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Discovery 2x14: Such Sweet Sorrow p2 (spoilers)

thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User



It's almost time. Any last minute guesses?

The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    smh ... where do we even begin with this?

    Not sure I will continue watching Discovery after this total stinker.

    Good Lord I'm turning into @patrickngo ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ6nF6JKtRc
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Overall, enjoyed. That said, the battle was unnecessarily long for my taste, and I literally burst out laughing when they revealed Spock's face at the end. Don't get me wrong, he's been great this season. But something about that look seems "cheap"? Maybe not the right word, but it just immediately made me think of someone in costume at a Trek convention.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • ricosakararicosakara Member Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Just got done watching the finale.

    Personally, I think they should leave DISCO on this as the series finale, and not a season finale, as it's a great send-off for the Discovery Crew, with Michael Burnham leading them through the temporal wormhole into an unknown future in the 33rd century.

    Plus, ending the series at that point would opening the door for fanfiction about the Discovery's exploits in the 33rd century and beyond.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    Phaser Beams my god finally Phaser beams on the Enterprise again I was so glad they did the TOS phaser beam and not the DISCO ones even tho I do like them but made the Enterprise feel so much Stronger then the other ships we've seen on Discovery , never liked that in the Kelvin timeline the Enterprise Phasers never did anything at all or felt like they could take on anything

    And we actually see them ripping into the ships, not just a beam of light hitting a spot. I'm pretty sure we haven't seen Phasers do damage like that since Wrath of Khan?

    Ethan Peck doesn't have a babyface...he has a Baby's face lol maybe he should of kept the beard lol
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    -The purpose behind each of the signals explained

    And this is the worst part of Season 2. There is absolutely no explanation how Burnham would know about the location of the USS Hiawatha or Terralysium or figure out the secret behind the Kelpiens, time crystals, and the power of Po without the Red Bursts. Burnham's mother as the cause of the Red Bursts would make more sense since she spent years in the future. Knowledge has to be learnt from somewhere and can't be created out of nothing which is what happened with Discovery. The only way it makes sense is that a previous Burnham learned the locations of the USS Hiawatha and Terralysium and figured out the secrets behind the Kelpiens, time crystals, and the power of Po before creating the Red Bursts. So the Red Bursts we saw in Season 2 were not from Burnham, but a previous Burnham that actually spent time to learn what was needed to defeat Control.

    We actually might get a Pike series with the way Season 2 ended. Either Discovery occurs in the future or Season 3 is about Captain Pike and the Enterprise instead of Commander Burnham and the Discovery. If I remember correctly, the first Discovery video said something about new captains, new ships, new crews, and new villains.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    And this is the worst part of Season 2. There is absolutely no explanation how Burnham would know about the location of the USS Hiawatha or Terralysium or figure out the secret behind the Kelpiens, time crystals, and the power of Po without the Red Bursts. Burnham's mother as the cause of the Red Bursts would make more sense since she spent years in the future. Knowledge has to be learnt from somewhere and can't be created out of nothing
    This is incorrect, and the whole reason why bootstrap paradox exists.

    Its exactly the same as the TOS era movie "glasses paradox" where Bones gives Kirk a pair of glasses that Kirk takes back to the past and sells off, ultimately ensuring they are obtained by Bone in the future so he can give them to Kirk, so Kirk can take them back into the past and sell them. The glasses have no origin, they just exist in an endless paradox.

    Doesn't change the fact that it is an extremely idiotic paradox. Everything must have an origin even if it is beyond our limited understanding. If something is trapped in an endless paradox, then it will get older and older the longer it is trapped. So a pair of glasses would eventually turn from an antique to scrap and a Kirk would end up with a pair of 18th Century glasses that are thousands of years old. Of course, this is based on the assumption that the glasses that Kirk pawns are the same glasses that Bones gave to him.
  • lostcause212lostcause212 Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    And this is the worst part of Season 2. There is absolutely no explanation how Burnham would know about the location of the USS Hiawatha or Terralysium or figure out the secret behind the Kelpiens, time crystals, and the power of Po without the Red Bursts. Burnham's mother as the cause of the Red Bursts would make more sense since she spent years in the future. Knowledge has to be learnt from somewhere and can't be created out of nothing
    This is incorrect, and the whole reason why bootstrap paradox exists.

    Its exactly the same as the TOS era movie "glasses paradox" where Bones gives Kirk a pair of glasses that Kirk takes back to the past and sells off, ultimately ensuring they are obtained by Bone in the future so he can give them to Kirk, so Kirk can take them back into the past and sell them. The glasses have no origin, they just exist in an endless paradox.

    Uh... no. Nowhere is it actually stated that the pair of glasses Kirk sells will go on to be the ones McCoy gives him in ST2. That's not quite what his "and they will be again" line means.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I really liked this episode
    -Ash bringing in the Klingon cavalry + Klingon bridge
    -Sec 31 going underground under Ash's leadership
    -Pike joking about his plot armor
    -Conwell's death
    -The purpose behind each of the signals explained
    -Spock without beard and in his uniform
    -No Borg connection with Control

    No borg connection... yet. all those nano probes are doing at this point is remaining stuck on the spore drive room floor and the Borg have a history of time travel. so no connection yet.

    Was wondering when Spock would take that beard off. very similar to John Frakes and his babyface before growing a beard.

    Not sure on "Cornwell's death" per se. She could of been beamed out the moment the explosion went off and it has happened before only to rematerialise half a minute later elsewhere.

    Section 31 isn't going under ground, it was specifically mentioned by the unknown character that greater transparency is required in Section 31 and that all traces of Control were eliminated as well as needing a shake up of the command line. Ash Tyler would become officially part of that as a Commader instead of in name only due to being uniquely suited by his duality of Starfleet and Klingons.

    I don't take anyones word for something without proof to back it up, i never do. in this case there is now proof of Klingons arriving with help from the Ba'ul and Kelpians. Those pesky Klingons, you can't keep them away from Starfleet's dinner plate and vice versa. xD
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
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  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    They went a bit overboard with the battle. What was it, 400 shuttles and fighters? Where were all of these vessels stored? At least half of Discovery's and Enterprise's crew must have been flying these things. Also, control's drones would have come in handy in the Klingon war. Well I guess they were saving them for more important tasks while Earth was about to be attacked and occupied.

    But the most obvious blunder was the death of admiral Cornwell. She has to sacrifice herself and 5 minutes later Enterprise beams Spock back aboard. They couldn't let her close the blastdoor from the inside and beam her out? Pike must have really wanted to get rid of her.

    Overall, everything wrapped up a little too neatly. Stamets and Culbert are back together, Spock and Burnham love each other, control is destroyed for good, Pike is his former self, Spock has rejoined Enterprise's crew, Saru's sister survived, Georgiou survived, the queen survived, the Klingon chancellor survived, Tyler becomes head of section 31... and nobody speaks of the USS Discovery and her spore drive ever again. Not Starfleet, not the Klingons. The writing wasn't exactly superb.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    I really liked this episode
    -Ash bringing in the Klingon cavalry + Klingon bridge
    -Sec 31 going underground under Ash's leadership
    -Pike joking about his plot armor
    -Conwell's death
    -The purpose behind each of the signals explained
    -Spock without beard and in his uniform
    -No Borg connection with Control

    Cornwell's death was totally unnecessary and makes all of them - Pike included - look like idiots. They couldn't beam her out after she pulled the lever? Why couldn't they send in one of those repair R2D2s to pull the manual release? Absolutely horrible, horrible writing.

    If magnets could kill Leland's nanites, why bother shooting him with phasers or punching him? Use the magnet gun thing Tilly used to grab the dark matter from that asteroid on him.

    Battle suffers from battle fatigue - much too long and drawn out.

    Torpedo was blocking transport hence why they couldn't just beam it out into space...Trek trope number 189
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  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,106 Arc User
    Really enjoyed this one, and sorta agree that this is a perfect place to end DSC.

    Also, nice to see 1701 kicking tin and taking names. It seemed like big E was champing a lot more punishment than Disco in that battle.

    And personally, I like neat endings. Loose ends nag me. This was a good, happy ending.

    (But yes, the battle was way too long. Especially given the 'submarine warfare' style to TOS battles, where an engagement lasted maybe a couple of salvos.)
  • rickvic#6033 rickvic Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    Pro : lot of TOS phaser action
    Contra : everything else
    Megacontra : Tilly still alive ( i wish it was her in the torpedo room)
  • rickvic#6033 rickvic Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    ryan218 wrote: »
    Really enjoyed this one, and sorta agree that this is a perfect place to end DSC.

    Also, nice to see 1701 kicking tin and taking names. It seemed like big E was champing a lot more punishment than Disco in that battle.

    And personally, I like neat endings. Loose ends nag me. This was a good, happy ending.

    (But yes, the battle was way too long. Especially given the 'submarine warfare' style to TOS battles, where an engagement lasted maybe a couple of salvos.)

    Also you can't see Tribbles during the battle. The same trainwreck style like this stupid battle in the beginning of EP3

  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    It's strange, during Burnham's final action
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlY0wnd4QE
    , I kept hearing some familiar faint chanting, but I can't quite put my finger on what they actually were...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu7l0d_BnoY

    Oh right, remember when the show kept trying to tell you Burnham is delusional into thinking everything revolves around her? Well, it continues to fail at following this reasoning.


    Also, Cornwell's death is quite high in my list of "freakingly stupid" ones. Not the character's final actions, as they're quite badass but everything surrounding it, from the ridiculously small blast door that is pretty much a basic starship corridor door, due the manual override's location, to the lame effects of the detonation in the room, to Pike not even being shaken, merely bothered by the light while the torpedo blew up about 1 third of the saucer.

    Even the overload of Voyager's Deck 5 in Year of Hell was more convincing and sad, despite having a similar premise and it felt like a much more urgent situation than that.
    Post edited by saurializard on
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    Po warns that she noticed something "off-key" about the Section 31 drones, and explains they had a refracted lattice shield design, and that they could not be taken out one-on-one; they had to be taken out by two ships, attacking the port and starboard shield emitters simultaneously.

    cryptic...refracted lattice shields when?​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Something I'm not clear on: if they knew they had defeated Control why did they still go to the future?

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Something I'm not clear on: if they knew they had defeated Control why did they still go to the future?
    Also, why did they go to the future since the threat originated from it and they don't know when it starts or ended (if it ended in this bad timeline) and there is no way to know if by killing Leland in the present its existence has been negated.

    For all we know, the crew may (will) have made things even worse or even will have created the threat in the first place, and may have saved the present but doomed the future.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    they defeated the part of control possessing leland - control itself is still out there​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    they defeated the part of control possessing leland - control itself is still out there​​

    A: Where was that stated in the show?

    B: if control were still out there, why is no one fighting it in TOS/TMP/TNG/DS9/VOY/etc?

    C: Alex Kurtzman interview:
    Speaking of Section 31, Control seems to be neutralized in the finale, but Discovery is technically taking it into the future with them. Is there a chance it could resurrect in season three?

    All I can tell you is that Control is officially neutralized, but there will be much bigger problems when they get to the other side of that wormhole.

    So regardless of my questions A and B above, Kurtzman says it's officially neutralized.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    'official' is politikspeak for 'this is the truth we're giving you, not what the truth actually is'​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    they defeated the part of control possessing leland - control itself is still out there​​
    And for 4 months, nobody did anything about that?
    Also, Kurtzman has confirmed Control is officially neutralized in the interview link above in this thread, which is consistent since it sent everything to try and get rid of Michael and when it died (pathetically, I need to point out), all S31ships went dead in space.
    #TASforSTO
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    'official' is politikspeak for 'this is the truth we're giving you, not what the truth actually is'​​

    Please see questions A and B from my previous post.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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