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Low DPS on Buran Class?

lexusk19lexusk19 Member Posts: 1,407 Arc User
First off, I love the look of this ship, shes amazing, got her fitted out with all Disco stuff to. All gold, all max lvl. But Compared to my other ships, she just doesn't hit worth a darn... Damage numbers are very low most shots unless I land a crit. Is this just a side effect of Command ships? Even the pets seem to be lack luster.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Only 3 tac console slots, no Lt. Commander tac boff station, 4/4 gun ports. I can imagine. :/

    Didn't they ask about command powers elsewhere not so long ago? Perhaps they rebalance and make them more useful in the future.

    Too bad the Buran can't slot the Terran Empire Frigates pets from the Styx or the ship would have made a rather good PvE supporter. Depending on the option to stack the ships trait between multiple players at least that one looks interesting.


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  • lexusk19lexusk19 Member Posts: 1,407 Arc User
    Only 3 tac console slots, no Lt. Commander tac boff station, 4/4 gun ports. I can imagine. :/

    Didn't they ask about command powers elsewhere not so long ago? Perhaps they rebalance and make them more useful in the future.

    Too bad the Buran can't slot the Terran Empire Frigates pets from the Styx or the ship would have made a rather good PvE supporter. Depending on the option to stack the ships trait between multiple players at least that one looks interesting.


    Sounds about right. :S I love the looks to death, but shes just not as good as even the Walker or Nimitz.. :/
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  • lordbeefy7lordbeefy7 Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    I have found that the pets at elite are very effective.

    Its not a dps monster, but in fairness i dont think thats the aim of the ship. Its an all rounder for me and gives a competent and solid performance in being a jack if all trades.

    I run mine with either antiproton or tetryon as both these types have multiple universal consoles which boost damage.

    Its not the highest dps but its not the worst either. It is the most gorgeous model visually and where the gagarin has the mw trick, this has a hangar for wannabe carrier pilots. After being very hesitant about it at first im now pleasantly surprised at how well it does most jobs.
  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    You can make it work but you'll need a lot more effort and thought as compared to your run off the mill tac beam cruiser. The reason you're missing alot is probably beause you're relying mostly on FAW1 & FAW2 which are craptastic without a lot of ACC boosts. Also as peterconnorfirst pointed out 3 tac slots isn't that great these days and without a bunch of set boosts not enough for standard beams boats.

    While it's a damn beautiful ship it's stats make it a hard pass for me.
  • ddwarhorse#2097 ddwarhorse Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I really dislike these kinds of players. In a casual game like this, they are all "If it doesn't do the best DPS, its useless". I am so sick of players like that. People like that are what Esports are for, not casual games like this one that will never reach Esport status. Its so annoying to encounter these kind of player. Sapping all the fun out of the game.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I really dislike these kinds of players. In a casual game like this, they are all "If it doesn't do the best DPS, its useless". I am so sick of players like that. People like that are what Esports are for, not casual games like this one that will never reach Esport status. Its so annoying to encounter these kind of player. Sapping all the fun out of the game.

    Fascinating, I don't dislike players who don't care a bit about how well they perform in a teamed PvE environment.

    I let them enjoy the game the they want and still help with any rewards they might need.

    Why do I have such an easy time with that and you apperantly do not? :)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • ddwarhorse#2097 ddwarhorse Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    > @peterconnorfirst said:
    > ddwarhorse ddwarhorse#2097
    >
    > wrote: »
    >
    > I really dislike these kinds of players. In a casual game like this, they are all "If it doesn't do the best DPS, its useless". I am so sick of players like that. People like that are what Esports are for, not casual games like this one that will never reach Esport status. Its so annoying to encounter these kind of player. Sapping all the fun out of the game.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Facenating, I don't dislike those players who don't care a bit about how well they perform in a teamed PvE environment.
    >
    > I let them enjoy the game how they want and still help with any rewards they might need. :)

    Those kinds of players are not toxic to the overall atmosphere of the game
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    > @peterconnorfirst said:
    > ddwarhorse ddwarhorse#2097
    >
    > wrote: »
    >
    > I really dislike these kinds of players. In a casual game like this, they are all "If it doesn't do the best DPS, its useless". I am so sick of players like that. People like that are what Esports are for, not casual games like this one that will never reach Esport status. Its so annoying to encounter these kind of player. Sapping all the fun out of the game.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Facenating, I don't dislike those players who don't care a bit about how well they perform in a teamed PvE environment.
    >
    > I let them enjoy the game how they want and still help with any rewards they might need. :)

    Those kinds of players are not toxic to the overall atmosphere of the game

    Lol yep, I read that in every chat of a faild pug run I remember. :D
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    First off, I love the look of this ship, shes amazing, got her fitted out with all Disco stuff to. All gold, all max lvl. But Compared to my other ships, she just doesn't hit worth a darn... Damage numbers are very low most shots unless I land a crit. Is this just a side effect of Command ships? Even the pets seem to be lack luster.

    What DPS numbers are you looking at to really compare it to something else? THe damage numbers popping up in game, or are you actually running a combat log parser?

    What's your build?

    The greatest disadvantage the ship has is that it doesn't have a Lt.Cmdr slot for tactical powers. If you run with Beam Fire At Will, that means you're limited to Rank II, which has lower DPS gains and more accuracy losses than Beam Fire At WIll III. However, there are ways to compensate for lowered accuracy.

    I believe the go-to for maximum DPS might be running 3 Lt.Tactical slots. Pick Kemocite Laced Weaponry, Tactical Team and Distributed Targeting as Ensign Powers, and Attack Pattern Beta, Beam Fire At Will (or Scatter Volley, if cannon build) and Torpedo Spread for Lt. Powers.
    Cannon builds can work, though you need to be a decent pilot to make the best out of the lower turn rate (and the usual turn rate buffs, but who flies ships without them?).
    Emergency Power to Weapons III and Overwhelm Emitters or Suppression Barrage might make good Command/Engineering powers to boost damage output further. (I mean, Emergency Power is kinda a must if you run with energy weapons.)
    A mix of Gravity Well I, Science Team, Hazard Emitters are kinda my gotos for Science slots, but there might be better options.

    I have yet to try a full on torpedo build, but that might be a worth an experiment, if you know how to run torpedo builds and have the gear for it already.

    Personally, I am running a Buran with a Beam build, and the Klingon ship with a cannon build. My impression is the cannon build is actually more destructive, but I might not be a good enough pilot to max out my DPS potential. So when the targets are in my firing arc, things melt rapidly, but I might spend too much time not on target. But I am also relatively lazy and don't use speed buffs all that often.

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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,177 Arc User
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    First off, I love the look of this ship, shes amazing, got her fitted out with all Disco stuff to. All gold, all max lvl. But Compared to my other ships, she just doesn't hit worth a darn... Damage numbers are very low most shots unless I land a crit. Is this just a side effect of Command ships? Even the pets seem to be lack luster.
    Its not a side effect of command ships its just the Buran is pretty poor compared to the other command ships. While the Buran ship is very inflexible in that only a small amount of builds work well on it one build that works very well is an Exotic torpedo boat based around high yields and rifts.

    The default pets are luster as they have a broken AI. I would swap them out for decent pets.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,177 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I've heard reports of the ship hitting 170+k DPS, more than enough for anything the game offers.
    It doesn't really work like that as performance in ISA doesn't really represent how your performance will be in other TFOs. I am not saying it cannot do enough for other content in game, only that looking at ISA DPS is not a reliable indication of how good or bad a ship is at the rest of the content. More so with the high DPS fast ISA runs. 100k+ ISA runs can be very misleading.

    At least the devs listened to us and improved the ship so we didn't get the rubbish posted in the original dev blog. The ship we got has an improved range of builds options and improved DPS build options over the original dev blog.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    At least the devs listened to us and improved the ship so we didn't get the rubbish posted in the original dev blog. The ship we got has an improved range of builds options and improved DPS build options over the original dev blog.
    I don't see any difference from the original stats when it was first announced. What changed?

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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,309 Arc User
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    First off, I love the look of this ship, shes amazing, got her fitted out with all Disco stuff to. All gold, all max lvl. But Compared to my other ships, she just doesn't hit worth a darn... Damage numbers are very low most shots unless I land a crit. Is this just a side effect of Command ships? Even the pets seem to be lack luster.

    @lexusk19
    Can you post your link in skill planner?
    https://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/

    For reference the wiki on the Buran:
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Buran_Command_Dreadnought_Cruiser
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,177 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    At least the devs listened to us and improved the ship so we didn't get the rubbish posted in the original dev blog. The ship we got has an improved range of builds options and improved DPS build options over the original dev blog.
    I don't see any difference from the original stats when it was first announced. What changed?
    The blog has some errors in it. Someone told me there was a minor change in bridge officer seating but I cannot see that. What I can see is the console slots in the scaling blog do not match the listed slots. In one place the scaling said 3 Tactical, 5 Engineering, 3 Science in another area in the same blog it says 4 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 3 Science. Just something to be aware off it you are going to buy it.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,003 Community Moderator
    If and when I get the Buran, I plan on slotting in Overwhelm Emitters and Suppression Barrage, using the Lt Universal to replace the two engie powers I traded for Command. Slap on an AP Beta 1 and Kemocite... should be serviceable. Might even be relatively nasty in a broadside.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    First off, I love the look of this ship, shes amazing, got her fitted out with all Disco stuff to. All gold, all max lvl. But Compared to my other ships, she just doesn't hit worth a darn... Damage numbers are very low most shots unless I land a crit. Is this just a side effect of Command ships? Even the pets seem to be lack luster.

    The ship is not a DPS oriented ship. I am not sure why you were expecting any different given it's layout. You can certainly make it 'good enough' and highly skilled players can still get respectable numbers out of it, but it's always going to be more work to push any type of real damage in this ship then it would be in a ship that's more situated to that task.
    Those kinds of players are not toxic to the overall atmosphere of the game

    The only toxic player in this thread is you. Keep your self righteous judgments to yourself. The OP just wants to improve performance and you're attacking them for no reason.
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I've heard reports of the ship hitting 170+k DPS, more than enough for anything the game offers.

    Yep, very true. Even if you're not a 'DPS God' you can still get good enough performance out of the Buran for any story line content and most, if not all, advanced queues. It will take some work.. it won't be as easy as it would be in something like the Gagarin or Arbiter, but it's do-able.

    170k is well beyond anything you would ever need. Even half that and you should be on easy street.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    One of our fleet leader managed around the 170K mark with it; and that was after he assumed the ship was a total loss so even he was surprised.
    It can be a potent ship but you'd have to know what you're doing to get the most from it, and yes an ISA parse means little in the rest of the game as it's a very specific set of circumstances.

    But i'm enjoying the ship myself. It's not a massive heavy hitter, it's slow as a dead whale, it's not terribly flexible and yes there are better ships for the same role. BUT it look beautiful and it just feels nice to not be worried about DPS and just enjoy the game at a leisurely pace. It easily managed everything I took it into so far (Argala advanced runs to level it, the current featured TFO, The Badlands BZ).
    A lot of the time you really don't need more than 30K to be able to handle all the game has to offer for the majority of players.
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  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    lexusk19 wrote: »
    First off, I love the look of this ship, shes amazing, got her fitted out with all Disco stuff to. All gold, all max lvl. But Compared to my other ships, she just doesn't hit worth a darn... Damage numbers are very low most shots unless I land a crit. Is this just a side effect of Command ships? Even the pets seem to be lack luster.

    I'm having the exact opposite experience, it's hitting a lot harder than I'd ever have expected.

    For Tac BOFF powers, try BFAWII TS1, APB, KLW1.

    For gear, traits, and BOFF powers for cool down management , try using its own ship trait Unified Engineering (tooltip currently doesn't show that it reduces BOFF timers in the same way that Photonic Officer does), as well as Entwined Tactical Matrices, Prevailing Fortified Impulse Engines, Photonic Officer II, ASIF1 and Concentrate Firepower.

    Pretty much have everything knocked to global cool down all the time, with a constant stream of BFAW, TS, and THY going. It's SHOCKINGLY effective when set up right.
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,711 Community Moderator
    [hand on mod sword] I'm only going to say this part once so I advise that you listen. certain people in here need to dial it way way back. If you can't debate civilly then I will have to use this sword. [hand off sword]

    Now that the unpleasent part is out of the way. The Buran is extremely limited in its seating and the fact it doesn't even have a Lt Cmdr tac definitely hurts it. Three tactical consoles is easily doable and if folks are used to 4 or 5 those extra consoles can easily be made up for elsewhere. With that said in this game it's about 20% gear and setup, the other 80% is the piloting. How are you flying the ship, when are you using certain powers, and so on.

    From what I'm seeing here it sounds like you've got enough crit chance but not enough severity. put your build together on stoacademy.com and send it to us. don't mind helping you out in game at some point if you would like it either.
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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    Pulled the trigger and bought one. She's the best Cryptic designed ship yet, a beauty at all angels. But is hurt by her boff seating.
    Sure she ain't going to break any dps records with it, i'm sure I can find a nice blend of dps and tank to make her useful. be such a shame for such a lovely design to be relegated to Admirality card because of those boff stations
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  • feliseanfelisean Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    basically the main difference to other cruisers is the possibility to use faw3 on other ships but only faw 2 on that one. but at the end thats just a 5% dmg difference when faw is running.

    every t5+ ship is viable for elite content, you just need a decent-good build for it ;)
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,003 Community Moderator
    Skill is still a factor as TIMING BOff abilities can also have an impact. Just spamming abilities doesn't always work. Popping an Engie Team when you don't have hull damage or any Engie Debuffs is a waste, popping Overwhelm Emitters on something that has no shields to drain is a waste...

    And before anyone tries to counter what I say with "Only need DPS because it can't hurt you if its dead", not everyone runs DPS builds that can vaporize anything just by looking at it. And not everyone can afford to min/max the shtako out of their builds either. Some people actually enjoy a bit of a battle.
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    And no, skill isn't a factor once the game is understood. It's just pressing buttons, after all. And some people even automate that away.
    the-enemy-cannot-push-a-button-if-you-disable-his-hand.jpg

    Automating the process is a problem when cooldowns are messed with. There are SOOOO many ways to mess with cooldowns. Subnuc being one of them. Knowing counters is just as important as knowing how to blow things up.
    h4E895486
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    felisean wrote: »
    basically the main difference to other cruisers is the possibility to use faw3 on other ships but only faw 2 on that one. but at the end thats just a 5% dmg difference when faw is running.

    every t5+ ship is viable for elite content, you just need a decent-good build for it ;)

    Yeah.. well, you can do Elites in a shuttle. :lol:

    Seriously though, this is pretty true.. the only thing I advise on the Buran is to slot something to help with accuracy. The biggest issue for me wasn't the damage difference from FAW II to FAW III, it was the accuracy penalty that comes with FAW II. If I ran this ship, I would probably just slot something like Hostile Acquisition or something cheap to try and make up for the accuracy penalty.

    After that, yeah.. you should be fine in this ship. There is no doubt that a skilled captain could build one to run Elite Content, just takes a little time and practice.
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,711 Community Moderator
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Which just means lots of Epic gear. And no, skill isn't a factor once the game is understood. It's just pressing buttons, after all. And some people even automate that away.

    You don't need epic anything to succeed in this game. It definitely helps but it's by no means required. One can easily piece together a basic cohesive setup using the mk xii very rare gear that drops from story missions. From there all you need is just a basic level of understanding of your build. As long as you have that basic cohesive setup and understanding, you can clear 95% of the content in this game with very little issue. Getting a basic rough idea of what to do and what does what can be obtained by taking no more than 1-2 hours at most, reading what your skills and boff powers do, reading what your traits do, and then piecing it together.

    Skill absolutely comes into play in this game and will play a huge role in someone getting 20k vs 80k+. I've gone into runs with basic mk xii very rare starting gear I pieced together from the story and ran circles around guys with full epics. Epic gear means nothing if you don't know how to use it. You can try to write macros and such. While they're useful tools they'll only get you so far.

    To put it bluntly anyone telling you that you need all gold epic equipment in game to succeed is lying to you.
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  • feliseanfelisean Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    felisean wrote: »
    [...]
    every t5+ ship is viable for elite content, you just need a decent-good build for it ;)

    Which just means lots of Epic gear. And no, skill isn't a factor once the game is understood. It's just pressing buttons, after all. And some people even automate that away.

    beside the build (using synergies ftw) its the piloting. and thats pressing the buttons, but not only pressing the buttons, pressing them at the correct time in the correct order and get your ship into the correct position. and at all those things people tend to strugle.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    That's just it - how many players would be taking it into Elite?

    Very few.

    The majority of the player base doesn't do Elite Queues anyway, and those who do usually favor more powerful ships.

    The intended target audience for this ship clearly isn't the DPS crowd.. and that's fine.
    Insert witty signature line here.
This discussion has been closed.