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Captain Lorca is the worst Star Fleet captain ever.

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  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Why would the people present at the time comment on his actions when he just lost his ship and crew?

    You'd think they'd give him some time to recover before tearing him a new one for destroying the Buran and its crew but fleeing by himself, especially considering they wouldn't learn until later why he was the only survivor.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
    Maybe the details concerning Mirror Lorca are still classified, something that would be covered up
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      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
      echatty wrote: »
      Yeah. The acronym most used for Discovery is Disc. The censored acronym is also an acronym for sxually transmitted disease.

      I haven't caught all of the Disc eps, but I have been spoiled by someone who has. I do watch them when I'm not playing on my computer and the husband is watching them as he has access to CBS All-Access vie his Roku that our son gave to him.

      I think the ep was well-written and I enjoyed playing both of them. I'm looking forward to the next ones and our inevitable encounter with J'Ula in our timeline.


      I've only seen it as TRIBBLE. I don't see a reason that is invalid. Its certainly as valid as STV, STE for Voyager and Enterprise. In any case, I will continue using TRIBBLE as that seems to be completely understood in game and anywhere else I see people talk about Discovery. I won't let censorship dictate what words I use when they are completely valid and in common use.

      So, you're actually using the word "tribble" to refer to Discovery, because that's what you see here? "Tribble" is used as a replacement word as part of the forum's automated censorship. Now, if you're intent on using the derogatory acronym that is censored, be aware that its use is considered trolling as per the FCT and will be dealt with as such.
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    • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
      edited May 2019
      alaric63 wrote: »
      neoakiraii wrote: »
      Whats this notion that Starfleet captains have to sacrifice themselves for their crew???

      It's pretty dumb for a Captain with experience during a war to sacrifice himself for some ensigns if said ensign wants to fine..... Starfleet is going to need experience captains especially during wartime they don't want them taking bullets for Ensign Ricky

      Also even if it was Prime Lorca he was injured and he did want the phaser from you to fight when the cave was being overrun so he wast cowering he did want to go out...its not like he ordered her to kill herself she took it upon herself to do it, and once again he was injured he want gonna run over and stop her and they all die...needs of the many people

      Wrong. There is a very strong tradition of Star Fleet captains taking the heat for their crew. How many times has an injured Kirk or Picard stood up and shielded their crew from harm?

      That last act of bravery is not on Lorca, like the others are. But, what those brave officers did, is exactly what you expect a Captain to do. Find a way out, or sacrifice yourself, not your crew.

      Starfleet doesn't want their experience veteran captains to kill themselves... it's dumb the whole I need to sacrifice myself for my crew is dumb I can see if it's to save the whole ship and crew but one person no it's dumb...Picard shot Borg crew members without hesitation...a good captain doesn't get himself killed and leave his crew leaderless and Captains are not going to always have plot story to save the day gotta make those hard choices like Riker told Troi when she sent Geordi to die during the command test so yeah you're wrong self sacrifice doesn't make a good captain and Starfleet would prefer you send Ensign Ricky to die
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    • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
      Now, as to Mirror Lorca, his fate is decided in the show. As to his Mirror Universe origins after the fact, that is deemed classified by Starfleet for in show reasons.
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    • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
      Substitute an '*' for a letter and you are golden. You don't have to put up with that sh*tty 'TRIBBLE' (my typing). ;)

      Actually, Captain Ron Tracey may end up with that Title.
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    • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
      Far as I've seen with the acronyms is Ent (Enterprise), TOS (The Original Series), TNG (The Next Generation), Voy (Voyager) and DSC (Discovery, as I was corrected on, thank you :) ). I would guess that the Picard show might use something like PIC.

      No ST in front of acronyms at all.
      Now a LTS and loving it.
      Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
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    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
      I just did re-ran the mission with my AoD captain, it's actually kind of vague that Lorca's pod was the only escape pod launched, the way it's repesented they could have been other pods that we didn't see or the klingons destroyed (yes we learn after the fact that no other escape pods were launched but the scene is vague enough to not discount that possibility).

      So it's not impossible for starfleet to assume that the Buran launched as many pods as it could but only 1 of those pods could be rescued and that was the pod holding Lorca.
      neoakiraii wrote: »
      Whats this notion that Starfleet captains have to sacrifice themselves for their crew???

      It's pretty dumb for a Captain with experience during a war to sacrifice himself for some ensigns if said ensign wants to fine..... Starfleet is going to need experience captains especially during wartime they don't want them taking bullets for Ensign Ricky

      Also even if it was Prime Lorca he was injured and he did want the phaser from you to fight when the cave was being overrun so he wasn't cowering he did want to go out fighting ...its not like he ordered her to kill herself she took it upon herself to do it, and once again he was injured he was not gonna run over and stop her and they all die...needs of the many people
      It's the notion that officers shouldn't waste the lives of their men needlessly taken to illogical extreme. Nothing in Trek I can remember suggest such a rule in Starfleet and seeing as Kirk didn't commit ritual suicide at first case of redshirt death or the command officer applitude test explictly demands the officer to sacrifice the life of crewmember, it rather strongly suggests no such rule exists.

      Note the wording "needlessly" there, as in officers should send men to their deaths just because they can. What it doesn't mean is that once you reach command position your life matters less then that of your men.
      Also...why didn't you stop her....who's the real bad captain
      or arm the detonator yourself when she was busy considering the option.
    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
      And for the 10000th time Lorca wasn't cowering, he was injured. He sat at the cave because he could barely walk and would have just been at best a burden for the other to protect so the klingons wouldn't capture him the term "high value target" was actually used in the mission referring to Lorca as such.

      Can you give some examples of Kirk or especially Picard going into battle while being barely able to walk, hell I can't remember that many times Picard joined away teams to begin with it was mostly Riker who went on those, while Picard was safe on board the Enterprise-D
    • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
      The Federation was at war at the time, and as far as Starfleet knew, Lorca was still an experienced Captain who had just lost his ship in combat with the enemy. At this point the very existance of the Mirror Universe was unknown the Starfleet and the Federation. As far as they knew, Lorca was injured in combat with the Klingons and was psychologically affected by the loss of the Buran, which could explain the more aggressive style he would adopt. Just like Landry became a bit of a hardass after losing everything and everyone she cared about.

      The fact that Lorca was able to blend in for as long as he did when the next time Starfleet would encounter the Mirror Universe they got caught almost instantly due to how aggressive they were... shows that Lorca was actually pretty smart too. But... as soon as Lorca got what he wanted, he showed his true colors.

      The main issue though is that again, they were at war and they couldn't afford to lose experienced Captains. As far as Starfleet was aware, the Buran was lost in combat. Not self destructed by Lorca to cover up the fact that Lorca wasn't the Lorca from the Prime Universe.

      Also OP... to answer your question about what Gatekeeping is, basically its when someone decides that subject X cannot be Y if variable Z is in play.
      Basically... Steve declaring that Bob (subject X) cannot be a Star Trek Fan (Y) because they like Discovery (Variable Z). And publically attacking them for it. That is basically Gatekeeping. Trying to decide who is and who isn't "part of the club" based on "personal bias and/or judgement". No one has any say over who can or can't be a Trek Fan based on which series they like or dislike.
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    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
      echatty wrote: »
      Far as I've seen with the acronyms is Ent (Enterprise), TOS (The Original Series), TNG (The Next Generation), Voy (Voyager) and DSC (Discovery, as I was corrected on, thank you :) ). I would guess that the Picard show might use something like PIC.

      No ST in front of acronyms at all.
      there's few times when you might attach the "ST" in front but it's always with the full 3(or more) letter acronym never with just the first letter of the name, so ST:VOY not ST:V, ST:ENT not ST:E since using the first letter would cause confusion.

      TOS, TAS and TNG all share the first letter in their official acronyms, as do DSC and DS9 (funny how the censored acronym was never used for DS9, yet seems to be used more then the official one for DSC) and ST:V could be confused with ST:5
    • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
      spiritborn wrote: »
      or arm the detonator yourself when she was busy considering the option.
      [/quote]
      Landry and him where still discussing alternative options when she decided to do it manually.
      How would he stop her? Stun her and get her shot as she stumbles in plain view of the Klingons?

      And should a Captain really sacrifice himself so pointlessly? He's still the superior officer with more experience and authority. She is his goddamn security officer, it's her job to keep her Captain and his crew safe. If anyone has responsibility to sacrifice him- or herself it's her!

      Seriously, imagine it was Worf or Picard that blows himself up to collapse the cave entrance. Are you really suggesting Worf would let Pircard do it? Heck, replace Worf with Tasha Yar.
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    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
      Landry and him where still discussing alternative options when she decided to do it manually.
      How would he stop her? Stun her and get her shot as she stumbles in plain view of the Klingons?

      And should a Captain really sacrifice himself so pointlessly? He's still the superior officer with more experience and authority. She is his goddamn security officer, it's her job to keep her Captain and his crew safe. If anyone has responsibility to sacrifice him- or herself it's her!

      Seriously, imagine it was Worf or Picard that blows himself up to collapse the cave entrance. Are you really suggesting Worf would let Pircard do it? Heck, replace Worf with Tasha Yar.

      Well I've been arguing that the captain shouldn't throw away their life so needlessly, it's the OP who thinks the captain should sacrifice their life regardless of the cost, even going so far as to limp into the battlefield seriously injured to make sure the enemy either kills or captures the captain just so the captain wouldn't be seen as "cowering".

      The part about Patel is to point out that our character is just as guilty of her death as Lorca possibly even more so since our character wasn't injured while it was a plot point that Lorca was seriously injured.
    • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
      Nice of you to not read my points at all. Irony much?

      Your point is that you don't know anything about the very incident this mission is predicated upon, because you don't want to watch the episodes setting it up. Anything you say after that is just noise. It'd be like my trying to critique, say, the backgrounds of the main characters in Casablanca, a movie I've never watched. I have no basis on which to lay my arguments, so they would just be noise.
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    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      The Federation was at war at the time, and as far as Starfleet knew, Lorca was still an experienced Captain who had just lost his ship in combat with the enemy. At this point the very existance of the Mirror Universe was unknown the Starfleet and the Federation. As far as they knew, Lorca was injured in combat with the Klingons and was psychologically affected by the loss of the Buran, which could explain the more aggressive style he would adopt. Just like Landry became a bit of a hardass after losing everything and everyone she cared about.

      The fact that Lorca was able to blend in for as long as he did when the next time Starfleet would encounter the Mirror Universe they got caught almost instantly due to how aggressive they were... shows that Lorca was actually pretty smart too. But... as soon as Lorca got what he wanted, he showed his true colors.

      The main issue though is that again, they were at war and they couldn't afford to lose experienced Captains. As far as Starfleet was aware, the Buran was lost in combat. Not self destructed by Lorca to cover up the fact that Lorca wasn't the Lorca from the Prime Universe.
      Also as I pointed out earlier the way it's depicted in the mission doesn't exclude that other pods were launched (while we know that none were launched, Starfleet of the time wouldn't have our knowledge about this).

      The way the mission should work (remember this is suppose to be the second mission after the tutorial, so you're unlikely to have super powerful ship or crew) is that you'll still end up fighting klingons after the destruction of the Buran, so there's technically time for the klingons to destroy the other lifepods had they been launched.

    • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
      spiritborn wrote: »
      rattler2 wrote: »
      The Federation was at war at the time, and as far as Starfleet knew, Lorca was still an experienced Captain who had just lost his ship in combat with the enemy. At this point the very existance of the Mirror Universe was unknown the Starfleet and the Federation. As far as they knew, Lorca was injured in combat with the Klingons and was psychologically affected by the loss of the Buran, which could explain the more aggressive style he would adopt. Just like Landry became a bit of a hardass after losing everything and everyone she cared about.

      The fact that Lorca was able to blend in for as long as he did when the next time Starfleet would encounter the Mirror Universe they got caught almost instantly due to how aggressive they were... shows that Lorca was actually pretty smart too. But... as soon as Lorca got what he wanted, he showed his true colors.

      The main issue though is that again, they were at war and they couldn't afford to lose experienced Captains. As far as Starfleet was aware, the Buran was lost in combat. Not self destructed by Lorca to cover up the fact that Lorca wasn't the Lorca from the Prime Universe.
      Also as I pointed out earlier the way it's depicted in the mission doesn't exclude that other pods were launched (while we know that none were launched, Starfleet of the time wouldn't have our knowledge about this).

      The way the mission should work (remember this is suppose to be the second mission after the tutorial, so you're unlikely to have super powerful ship or crew) is that you'll still end up fighting klingons after the destruction of the Buran, so there's technically time for the klingons to destroy the other lifepods had they been launched.

      Although it 'sounds' vague whether pods were launched, we know this was not the case from the mouth of the Lorca himself. He was even questioned on why by the Admiralty.
      "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
    • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
      Look here, folks. I've already mentioned it towards the top of this page, but here it is goes again: use of the censored acronym and its variations that attempt to bypass the censor are considered trolling per the FCT and will be dealt with as such. I'm not going to bother editing out one word however many times it's repeated in a post. I don't have time for that. I'll just remove the whole post. Then I'll continue by issuing warnings if it persists. So, go ahead. Get creative with your phonetic spellings, spacings, and special characters. Eventually, you'll end up with a vacation.
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    • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
      > @echatty said:
      > Far as I've seen with the acronyms is Ent (Enterprise), TOS (The Original Series), TNG (The Next Generation), Voy (Voyager) and DSC (Discovery, as I was corrected on, thank you :) ). I would guess that the Picard show might use something like PIC.
      >
      > No ST in front of acronyms at all.

      The official acronym for Voyager is actually VGR. Memory Alpha just refuses and uses VOY (and DIS for that matter) because, and people often confuse MA with official sources.
      lFC4bt2.gif
      ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
      "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
      "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
      "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    • rimmarierimmarie Member Posts: 418 Arc User
      To be fair OP, all the responses you received to your original posts were just explanations to why Lorca was acting the why he was after you found him in the escape pod.
      Quite a big season 1 spoiler, but since you have no intention of watching Discovery, its not such a big deal i guess.

      that aside, the writers of the STO mission seem to make it obvious something is different about Lorca.
      They first show how much he was willing to sacrifice for his crew (when he risked his life to help Landry when the bulkhead fell on her)
      then in contrast, how easily he agreed to let Th'Pev hold off the Klingons by himself.

      the story isn't complete, so maybe we will get to hear more about it from Starfleet in later episodes (or even Section 31)

      TBH You really should watch Discovery. At the very least, you can say you watched it and didn't like it
      alaric63 wrote: »
      I can't watch ST Discovery due to the condition of the Klinks. That's two outright abominations ST Discovery is responsible for.

      This bothered me too, but not enough to not watch the show
      The Klingons do get updated in season two. IMHO they look much better now

    • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
      angrytarg wrote: »
      > @echatty said:
      > Far as I've seen with the acronyms is Ent (Enterprise), TOS (The Original Series), TNG (The Next Generation), Voy (Voyager) and DSC (Discovery, as I was corrected on, thank you :) ). I would guess that the Picard show might use something like PIC.
      >
      > No ST in front of acronyms at all.

      The official acronym for Voyager is actually VGR. Memory Alpha just refuses and uses VOY (and DIS for that matter) because, and people often confuse MA with official sources.
      Still you probably won't see ST:V in official sources to refer to Voyager ST:VGR sure but not ST:V (since it's so easy to confuse it with the movie "Star Trek V:The Final Frontier" the "V" there being the roman numeral 5) and like I said it's kind intresting that the censored acronym has never been suggested for Deep Space 9 even though its name starts with same letter as Discovery.
    • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
      > @spiritborn said:
      > Still you probably won't see ST:V in official sources to refer to Voyager ST:VGR sure but not ST:V (since it's so easy to confuse it with the movie "Star Trek V:The Final Frontier" the "V" there being the roman numeral 5) and like I said it's kind intresting that the censored acronym has never been suggested for Deep Space 9 even though its name starts with same letter as Discovery.

      "ST" is never part of the acronym, especially not officially. Never has been and never will be (at least to my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong). I think it only makes sense if you talk about the movies and number them "STI-XIII" (without colon), however I think that the TNG and KT films are more commonly referred to by title and the TOS films are usually referred to by number.

      People insisting on writing "ST:V" for instance are just spiteful and keep doing it out of principle after being told that there was a official way of adressing this that avoids confusion.
      lFC4bt2.gif
      ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
      "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
      "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
      "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
      edited May 2019
      angrytarg wrote: »

      The official acronym for Voyager is actually VGR. Memory Alpha just refuses and uses VOY (and DIS for that matter) because, and people often confuse MA with official sources.

      Memory Alpha uses VOY because that is what is most commonly used. I have honestly never seen anyone abbreviate Voyager as 'VGR,' it's always been VOY to the best of my knowledge.

      I guess though that since there is no way to decide or declare what is or what isn't 'official' or 'correct,' in the end it's just down to personal preference.
      Insert witty signature line here.
    This discussion has been closed.