i dont enjoy being called a (whine-complainers) over wanting more information and see few if any Dev bashing or attacks on them.

    I do see some concerned people about this. Are some over doing there concerns? Its possible and some depending on view points could say yes its over doing it. But to call those concerned and having questions and past events not finished for what ever reason a (very loud minority) i find wrong when people are for the most part civil to everyone and requesting some information.

    In the end you are right what will happen will happen we have no say what so ever about it. But as a player and by extension a customer we can make choices on what we do and how we see a value or lack there of in this game. And react as we feel we must in regards to time and money invested in a game. And decide if such investment has value to retain them.

    I have been a lifetime member from before launch and will be here for the end when ever that will be as not a thing last for ever. But i can care as to what happens between now and then. And what ever effects the community effects me by extension. And provides the reason i ask questions and want information.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 457 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    ilithyn wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    There really isn't any more information that they could give on the system itself. The article is complete. There will be a new UI, progress will be counted automatically like in the ship coupon event, bonus dil will be given for continuing after completion and it will all be account-wide. What else is there to know?

    Details about individual events and their rewards would be posted when the events actually run.

    No?
    What about what exactly happens if you can't complete a project when it first runs? Can you complete it next time or are you forced to pay zen to complete it? The blog here suggest the latter but according to Kael in Ten Forward it's the former.
    They have never promised you would be able to continue unfinished events later before, so why would you expect them to start now?
    The problem is not that they promised anything, the problem is that the info is far from complete and what they've said is worrisome: they don't want us to be able to complete unfinished events later on? Cool, then why the hell will it be possible to BUY the reward from the C-Store?
    Further, what about uncompleted projects? What about tokens left over from the current system? That is necessary information as that is part and parcel of the change. Even if the information is "Sorry people, you're out of luck. Old, incomplete projects will be cancelled with no rewards and tokens will be deleted."
    What is it necesssary for? Whatever happens to the projects, us knowing about it won't change anything. I'm sure there will be notice when it happens. It's not really relevant to the new system.

    On the contrary, it's very relevant to the new system.
    The tokens, especially. They've said "keep it, something good is coming!" without giving out any new information.
    But since the new system won't use tokens, and we don't know what this "good" that's coming is gonna be, how can we make an informed decision? We can't, simple as that.

    All in all, as we've been saying since the beginning, the news post is sorely lacking information. That's the main problem: they're saying "we're gonna change stuff (that didn't need to be changed)" and that's it.
    How is the bonus dilithium going to work? What's gonna happen with the unfished events, a part from the "buy the reward from the C-Store" thing? And what about the current tokens?
    They're not hard questions. Worse, they're questions they knew - or should've known - we were gonna ask. So why aren't the answer ready? Why weren't they in the news post in the first place?
    May the complaining begin.
    Nice sarcasm, there. But maybe, since it's clear you don't care about it either way, try some empathy, uhm?
    But that's probably too much to ask for.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 11,417 Arc User
    If you had expressed support or agreed with the manner they are handling this, sarcasm would still have resulted.

    Contrarianism.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 8,200 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I'm sorry...but the fact that there is not much information IS THE BLOODY PROBLEM. Having our work and money possibly wiped out AGAIN is worrisome. The fact that our work and money WAS wiped out for no bloody reason as the system they introduced is going to be removed in a few months is also a problem. So...yeah there are a lot of problems...all brought on by the devs.

    1. Its just a GAME (i play it for long time, and like it).

    2. This GAME is NOT WORK for me, and i dont lose anything (NOTHING WIPED) with those changes...

    3. And again - Events (most of them) takes ~5 minutes per day, (Most of ppl daily routine - eating/bathroom/take shower/sleeping - takes hours)... If you dont bother to spend ~5 minutes to do event - its only your problem...

    4. Ppl which are dont bother to play event (only slotting project) is not dev problem! (And only those kind of very loud ppl whine here from page to page).

    5. Do not play event - do not get reward... This is logical, and fair...

    I'm sorry...but BWHAHAHAHAHAHA.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    Alright, now we've gone to bashing on each other. Can we all just calm down, please, and wait for them to release more information?
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  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 873 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    Alright, I'm tired of asking. Stop.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of PWE/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of PWE/Cryptic
    Contact Customer Support --> https://support.arcgames.com
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 11,417 Arc User
    We should stay together and not bash each other. That is what Cryptic is for. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    We should stay together and not bash each other. That is what Cryptic is for. :)

    I would say we should not bash any one here or the devs. That's not to say i have not mouthed off even if in my view a jocular way with crudity that was removed. So no saint in this regard simply we should hold judgment on each other and cryptic. At least in so far as we don't have any information to do such about other than a lack luster plan we cant know about yet. Where most if not all the issue of this multi page thread is from in the first place.

    In any case just the latest use less post in this thread from me why trying and hoping to get a reply or link to some announcement before it gets locked. So we shall see.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,092 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Alright, now we've gone to bashing on each other. Can we all just calm down, please, and wait for them to release more information?

    While I agree with the no bashing the waiting for more information is not reasonable. We should have been told right from the start as it has a massive impact on some of us and for some people involves spending real money. For example I wasn't 100% sure if I should run the last days of the last event daily or due to the changes that would now be a waste of time and I shouldn't be running them. For some players that might now be hours of wasted time. For others that spent money on tokens well you cannot blame them for being upset either. This entire situations has been handled badly and shouldn't be like this after what is only a matter of months since last time the devs charged events an tokens.

    It wouldn't have been so bad if the devs just answered some of the concerns instead of ignoring reasonably questions that matter.

    Typically we are allowed to see these systems before they go live giving the devs chance to make improvements and for problem areas to be spotted. I already have a number of concerns another one on top of my earlier posts are will I be able to at a glace tell how many days I have ran and how many days I have left without pausing and doing a bunch of maths. At the moment that take a fraction of a second. The new system sounds like its going be a pain to work out, it might not be but if it is we need to be able to give feedback before it goes live so it can be improved before the live date.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    ilithyn wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    There really isn't any more information that they could give on the system itself. The article is complete. There will be a new UI, progress will be counted automatically like in the ship coupon event, bonus dil will be given for continuing after completion and it will all be account-wide. What else is there to know?

    Details about individual events and their rewards would be posted when the events actually run.

    No?
    What about what exactly happens if you can't complete a project when it first runs? Can you complete it next time or are you forced to pay zen to complete it? The blog here suggest the latter but according to Kael in Ten Forward it's the former.
    They have never promised you would be able to continue unfinished events later before, so why would you expect them to start now?
    The problem is not that they promised anything, the problem is that the info is far from complete and what they've said is worrisome: they don't want us to be able to complete unfinished events later on? Cool, then why the hell will it be possible to BUY the reward from the C-Store?
    Because they're running a business and selling stuff is how they stay in business.
    Further, what about uncompleted projects? What about tokens left over from the current system? That is necessary information as that is part and parcel of the change. Even if the information is "Sorry people, you're out of luck. Old, incomplete projects will be cancelled with no rewards and tokens will be deleted."
    What is it necesssary for? Whatever happens to the projects, us knowing about it won't change anything. I'm sure there will be notice when it happens. It's not really relevant to the new system.

    On the contrary, it's very relevant to the new system.
    The tokens, especially. They've said "keep it, something good is coming!" without giving out any new information.
    But since the new system won't use tokens, and we don't know what this "good" that's coming is gonna be, how can we make an informed decision? We can't, simple as that.
    They've never told players to keep tokens. On the contrary, they have always pointed out the project to turn in excess tokens for dil&marks after event completion.

    And in any case, there is no decision to be made, informed or otherwise. The Sompek event was the last chance to spend the tokens. If you didn't use your tokens during the Sompek event, it's too late now.
    All in all, as we've been saying since the beginning, the news post is sorely lacking information. That's the main problem: they're saying "we're gonna change stuff (that didn't need to be changed)" and that's it.
    How is the bonus dilithium going to work? What's gonna happen with the unfished events, a part from the "buy the reward from the C-Store" thing? And what about the current tokens?
    They're not hard questions. Worse, they're questions they knew - or should've known - we were gonna ask. So why aren't the answer ready? Why weren't they in the news post in the first place?
    No, they're not questions at all.

    -If you've completed the event already, any further "progress" you would earn will be converted into dilithium.
    -Unfinished events can be finished with Zen. Or maybe they can be continued during reruns, like before, but no promises, just like before. They are NOT going to give promises about it.
    -The tokens are history.
    May the complaining begin.
    Nice sarcasm, there. But maybe, since it's clear you don't care about it either way, try some empathy, uhm?
    But that's probably too much to ask for.​​
    It's not sarcasm. People are going to whine about losing their token hoards (again).

    I showed some empathy when they deleted the old tokens, and advised people to spend their spare FTFO tokens while they had the chance. Because this was obviously coming. Now, what comes to mind is mostly "I told you so."
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,241 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    warpangel wrote: »

    On the contrary, it's very relevant to the new system.
    The tokens, especially. They've said "keep it, something good is coming!" without giving out any new information.
    But since the new system won't use tokens, and we don't know what this "good" that's coming is gonna be, how can we make an informed decision? We can't, simple as that.
    They've never told players to keep tokens. On the contrary, they have always pointed out the project to turn in excess tokens for dil&marks after event completion.

    And in any case, there is no decision to be made, informed or otherwise. The Sompek event was the last chance to spend the tokens. If you didn't use your tokens during the Sompek event, it's too late now.
    Yeah, but literally no:
    I have a little additional information I can share with you, to answer a few common questions that've come up here and elsewhere.
    what will happen with stockpiled FTFO tokens?

    We also have a plan in place for these. Hold onto them until we're ready to announce that!
    Not "the tokens will no longer be useful but you will get a little compensation, but don't expect something huge" or something like that. Literally "We have a plan, [...] HOLD ONTO THEM".

    Once, again, that's one of the major issues with the lack of info.

    When a company literally tells you "this item you may have stockpiled because our system was designed for it will no longer be used BUT hold onto them for something", you expect something good or at least OK to happen to this item.

    Otherwise, the company goes blankly "we're sorry to inform you this item is obsolete and will be of no use anymore, but you'll get a little something maybe if you stockpiled them anyway". And they do that BEFORE or DURING the last event featuring them. Not a couple of days before the event ends. And if they're ethical enough, they don't let you buy them with money... or at least leave a warning saying "this item will be retired after this run, don't buy more than you need for its last run."


    Oh also, one more thing.

    THIS.
    IS.
    A.
    MMO!

    MMO are designed on collecting a lot of stuff! Collecting non-white-icon, non-tradeable, linked-to-a-quest/event items is the standard behavior expected in this kind of game because the game genre has conditioned you to keep track of these kinds of items because they're very likely to be used for something that may require a good chunk of them sooner or later as you level up. And if said item can be purchased for money, you're most likely to think "whoa, this thing is some serious stuff and here to last for a while but for a recurring time-limited event, especially if you have to pay 10$ worth of it and it's not even enough to complete one event".
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »

    On the contrary, it's very relevant to the new system.
    The tokens, especially. They've said "keep it, something good is coming!" without giving out any new information.
    But since the new system won't use tokens, and we don't know what this "good" that's coming is gonna be, how can we make an informed decision? We can't, simple as that.
    They've never told players to keep tokens. On the contrary, they have always pointed out the project to turn in excess tokens for dil&marks after event completion.

    And in any case, there is no decision to be made, informed or otherwise. The Sompek event was the last chance to spend the tokens. If you didn't use your tokens during the Sompek event, it's too late now.
    Yeah, but literally no:
    I have a little additional information I can share with you, to answer a few common questions that've come up here and elsewhere.
    what will happen with stockpiled FTFO tokens?

    We also have a plan in place for these. Hold onto them until we're ready to announce that!
    Not "the tokens will no longer be useful but you will get a little compensation, but don't expect something huge" or something like that. Literally "We have a plan, [...] HOLD ONTO THEM".
    That's from this thread. They never told you to stockpile them while you could actually stockpile them. Borticus was just giving a tip for people who did stockpile them anyway, not to hastily discard the now-useless tokens since they may be doing something with them.

    But as usual here, dev goodwill gets thrown in their faces.
    Otherwise, the company goes blankly "we're sorry to inform you this item is obsolete and will be of no use anymore, but you'll get a little something maybe if you stockpiled them anyway".
    Well duh, because that's exactly what they did say.

    Whether the people here deserve a little something I'm not so sure about.
    MMO are designed on collecting a lot of stuff! Collecting non-white-icon, non-tradeable, linked-to-a-quest/event items is the standard behavior
    Yes. And those event items being exclusive to the event they came from is also standard. As discussed during the last token purge, players' took a risk betting on their assumption that the tokens would be used again, instead of spending them when they could, and they lost.

    Fortunately, the new system will no longer feature any tokens to keep, so this will be the last time people lose that bet.
  • fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 625 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    After seeing the math against the total points needed - 1200 points / max earned 45 in 1 event equates to 26 days to earn 1200 points, I have now learned that STO has learned nothing, This will end up being MORE grinding than the standard 14 day system. hrm, what a step backwards, you say make it easier, and now its MORE work and stress for those of us who cant grind every day. * your supposed to have fun in a game this isnt fun* I am going to have to decide if i really care about the rewards cause 26 days every month is very draining to me and very stressful. For me it will be quite irritating to do all of whats needed and NOT fun. The day i end up going back on full time i would be forced to quit the game due to a full time job preventing the ability to put the time necessary on the game to accomplish game goals if you wish to participate in them all. Due to the amount of time it now takes to play the new monthly events I have decided effective immediately all characters except one will be deleted. Also, I would rather go without a prize rather than be forced to pay a settlement fee to get what i cant get due to the new point system being sooo unfair.
    Post edited by fred26291#2759 on
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,092 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    tomilak wrote: »
    After seeing the math against the total points needed, I have now learned that STO has learned nothing, This will end up being MORE grinding than the standard 14 day system. hrm, what a step backwards, you say make it easier, and now its MORE work and stress for those of us who cant grind every day. * your supposed to have fun in a game this isnt fun* I am going to have to decide if i really care about the rewards cause 20 days every month is very draining to me and very stressful. For me it will be quite irritating to do all of whats needed and NOT fun.
    Isn't it worse then that. Not only is it 6 days longer but you have to grind twice a day every day so the same as 40days of grinding in the old system. In other words we have gone from 14days to 40days or twice a day for 20days. The more I hear about this system the more it sounds like a giant step backwards.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 457 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    "I confess myself... disappointed" (forgive me for this bit of Lord Voldemort's attitude).

    There's not much more to say, unfortunately. The decision has been made and I highly doubt they will go back on it and change it, at least not for months to come.
    Still, I will allow myself to say this: 6.000 Zen for the buyout option is excessive, especially considering what a T6 ship is currently worth on the C-Store and the fact that there are bundles that cost just as much... and give much more than this.
    And the "dynamic scale" is absurd, (do the math and see how many points you will have to rack up anyway if you want to pay the same amount - without the discount - as the previous buyout option).

    I'd like to know how long the event(s) will last, though. Because with 20 days necessary to build up enough points to get the rewards, I sure as hell hope it/they won't last only for 21 days. Not to mention the fact that that would make the bonus worthless.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 826 Arc User
    GET REWARDS QUICKER? By TRIBBLE me out of my work from all past events, I did the events, I banked them, they should count for this and other events until they are gone.
    Positive thoughts.
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,241 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    They've never told players to keep tokens. On the contrary, they have always pointed out the project to turn in excess tokens for dil&marks after event completion.
    Description of the FTFO tokens: "This FTFO commendation can be turned in to collect rewards from Featured TFO events".
    Now, let's check a certain part of this literal description:
    "to collect rewards from Featured TFO events"

    Now, the point I wanna emphasize: "eventS".

    Plural. They WERE designed to be used for several events. One commendation was not for the "current event" or something, it was for several ones.

    Also, as others pointed out these commendations didn't even last one year and were used to combine other tokens into one type for streamlining. And until then, tokens not supposed to be stockpiled were clearly specified, by adding the year, for the summer, winter and anniversary events, so we could know we could stop bothering after collecting the required number.

    And that happened close to the time where we got a tier VI in reputations. Where those who stockpiled reputation marks turned out to have made the right choice.

    So for some things, stockpiling stuff is good but for others, it's not.
    But as usual here, dev goodwill gets thrown in their faces.
    Goodwill would have been to tell us when the event started: "also, we're retiring the commendations for Awakening after that Sompek event, so if you have some from older events, be sure to use these as we dunno yet what will happen with unused ones! We're still leaving the option to buy 10 in the C-Store, just in case.", not give us the surprise once it's too late.

    EDIT: Especially since now it'll take about 20 days to complete a normal event instead of 14 and the option to avoid the grind starts at 6,000 Zen (then it gets cheaper, yes, but it's still starting at 6 times more than what we had).
    Well duh, because that's exactly what they did say.
    When the event was over
    Not when it was in progress or before so people could know not to bother stockpiling them. Literally just when it ended, which means some players may have played for at least 6 tokens for possibly nothing.


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  • iamynaughtiamynaught Member Posts: 1,179 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Okay, new information has been released and it does indeed sound much worse than what it's meant to be replacing. So instead of running the "event" once a day to get the token, I now have to run a queue twice a day to may the same progress?

    On top of that, what used to be a tedious 14 days out of 21 days grind has been turned into a MINIMUM of 20 days out of who knows because that info hasn't been released yet. And at the very least with this first event needing to do multiple things in order to get the max progress is, in my opinion, stupid.

    Old System

    Run an event mission or queue once, max progress done for the day. Slot a project on the first day, get a token, slot said token, done. Do that 13 more times and simple enough, you're done.

    New System

    Run an event mission, queue or now patrol and make some progress. Run 4 patrols to make max progress, way the heck too grindy. Run 2 queues to make max progress, potentially better, depending on how long the queue is. If it takes more than 5 minutes for each run, too grindy. Run the event related mission and 1 patrol. Again, potentially okay, but if the mission takes more than 10 minutes and the patrol takes more than 5 minutes, way too grindy.

    Was slotting a project once, and then adding the tokens to it daily really such a chore that the dev team felt they needed to spend their valuable time thinking up this convoluted new system? Let alone working out the rather muddled details for said system. And then they decided to make it even more of a grind than the old system?

    If I had a choice to pick which system I'd rather use, I'd take the old system every time. It's so much simpler than this new system. This new system appears to just be another way to monetize the game. I understand the game needs to make money but this is pathetic. They want 6k zen for a T6 ship and a couple other doodads. Wow, just wow.

    I won't write the system off until I actually play it, but if it takes more than 20 minutes total to earn the max rewards per day, than in my eyes, this system is a complete and total failure. That doesn't mean the game will die or anything like that, I doubt it would have anywhere near that kind of impact. Perhaps it'll be extremely well received and bring in new players and revitalize the game for many years to come.

    For me however, my game time is becoming more and more limited and I was barely keeping up with the old system at times. This new system may just mean I'll no longer be able to get the event items anymore. Which is a HUGE reason I still play. And if I'm not getting the event items, that means I'm likely not playing the events at all and leads me to be playing even less. But, again, I'm a single voice on the wind and I could easily and fully accept I could very well be in the minority.

    Guess we'll see what happens, but I'm not optimistic.
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 8,200 Arc User
    To the people who complain that this system is longer than the 14 day events...well yes, but this is a ship they are giving away. This is more in line with the winter and summer events which does require 40 days of running their respective events. However, those events are SUPER short...more in line with patrols and not full on TFO unless we are talking about none time gated ones like ISA or CCA. So while their claim of it's quicker is an out right lie at this point, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Now if future events that gives the random gear follow this exact system...yeah that's gonna be an issue. And once again no mention of what happen to our tokens...guess they become wiped again. I was tepid about this the first time but yeah...so much not this time. The devs really don't want me to play the game it seems. I would almost always do event...because why not, it lets me bank up for if there are problems in the future. And the only time I did not do an event, it was because real life kicked in and I could not so I used my bank of tokens to get the reward...because the 50k dil is always useful. Now under this system, unless I actually want the reward (since there is no 50k dil reward) I'm not even gonna bother. This will literally make me play less...not more. But it seems the devs really don't want my money...or hell even me around as a player anymore. So they can chase other people's money...but I am done supporting this game at all. Not only that, this game has gone from one I would always recommend to people looking for a good F2P game to one that I don't mention to one that I actively tell them NOT to play now. So congrats devs, you turned a fan of your game into a complete detractor now.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 34,176 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    To the people who complain that this system is longer than the 14 day events...well yes, but this is a ship they are giving away. This is more in line with the winter and summer events which does require 40 days of running their respective events.

    it does not. it requires TWENTY FIVE days​​
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  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 3,855 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    So you can run 2 TFO or 4 patrols for 20 days. I mean, that's not good. It could be ok if the TFO is very short - but that would be a case by case thing and highly unlikely. More likely is that it will be time gated to be at least 15 min. If it is say 15-20 min and the patrols are like 3 min I'll be doing 4 patrols.

    I guess it will be around 40 days like winter wonderland. though it may be a little shorter if they want to further limit dil rewards for continued play.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 11,417 Arc User
    It is 25 days, not 40. The 40 you are thinking of is 40 dohickies a day awarded.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 34,176 Arc User
    So you can run 2 TFO or 4 patrols for 20 days. I mean, that's not good. It could be ok if the TFO is very short - but that would be a case by case thing and highly unlikely. More likely is that it will be time gated to be at least 15 min. If it is say 15-20 min and the patrols are like 3 min I'll be doing 4 patrols.

    I guess it will be around 35 days like winter wonderland. though it may be a little shorter if they want to further limit dil rewards for continued play.

    patrols are likely not going to be 3 minutes, since they've already gone on record saying each one will take approximately 8 minutes​​
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