notably if you only watched TNG, Kirk is barely acknowledged as having existed most of the time. (and less in DS9 or Voyager). This suggests he's got about the same level of reputation that a lot of medium-level strategists are studied in military academies.
what
DS9 has a whole episode about the crew squeeing about meeting the crew of the Enterprise. Heck, Sisko violated a temporal rule just to get an autograph of Kirk and say it was an honor, and one of the temporal agents said he would have done the same.
TNG started with Kirk being relatively unknown before it was retconned later. Tuvok served under Sulu. Janeway said about Kirk: "a different breed of Starfleet officer." [...] "imagine the era they lived in," noting that "The Alpha Quadrant still largely unexplored. Humanity on verge of war with Klingons. Romulans hiding behind every nebula. Even the technology we take for granted was still in its early stages." [...] "Space must have seemed a whole lot bigger back then. It's not surprising they had to bend the rules a little. They were a little slower to invoke the Prime Directive, and a little quicker to pull their phasers. Of course, the whole bunch of them would be booted out of Starfleet today. But I have to admit, I would have loved to ride shotgun at least once with a group of officers like that."
Icheb recited a report about the ship that described when Kirk concluded his "historic five year mission", that "one of the greatest chapters in Starfleet history came to a close."
Heck, Q Jr even said: "I would've failed him. Kirk may have been a lowly Human, but at least he had pizazz. That report made him sound as interesting as a Vulcan funeral dirge!"
There is also the whole "beat the Kobayashi Maru test" thing.
So in essence, you like the idea of an empty, bland, boring and contrived universe where nothing significant happens to anyone but the characters on the screen, that you can even suspend your disbelief with such a construct...okay, that pretty much kills any conversation right there.
for all your in-depth knowledge that can be derived from wikis, and your strong allegiance to the franchise, your position suggests a complete lack of imagination, there's no 'discussion' in this discussion, you really are completely satisfied with whatever you're fed...whatever,
I'm out.
There are most certainly others doing great things off screen that are not central characters. We just don't hear about them all the time.
We pretty much hear about them almost NONE of the time.
So in essence, you like the idea of an empty, bland, boring and contrived universe where nothing significant happens to anyone but the characters on the screen, that you can even suspend your disbelief with such a construct...okay, that pretty much kills any conversation right there.
for all your in-depth knowledge that can be derived from wikis, and your strong allegiance to the franchise, your position suggests a complete lack of imagination, there's no 'discussion' in this discussion, you really are completely satisfied with whatever you're fed...whatever,
I'm out.
There are most certainly others doing great things off screen that are not central characters. We just don't hear about them all the time.
We pretty much hear about them almost NONE of the time.
Or when we do hear about it, then it becomes that episode's problem to be solved by the central characters.
Or when we do hear about it, then it becomes that episode's problem to be solved by the central characters.
Pretty much.
If any other ship or crew finds something cool you can bet their ship will be disabled/destroyed so the Enterprise can be sent to find them and solve the problem, taking all the credit in the process.
Exactly! Which is why Discovery shouldn't rely on older writing to make their modern stuff. And yes, I'm aware what you were actually trying to point out.
And at least, in the previous series, we had other people doing great things that weren't related to the main characters.
Anything regarding Quark for example, he's part of DS9 and well-loved, but you rarely see him on the Defiant, and many times, he has issues solely with his family or business "partners" not related to the Dominion War, Sisko or the Defiant.
There is also Worf's various issues with the Klingons, like K'Ehleyr and their son and his discommendation that left a big impact to him, but for the rest of the crew, it didn't mean much (at least until things started to escalate much later and caused issues for the whole Federation), just more Klingon affairs.
There is also the tribbles where the species is noted to have been basically wiped out by the Klingons and is considered a ridiculous chapter of their History, before the crew reintroduced it, but this outcome was used as a gag as opposed to an important plot point.
Their only importance to the plot in this episode is that the villain put a bomb in one (and their plot relevance to the original TOS episode). You could remove the tribbles from the DS9 plot and have the bomb placed elsewhere and it'd still work (it'd be less funny and cute, but the results would be the same).
Another example would be the old Klingon trio in DS9, who only brought Jadzia into their plot because of her symbiont's unique life and accomplished their revenge without the rest of the main crew. Then, there is Kor making his heroic sacrifice with no-one of the Defiant crew to stop him.
There is also the Prometheus episode. Sure the Doctor is here, and Voyager has to deal with issues in the Delta Quadrant to make sure he succeeds, but he still manages to stop a crisis by himself and a one-shot character, and it wasn't even his original objective, just a coincidence.
Also, the Breen. They manage to attack Earth and the crew isn't even aware of that until it's too late and the attack is over. And the technobabble that stops the Breen's weapon? It's one Klingon equipped with a red-shirt that provides it and allows the Klingons to continue the fight while the rest of the fleet is curbstomped, including the previously-unstoppable Defiant, and Starfleet and the Romulans have to wait until they can develop a countermeasure of their own.
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DS9 has a whole episode about the crew squeeing about meeting the crew of the Enterprise. Heck, Sisko violated a temporal rule just to get an autograph of Kirk and say it was an honor, and one of the temporal agents said he would have done the same.
TNG started with Kirk being relatively unknown before it was retconned later. Tuvok served under Sulu. Janeway said about Kirk: "a different breed of Starfleet officer." [...] "imagine the era they lived in," noting that "The Alpha Quadrant still largely unexplored. Humanity on verge of war with Klingons. Romulans hiding behind every nebula. Even the technology we take for granted was still in its early stages." [...] "Space must have seemed a whole lot bigger back then. It's not surprising they had to bend the rules a little. They were a little slower to invoke the Prime Directive, and a little quicker to pull their phasers. Of course, the whole bunch of them would be booted out of Starfleet today. But I have to admit, I would have loved to ride shotgun at least once with a group of officers like that."
Icheb recited a report about the ship that described when Kirk concluded his "historic five year mission", that "one of the greatest chapters in Starfleet history came to a close."
Heck, Q Jr even said: "I would've failed him. Kirk may have been a lowly Human, but at least he had pizazz. That report made him sound as interesting as a Vulcan funeral dirge!"
There is also the whole "beat the Kobayashi Maru test" thing.
Or when we do hear about it, then it becomes that episode's problem to be solved by the central characters.
And at least, in the previous series, we had other people doing great things that weren't related to the main characters.
Anything regarding Quark for example, he's part of DS9 and well-loved, but you rarely see him on the Defiant, and many times, he has issues solely with his family or business "partners" not related to the Dominion War, Sisko or the Defiant.
There is also Worf's various issues with the Klingons, like K'Ehleyr and their son and his discommendation that left a big impact to him, but for the rest of the crew, it didn't mean much (at least until things started to escalate much later and caused issues for the whole Federation), just more Klingon affairs.
There is also the tribbles where the species is noted to have been basically wiped out by the Klingons and is considered a ridiculous chapter of their History, before the crew reintroduced it, but this outcome was used as a gag as opposed to an important plot point.
Their only importance to the plot in this episode is that the villain put a bomb in one (and their plot relevance to the original TOS episode). You could remove the tribbles from the DS9 plot and have the bomb placed elsewhere and it'd still work (it'd be less funny and cute, but the results would be the same).
Another example would be the old Klingon trio in DS9, who only brought Jadzia into their plot because of her symbiont's unique life and accomplished their revenge without the rest of the main crew. Then, there is Kor making his heroic sacrifice with no-one of the Defiant crew to stop him.
There is also the Prometheus episode. Sure the Doctor is here, and Voyager has to deal with issues in the Delta Quadrant to make sure he succeeds, but he still manages to stop a crisis by himself and a one-shot character, and it wasn't even his original objective, just a coincidence.
Also, the Breen. They manage to attack Earth and the crew isn't even aware of that until it's too late and the attack is over. And the technobabble that stops the Breen's weapon? It's one Klingon equipped with a red-shirt that provides it and allows the Klingons to continue the fight while the rest of the fleet is curbstomped, including the previously-unstoppable Defiant, and Starfleet and the Romulans have to wait until they can develop a countermeasure of their own.