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Feedback on Impossibility of Reason

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  • centurian821centurian821 Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    grizzly473 wrote: »
    Then there's the whole Landry /Patel thing. Who cares. I get it, you want to be progressive and inclusive. Oh and I am sure you will think I am some intolerant monster. Truth is I just don't care about it. I don't give two flying craps about what team you play for, you love who you love and that's great. I'm just saying I feel that kind of TRIBBLE ultimately has no bearing on the story line, don't care if it's man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, tentacles/bug.

    If you really didn't care, this would not be part of your rant. Just saying.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,378 Arc User
    grizzly473 wrote: »
    Then there's the whole Landry /Patel thing. Who cares. I get it, you want to be progressive and inclusive. Oh and I am sure you will think I am some intolerant monster. Truth is I just don't care about it. I don't give two flying craps about what team you play for, you love who you love and that's great. I'm just saying I feel that kind of TRIBBLE ultimately has no bearing on the story line, don't care if it's man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, tentacles/bug.

    Okay, it arguably has no bearing on the storyline - but it does have a bearing on the Landry character; it's a backstory that shows us why she was the way she was by the time of DSC season 1.



  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    It was better written than kira and odo opting for a snog instead of fighting for the survival on the founders homeworld and as I mentioned earlier it wasn't as contrived or in your face as other games and media have done same sex relationships.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    It was better written than kira and odo opting for a snog instead of fighting for the survival on the founders homeworld and as I mentioned earlier it wasn't as contrived or in your face as other games and media have done same sex relationships.
    Yeah, in a lot of other media relationships like this would be used for fanservice first and foremost which gladly was not done here. What I loved about the Landry/Patel relationship is that they were writen as character who just happen to be in same-sex relationship rather then written as the "g'ay characters".
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 964 Arc User
    To my feedback for the mission. It felt forced w/ a bunch of the dialogue. Not really organic. Having two lovers yelling at each other through comms when they're only a few feet away from each other was dumb and unnecessary. And while the map was "pretty," it has that Coliseum 2: Electric Boogaloo stank all over it, with more fetching, no nifty class trinity option/accolade, and a desire to give Patel the tauntaun treatment. And the hand holding during the mission to get you from one point to the next did nothing to encourage exploration of the icy world.

    More of dumb decisions by Starfleet(Yeah, let's have the "engineer" pop up like a stripper out of a wedding cake during a battle to do the I R Baboon dance and get snipe-peppered as a result. The same one that gets to waddle around w/ the detonator. Let's have "established" couples in the same unit, because what could possibly go wrong with that?), and us being led by the nose. It wasn't as garbage as the previous episode, but that's like putting solid lawn fudge next to liquid lawn fudge. The solid is going to look better, despite being the same thing.


    I liked the Andorian, and Lorca wasn't...too bad...other than some of the dialogue script he had to work with. I had no reason really to become invested in the Landry/Patel "dynamite duo." They felt...there. Even during "big sacrifice moment" that was telegraphed like a Popeye punch windup.

    It was better written than kira and odo opting for a snog instead of fighting for the survival on the founders homeworld and as I mentioned earlier it wasn't as contrived or in your face as other games and media have done same sex relationships.

    That's not a very high standard bar to stumble over w/ the Kira and Odo snuggle during a battle though.
  • dariuskoronikovdariuskoronikov Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    A few things

    The arc adds nothing much really, missions feel too long with very little actual content to justify it

    The Landry/Patel thing.. was a bit..I dunno, I myself have had same sex couples in my foundry missions but in the series itself doesn;t Landry die quite early on..is it ever mentioned there that she had a female lover? seems like a big part of a character to just consign to a computer game not every fan of discovery plays, its not the fact they are a couple..more like they coulda been friends, sisters, anything to suggest closeness, it just seemed a bit of a cheap stunt I guess to seem progressive (when i did my foundry stuff I actually made tewo female characters a couple almost by accident..if you ever played the starfleet odyssey series of foundry missions I'm talking about my Ensign Rolts romance )

    When we went back in time witht he Agents of Yesterday thing it all still tied into the ongoing story running through STO, apart from the whole Mirror Tilly running amock (which i thought they would follow up on ) they haven't done much to integrate the Discovery stuff into it? plus so little new episodes, they remove the Foundry and we get LESS story content

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    The Landry/Patel thing.. was a bit..I dunno, I myself have had same sex couples in my foundry missions but in the series itself doesn;t Landry die quite early on..is it ever mentioned there that she had a female lover? seems like a big part of a character to just consign to a computer game not every fan of discovery plays, its not the fact they are a couple..more like they coulda been friends, sisters, anything to suggest closeness, it just seemed a bit of a cheap stunt I guess to seem progressive (when i did my foundry stuff I actually made tewo female characters a couple almost by accident..if you ever played the starfleet odyssey series of foundry missions I'm talking about my Ensign Rolts romance )
    They said in either this week or last week's livestream that they asked the actress who played the character what she thought would be good background details. The relationship was one of them.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    spiritborn wrote: »
    What I loved about the Landry/Patel relationship is that they were writen as character who just happen to be in same-sex relationship rather then written as the "g'ay characters".
    No, they're still just "g'ay characters". Why? Change their relationship from 'lovers' to 'best friends' and what changes? One filler line about a wedding. No plot point hinge on them being lovers, they were only written as lovers to check the 'has g'ay characters?' checkbox.

    Edit G'A'Y' got censored. Really? We can't say G'A'Y'?

    Nope. Landry's actor requested it. No checkboxes. Though considering you thought that their relationship would not change the plot makes it sound like you want g.ay characters pointing out and othering rather than just blending in means obviously you'd think the only possible reason for their inclusion would be as checkboxes.
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    spiritborn wrote: »
    What I loved about the Landry/Patel relationship is that they were writen as character who just happen to be in same-sex relationship rather then written as the "g'ay characters".
    No, they're still just "g'ay characters". Why? Change their relationship from 'lovers' to 'best friends' and what changes? One filler line about a wedding. No plot point hinge on them being lovers, they were only written as lovers to check the 'has g'ay characters?' checkbox.

    Edit G'A'Y' got censored. Really? We can't say G'A'Y'?

    Nope. Landry's actor requested it. No checkboxes. Though considering you thought that their relationship would not change the plot makes it sound like you want g.ay characters pointing out and othering rather than just blending in means obviously you'd think the only possible reason for their inclusion would be as checkboxes.

    Yeah I think he wants same-sex relationships be exactly what I don't want them to aka pointing out constantly that they're part of a same-sex relationship.

    I know several people who either are in same-sex relationship or have inclination towards that and honestly I've met exactly 1 g'ay person who felt the need to point it out constantly everyone else were just normal people doing normal things who just happened to have partners who were of the same gender as themselves or had desire for such partners for the ones that were single.

    Oh and before you say I'm just straight guy who knows nothing about this, err wrong I'm actually bisexual and was in the closet until fairly recently.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,632 Arc User
    Already said so, but here's my take on this episode:

    Honestly, I was disappointed.

    It was basically Coliseum v1.5, except with thankfully more likable characters, good VA (while I doubt it, considering the ending, I hope to hear more of Rekha Sharma) and better animations.
    The rest was dull, full of idiot ball carriers, an idiot plot and Landry's development into a jerk in the show was rushed. I didn't like it.

    Also, while adding tears for more emotional facial expression is welcome, please improve the textures and lighting, because these tears look more like someone dropped vaseline under Landry's eyes.
    My issues with the episode:
    -Why would the captain and their crew join Lorca's team in a tiny, unprotected shuttle, especially after a Klingon ambush?

    -Lorca is supposedly in such a critical condition a starship medbay wouldn't be enough to keep him alive for long, but he does manage to survive days in a much worse environment than a supposedly inadequate starship medbay. Convenient...

    -our ship doesn't even keep an eye on us as we travel to a space station

    -Why don't we go to warp? Why must we use the old non-FTL way when we have a supposedly critically-injured valuable officer and survivors of an ambush?

    -one-time transport to a cave barely a kilometer away from the crash site, WHAT?! I get that Lorca is once again supposedly critically injured, but seriously, that was the only way for him to reach that cave? Starfleet forgot that stretchers, even made of scrap, existed?

    -"the tracks will vanish in a few hours before of the weather" Oh, that's a nice little twist to counter the usual "they'll track us down to our hiding place". Few minutes later: Oh hey, that was actually pointless and didn't help the slightest!

    -"There is no way out of this cave outside the entrance" Errrr, excuse me? That icy wall behind looks very transparent and showing a lot of light... and we have phasers that can heat rocks for a while, so I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it'll be a way out very soon, and a very easy one at that.

    -Why is the distress beacon in the cave? Wouldn't you want enough openness to increase your chance of people getting its transmissions?

    -Andorian redshirt: "I have a happy family in addition to be a soldier" Congratz, the likeliness of your death before the end of the episode has reached 80 per... "and we're expecting another baby" nevermind, you're 100% dead.

    -Engineer redshirt: "Yay, we won!" As Patel said, just stay under cover, you dumbass, we already know there will be more.

    -Andorian redshirt: "I'll stall them." Err, you know we still have some cover before the cave and it's not like there is a currently visible escape way (actually there is, but the plot says we haven't noticed yet)... no? K, die well and senselessly. And you didn't even pull a Worf and tried to stab Akaar in the gut while he was about to bash your skull, you were so not useful, anyway.

    -Landry: "the engi had the detonator" WHAT?! The whole point of it was to be the last trick in your sleeve to protect the cave! Why doesn't Lorca have it in the first place, he's the one who is the main target and in the cave!

    -Also, why are the explosives so close to the place with supposedly no escape in the first place?

    -As a reminder, the Buran was destroyed. Apparently, the pilot of the shuttle didn't get the memo, because he talks to Lorca like he's a member of his crew and that everything is fine, they were waiting for their captain to come back on the ship.

    Overall, it was a cliché'd episode that brought nothing special and didn't have any twist. From the very beginning of the first episode, you can guess something is going to happen to Patel as she and Landry are too happy together, and the second episode doesn't attempt to subvert expectations.

    Also, while the first episode actually gave us some insight on Prime!Lorca and he was active during it, this second episode is that Mirror!Lorca (because that's definitely him, considering his change of personality) is... kinda just here and just states the obvious.
    Sure, he's wounded, but he could have had more lines. There was potential for some speech as the situation grows more desperate and he's playing with Landry's feelings and ideals, shaping her into a copy of Mirror!Landry for his plans, but Patel is preventing her from going further, so he needs to remove her from the equation one way or another. This could have allowed some psychological depths, like how sociopaths can manipulate others to their cause.

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  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,089 Arc User
    Mirror Tilly running amock (which i thought they would follow up on )

    Problem here is: episodes are not released in chronological order as they fit into the story line, which I find a bit annoying myself. Since these missions take part before Mirror Tilly (in fact before all other non tutorial missions released so far), they cannot follow up, which will probably happen later. Hopefully for players playing the arc later on it all will make more sense than for those playing it now in release order.
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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,462 Arc User
    As a Ray man who has a Ray crush on Dukat...I'm glad they don't just have a parade every time they have Ray characters

    one thing i loved about Mass Effect was Ray's are just there no one says anything it's normal no one cares I love that I just want to sit at the table i don't need to stand out from the table
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  • grizzly473grizzly473 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    grizzly473 wrote: »
    Then there's the whole Landry /Patel thing. Who cares. I get it, you want to be progressive and inclusive. Oh and I am sure you will think I am some intolerant monster. Truth is I just don't care about it. I don't give two flying craps about what team you play for, you love who you love and that's great. I'm just saying I feel that kind of TRIBBLE ultimately has no bearing on the story line, don't care if it's man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, tentacles/bug.

    Okay, it arguably has no bearing on the storyline - but it does have a bearing on the Landry character; it's a backstory that shows us why she was the way she was by the time of DSC season 1.

    If they are interested in back stories, I would much rather see missions built around Cpt. Georgiou and her rise to command. This would allow for more creativity and force the writers to come up with original content.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    If you really didn't care, this would not be part of your rant. Just saying.
    Except that movies and television have been throwing in "forced relationship to establish sexual preference" for decades.

    Two decades ago, it was used in stories that revolved around "too many males" on screen and the studio or the producer wanted a token female in the "sausage fest" to establish that the mostly male cast were not sexually attracted to other males. In the 2009 Star Trek movie, Nero shows Pike a picture of his wife, then Nero stuffs an eel down Pike's throat. My thoughts were "oh good. glad you established Nero's sexuality before he performed questionable acts on Pike". Lately, hack writers/producers/studios are doing the exact same thing with same sex couples because "progress".

    Featured episodes have a limited run time (much like movies and television shows). I do not see it as a bad thing to criticize the inclusion of non-plot elements if those elements appear to be a waste of time. Tight, focused stories are generally better than scatter-shot, "put it all in just because" stories.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    If you really didn't care, this would not be part of your rant. Just saying.
    Except that movies and television have been throwing in "forced relationship to establish sexual preference" for decades.

    Two decades ago, it was used in stories that revolved around "too many males" on screen and the studio or the producer wanted a token female in the "sausage fest" to establish that the mostly male cast were not sexually attracted to other males. In the 2009 Star Trek movie, Nero shows Pike a picture of his wife, then Nero stuffs an eel down Pike's throat. My thoughts were "oh good. glad you established Nero's sexuality before he performed questionable acts on Pike". Lately, hack writers/producers/studios are doing the exact same thing with same sex couples because "progress".

    Featured episodes have a limited run time (much like movies and television shows). I do not see it as a bad thing to criticize the inclusion of non-plot elements if those elements appear to be a waste of time. Tight, focused stories are generally better than scatter-shot, "put it all in just because" stories.
    Ah, but, what is it focused on? See, part of the thing with Nero is that it actually DID have relevance to the plot outside establishing his sexual orientation. Nero was enraged because his family was dead.
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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    Ah, but, what is it focused on? See, part of the thing with Nero is that it actually DID have relevance to the plot outside establishing his sexual orientation. Nero was enraged because his family was dead.
    The most common use of character preferences is "foreshadowing". A character is shown (or claims) they "like mint ice cream, dislike snakes, and like same sex partners". So, later on, character makes an important decision based on: mint ice cream, disliking snakes, or a same sex character. Whatever technique is used, the goal "set up and pay off". That is how you write a tight, focused story.

    With Nero, talking about his dead wife should lead up to a story choice that is based on the wife/family. But it does not happen. By the time that scene occurs, Nero has established he is destroying worlds because Spock failed to save Romulus, which makes talking about Nero's wife redundant. That scene becomes forced, awkward, and ultimately unnecessary since she is never mentioned again. She is only mentioned so the audience does not become "uncomfortable" when Nero stuffs his eel down Pike's throat.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    redvenge wrote: »
    With Nero, talking about his dead wife should lead up to a story choice that is based on the wife/family. But it does not happen. By the time that scene occurs, Nero has established he is destroying worlds because Spock failed to save Romulus, which makes talking about Nero's wife redundant. That scene becomes forced, awkward, and ultimately unnecessary since she is never mentioned again. She is only mentioned so the audience does not become "uncomfortable" when Nero stuffs his eel down Pike's throat.

    Or alternatively, fleshing out characters can be done for its own sake yo make a person feel like a person and not like a plot device. Nero's wife is a device for making it clear Nero is at least likable to somebody and nothing to do with Pike in any way.​​
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,419 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    And from the point of view of a non-DSC watcher... I don't know anything about this Landry person beyond this episode, so the 'character development' doesn't mean as much (there's no "oh, that's why she's like that"). And I also don't know anything about a "Mirror Lorca" (or, heck, regular Lorca), so I didn't notice any difference in the character between these two missions. All the "ah! that's where they switched!" was lost on me.

    They're just kind of.. there. As others mentioned, we're just along for the ride to watch these characters do things; but for someone who doesn't already know the characters & their arcs from DSC, there's even less significance to what we're supposed to be seeing. /shrug

    Overall, it was fine. But nothing special.



    (and yeah, the way they're releasing the various DSC episodes in disjoint order just feels odd.)
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,462 Arc User
    Our characters have taken a back seat long before these new missions came out....best metaphor for it is when Neelix and The Doctor meet up again and you're literary in the background while they talk
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  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Our characters have taken a back seat long before these new missions came out....best metaphor for it is when Neelix and The Doctor meet up again and you're literary in the background while they talk

    Yeah, but in that episode it is only for a minute or two. (I thought it was a nice touch seeing old friends chatting when they met again). Then you are back to actually being the main character.

    In these two new episodes you are nothing more than a red shirt extra for the Discovery people the WHOLE time. Ugh.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    redvenge wrote: »
    With Nero, talking about his dead wife should lead up to a story choice that is based on the wife/family. But it does not happen. By the time that scene occurs, Nero has established he is destroying worlds because Spock failed to save Romulus, which makes talking about Nero's wife redundant. That scene becomes forced, awkward, and ultimately unnecessary since she is never mentioned again. She is only mentioned so the audience does not become "uncomfortable" when Nero stuffs his eel down Pike's throat.
    Or alternatively, fleshing out characters can be done for its own sake yo make a person feel like a person and not like a plot device. Nero's wife is a device for making it clear Nero is at least likable to somebody and nothing to do with Pike in any way.​​
    Yeah the point was to establish that Nero actually had friends and family that cared about him. He was a person with goals and not "just a bad guy".
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    Ok, y'all are way off track here.
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    Ok, y'all are way off track here.
    May I be so bold as to ask for a minor clarification to that, do you mean "you're way off-topic please return to the topic" or "you're wrong about that subject"?
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    My apologies, off topic. Let's return to discussing the actual mission episode.
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    My apologies, off topic. Let's return to discussing the actual mission episode.

    Roger that thank you for the clarification.
  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Back to topic,

    One thing I'll note about the second episode, is that half the times I heard "Kerwin here", I could almost mishear it as "Kurland here" ;)

    Also, the bit with the fumaroles denotes the continued issues with boff AI nicely. They get themselves killed in it quite regularly. ^_^​​
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    tasshena wrote: »
    One thing I'll note about the second episode, is that half the times I heard "Kerwin here", I could almost mishear it as "Kurland here" ;)​​
    Totally intentional, especially since they can't do more Kurland unless Bort gets a screen actors guild card.

  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    tasshena wrote: »
    One thing I'll note about the second episode, is that half the times I heard "Kerwin here", I could almost mishear it as "Kurland here" ;)
    Totally intentional, especially since they can't do more Kurland unless Bort gets a screen actors guild card.

    Yeah, I almost wondered that. ^_^

    Also, I know this is 'quite intentional', but can we have an option partway through the shootout in the holding facility to tell the warden to "shut the f up and do his gd job"? As much as he complains? :p​​
    Post edited by tasshena on
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,845 Arc User
    My biggest issue with these new episodes is that my Captain is just a 'tag along'.

    The story isn't about him/her anymore, it's all about the Discovery characters.

    Now I understand these are holodeck recreations, but even so, I felt I could have just read the ops report and gotten more character growth for MY character. Because isn't that what this game is about? (Not watching NPCs do a bunch of stuff?)

    I actually don't mind that, at least from time to time. It reminds me that I'm not the only Starfleet officer out there who is capable of DOING anything. Lets me feel more IN the setting, if you see what I mean.

    Still waiting for that epic story arc that brings us into a mission with JAMES T. KIRK.

    (Or James R. Kirk, I'm not picky)


    (Ok, actually I am)
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
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