To the 'collectors' of things arcane out there, you probably have E'genn's Remains or two.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I think the reason Cryptic did it this way is that if you want to treat the tokens as having value: What is the difference between an empty project and 7 tokens or a partially completed project with 7 tokens? They represent the same amount of effort.
This, pretty much...2 folks have the same number of tokens but one bothered to make the extra effort to be sure and slot the project during it's first run. One person made a bet, and the other hedged their bet.
If both folks having 7 is a result of one person with 7 and someone with 21, the person who earned 21 already got their payoff, and the person who tried and didn't quite make it for whatever reason now gets the reward because everyone's in the same boat of no longer being able to complete old events.
Since every non-completion could POTENTIALLY be a result of something out of people's control, the only fair way is how it's being done.
Nope. The only fair way is to convert the tokens to TFO. This goes for the slotted projects too.
“Which has proven to be an incredibly bad decision on the part of those players. It's so obviously bad that it never even crossed my mind that someone would do it before people in this thread brought it up. Frankly, it sounds implausibly bad. It sounds more like a reverse-engineered argument to make their plight sound more sympathetic.”
For 6+ years it wasn’t a bad decision it was the smart thing to do. For 6+ years there was a reasonable expectation that you could spend time earning tokens and reuse them at a later date. It was good practice to do extra runs and earn extra tokens and now those extra runs have been turned into wasted time. Which is another reason why some players are upset.
Another negative to this change it is has removed the backups people spent hours earning to cover future missed days. I am more bothered about that then missed events. I had enough tokens saved up so if something happened I wouldn’t miss the item from the next event. All that work has been made meaningless.
As usual, you didn't understand what you were reading. The bad decision was the practice of collecting all your event tokens BEFORE even slotting the project. You could spend up to 13 days doing so which opens you up to the possibility of NEVER slotting the project if something bad happens to you in real life. Then you're sitting around with up to 13 tokens and zero event reward.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
“Which has proven to be an incredibly bad decision on the part of those players. It's so obviously bad that it never even crossed my mind that someone would do it before people in this thread brought it up. Frankly, it sounds implausibly bad. It sounds more like a reverse-engineered argument to make their plight sound more sympathetic.”
For 6+ years it wasn’t a bad decision it was the smart thing to do. For 6+ years there was a reasonable expectation that you could spend time earning tokens and reuse them at a later date. It was good practice to do extra runs and earn extra tokens and now those extra runs have been turned into wasted time. Which is another reason why some players are upset.
Another negative to this change it is has removed the backups people spent hours earning to cover future missed days. I am more bothered about that then missed events. I had enough tokens saved up so if something happened I wouldn’t miss the item from the next event. All that work has been made meaningless.
As usual, you didn't understand what you were reading. The bad decision was the practice of collecting all your event tokens BEFORE even slotting the project. You could spend up to 13 days doing so which opens you up to the possibility of NEVER slotting the project if something bad happens to you in real life. Then you're sitting around with up to 13 tokens and zero event reward.
You do not understand.
First event 21 times
Second event, you just need 7 times to finish. And do 13 extra for the next time.
Third event, just 1 time to go.
Pahvo Dissension I did about 20 times with some toons and some extra at the end to complete the accolade (some toons needed 23+ runs to get the kill accolade)
During First Contact Day i could skip the other event, because I had some TFO tokens kept from the last run.
Collecting items for projects you don't have slotted is dumb. Sorry it just is. They gave us tons of project slots... you should have just filled them up if you didn't feel like running them now. Finnish them later. (although if they choose to just delete them instead of auto complete them so be it)
As far as the other rewards for events being worthless. If that was the case you where a fool for doing them over and over. OR the crystal was just so stupid easy you AFKed it. In which case again why should you get rewarded for AFKing the event ques ?
Also the rewards for the events where designed to be very good. You got your standard basic que reward... a universal mark box... AND either extra 3571 DIL for the first 14 runs, and 2000 (think it was can't remember) bonus every day for turning in your extra widget. That is hardly terrible rewards compared to standard ques.
No you do not understand. Let me explain:
If someone is not sure he or she can play enough days during an event to finish it. It is logically to not yet activate the event project and put tokens in it. But save them in their bank/inventory.
Because what happens if you put in for example 13 of the required 14 tokens in, and the event ends? Then all your 13 tokens are stuck in an event you could not complete. Maybe the event project will never open again and you have to cancel it to free up the event project slot again, then also your 13 tokens are lost.
Hence people save the tokens earned in their inventory/bank. To be useful in a future event. Capishe?
NOTE: But the whole point is that: if Cryptic removes your items, there should be compensation. Best would be to let their customers decide for them selves what they would like to exchange the tokes into, that are made obsolete (instead of plain deletion).
Discussion is not about if players should have done things certain ways. And dividing the player base and putting them up against each other. Discussion should be what should Cryptic do to satisfy/compensate all their customers (and not just some)
PS: I also read there are people who do not mind to loose items. Those people are more then welcome to ingame mail me all the things they do not mind loosing.
Collecting items for projects you don't have slotted is dumb. Sorry it just is. They gave us tons of project slots... you should have just filled them up if you didn't feel like running them now. Finnish them later. (although if they choose to just delete them instead of auto complete them so be it)
As far as the other rewards for events being worthless. If that was the case you where a fool for doing them over and over. OR the crystal was just so stupid easy you AFKed it. In which case again why should you get rewarded for AFKing the event ques ?
Also the rewards for the events where designed to be very good. You got your standard basic que reward... a universal mark box... AND either extra 3571 DIL for the first 14 runs, and 2000 (think it was can't remember) bonus every day for turning in your extra widget. That is hardly terrible rewards compared to standard ques.
No you do not understand. Let me explain:
If someone is not sure he or she can play enough days during an event to finish it. It is logically to not yet activate the event project and put tokens in it. But save them in their bank/inventory.
Because what happens if you put in for example 13 of the required 14 tokens in, and the event ends? Then all your 13 tokens are stuck in an event you could not complete. Maybe the event project will never open again and you have to cancel it to free up the event project slot again, then also your 13 tokens are lost.
Hence people save the tokens earned in their inventory/bank. To be useful in a future event. Capishe?
NOTE: But the whole point is that: if Cryptic removes your items, there should be compensation. Best would be to let their customers decide for them selves what they would like to exchange the tokes into, that are made obsolete (instead of plain deletion).
Discussion is not about if players should have done things certain ways. And dividing the player base and putting them up against each other. Discussion should be what should Cryptic do to satisfy/compensate all their customers (and not just some)
PS: I also read there are people who do not mind to loose items. Those people are more then welcome to ingame mail me all the things they do not mind loosing.
There is still NO logical reason to not slot the event. Don't put them in sure store them in your inv if you like. But why not slot the project again ? Its illogical.
In smacks of people lying... they did the event already. Its just easier to complain about their 20 stockpiled tokens being useless. They choose to not run the daily missions following each events completion. They where betting they may want to use them to skip days on an event later. Which is fine.... but its nothing to complain about. Those tokens had value during the event and they choose to not cash them in... betting they would be more useful to them later.
At this point I say the easiest thing to do would be to simply delete all old missions and the tokens and be done. No soup for no one. Really why is cryptic rewarding people for uncompleted stuff anyway ?
A method already existed (past tense) for turning in the extras after finishing a project, by slotting them in the event reputation tab, one per day, worth some dil and marks, with a 1 day cool-down.
Why not turn this on. It will take 1 day to receive compensation. The code is already there.
Cryptic's refusal and insistence on instead deleting currency that's worth real life time says enough about the future approach to this game, and to my own future time investment in it. Simple as that.
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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“Which has proven to be an incredibly bad decision on the part of those players. It's so obviously bad that it never even crossed my mind that someone would do it before people in this thread brought it up. Frankly, it sounds implausibly bad. It sounds more like a reverse-engineered argument to make their plight sound more sympathetic.”
For 6+ years it wasn’t a bad decision it was the smart thing to do. For 6+ years there was a reasonable expectation that you could spend time earning tokens and reuse them at a later date. It was good practice to do extra runs and earn extra tokens and now those extra runs have been turned into wasted time. Which is another reason why some players are upset.
Another negative to this change it is has removed the backups people spent hours earning to cover future missed days. I am more bothered about that then missed events. I had enough tokens saved up so if something happened I wouldn’t miss the item from the next event. All that work has been made meaningless.
As usual, you didn't understand what you were reading. The bad decision was the practice of collecting all your event tokens BEFORE even slotting the project. You could spend up to 13 days doing so which opens you up to the possibility of NEVER slotting the project if something bad happens to you in real life. Then you're sitting around with up to 13 tokens and zero event reward.
You do not understand.
First event 21 times
Second event, you just need 7 times to finish. And do 13 extra for the next time.
Third event, just 1 time to go.
Pahvo Dissension I did about 20 times with some toons and some extra at the end to complete the accolade (some toons needed 23+ runs to get the kill accolade)
During First Contact Day i could skip the other event, because I had some TFO tokens kept from the last run.
You are talking about something COMPLETELY different from what I'm talking about. There is an ongoing discussion about how stupid it is to COLLECT TOKENS before SLOTTING THE PROJECT that accepts them. There is no point in collecting 14 tokens THEN slot the project and contribute them all. My quote has nothing to do with stockpiling or hoarding from one event to another.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
What if Cryptic would decide to delete all refined and unrefined dilithium. Saying we don't need it anymore because there is already ZEN. Everything should be paid with ZEN from now on. Also they would not allow to turn in the refined and unrefined dilithium for ZEN.
So what if dilithium items just were deleted. Including also all dilithium claims would be useless and deleted, without compensation. Some people who spend all dilitium immediately would say: people should have spend all their dilithium. If you stockpile dilithium for later its your risk.
Then again I would say: Cryptic should let have people the possibility to turn in those items in exchange for something else. Same holds for the event tokens people possess. Players should be enabled to turn those in for something else.
“Which has proven to be an incredibly bad decision on the part of those players. It's so obviously bad that it never even crossed my mind that someone would do it before people in this thread brought it up. Frankly, it sounds implausibly bad. It sounds more like a reverse-engineered argument to make their plight sound more sympathetic.”
For 6+ years it wasn’t a bad decision it was the smart thing to do. For 6+ years there was a reasonable expectation that you could spend time earning tokens and reuse them at a later date. It was good practice to do extra runs and earn extra tokens and now those extra runs have been turned into wasted time. Which is another reason why some players are upset.
Another negative to this change it is has removed the backups people spent hours earning to cover future missed days. I am more bothered about that then missed events. I had enough tokens saved up so if something happened I wouldn’t miss the item from the next event. All that work has been made meaningless.
As usual, you didn't understand what you were reading. The bad decision was the practice of collecting all your event tokens BEFORE even slotting the project. You could spend up to 13 days doing so which opens you up to the possibility of NEVER slotting the project if something bad happens to you in real life. Then you're sitting around with up to 13 tokens and zero event reward.
You do not understand.
First event 21 times
Second event, you just need 7 times to finish. And do 13 extra for the next time.
Third event, just 1 time to go.
Pahvo Dissension I did about 20 times with some toons and some extra at the end to complete the accolade (some toons needed 23+ runs to get the kill accolade)
During First Contact Day i could skip the other event, because I had some TFO tokens kept from the last run.
You are talking about something COMPLETELY different from what I'm talking about. There is an ongoing discussion about how stupid it is to COLLECT TOKENS before SLOTTING THE PROJECT that accepts them. There is no point in collecting 14 tokens THEN slot the project and contribute them all. My quote has nothing to do with stockpiling or hoarding from one event to another.
I collected the tokens. Mainly at the end of the event I slotted the project. Normally i kept the projects slotted until Mark-Events. Instead of 2000 dili and 35 marks you get 52 marks. There was no Bonus on the 50 Fleet Marks.
I loved the time you get your marks in a box you can store until Mark Event.
“As far as the other rewards for events being worthless. If that was the case you where a fool for doing them over and over. OR the crystal was just so stupid easy you AFKed it. In which case again why should you get rewarded for AFKing the event ques ?”
So I am a fool for doing extra runs so that if I am on holiday next year when the event runs I can use the spare tokens to make up for days I missed? That’s not a fool, that being sensible. Not just holidays, sudden loss of internet, blown computer parts, powercuts e.c.t.
For over 6 years that was the sensible thing to do and we benefited from it. Until now all other currency changes gave us a chance to trade in the old currency. So there was no expectation based on the past 10 years that the tokens would become worthless after investing time into getting them. That is what has made some players angry. You don't let players earn something special and then just delete it without warning.
Like I said before I am less bothered about auto event completion and more bothered that banked event days for future use have been deleted after many years of this being acceptable and beneficial. We earned those days and tokens and now they are being deleted. Of course that is going upset some players. It’s going be even worse for people who did have spare tokens but as they got deleted and due to events outside their control run short and miss completing the next event.
How frustrated would you be if you failed to get the next event finished due to this change? How would you feel if you put in the time and earned 14 days of spare CE tokens last time and then fall short of the upcoming CE event and miss the new item and full reward? What if someone has 30 tokens which means they have played the game every single day for an entire month and had a months worth of daily work just deleted. That is bound to upset some players.
Perhaps I will be wrong but I expect after the event goes live this week there are going be a lot of upset people in local chat looking for missing tokens.
“Also the rewards for the events where designed to be very good. You got your standard basic que reward... a universal mark box... AND either extra 3571 DIL for the first 14 runs, and 2000 (think it was can't remember) bonus every day for turning in your extra widget. That is hardly terrible rewards compared to standard ques.”
I do not consider that very good, from my point of view that offers nothing of worthwhile value and is a terrible reward. Although I admit not terrible for all players it is extremely low value for some. If that was the only reward I wouldn’t even bother running it. The reason it was worthwhile for me was for the tokens and items. The rest does not matter.
“As far as the other rewards for events being worthless. If that was the case you where a fool for doing them over and over. OR the crystal was just so stupid easy you AFKed it. In which case again why should you get rewarded for AFKing the event ques ?”
So I am a fool for doing extra runs so that if I am on holiday next year when the event runs I can use the spare tokens to make up for days I missed? That’s not a fool, that being sensible. Not just holidays, sudden loss of internet, blown computer parts, powercuts e.c.t.
Sounds like you need to move somewhere with better utilities.
Seriously though didn't you just finish saying you didn't even bother to slot projects on the first day. You clearly where not worried about blown computer parts or fault utilities.
Look I'm not saying it wasn't wise to stock pile a few... but you where speculating. That is it. When it comes to speculation there is always a risk your wrong.
There was no guarantee you could use them down the road... even if things did worth that way for a long time. As far as reward amount there honestly wasn't much sense in hording them anyway. The daily turn in mission rewarded 3/4 as much as a full 14 day event anyway. So I really don't understand why people held onto tons of them. I admit I have a few toons with 5 or 6 or this one or that one... none that have over 10. IMO people holding that many must have failed high school math. A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush.
Which has proven to be an incredibly bad decision on the part of those players. It's so obviously bad that it never even crossed my mind that someone would do it before people in this thread brought it up.
Pretty much. It makes even less sense if you start trying to apply that logic to other parts of the game
>I never start reputations unless I have all the marks I'll need to complete the whole thing.
>I never slot fleet projects unless I know we already have everything we need to finish it right then.
>I never put points into specializations unless I have enough to get all 15-30 powers at once.
Pretty much no aspect of the game is benefited by this kind of thinking.
See this is just trying to make it seem like the people who didn't slot the events are stupid and don't know anything.
1.) You gain nothing from slotting a rep project before you have the marks. The only thing it hurts is taking up space an hourly could fit, but not much reason to do those anyway. You don't get the item faster just because you slotted it as soon as it became available.
2.) If you are the only one in your fleet then this isn't a problem. See above. If not, then this would do nothing but frustrate those who could contribute, even if it takes a day or two to finish. They may need the FC asap. You earn FC based on your contribution, not when the project finishes.
3.) Spces give you bonuses for just having 1 point in it, and they improve as you add on. Waiting for the full amount makes no sense.
The ONLY reason to slot the event stuff before you have enough tokens is/was as a just in case you have RL issues. Fair enough.
Some people have said we had no guarantee it would come back, so "hoarders" shouldn't expect anything in return. That said, they ARE rewarding one set of people who had the same expectations, just a different way of thinking. I'm not saying we should get the items. Or the full dil/marks reward. But throw us a bone, and set up a trade in vendor for dil or something.
As i said, I am NOT upset that they are auto completing for those that had them slotted. More power to them, i don't think I really even wanted some of those things, thus putting a lot less effort into it.
It seems simple to me. Some people put in as little as 1 days effort and get the full reward while others that put in 13 days effort get zero reward. After 6+ years there was clear trend and reasonable expectation of saving tokens to be used next time.
For a lot of people it was common practice to not slot an event until you had the full amount of tokens. It’s hardly super generous to remove that after 6+years without reasonable notice to do anything about it. In fact it breaks one of the golden rules of MMORPS’s. Which is taking things away from players they spent time earning without compensation. Its even worse when you take away something from a player that spent many hours earning and give them nothing in return. Then give another player that did next to nothing and give them the full reward.
From a players point of view they have spent many hours earning these tokens with 6+ years of reasonable expectations of being able to reuse them. Now all of a sudden all those hours of playtime has been mostly wasted with little to show for it.
It doesn’t bother but I can see why others are upset.
I'm not trying to fight with you... your argument simply sounds like the type I have to dissuade my grandchildren from making when one of them gets something the other doesn't.
As has been said if you didn't slot the project for some reason that is your fault. You where never getting a reward you didn't slot. Really where people collecting items without bothering to slot the project ? That to be frank sounds stupid.
Yes I am generalising that people with many tokens completed the project already and where stockpiling for the next event. That was always a gamble. I don't get upset when I TRIBBLE out. If I couldn't afford to loose the bet I wouldn't have made it.
As far as wasting your time... Did those event missions reward you nothing ? I guess they didn't give you dil and mark choice boxes for every complete. (often for little actual game play investment as half the people playing afk half the events) Keeping the token items was always a gamble... the ah why should someone else (who was working on the project) get rewarded retroactive?
Well why not... they where working on the project they never completed it believing they would be able to complete it later. I admit that was also a gamble. Cryptic could have likewise said to those people those events are over not coming back and we will deleted all uncompleted with no compensation. They could have which is why I say they where kind. Either way no sense getting hung about it. Anyone that was working on a previous event... congrats on your wind fall. For those that never slotted the project. Well lesson learned you have multiple project slots... slot them day one. For those hording after completion... all well the speculation went south. It happens.
I don't think that's a good argument.
From my perspective it's like taking your grandkids to the toy store with their allowance money. One didn't do as many chores and can't afford a toy, while the other didn't see the toy or didn't want to spend his money on it, or had simply saved more money.
You take them back the next week, and the first kid is given the toy they wanted but couldn't afford, and the second kid has his fourteen bucks taken from him because he didn't spend it last week and gets nothing in return.
I don't have a problem with the first, I have a problem with the second.
Keeping the tokens was not a gamble. Lockboxes are gambling. Stockpiling a currency that has been in use for six years is a perfectly reasonable action. Note, I'm not one who has missed anything. I've gotten every special event project item since I started playing in 2012. I think the only one I've missed is the original winter event with the Jem'Hadar Attack ship, which was before F2P and before I started playing.
And while the dilithium and the marks were good, I was actually playing for the shard, and also the time that having them would save in the future. It was an investment. Now investments go bad all the time, and that's fine, but this is an arbitrary decision on the part of the Devs that could be easily resolved if they cared to, so that the reward that we worked for doesn't just say, "Thanks for playing, but you get the shaft on this one, because, and this is important, we don't care." This investment didn't have to go completely bad.
A method already existed (past tense) for turning in the extras after finishing a project, by slotting them in the event reputation tab, one per day, worth some dil and marks, with a 1 day cool-down.
Why not turn this on. It will take 1 day to receive compensation. The code is already there.
Cryptic's refusal and insistence on instead deleting currency that's worth real life time says enough about the future approach to this game, and to my own future time investment in it. Simple as that.
That would be perfectly fine. Or put in a special project that's just the 50K Dilithium or an upgrade like the Phoenix to say, thanks for playing all of our events, have this, but this is a limited time thing and the shards are gone after this.
And if it's not for the special free ship token I will not be playing past completion anymore unless I need the marks.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
RULE ONE: ALWAYS slot the Main Event Project the first time you run that Event on the Character you are using to unlock the Account Reward. That holds regardless of the Event.
If other Characters will also be doing the Event for the consumable Rewards (Dilitium, Fleet Marks, Choice Marks), obviously the Account Unlock is not the concern, but SEE RULE ONE.
If others Characters will just do some Dailies after the Unlock you will need to slot and do them as you do them as there is a 20 cooldown.
If you have done the Main Project and got the Account Unlock and don't care about the Dailies but want to run the TFO, do so and save the TFO Commendation for the future. Now Cryptic has made the 14-Day TFO Event 'Token' (TFO Commendation) an unassailable item for time to come as they sell it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
RULE ONE: ALWAYS slot the Main Event Project the first time you run that Event on the Character you are using to unlock the Account Reward. That holds regardless of the Event.
If other Characters will also be doing the Event for the consumable Rewards (Dilitium, Fleet Marks, Choice Marks), obviously the Account Unlock is not the concern, but SEE RULE ONE.
If others Characters will just do some Dailies after the Unlock you will need to slot and do them as you do them as there is a 20 cooldown.
If you have done the Main Project and got the Account Unlock and don't care about the Dailies but want to run the TFO, do so and save the TFO Commendation for the future. Now Cryptic has made the 14-Day TFO Event 'Token' (TFO Commendation) an unassailable item for time to come as they sell it.
Which is what i'll be doing from now on after seeing this.
The levels to which Cryptic apologists will go to defend them is truly staggering. This is an absolute TRIBBLE-up on their part. The logic, as already said, creates this state: If you didn't play and don't have tokens we will give you everything for free . If you did play and have tokens we will take those away and give you nothing.And nobody is really complaining about that first part even though it's a slap in the face to people who did play. But extend the "logic" to any other part of the game and look at how much sense it makes. Maybe tomorrow Cryptic will say "MK XV is being replaced. We are going to be eliminating roman numerals. Henceforth the top items will be MK 15. As part of this change we are deleting all roman numeral gear". It's the same base logic.
@ambassadorkael#6946 Just two quick yes or no questions... For the duration of the Featured TFO event, will the Nukara reputation marks normally rewarded for Crystaline Catastrophe be replaced by a full choice of marks like in the other Featured TFOs or will we end up stashing 4k to 5k Nukara reputation marks? If so, will the choice include DSC marks too (as other form of choice of marks currently exclude DSC marks)?
The answer will have a definite impact on which of my toons will be running the Event.
It is a Featured TFO so it will have Choice Marks. The question is, will Discovery Marks be included?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
First Contact Day did not use TFO Commendations, it used a Zefram Cochran Memorial Statue as its Event Token. C-Store Bundle included four of them and four Infinity Promotion R&D Packs.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Good point about the Summer, Winter, and Anniversary 'Tokens' that they make available in the Lobi Store for Lobi (not Zen). They don't delete those 'Tokens', they just render them useless.
But that brings up the important point. Cryptic has allowed you, for YEARS, to complete the Event Ship Project, that now has an Account Unlock, with various stages of participation, from none to almost all. Doesn't sound like someone who is overly concerned about people not participating in an Event.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Well here's a rub. I just realized that they had sold a C-Store Bundle that included 10 Voth Operative Transmissions and an Ultimate Upgrade Token last September. And they are eliminating something you may have PURCHASED for Zen.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The levels to which Cryptic apologists will go to defend them is truly staggering. This is an absolute TRIBBLE-up on their part. The logic, as already said, creates this state: If you didn't play and don't have tokens we will give you everything for free . If you did play and have tokens we will take those away and give you nothing.And nobody is really complaining about that first part even though it's a slap in the face to people who did play. But extend the "logic" to any other part of the game and look at how much sense it makes. Maybe tomorrow Cryptic will say "MK XV is being replaced. We are going to be eliminating roman numerals. Henceforth the top items will be MK 15. As part of this change we are deleting all roman numeral gear". It's the same base logic.
You're also forgetting one group: Those who played a little and contributed to the tokens, but could not finish the project for some reason. They will still get items for free since the projects will be completed for them.
@ambassadorkael#6946 Just two quick yes or no questions... For the duration of the Featured TFO event, will the Nukara reputation marks normally rewarded for Crystaline Catastrophe be replaced by a full choice of marks like in the other Featured TFOs or will we end up stashing 4k to 5k Nukara reputation marks? If so, will the choice include DSC marks too (as other form of choice of marks currently exclude DSC marks)?
The answer will have a definite impact on which of my toons will be running the Event.
When they've ran it in the past, it's always been done with a choice of marks. Crystalline Cataclysm is not exactly the same as the Catastrophe TFO, since there are special conditions that are set off during the TFO.
As for whether it will include Discovery Marks or not, we'll have to see.
First Contact Day did not use TFO Commendations, it used a Zefram Cochran Memorial Statue as its Event Token. C-Store Bundle included four of them and four Infinity Promotion R&D Packs.
wrote:
All slotted 14-token projects for the following Events will be automatically completed, regardless of the existing amount of progress made:
Crystalline Cataclysm
Into the Breach
First Contact Day
Kobayashi Maru
Mirror Universe Invasion
Sompek Arena
Projects completed in this manner will be awaiting you in your Event Reputation, ready to claim! This process will reward you the items, dilithium ore, and marks, as well as properly unlock Account-Wide reclaim as applicable.
All existing tokens used in the aforementioned projects will be automatically removed from players’ inventories, as they will no longer have a purpose going forward.
As many others have stated, I'm fine with simplifying the amount of currencies, and the auto-completion of old projects.
However, I ALSO, like many others, want to be able to exchange additional currencies farmed in the past into the new currency. Either by auto-changing them in the inventory, OR putting an NPC somewhere on Drozana where we can exchange OLD currencies into the new one for the next years to come.
A zero cost way for Cryptic to finance and expand the foundry
“Seriously though didn't you just finish saying you didn't even bother to slot projects on the first day. You clearly where not worried about blown computer parts or fault utilities.”
I slot it on the day I have enough tokens to complete it which give backup days in case something goes wrong. I don’t wait until the last day to slot it. I am more trying to explain the reasons some other people are upset. Not myself. People who horded them are not stupid and did not fail. It was sensible to hoard some and makes perfect sense. Please stop trying to make people look stupid for doing the sensible thing.
“There was no guarantee you could use them down the road... even if things did worth that way for a long time.”
Well there sort of was. The devs had said in the past when we have a currency merge players wouldn’t lose out and the currency will be able to be converted or spent. Every other time we had a currency merge in the past nothing got deleted. This is a sudden unexpected change of policy after many years of it being different.
I still expect local chat to be full of upset people tomorrow more so for the ones that spent real money to buy tokens which are now being deleted.
I would like to know why currency conversion for Winter Wonderland, Anniversary and Risa was handled APPROPRIATELY--with buy-backs offered for those who obtained these currencies.
Yet now, with the removal of Voth Operative Transmissions, Crystal Shards, Zefram Cochrane Memorial Holograms, Merits of Sompek, etc---that NO BUY-BACK is being offered.
It isn't even like buy-back has to offer more than it did last time, which boiled down mostly to ship emotes and dil-free item upgrades (w/o quality upgrade chance). As it stands now--just for 1 event--the person who slotted the project and didn't even do the TFO 1x is now getting the same net reward as someone who did what cryptic asked and loyally did the TFO for 21x in a row. This seems disingenuous at best and downright malicious at worst.
RULE ONE: ALWAYS slot the Main Event Project the first time you run that Event on the Character you are using to unlock the Account Reward. That holds regardless of the Event.
If other Characters will also be doing the Event for the consumable Rewards (Dilitium, Fleet Marks, Choice Marks), obviously the Account Unlock is not the concern, but SEE RULE ONE.
If others Characters will just do some Dailies after the Unlock you will need to slot and do them as you do them as there is a 20 cooldown.
If you have done the Main Project and got the Account Unlock and don't care about the Dailies but want to run the TFO, do so and save the TFO Commendation for the future. Now Cryptic has made the 14-Day TFO Event 'Token' (TFO Commendation) an unassailable item for time to come as they sell it.
That is on hindsight. Always easy to say what is best to do on hindsight.
If they would have chosen to cancel the events that hold old tokes, and you would loose them, and players who would have stockpiled tokes would have gotten some compensation for them. Then having started events and filling them with tokens would be the unwise thing to have been done.
The point is that Cryptic should give ALL players who have event tokens, regardless if they have started projects, compensation! Instead of deleting items from players without compensation.
Comments
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Nope. The only fair way is to convert the tokens to TFO. This goes for the slotted projects too.
None will be auto completed.
As usual, you didn't understand what you were reading. The bad decision was the practice of collecting all your event tokens BEFORE even slotting the project. You could spend up to 13 days doing so which opens you up to the possibility of NEVER slotting the project if something bad happens to you in real life. Then you're sitting around with up to 13 tokens and zero event reward.
You do not understand.
First event 21 times
Second event, you just need 7 times to finish. And do 13 extra for the next time.
Third event, just 1 time to go.
Pahvo Dissension I did about 20 times with some toons and some extra at the end to complete the accolade (some toons needed 23+ runs to get the kill accolade)
During First Contact Day i could skip the other event, because I had some TFO tokens kept from the last run.
No you do not understand. Let me explain:
If someone is not sure he or she can play enough days during an event to finish it. It is logically to not yet activate the event project and put tokens in it. But save them in their bank/inventory.
Because what happens if you put in for example 13 of the required 14 tokens in, and the event ends? Then all your 13 tokens are stuck in an event you could not complete. Maybe the event project will never open again and you have to cancel it to free up the event project slot again, then also your 13 tokens are lost.
Hence people save the tokens earned in their inventory/bank. To be useful in a future event. Capishe?
NOTE: But the whole point is that: if Cryptic removes your items, there should be compensation. Best would be to let their customers decide for them selves what they would like to exchange the tokes into, that are made obsolete (instead of plain deletion).
Discussion is not about if players should have done things certain ways. And dividing the player base and putting them up against each other. Discussion should be what should Cryptic do to satisfy/compensate all their customers (and not just some)
PS: I also read there are people who do not mind to loose items. Those people are more then welcome to ingame mail me all the things they do not mind loosing.
There is still NO logical reason to not slot the event. Don't put them in sure store them in your inv if you like. But why not slot the project again ? Its illogical.
In smacks of people lying... they did the event already. Its just easier to complain about their 20 stockpiled tokens being useless. They choose to not run the daily missions following each events completion. They where betting they may want to use them to skip days on an event later. Which is fine.... but its nothing to complain about. Those tokens had value during the event and they choose to not cash them in... betting they would be more useful to them later.
At this point I say the easiest thing to do would be to simply delete all old missions and the tokens and be done. No soup for no one. Really why is cryptic rewarding people for uncompleted stuff anyway ?
Why not turn this on. It will take 1 day to receive compensation. The code is already there.
Cryptic's refusal and insistence on instead deleting currency that's worth real life time says enough about the future approach to this game, and to my own future time investment in it. Simple as that.
Lets try a different approach to explain it:
What if Cryptic would decide to delete all refined and unrefined dilithium. Saying we don't need it anymore because there is already ZEN. Everything should be paid with ZEN from now on. Also they would not allow to turn in the refined and unrefined dilithium for ZEN.
So what if dilithium items just were deleted. Including also all dilithium claims would be useless and deleted, without compensation. Some people who spend all dilitium immediately would say: people should have spend all their dilithium. If you stockpile dilithium for later its your risk.
Then again I would say: Cryptic should let have people the possibility to turn in those items in exchange for something else. Same holds for the event tokens people possess. Players should be enabled to turn those in for something else.
I collected the tokens. Mainly at the end of the event I slotted the project. Normally i kept the projects slotted until Mark-Events. Instead of 2000 dili and 35 marks you get 52 marks. There was no Bonus on the 50 Fleet Marks.
I loved the time you get your marks in a box you can store until Mark Event.
For over 6 years that was the sensible thing to do and we benefited from it. Until now all other currency changes gave us a chance to trade in the old currency. So there was no expectation based on the past 10 years that the tokens would become worthless after investing time into getting them. That is what has made some players angry. You don't let players earn something special and then just delete it without warning.
Like I said before I am less bothered about auto event completion and more bothered that banked event days for future use have been deleted after many years of this being acceptable and beneficial. We earned those days and tokens and now they are being deleted. Of course that is going upset some players. It’s going be even worse for people who did have spare tokens but as they got deleted and due to events outside their control run short and miss completing the next event.
How frustrated would you be if you failed to get the next event finished due to this change? How would you feel if you put in the time and earned 14 days of spare CE tokens last time and then fall short of the upcoming CE event and miss the new item and full reward? What if someone has 30 tokens which means they have played the game every single day for an entire month and had a months worth of daily work just deleted. That is bound to upset some players.
Perhaps I will be wrong but I expect after the event goes live this week there are going be a lot of upset people in local chat looking for missing tokens.
I do not consider that very good, from my point of view that offers nothing of worthwhile value and is a terrible reward. Although I admit not terrible for all players it is extremely low value for some. If that was the only reward I wouldn’t even bother running it. The reason it was worthwhile for me was for the tokens and items. The rest does not matter.
Sounds like you need to move somewhere with better utilities.
Seriously though didn't you just finish saying you didn't even bother to slot projects on the first day. You clearly where not worried about blown computer parts or fault utilities.
Look I'm not saying it wasn't wise to stock pile a few... but you where speculating. That is it. When it comes to speculation there is always a risk your wrong.
There was no guarantee you could use them down the road... even if things did worth that way for a long time. As far as reward amount there honestly wasn't much sense in hording them anyway. The daily turn in mission rewarded 3/4 as much as a full 14 day event anyway. So I really don't understand why people held onto tons of them. I admit I have a few toons with 5 or 6 or this one or that one... none that have over 10. IMO people holding that many must have failed high school math. A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush.
See this is just trying to make it seem like the people who didn't slot the events are stupid and don't know anything.
1.) You gain nothing from slotting a rep project before you have the marks. The only thing it hurts is taking up space an hourly could fit, but not much reason to do those anyway. You don't get the item faster just because you slotted it as soon as it became available.
2.) If you are the only one in your fleet then this isn't a problem. See above. If not, then this would do nothing but frustrate those who could contribute, even if it takes a day or two to finish. They may need the FC asap. You earn FC based on your contribution, not when the project finishes.
3.) Spces give you bonuses for just having 1 point in it, and they improve as you add on. Waiting for the full amount makes no sense.
The ONLY reason to slot the event stuff before you have enough tokens is/was as a just in case you have RL issues. Fair enough.
Some people have said we had no guarantee it would come back, so "hoarders" shouldn't expect anything in return. That said, they ARE rewarding one set of people who had the same expectations, just a different way of thinking. I'm not saying we should get the items. Or the full dil/marks reward. But throw us a bone, and set up a trade in vendor for dil or something.
As i said, I am NOT upset that they are auto completing for those that had them slotted. More power to them, i don't think I really even wanted some of those things, thus putting a lot less effort into it.
I don't think that's a good argument.
From my perspective it's like taking your grandkids to the toy store with their allowance money. One didn't do as many chores and can't afford a toy, while the other didn't see the toy or didn't want to spend his money on it, or had simply saved more money.
You take them back the next week, and the first kid is given the toy they wanted but couldn't afford, and the second kid has his fourteen bucks taken from him because he didn't spend it last week and gets nothing in return.
I don't have a problem with the first, I have a problem with the second.
Keeping the tokens was not a gamble. Lockboxes are gambling. Stockpiling a currency that has been in use for six years is a perfectly reasonable action. Note, I'm not one who has missed anything. I've gotten every special event project item since I started playing in 2012. I think the only one I've missed is the original winter event with the Jem'Hadar Attack ship, which was before F2P and before I started playing.
And while the dilithium and the marks were good, I was actually playing for the shard, and also the time that having them would save in the future. It was an investment. Now investments go bad all the time, and that's fine, but this is an arbitrary decision on the part of the Devs that could be easily resolved if they cared to, so that the reward that we worked for doesn't just say, "Thanks for playing, but you get the shaft on this one, because, and this is important, we don't care." This investment didn't have to go completely bad.
That would be perfectly fine. Or put in a special project that's just the 50K Dilithium or an upgrade like the Phoenix to say, thanks for playing all of our events, have this, but this is a limited time thing and the shards are gone after this.
And if it's not for the special free ship token I will not be playing past completion anymore unless I need the marks.
If other Characters will also be doing the Event for the consumable Rewards (Dilitium, Fleet Marks, Choice Marks), obviously the Account Unlock is not the concern, but SEE RULE ONE.
If others Characters will just do some Dailies after the Unlock you will need to slot and do them as you do them as there is a 20 cooldown.
If you have done the Main Project and got the Account Unlock and don't care about the Dailies but want to run the TFO, do so and save the TFO Commendation for the future. Now Cryptic has made the 14-Day TFO Event 'Token' (TFO Commendation) an unassailable item for time to come as they sell it.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Which is what i'll be doing from now on after seeing this.
After they introduced the TFO tokens there was no chance to spend older tokens.
When two events are running at the same time (first contact day and TFO), we now get two TFO tokens a day?
With discovery they started to act in bad faith.
The answer will have a definite impact on which of my toons will be running the Event.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Good point about the Summer, Winter, and Anniversary 'Tokens' that they make available in the Lobi Store for Lobi (not Zen). They don't delete those 'Tokens', they just render them useless.
But that brings up the important point. Cryptic has allowed you, for YEARS, to complete the Event Ship Project, that now has an Account Unlock, with various stages of participation, from none to almost all. Doesn't sound like someone who is overly concerned about people not participating in an Event.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You're also forgetting one group: Those who played a little and contributed to the tokens, but could not finish the project for some reason. They will still get items for free since the projects will be completed for them.
When they've ran it in the past, it's always been done with a choice of marks. Crystalline Cataclysm is not exactly the same as the Catastrophe TFO, since there are special conditions that are set off during the TFO.
As for whether it will include Discovery Marks or not, we'll have to see.
These Items will be removed also.
However, I ALSO, like many others, want to be able to exchange additional currencies farmed in the past into the new currency. Either by auto-changing them in the inventory, OR putting an NPC somewhere on Drozana where we can exchange OLD currencies into the new one for the next years to come.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1247522/foundry-sunset-april-11th-2019/p15
Look at my post about a Foundry Ship
BRING BACK THE FOUNDRY!
I slot it on the day I have enough tokens to complete it which give backup days in case something goes wrong. I don’t wait until the last day to slot it. I am more trying to explain the reasons some other people are upset. Not myself. People who horded them are not stupid and did not fail. It was sensible to hoard some and makes perfect sense. Please stop trying to make people look stupid for doing the sensible thing.
Well there sort of was. The devs had said in the past when we have a currency merge players wouldn’t lose out and the currency will be able to be converted or spent. Every other time we had a currency merge in the past nothing got deleted. This is a sudden unexpected change of policy after many years of it being different.
I still expect local chat to be full of upset people tomorrow more so for the ones that spent real money to buy tokens which are now being deleted.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10993623
YouTube: MitNaqt Facebook: STO Neuling
Yet now, with the removal of Voth Operative Transmissions, Crystal Shards, Zefram Cochrane Memorial Holograms, Merits of Sompek, etc---that NO BUY-BACK is being offered.
It isn't even like buy-back has to offer more than it did last time, which boiled down mostly to ship emotes and dil-free item upgrades (w/o quality upgrade chance). As it stands now--just for 1 event--the person who slotted the project and didn't even do the TFO 1x is now getting the same net reward as someone who did what cryptic asked and loyally did the TFO for 21x in a row. This seems disingenuous at best and downright malicious at worst.
That is on hindsight. Always easy to say what is best to do on hindsight.
If they would have chosen to cancel the events that hold old tokes, and you would loose them, and players who would have stockpiled tokes would have gotten some compensation for them. Then having started events and filling them with tokens would be the unwise thing to have been done.
The point is that Cryptic should give ALL players who have event tokens, regardless if they have started projects, compensation! Instead of deleting items from players without compensation.