XMPP Sunset

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  • phoenix841
    phoenix841 Member Posts: 484 Arc User
    luckyyahoo wrote: »
    I have no idea what this means. Can we get more details as to what is affected?

    If you don't know what it means, then it doesn't affect you.
    Simply put, what is being closed is the ability players have been using to communicate with players currently in-game, via something like Discord or Pidgin (chat program). Meaning you didn't actually have to have the game open, but could talk to your fleetmates or chat in channels like NoP Public Service.

    If you never did that, this doesn't affect you.
    LTS Since Beta (Jan 2010).
  • razar2380
    razar2380 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @razar2380 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > > @razar2380 said:
    > > That's off. Since I came back to the game in December, I haven't had any gold farmers contact me in chat. However, I have had over 20 in-game mails from gold farmers. And 6 of those all came from the exact same toon, and @handle. So, is removing a feature that a lot of players use going to stop the mail spam also?
    > >
    > > I really don't see how this is going to stop so many gold farmers advertising in the game. If gold farmers were ever actually using this feature, then they were paying Cryptic $300 ($200 when on sale) to advertise. But, they are able to advertise for free in this game anyway.
    > >
    > > Whether they spent the money to get LTS, or not, it takes the same amount of time to start a new account. And since the game is free to play, they can start advertising without spending any money. Why would they spend hundreds of $$ to do that they have been doing for almost 10 years for free?
    > >
    > > I think it is really because they don't want to take the time to keep this feature updated, so they are just kicking it to the curb like they did the foundry. I just wonder how many other features of the game will get kicked to the curb, just because they don't want to take the time to work on them. (Makes me wonder how much longer Klingons/Romulans have, before getting kicked out too. lol.).
    > >
    > > Razar.
    >
    > Foundry was removed because nobody still at Cryptic knew how to fix it anymore, not because they didn't want to. So much hystrionic TRIBBLE on these forums.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That is exactly my point. They didn't want to take the time to learn how to fix it so that they can keep it. Instead, they would rather remove the feature that so many players use. Same thing here. You might not like what people are saying. But insulting people by saying, "So much hystrionic TRIBBLE on these forums." doesn't add to the conversation in any way. It is just an attempt to attack others.
    >
    > Razar.

    Firstly, no they did not decide they juat didn't want to work on it. They tried for years with foundry breaking constantly. It was removed after determining that it was not feasible financially or in man hours to continue, it was a reluctant decision. You are right on one thing though, it is the same here, they have reluctantly decided to remove a little used feature that most didn't even know about, that costs an inordinate amount to maintain.

    The attacks on Cryptic, in violation of forum rules, and calling them liars, also a violation of rules, means I have no respect for those making them, and will be responding in that vein. These atacks and accusations are the very definition of hystrionic TRIBBLE, and I won't pretend otherwise.

    "hystrionic TRIBBLE, and I won't pretend otherwise." So you will continue them. Okay. Nice to know.

    Razar,
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • baddmoonrizin
    baddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,384 Community Moderator
    Quit your bickering. And stop derailing the thread with talk about the Foundry.
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  • trillbuffet
    trillbuffet Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    A step in the right direction and possibly removal of chat where it is not needed. More communication abilities for places "IN GAME" like battlezones for instance. If people want something that does what they have been using this for there are plenty of things like discord for those kind of people into that. The direction is sound though cutting the dead weight to make this game a better experience for people playing it is far better than crying over an overrated answering machine.
  • anodynes
    anodynes Member Posts: 1,982 Arc User
    akfender wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I've never even heard of this honestly. So I don't get where people are saying this is a lifer perk being taken away.

    Read the (possibly old now, if they've already updated it) LTS perks. XMPP is (was) one of them.

    It isn't actually on there. It may have been mentioned in the Benefits Matrix table back when the game went free-to-play, but you would have to go find that in the Wayback Machine, because it didn't make the transition to the Arc site. So, for the last five years or more, it's been an unadvertised bonus of subscribing/Lifetime Subscription.
    altran3301 wrote: »

    "Technical challenges" = "We've lost the people who bother/know how, to maintain things like this and the foundry, but we're scared to admit it".

    I would say that's fair, except for the last clause. Less "scared to admit it" and more "not enough people use it to justify the effort in keeping it secure." Honestly, that's probably why the Foundry was removed, too. We all think that what we like is liked by enough others to justify the effort in maintaining said thing, but that's just confirmation bias at work. We tend to hang around others with similar interests, and form our own echo chambers.
    This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
  • appletonmccool
    appletonmccool Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    This is terrible, it was a main selling point in getting LTS, also fireworks obviously, I have countless support tickets saying the same when I had issues with it...

    Firstly I don't think this is a widely used service outside of the loyal, regular players.

    Being able to review chat logs about misbehaving fleet members is great and has helped resolve many issues, the removal of this service is a great loss to fleet management.

    Seeing PM's sent when offline, from fleet to friends about issues, being 'always reachable' is also going to be a loss.

    Chat channels mods being able to keep tabs on it without being in game is extremely useful, this to will be a loss.

    EDIT:
    How could I forget playing in windowed mode and having pidgin open so I can change characters and not miss whats in chat, this is the greatest loss to me.

    This is only a loss and I don't understand the gain you get from turning it off. Gold spammers, seriously?

    EDIT2:
    So now fleet management, channel mods or anyone trying to deal with something that a chat log could easily answer, will ask for screencaps from players and confirm with support? That should be fun...

    Not getting mad or anything just really baffled by this, please elaborate and clarify the reasoning being the removal of such a useful, if only used by few, service?
    Post edited by appletonmccool on
  • phoenix841
    phoenix841 Member Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    A step in the right direction and possibly removal of chat where it is not needed. More communication abilities for places "IN GAME" like battlezones for instance. If people want something that does what they have been using this for there are plenty of things like discord for those kind of people into that. The direction is sound though cutting the dead weight to make this game a better experience for people playing it is far better than crying over an overrated answering machine.

    No, there is nothing else like this.
    This specifically allowed players who are not logged in to chat with logged in players.

    New players aren't going to know which discord to go to, or even know to go to a discord server, for example.
    They are going to ask in game. The more people available to provide good help, the better off that player would be. Losing that access means there's less players available to offer help throughout the day.

    Not to mention, I'm sure there are players that like to watch TheTradingChannel for offers. It's easier to have a chat window open separately and do other stuff and wait for a ping. You can provide instant response, then simply load up the game to make the trade.

    I'm not saying everyone uses it, but there are plenty of people that have been recipients of this feature, and not even known it. Particularly for the first point.

    PS.
    Neverwinter and STO are on the same chat server. You can chat with STO users while playing NW, and vice versa. Is this going away too?
    LTS Since Beta (Jan 2010).
  • lezard21
    lezard21 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    (Cross-posting comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • phoenix841
    phoenix841 Member Posts: 484 Arc User
    luckyyahoo wrote: »
    phoenix841 wrote: »
    luckyyahoo wrote: »
    I have no idea what this means. Can we get more details as to what is affected?

    If you don't know what it means, then it doesn't affect you.
    Simply put, what is being closed is the ability players have been using to communicate with players currently in-game, via something like Discord or Pidgin (chat program). Meaning you didn't actually have to have the game open, but could talk to your fleetmates or chat in channels like NoP Public Service.

    If you never did that, this doesn't affect you.

    Well ok, but a little more information would have been welcome in the original post. You can't just go around throwing obscure acronyms and expect people not to be concerned. We might have people in our fleet using this service and I would like to keep them informed. The original post is lacking details and is unacceptable.

    Yup, I agree.
    After I said that, I made a slight correct in my last post, as this actually can affect people even if they've never used or heard of it before.
    LTS Since Beta (Jan 2010).
  • tousseau
    tousseau Member Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    huh... never knew this was available.. *shrugs*
  • futurepastnow
    futurepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    This will negatively impact anyone who has joined an active non-default chat channel, or is in a multi-faction armada that uses its own chat channel. If you are in such a group, I am almost certain the people who run that use this feature to make your experience better.
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    Talking to other people is overrated anyway. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • futurepastnow
    futurepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    luckyyahoo wrote: »
    This will negatively impact anyone who has joined an active non-default chat channel, or is in a multi-faction armada that uses its own chat channel. If you are in such a group, I am almost certain the people who run that use this feature to make your experience better.

    We do use such a channel. How would our experience be negatively impacted?

    The level and quality of moderation will go down, as moderators will be reduced to only those actually in-game at any time. They will not have logs of chat, so anything a moderator does not personally see will be just they-said, they-said.

    If your fleet's leaders send fleet invites to people who request them in the channel, again, their ability to do so will be limited to when they're actually in-game. So you can expect a longer response time to such requests.
  • blindprincess
    blindprincess Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    well I use it to access chat due to the reason I am visually impaired and this is the only way I can read chat. your chat is not screen reader friendly
  • razar2380
    razar2380 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    well I use it to access chat due to the reason I am visually impaired and this is the only way I can read chat. your chat is not screen reader friendly

    This is so true. I have trouble with the chat window as well. Last week I had someone helping me to set up this service when they had to go. I guess now it is pointless.

    Razar.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • felisean
    felisean Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    @ambassadorkael#6946
    is there a compensation for lifetime members since you remove a feature from it?
  • pottsey5g
    pottsey5g Member Posts: 3,680 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @futurepastnow said:
    > This is a feature that enhances many peoples' gameplay, a feature that larger fleets and chat channels are absolutely dependent on, and terminating it demonstrates that Cryptic is shockingly out of touch with the way the players who spend money on their game play it.
    >
    > Don't remove XMPP. Take it out of beta and monetize it instead. Charge $10 or $25 for access if you have to.

    First off, can the hyperbole. Secondly, the descision has been made. Thirdly, I don't know 1 single person, fleet, or channel that has ever even mentioned xmpp.
    The thing is you can be speaking to someone using XMPP and not even realise it. To honest I forget the feature even existed but some of the more popular channels are full of people who are responding via XMPP and in a positive way. This change is going have a negative impact on some community's with some well known names not being around as much.

    I can see a lot less advice being given out when people are asking on various channel's due to this change.

    Years ago back when I has in the Blackhawks fleet it was a muti MMORPG game guild. We used to use XMPP to mix the fleet chat between all the games. Not used it myself since then which is why I forgot about it. But I know other people talk to on the busier Star Trek channels use it still.
  • legalalert81#3582
    legalalert81#3582 Member Posts: 1 New User
    You know you both can sue arc for not following with the Americans with disabilities act.
    That is a law all companies must follow to operate in the untied states. I will say that if anything happens to my account, anyone that agrees with me, or god forbid our disabled people . I will be making sure Arc Cryptic or any other company that is in evolved will not like what will happen you might want to have your legal look it up it is call the whistle blower act.

    > @razar2380 said:
    > blindprincess wrote: »
    >
    > well I use it to access chat due to the reason I am visually impaired and this is the only way I can read chat. your chat is not screen reader friendly
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > This is so true. I have trouble with the chat window as well. Last week I had someone helping me to set up this service when they had to go. I guess now it is pointless.
    >
    > Razar.
  • thevampinator
    thevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    You know you both can sue arc for not following with the Americans with disabilities act.
    That is a law all companies must follow to operate in the untied states. I will say that if anything happens to my account, anyone that agrees with me, or god forbid our disabled people . I will be making sure Arc Cryptic or any other company that is in evolved will not like what will happen you might want to have your legal look it up it is call the whistle blower act.

    > @razar2380 said:
    > blindprincess wrote: »
    >
    > well I use it to access chat due to the reason I am visually impaired and this is the only way I can read chat. your chat is not screen reader friendly
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > This is so true. I have trouble with the chat window as well. Last week I had someone helping me to set up this service when they had to go. I guess now it is pointless.
    >
    > Razar.

    Well you can adjust the chat channel size and font size within the game including coloring options for the chat channels themselves can try experimenting with it to see what works. I think if it didn't have those features then they might be able held liable under that act possibly but shutting down this feature does not mean you can't adjust it in the game itself to make it work. My vision problem though is far away but up close its fine. I can see where it can be a problem for those that have the opposite problem. But they have special types of glasses out there that works for this problem plus the game allows customizable chat sizes to help. So might be repeating myself but well there is they have the options if you just know how to play with them in the game. Might not be as easy but it can be worked around within the game. I understand that without glasses it can be very hard to see whats being typed and I do understand people not wanting the chat window to be filling up most of the screen if they have the letters to the point they have to do that. But you got ot do what you got to do. Its not really disability unfriendly. Just inconvenient if that is the reasoning. At least its better then being fully blind. Also most mmos I think don't even give this option. Its just a perk for buying the lifetime option most players can't even use it most likely because they don't have lifetime subscription. And just chat in the game itself. Many might even have similar problems with their vision and have adapted using the system. So using in an attempt to force them to keep it and not to remove the external feature isn't very convincing and I doubt a court would side with you as they wouldn't be breaking the Americans with disabilities act because it can be shown they do have a chat system that can be customized to the needs of the user. But I do understand your plight. If you are nearly fully blind I can see this being a bigger issue. But if you can see the screen itself then surely you can adjust the chat window to make it work for you. It may not be convenient but it can be done.

    Post edited by thevampinator on
  • thevampinator
    thevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    An example of what can be done to adjust the chat this is just a screenshot I made.
    After I adjusted it. So yeah I can't buy that the system can't work for those that have vision difficulties as I'm sure many people have close vision difficulties. Just got to adjust it to where it works and play with it. It could be possible the options don't make it big enough. But it can be pretty big still. Even in the screenshot its bigger then what the font is here. I'm not even sure if you can adjust the font on the forums website. But you could zone in so that is a plus. if anything they could make it so you can make the chat bigger to compensate for that. But at its highest setting I think it wouldn't be as bad. Unless you need it bigger.

    38fg59.jpg
    Post edited by thevampinator on
  • lordsteve1
    lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    I highly doubt that goldsellers are using lifetime accounts to spam channels; that would appear to be nonsense for several reasons:

    1) it costs money to buy a LTS so I seriously doubt they are going to be paying to spam chat when they can just open a bazillion F2P accounts for the same hassle.

    2) Seeing as (i'm assuming) the majority of goldseller accounts get dealt with pretty quickly due to report it's hardly a very cost effective way to run a "business". You'll blow hundreds of dollars setting the account up and lose access via it within days at best.

    3) Why go to the hassle of setting up an outside means of spamming the game when you can just do it all internally anyway? You just log in and there you go, just use chat (after a certain level); there's no need for external software.

    Honestly there are people out there who legitimately use the XMPP client for genuine chat with the game; they are going to lose that now which is a shame.
    I know several fleets like the Reddit guys make use of it and several channels use it too. It allows players to not be logged in all the time but still watch out for teams being created, allowing some great flexibility in channels. It also allows a decent log of chat to be kept thus allowing people to go back and look through help that was being offered if they missed part of a conversation.

    The real reason it's going is likely that they either don't know, or don;t want to keep maintaining it. As with a great many things in STO they always claim to be improving things by removing things. I'm yet to see that sort of mentality actually lead to any significant improvement for us players tbh and yet they keep peddling that BS.
    SulMatuul.png
  • fred26291#2759
    fred26291#2759 Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    I have been spammed in game with standard game name configurations in the in game mail. Each time this happens they are banned and reported. At no time have i ever seen an id that didnt match the configuration of an actual in game name. As to xxmp, First i never knew this existed and I do not talk to alot of people while i am playing, the only one i do talk to is on hangouts completely off game.
  • chkargh#2024
    chkargh#2024 Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Too bad, as far as I know a lot of fleets (including mine) use this popular system to create a connection between ingame chat and discord.

    Well, but if that's a "too big technical challenge" for Cryptic, it's better to turn it off. Better not to risk anything is definitely right.

    We want to continue to experience STO in the best possible performance, just like the last years
    Qapla'!
  • valoreah
    valoreah Member Posts: 11,007 Arc User
    What features are the community paying to maintain?

    The game itself.



    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • blindprincess
    blindprincess Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    First of all it it not the madder of size is it the madder that my screen reader can not read the game chat I can make out shapes in game to play but can not read the words so unless I make the chat so large it takes up the whole screen would not be able to use it. and as far as what legalalert81 I am looking into it
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