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Captain Lorca is the worst Star Fleet captain ever.

alaric63alaric63 Member Posts: 203 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Can anyone tell me which real Star Fleet captain would let any crew member sacrifice themselves for his own safety, let alone cower in a cave while three officers under his command, valiantly, purposefully, give their lives for his? Lorca's conduct was reprehensible and he should never wear a Star Fleet uniform again.

Would Kirk? Would Picard? Would Archer? We all know the answer to that. Janeway might, but certainly The Sisko would rather lose his life before seeing a crew member take his disruptor blast.

The next episode in the Age of Discovery story line must be Lorca's Court Martial. If there is any justice left in Star Fleet, this man should be prosecuted.

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    sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    What else would you expect from a Terran Mirror variant? Selfishness is the order of the day.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,320 Community Moderator
    Ummm... Mirror Universe Lorca.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,320 Community Moderator
    Ok, so this is a troll thread.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,320 Community Moderator
    Gatekeeping is trolling on this forum.
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    seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    alaric63 wrote: »
    baddmoonrizin wrote: »
    Ok, so this is a troll thread.

    Oh, that's fair. Just go ahead and slap that label around. It must be easy for someone in a position of authority...

    Star Fleet should have known about a MU Lorca. It isn't hard to get the feel. Ya know?

    There are reasons why he was able to manipulate himself into Starfleet.

    Unfortunately, since you don't watch the show you are not familiar with the entire story. You are bashing the writing and the story without having the full understanding of what is happening.

    If you don't like DISCO or don't wish to watch it, then ok.. fair enough. But please understand that aspects of the story are not going to make sense to you and you have to be prepared for that.
    alaric63 wrote: »
    Gatekeeping? Can I know what that is?

    You're not the only one.. I have no idea what that is either.
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    seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    alaric63 wrote: »
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    alaric63 wrote: »
    baddmoonrizin wrote: »
    Ok, so this is a troll thread.

    Oh, that's fair. Just go ahead and slap that label around. It must be easy for someone in a position of authority...

    Star Fleet should have known about a MU Lorca. It isn't hard to get the feel. Ya know?

    There are reasons why he was able to manipulate himself into Star Fleet.

    Unfortunately, since you don't watch the show you are not familiar with the entire story. You are bashing the writing and the story without having the full understanding of what is happening.

    If you don't like DISCO or don't wish to watch it, then ok.. fair enough. But please understand that aspects of the story are not going to make sense to you and you have to be prepared for that.
    alaric63 wrote: »
    Gatekeeping? Can I know what that is?

    You're not the only one.. I have no idea what that is either.

    Does it become necessary to watch that program to enjoy the Game? Shouldn't the game have self contained plot information? I mean, Adm. Quinn should have known that Lorca was a Terran by the time he offered the mission. Why not tell us? I was aghast at his conduct.

    Admiral Quinn has no idea.

    The only people that knew are either dead or presumed dead.

    Normally yes, you're right.. the story should be given in the episode in case the player does not watch the show. This case however is a little different because it's simply not possible to reveal this information in a simulation since the people that made the simulation would not have the information.

    As far as Starfleet History is concerned, Captain Gabriel Lorca was the same person the entire time. He served Starfleet valiantly and was killed in the line of duty. The simulation is made from that standpoint as that would be how it's remembered.

    In this particular case, yes.. you need to watch the show to really know what's going on. There really is no other way it could have been written outside of time travel where you witness it.
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    seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    alaric63 wrote: »
    Current Star Fleet should know that this happened in the distant past. Those creating the simulation in the future should have all the details in order to create an accurate simulation.

    With all due respect, that is not true.

    If you watched the show you would know why.. but Starfleet does not know that at one point Lorca swapped with a mirror counterpart. They cannot put information into the simulation that they do not have. It doesn't matter how far in the past it was, the information does not exist.

    I am not sure how far I can/should go in explanation as I am sure there are people that are not current on Discovery and I don't want to go full 'spoiler mode.'

    All I can tell you is that it makes sense. It's actually quite well written.
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    @alaric63 this is also a mild spoiler, so read at your own risk, but nothing that happens in DSC is common knowledge. The way the show (season two) ends makes sure nothing of the show is actually of consequence to the universe you find yourself in STO (or other Trek canon). They pull a "Area 51" on it.

    That being said, Mirror Lorca posing as his prime universe counterpart even to people who have intimate knowledge of him is indeed not very plausible. Yes you need the show to know this, but don't think it's really elaborately planned out there as it's suggested here. It's not.
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    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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    sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    "seaofsorrows wrote: »
    In this particular case, yes.. you need to watch the show to really know what's going on. There really is no other way it could have been written outside of time travel where you witness it.

    This is very true. Cryptic/CBS can't always collaboratively plan exactly what's going to happen in the show/game.

    Different venues, different writers. "Defiance" this is certainly not, and STO existed long before Discovery was introduced.
    It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.

    Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    Doppelgänger stories never make sense, especially the mirror universe kind. But movies often like to show that replaced people reasonably pose as their counterpart even to intimate relationships. But in TV, even spouses treat each other like mere acquaintances, otherwise this would never work. I discuss this every time with my wife and when you are close you will have insiders. A single word should be enough to expose the Doppelgänger with literally every one you see on a regular basis, let alone share a bed with.
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    #TASforSTO
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    garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,845 Arc User
    is he not injured? and you should really try dscvry. i suggest begin with S 2 or with Into the Forest I Go from season 1
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    https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1249570/axanar-locks-in-start-date-for-filming
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    sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    I watched Discovery until about half of Season 2 and lost interest. Just not my cup of tea.

    Conceptually, it's not a bad show... problem is it's all over the map in terms of plot holes and devices. I don't mind the "progressive agenda" thing as much, as I think this world actually needs to wake the hell up and be more like the Star Trek Universe in terms of inclusion (perhaps those who disagree may become the future "archnemesis" types) but rather it's oftentimes very confusing or just outright tries too hard to be "different" from prior ST shows.

    Then there's a lot of character backstories and such that have yet to be revealed, even among some of the more featured ones. They need to spend a bit more time in between "shock and awe" episodes to fill in some gaps and do character development, even if it seems unimportant in regard to shock value. Well, at least if they hope it to survive as many seasons as prior shows and not just be another "Michael Baysplosions" flavor of TV show.

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    Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    alaric63 wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me which real Star Fleet captain would let any crew member sacrifice themselves for his own safety, let alone cower in a cave while three officers under his command, valiantly, purposefully, give their lives for his? Lorca's conduct was reprehensible and he should never wear a Star Fleet uniform again.

    Would Kirk? Would Picard? Would Archer? We all know the answer to that. Janeway might, but certainly The Sisko would rather lose his life before seeing a crew member take his disruptor blast.

    The next episode in the Age of Discovery story line must be Lorca's Court Martial. If there is any justice left in Star Fleet, this man should be prosecuted.

    One of the Starfleet Command tests is about whether you're willing to send one of your officers to certain death to save the rest of the team. So Starfleet commanding officers are definitely trained to be willing to sacrifice others.

    His conduct is not uncommon, and it could have happened under any Captain.

    He also isn't cowering - he's injured and in need of more medical attention than available.
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    @mustrumridcully0 good point. See Wesley/Beverly/Jean-Luc. The whole dynamic between them is based on Jean-Luc sending Jack Crusher on a mission that killed him
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
    #TASforSTO
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
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    questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,318 Arc User
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    alaric63 wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me which real Star Fleet captain would let any crew member sacrifice themselves for his own safety, let alone cower in a cave while three officers under his command, valiantly, purposefully, give their lives for his? Lorca's conduct was reprehensible and he should never wear a Star Fleet uniform again.

    Would Kirk? Would Picard? Would Archer? We all know the answer to that. Janeway might, but certainly The Sisko would rather lose his life before seeing a crew member take his disruptor blast.

    The next episode in the Age of Discovery story line must be Lorca's Court Martial. If there is any justice left in Star Fleet, this man should be prosecuted.

    One of the Starfleet Command tests is about whether you're willing to send one of your officers to certain death to save the rest of the team. So Starfleet commanding officers are definitely trained to be willing to sacrifice others.

    His conduct is not uncommon, and it could have happened under any Captain.

    He also isn't cowering - he's injured and in need of more medical attention than available.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bridge_Officer's_Test
    Was about to point that out.
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Delta Rising required knowledge of VGR, Agents of Yesterday required knowledge of TOS, Victory is Life required knowledge of DS9, and Rise of Discovery requires knowledge of DSC.
    It is not the game's fault you can't be bothered to watch the show to understand a tie in episode, it is your fault.​​
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    xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    Since it doesn't seem to have been answered yet, "gatekeeping" here refers to "deciding yourself what is properly part of Star Trek and what isn't". Not liking Discovery is okay, however wanting DSC content removed (not in this thread, has happened in others), deciding "it is not canon cause I said so" (again other threads) is gatekeeping ("you're not getting in with these shoes" bouncer style). Here bmr probably referred to your post reading a bit like "I don't watch Discovery, any therefore unexplained story elements are not my fault, because knowing DSC isn't necessary to Star Trek knowledge").

    As for the writers of the simulation surely knowing about the mirroricity of Lorca: it doesn't really matter. A simulation of a situation should give you said situation as it unfolded at the time, otherwise it would be something different. Now those partaking in the simulation may have additional knowledge, but if nobody knew Lorca was switched at the time then nobody in the simulation should know.
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    peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Im willing to bet 1Bil EC that the OP will hate the new Picard show as well and anything STO integrates from that show!

    Any takers?
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