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I'm confused about this whole Tier 6 from Tier 1 ship thing...

nixbooxnixboox Member Posts: 1,041 Arc User
So, ANY ship is going to be just a self-upgrading ship from Lieutenant to Fleet Admiral? What about the Tier 6 ships we already have? What about the Fleet Tier 6 ships? What about our T5-U ships? Is there going to be some sort of massive refit that goes through and changes all the ships we already have to make them compatible with this new leveling principle?

I feel like there is some sort of "we didn't think this through" going on here now that we have leveling ships and ships that can be reconfigured from one type of profession to another. It would make sense to just refund everyone the ships they've already bought and let them reclaim a version that fits the new criteria. It hardly seems feasible to have a bundle of, say Dyson Science Destroyers with three different ships each with a particular configuration when you could have just ONE ship that can be configured in whatever way you like. Or the purpose of having an upgradeable T5 when the exact same always leveling ship at T6 has nearly the same specs. We would simply abandon the "tier" concept altogether and make all ships leveling ships from the time you get them.

What is the end user experience supposed to be like?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • giliongilion Member Posts: 686 Arc User
    So first, I't only T6 ships that are going to be level-less, everything else is going to stay as is. Not sure about fleet T6 though. This is also going to be a retroactive upgrade, meaning any T6 ships you already have will be updated to work like this, so as soon as the feature launches, you can make a new char and claim and T6 ship you already own to use on the new toon.

    I don't understand what you're talking about configuring how you want. Each ship is still going to have the same layout and configuration, just some of the console and weapon slots will be locked until your char is an appropriate level.
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  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    The way I understand it, the matter is way less complicated, as somtaawkhar and gilion pointed out.

    The only thing that changes is that T6 ships are going to level with you from T1. During this leveling process some slots (e. g. consoles) will be "greyed out" and not useable until you hit level 50. This applies to all T6 ships, no matter how and when they were or will be acquired, and to no other. There is no other reconfiguration possible, so you cannot choose which consoles to unlock or similar, so you cannot turn a science-oriented ship from a bundle into a tac-oriented ship.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    i think they mentioned something about that somewhere...you can start earning mastery XP from the start, but the mastery passives/trait themselves won't unlock until 50​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    So, ANY ship is going to be just a self-upgrading ship from Lieutenant to Fleet Admiral? What about the Tier 6 ships we already have? What about the Fleet Tier 6 ships? What about our T5-U ships? Is there going to be some sort of massive refit that goes through and changes all the ships we already have to make them compatible with this new leveling principle?

    I feel like there is some sort of "we didn't think this through" going on here now that we have leveling ships and ships that can be reconfigured from one type of profession to another.9 It would make sense to just refund everyone the ships they've already bought and let them reclaim a version that fits the new criteria. It hardly seems feasible to have a bundle of, say Dyson Science Destroyers with three different ships each with a particular configuration when you could have just ONE ship that can be configured in whatever way you like. Or the purpose of having an upgradeable T5 when the exact same always leveling ship at T6 has nearly the same specs. We would simply abandon the "tier" concept altogether and make all ships leveling ships from the time you get them.

    What is the end user experience supposed to be like?

    In a nutshell? All C-Store, T6 ships will level with player, so they can use same ship from start-finish if they want. In answer to the bold part, no, you will not be able to be reconfigure a ship from, say, Sci to Tac or vice versa. They remain the ship they are from start to finish.

    The only change to ships is that all C-Store T6 ships will be scaling ships. Any that you already own will change, any fleet T6 ship will also change. I don't think this applies to Lockbox/Lobi or RnD box ships, nor to Event ships. They will still be regular T6 ships that you cannot fly till lvl 40/50
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    So, ANY ship is going to be just a self-upgrading ship from Lieutenant to Fleet Admiral? What about the Tier 6 ships we already have? What about the Fleet Tier 6 ships? What about our T5-U ships? Is there going to be some sort of massive refit that goes through and changes all the ships we already have to make them compatible with this new leveling principle?

    I feel like there is some sort of "we didn't think this through" going on here now that we have leveling ships and ships that can be reconfigured from one type of profession to another. It would make sense to just refund everyone the ships they've already bought and let them reclaim a version that fits the new criteria. It hardly seems feasible to have a bundle of, say Dyson Science Destroyers with three different ships each with a particular configuration when you could have just ONE ship that can be configured in whatever way you like. Or the purpose of having an upgradeable T5 when the exact same always leveling ship at T6 has nearly the same specs. We would simply abandon the "tier" concept altogether and make all ships leveling ships from the time you get them.

    What is the end user experience supposed to be like?

    The edit monster got me, so again:

    Only C-Store T6 ships will scale with the player.

    About the bold part: No, you will not be able to change a ship from one profession to another.

    Lockbox, Lobi and Event ships will not be scaling ships.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    So, ANY ship is going to be just a self-upgrading ship from Lieutenant to Fleet Admiral? What about the Tier 6 ships we already have? What about the Fleet Tier 6 ships? What about our T5-U ships? Is there going to be some sort of massive refit that goes through and changes all the ships we already have to make them compatible with this new leveling principle?

    I feel like there is some sort of "we didn't think this through" going on here now that we have leveling ships and ships that can be reconfigured from one type of profession to another. It would make sense to just refund everyone the ships they've already bought and let them reclaim a version that fits the new criteria. It hardly seems feasible to have a bundle of, say Dyson Science Destroyers with three different ships each with a particular configuration when you could have just ONE ship that can be configured in whatever way you like. Or the purpose of having an upgradeable T5 when the exact same always leveling ship at T6 has nearly the same specs. We would simply abandon the "tier" concept altogether and make all ships leveling ships from the time you get them.

    What is the end user experience supposed to be like?

    The edit monster got me, so again:

    Only C-Store T6 ships will scale with the player.

    About the bold part: No, you will not be able to change a ship from one profession to another.

    Lockbox, Lobi and Event ships will not be scaling ships.

    Loxkbox, Lobi and Event ships will scale.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I stand corrected, thank you.

    I thought they were exempted, thank you for the correction.

    This actually opens up more RP options, then
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    @echatty I fixed your edit issue. You should be ok now.
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    Thank you, kind sir :)
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    another edit monster spawn bites the dust!​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • maniac20#5251 maniac20 Member Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    The one thing I'm concerned about is if we'll be able to use the consoles that come with the ships, since most of them have a level requirement programmed (Even though the ships themselves cannot be claimed before that same level. It's redundant.)

    I'm hoping the consoles change too, so I can be level 1 and still spit out all sorts of pets and platforms.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    The only question I have.

    Will Ship Mastery start when you first get into the ship at low level or only after level 50?

    I am currently leveling a character in the scaling Shepard Class.

    I am earning mastery XP as I go and I am only level 10. I do recall hearing that the actual passives don't unlock until level 50 but looks like as soon as I get to 50 I'll get those bonuses.
    The one thing I'm concerned about is if we'll be able to use the consoles that come with the ships, since most of them have a level requirement programmed (Even though the ships themselves cannot be claimed before that same level. It's redundant.)

    I'm hoping the consoles change too, so I can be level 1 and still spit out all sorts of pets and platforms.

    In my limited testing, I have been able to use the ship console immediately upon claiming the ship. At least on the Shepard and the Walker, there is no level restriction on the actual console.

    These scaling ships make the game just insanely easy. They're considerably more powerful then any T2 ship I would normally be in.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »

    Excellent, with the right combo of missions one could presumably master several ships before level 50, and have a full set of ship traits right away.

    Surprisingly.. I didn't even think of that.

    That's a really good idea.
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    I understand that it is easiest to start from the top (Tier 6), but i do hope that in the future all ships will scale with level.
    I'd love to fly a vandal with a bit more punch and be satisfied with the scaling to go to T5U.
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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    I understand that it is easiest to start from the top (Tier 6), but i do hope that in the future all ships will scale with level.
    I'd love to fly a vandal with a bit more punch and be satisfied with the scaling to go to T5U.

    I think the goal will be that only Tier 6 ships will work this way. However, I believe they also plan to eventually bring out T6 versions of every ship in the game, but it'll take time. You may still get the opportunity to pilot one.

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  • poddlipoddli Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »

    Excellent, with the right combo of missions one could presumably master several ships before level 50, and have a full set of ship traits right away.


    I think this is unlikely, I've levelled a couple in the new scaling ships. I got nearly to tier 3 mastery in one. The XP required simply isn't given out at the lower levels and by the time you start earning them in meaningful amounts for ship mastery? Boom, you've flown past level 50 anyway.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    poddli wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »

    Excellent, with the right combo of missions one could presumably master several ships before level 50, and have a full set of ship traits right away.


    I think this is unlikely, I've levelled a couple in the new scaling ships. I got nearly to tier 3 mastery in one. The XP required simply isn't given out at the lower levels and by the time you start earning them in meaningful amounts for ship mastery? Boom, you've flown past level 50 anyway.

    Yeah, I think you're right.

    My lowbie is level 13 and is only 1/4 of the way toward T1 mastery.

    Truth is, you can't master ships by just playing the game. You have to do something like Argala loops or some other boring and mind numbing method.. which is the real problem with starship mastery.

    It's definitely time to untangle starship traits from Starship Mastery. Having to grind out a ship for each trait is just painful.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    or they could just put ship kill XP BACK to what it was pre-DR...because dog forbid you actually learn something from killing only a few ships - no, you have to kill the entire forking armada!​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    Remember folks, the general consensus at Cryptic is that you should be earning Mastery XP almost everywhere (with the exception of missions without timers AND infinite spawns). So, if you're noticing a mission that should be rewarding, but isn't, let us know, so we can get it addressed.
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  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,762 Arc User
    I'm not planing on making any more Captains atm, but if I were, I would begin and finish my career with...
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Reliant_Advanced_Light_Cruiser
    Reliant-class_Advanced_Light_Cruiser.jpg

    As a T6, it's no better or worse than any other ship in the game, even in unskilled hands like mine. Might actually be fun to enter TFOs and see nothing but Light Cruiser Winning the Day.:p
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Earning Mastery from Level 10 gives you an extra day to do so before you are Level 50 and can use it. ;)
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    The only question I have.

    Will Ship Mastery start when you first get into the ship at low level or only after level 50?

    Running the event on a lowbie in the vulcan scout and they're getting mastery XP, unlike the previous one, the rate is pretty woeful compared to the usual spots but better than nothing.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    No you don't, I have never even once done an "Argala loop" (which I assume is the do 4 waves and leave thing). I just played the game as I normally would, no different behavior in any way. I did 4 ships on 2 characters a few days ago, no "looping" or anything, a few TFOs, a couple Planet Killer cycles in the BZ, and some ship heavy story missions, like procyon 5.

    With most level requirements for story missions removed now just skip to ones with heavy ship combat.

    Now I could be wrong about being able to master multiple ships while levelling, I can accept that, but come on, Argala isn't neccessary for anything.

    While I have never Argala looped myself, even ignoring Argala on newer toons since it is not a mission requirement anymore (I have done some regular Argala runs in the past though, if I wanted to speed up some leveling and was in the quadrant anyway), the recent "no XP for kills" events/missions have put a serious dent in my normal mastery progress. Since BMR claimed that is not intentional and I am not really finding the time to do much right now, that may be resolved once I start doing stuff again.
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  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @zedbrightlander1 said:
    > I'm not planing on making any more Captains atm, but if I were, I would begin and finish my career with...
    > https://sto.gamepedia.com/Reliant_Advanced_Light_Cruiser
    >
    >
    > As a T6, it's no better or worse than any other ship in the game, even in unskilled hands like mine. Might actually be fun to enter TFOs and see nothing but Light Cruiser Winning the Day.:p

    I have an alt that flies that exclusively. It's a fun ship. Not perfect maybe, but fun. Even with the oddball temporal rep equipment/antimatter damage build I'm running on it.

    And wow, hitting quote on the phone version of browser is fail.
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