I've been in the game long enough to remember the random drop system and how much I despised it.
I got the first two tech drops for my MkXII Ground set within a week, then it took me six months to get the final piece despite running it on average once a day.
And watching the team leader (who'd already completed their set with ease) get something like their sixth or tenth unnecessary tech drop instead of the one who needed it.
And instead of moving onto my second character, I basically rejected the idea of doing so and just ignored all STF queues until they revamped the rewards to the current reward system which eliminates random drop in favor of guaranteed.
In my personal experience, I commend STO for moving away from the random drop reward, because in those mmos that still use it (Campions Online, Defiance/Defiance 2050), I just got so bored of playing the game for no items that I eventually quit them completely, because any amount of time given to loot collecting was just wasted effort/time.
So I place no merit on the opinion that random drops encourage gameplay, they just discourage it.
In terms of the ground queues being unpopular, in my personal experience, most STO players are afraid of ground combat, because they don't like getting out of their spaceships. So the reward method has nothing to do with the players shunning this area.
I know for a fact I will get a space queue launched much faster then the equivalent ground queue.
In some cases, I've waited 1 hour or more for a ground queue that never launched.
Now back to the Tommy Gun, I am indeed looking forward to using this on the Borg.
It's a shame we can't have more then one, as it would be fun to have an all kinetic squad machine-gunning down the Borg when we fight them.
I might even go to Defera Invasion Zone and just have fun shooting the Borg by myself!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Read my post above, you can claim a second but it will not be upgradable at all.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I always thought this was some kind of urban legend. I have never, ever experienced that. Maybe you just hung out with a toxic crowd?
I didn't hang out with anyone.
Just going to DS9 back in those days you could easily see a handful of people in full MACO/OMEGA/Honor Guard gear holding what amounted to auctions in the Task Force Omega room on who could give up the most in order to get the privilege of getting a run through the Borg TFOs for the chance of getting a drop.
I never ran into this. I'd always hit up zone back then with a LFG. Took all of about 5 minutes to get a party together. Even less time if you, or knew someone, that could tank Armek.
Surprised to hear that, I remember it exactly as somtaawkhar described. It was mostly on DS9, but near the end of that system, people were asking some pretty exorbitant prices to run them through queues. There were channels at the time where you could get people to run through them with you for fun, they were mostly trying to extort players that didn't know any better.
If anyone was lazy enough to pay for a nanny run, they got exactly what they bargained for. STFs were never that hard to pug.
In fact I'd say your average pug KGE or IGE was far more likely to be successful back then, because the game wasn't yet going out of it's way to pander to people who don't want to play it and as a result most players would at least care enough to manage simple teamplay like "click the 3 consoles at the same time" and "shoot the node when I turn off the shield from the other room."
In the end, it's a trade off. Yes, the unique reward did make the queues more active, but it made them far more frustrating and far less fun. I can see the argument that a unique chance reward drives up activity, but that activity is horrifically repetitive and frustrating. Ultimately, it leads to players just giving up which is what I did on that system. I came back full time during LoR when a system had been put in place that was actually fun and made me feel like I accomplished something.
That's subjective. IMO the random drops were far more fun than the work-ish grind of spoilmarks and being able to buy the gear at any time ultimately means I never have any compelling reason actually get it at all.
The difference of course being, that I actually want to play my videogames and be rewarded for winning against the odds, not just clock in for X minutes a day for free stuff.
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
(...)
The difference of course being, that I actually want to play my videogames and be rewarded for winning against the odds, not just clock in for X minutes a day for free stuff.
I think this is what it boils down to. All the horror stories and "everybody hated it" aside, I played Diablo, I played early WoW and I still play games that actually allow me to fail even (ever had your best Colonel in UFO leave the Skyranger just to get insta-one shotted by a Cyberdisc? Yeah, those were games at one point ). Subjectively, the drops were a better alternative for quite a few players and also, quite a few players understand that the best gear was not mandatory to get, nor were they entitled to it.
It wasn't perfect. STO has inherent design flaws in it's loot system (as in, there is no loot to begin with) and just hunting for one drop as opposed to numerous drops that you could maybe use on alts was also not the best way they could have handled that. But I find the "window shopping" version to be rather boring.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I think the shotgun is sawed-off in the movie and Tommy guns weren't that big either when they were a thing. Easy to hide, quick to pull out and spray bullets.
I'm not sure this is exactly the right size but it's at least pretty close.
(...)
The difference of course being, that I actually want to play my videogames and be rewarded for winning against the odds, not just clock in for X minutes a day for free stuff.
I think this is what it boils down to. All the horror stories and "everybody hated it" aside, I played Diablo, I played early WoW and I still play games that actually allow me to fail even (ever had your best Colonel in UFO leave the Skyranger just to get insta-one shotted by a Cyberdisc? Yeah, those were games at one point ). Subjectively, the drops were a better alternative for quite a few players and also, quite a few players understand that the best gear was not mandatory to get, nor were they entitled to it.
It wasn't perfect. STO has inherent design flaws in it's loot system (as in, there is no loot to begin with) and just hunting for one drop as opposed to numerous drops that you could maybe use on alts was also not the best way they could have handled that. But I find the "window shopping" version to be rather boring.
This was me in WoW.
Other players: "We need a way to get raid level gear outside of raids."
Me: "Are you raiding?"
Others: "No, we aren't."
Me: "Then, you don't need raid level gear."
Incentive - "You have to work for it."
No incentive - "Everyone gets the same thing, no matter what."
This is where fail condition are actually a good thing. You have to learn how not to fail, in order to get through it. STO preys upon the sense of entitlement. You can't fail, and you can get the same gear as everyone else, just for showing up. Just change the name of Reputations, to Entitlements, in your mind and you'll understand what I mean.
For example, take the players from STO and put them in Age of Conan. Right now, with the new Conan: Unconquered RTS on the horizon, they're running an Unconquered in AoC. This is to level from 1 to 80 without dying, for some titles and vanity armor/weapons. But it's a game that is brutally efficient at killing you, I've had to delete and restart my Unconquered charater 7 times so far because of this. Imagine the salt that would pour forth from the STO players if they had to endure something like this.
Holding an automatic weapon in the hip fire position like this, the weapon would be dancing all over the place. Absolutely no support what so ever.
That's true of most full-auto TBH. It's why it's called "spray and pray". With practice you learn how to anticipate the kick enough to preemptively correct, but your accuracy is never good when firing hand-held full-auto.
Uzis, for example, were notorious for "walk up", IE each shot hit slightly above the previous one. So if you were firing, you'd aim a bit low and at least one shot would probably hit center of mass.
Holding an automatic weapon in the hip fire position like this, the weapon would be dancing all over the place. Absolutely no support what so ever.
That's true of most full-auto TBH. It's why it's called "spray and pray". With practice you learn how to anticipate the kick enough to preemptively correct, but your accuracy is never good when firing hand-held full-auto.
Uzis, for example, were notorious for "walk up", IE each shot hit slightly above the previous one. So if you were firing, you'd aim a bit low and at least one shot would probably hit center of mass.
True. But the Thompson submachine gun, was loved for it's accuracy. Oh all the submachine guns it's in the top 10, if not 5 most accurate in the world. It wasn't the spray and pray type that we know.
Holding an automatic weapon in the hip fire position like this, the weapon would be dancing all over the place. Absolutely no support what so ever.
That's true of most full-auto TBH. It's why it's called "spray and pray". With practice you learn how to anticipate the kick enough to preemptively correct, but your accuracy is never good when firing hand-held full-auto.
Uzis, for example, were notorious for "walk up", IE each shot hit slightly above the previous one. So if you were firing, you'd aim a bit low and at least one shot would probably hit center of mass.
True. But the Thompson submachine gun, was loved for it's accuracy. Oh all the submachine guns it's in the top 10, if not 5 most accurate in the world. It wasn't the spray and pray type that we know.
Use a SAW right and you can hit a can at 50 meters. It just requires having the skill to control it precisely.
I don't bother using tricks to get second weapons if the game was never intended to give out duplicates in the first place, it's cheating the system.
Also, it would only grant one unmodifiable duplicate and I'd need at least 4 modifiable duplicates to give out to my BOFF team.
5 counting the one I am using myself.
I didn't think the Thompson Submachine gun was terribly accurate, I thought it was the gun used for people who couldn't bother aiming, basically just point in the direction of whatever you are shooting and some of the bullets will hit the target.
That for precision, one shot from a regular gun in the hands of a skilled marksperson would achieve the same result as the entire drum of ammo from the Thompson.
Uzis or Mac-10s?
Those weapons get confused a lot.
I do remember that Mac-10s required the user to grip the leather strap hanging from the barrel, otherwise, each successive shot would push the barrel slightly higher due to recoil and only the first shot would be on target precisely.
Disregard Tomb Raider physics where Lara is dual-wielding Mac-10s, unless you have bionic arms, you can't do that in real life.....
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
> @trennan said:
> markhawkman wrote: »
>
> trennan wrote: »
>
> Holding an automatic weapon in the hip fire position like this, the weapon would be dancing all over the place. Absolutely no support what so ever.
>
>
>
> That's true of most full-auto TBH. It's why it's called "spray and pray". With practice you learn how to anticipate the kick enough to preemptively correct, but your accuracy is never good when firing hand-held full-auto.
>
> Uzis, for example, were notorious for "walk up", IE each shot hit slightly above the previous one. So if you were firing, you'd aim a bit low and at least one shot would probably hit center of mass.
>
>
>
>
> True. But the Thompson submachine gun, was loved for it's accuracy. Oh all the submachine guns it's in the top 10, if not 5 most accurate in the world. It wasn't the spray and pray type that we know.
Funny, in Fallout 4 there is a unique Thompson named Spray n Pray.
The Thompson was favored by soldiers, criminals, police, FBI, and civilians alike for its large .45 ACP cartridge, accuracy, and high volume of fully automatic fire.
The Thompson submachine gun was also known informally as the "Tommy Gun", "Annihilator", "Chicago Typewriter", "Chicago Submachine", "Chicago Piano", "Chicago Style", "Chicago Organ Grinder", "Trench Broom", "Trench Sweeper", "Drum Gun","The Chopper", and simply "The Thompson".
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Because my main already has all specs maxed out and many spare spec points the spec point which is supposed to be awarded was basically non-existent for me, I wish they made the spec point an account bound box but I guess that is expecting too much.
The bottom picture here, really shows how bad the character model is for this.
Right arm: Broken wrist, disjointed elbow, possible dislocated should.
Left Arm: Shoulder straight and elbow tucked.
Holding an automatic weapon in the hip fire position like this, the weapon would be dancing all over the place. Absolutely no support what so ever.
lol... you know that this is a holographic weapon, right? It behaves like the programmer wants it to behave.
And even a replica for duty (in the 25th century) would certainly be modified to not have any of the original disadvantages.
"We might get pretty singed at that range, but not as singed as they're going to get. Engage."
- Captain Six of Nine aka Ashley "Don't Call Me Ash" Campbell
The bottom picture here, really shows how bad the character model is for this.
Right arm: Broken wrist, disjointed elbow, possible dislocated should.
Left Arm: Shoulder straight and elbow tucked.
Holding an automatic weapon in the hip fire position like this, the weapon would be dancing all over the place. Absolutely no support what so ever.
lol... you know that this is a holographic weapon, right? It behaves like the programmer wants it to behave.
And even a replica for duty (in the 25th century) would certainly be modified to not have any of the original disadvantages.
If it's an account unlock, 'new' toons have to be leveled to 10 and participate at least once to claim it before the event ends, or they just have to be created before the event ends ?
After putting it off for a while, I for around to creating a TOS character but I don't think I'll have it levelled to 10 tonight to participate 4 times to claim it on that toon if it's a character unlock.
You go to the dil store reclaim tab to reclaim it for other characters.
You have to do the event on at least one character and claim it on that character.
You can make a new toon years after the event ends and as long as at least one character went through it, you can reclaim it on new toons.
I do this all the time. Especially for Event ships.
TY, I hate rushing thru missions while I'm half asleep to try to claim some of these unique rewards. I've spent years waiting for another chance to claim that Ar'Kif my Rom couldn't claim because of level restrictions, and I keep missing it.
Have they invented a way to transfer lockbox ships to other toons yet ? My old MU star cruiser would like to see daylight again on my TOS toon one day.
Comments
I got the first two tech drops for my MkXII Ground set within a week, then it took me six months to get the final piece despite running it on average once a day.
And watching the team leader (who'd already completed their set with ease) get something like their sixth or tenth unnecessary tech drop instead of the one who needed it.
And instead of moving onto my second character, I basically rejected the idea of doing so and just ignored all STF queues until they revamped the rewards to the current reward system which eliminates random drop in favor of guaranteed.
In my personal experience, I commend STO for moving away from the random drop reward, because in those mmos that still use it (Campions Online, Defiance/Defiance 2050), I just got so bored of playing the game for no items that I eventually quit them completely, because any amount of time given to loot collecting was just wasted effort/time.
So I place no merit on the opinion that random drops encourage gameplay, they just discourage it.
In terms of the ground queues being unpopular, in my personal experience, most STO players are afraid of ground combat, because they don't like getting out of their spaceships. So the reward method has nothing to do with the players shunning this area.
I know for a fact I will get a space queue launched much faster then the equivalent ground queue.
In some cases, I've waited 1 hour or more for a ground queue that never launched.
Now back to the Tommy Gun, I am indeed looking forward to using this on the Borg.
It's a shame we can't have more then one, as it would be fun to have an all kinetic squad machine-gunning down the Borg when we fight them.
I might even go to Defera Invasion Zone and just have fun shooting the Borg by myself!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
In fact I'd say your average pug KGE or IGE was far more likely to be successful back then, because the game wasn't yet going out of it's way to pander to people who don't want to play it and as a result most players would at least care enough to manage simple teamplay like "click the 3 consoles at the same time" and "shoot the node when I turn off the shield from the other room."
That's subjective. IMO the random drops were far more fun than the work-ish grind of spoilmarks and being able to buy the gear at any time ultimately means I never have any compelling reason actually get it at all.
The difference of course being, that I actually want to play my videogames and be rewarded for winning against the odds, not just clock in for X minutes a day for free stuff.
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I think this is what it boils down to. All the horror stories and "everybody hated it" aside, I played Diablo, I played early WoW and I still play games that actually allow me to fail even (ever had your best Colonel in UFO leave the Skyranger just to get insta-one shotted by a Cyberdisc? Yeah, those were games at one point
It wasn't perfect. STO has inherent design flaws in it's loot system (as in, there is no loot to begin with) and just hunting for one drop as opposed to numerous drops that you could maybe use on alts was also not the best way they could have handled that. But I find the "window shopping" version to be rather boring.
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My character Tsin'xing
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
This was me in WoW.
Other players: "We need a way to get raid level gear outside of raids."
Me: "Are you raiding?"
Others: "No, we aren't."
Me: "Then, you don't need raid level gear."
Incentive - "You have to work for it."
No incentive - "Everyone gets the same thing, no matter what."
This is where fail condition are actually a good thing. You have to learn how not to fail, in order to get through it. STO preys upon the sense of entitlement. You can't fail, and you can get the same gear as everyone else, just for showing up. Just change the name of Reputations, to Entitlements, in your mind and you'll understand what I mean.
For example, take the players from STO and put them in Age of Conan. Right now, with the new Conan: Unconquered RTS on the horizon, they're running an Unconquered in AoC. This is to level from 1 to 80 without dying, for some titles and vanity armor/weapons. But it's a game that is brutally efficient at killing you, I've had to delete and restart my Unconquered charater 7 times so far because of this. Imagine the salt that would pour forth from the STO players if they had to endure something like this.
My character Tsin'xing
*^_^* \\//,
The bottom picture here, really shows how bad the character model is for this.
Right arm: Broken wrist, disjointed elbow, possible dislocated should.
Left Arm: Shoulder straight and elbow tucked.
Holding an automatic weapon in the hip fire position like this, the weapon would be dancing all over the place. Absolutely no support what so ever.
Uzis, for example, were notorious for "walk up", IE each shot hit slightly above the previous one. So if you were firing, you'd aim a bit low and at least one shot would probably hit center of mass.
My character Tsin'xing
Thanks, Mark...I had to fill the project on all my characters, after all. The toy rocket 🚀was still in the rep project.
LOL! It was under the TFO event, that was why I thought it was missing. I had not scrolled down in the little window.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
True. But the Thompson submachine gun, was loved for it's accuracy. Oh all the submachine guns it's in the top 10, if not 5 most accurate in the world. It wasn't the spray and pray type that we know.
My character Tsin'xing
Also, it would only grant one unmodifiable duplicate and I'd need at least 4 modifiable duplicates to give out to my BOFF team.
5 counting the one I am using myself.
I didn't think the Thompson Submachine gun was terribly accurate, I thought it was the gun used for people who couldn't bother aiming, basically just point in the direction of whatever you are shooting and some of the bullets will hit the target.
That for precision, one shot from a regular gun in the hands of a skilled marksperson would achieve the same result as the entire drum of ammo from the Thompson.
Uzis or Mac-10s?
Those weapons get confused a lot.
I do remember that Mac-10s required the user to grip the leather strap hanging from the barrel, otherwise, each successive shot would push the barrel slightly higher due to recoil and only the first shot would be on target precisely.
Disregard Tomb Raider physics where Lara is dual-wielding Mac-10s, unless you have bionic arms, you can't do that in real life.....
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The Thompson was favored by soldiers, criminals, police, FBI, and civilians alike for its large .45 ACP cartridge, accuracy, and high volume of fully automatic fire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun
The Thompson submachine gun was also known informally as the "Tommy Gun", "Annihilator", "Chicago Typewriter", "Chicago Submachine", "Chicago Piano", "Chicago Style", "Chicago Organ Grinder", "Trench Broom", "Trench Sweeper", "Drum Gun","The Chopper", and simply "The Thompson".
you also can't slice out a circular section in a wooden floor by spinning around with a pair of Uzis* - didn't stop hollywood doing it in Underworld
* and yes, someone actually tested this
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
^_^ V Love it.
lol... you know that this is a holographic weapon, right? It behaves like the programmer wants it to behave.
And even a replica for duty (in the 25th century) would certainly be modified to not have any of the original disadvantages.
Thank you! *^_^*
If it's an account unlock, 'new' toons have to be leveled to 10 and participate at least once to claim it before the event ends, or they just have to be created before the event ends ?
After putting it off for a while, I for around to creating a TOS character but I don't think I'll have it levelled to 10 tonight to participate 4 times to claim it on that toon if it's a character unlock.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
You have to do the event on at least one character and claim it on that character.
I do this all the time. Especially for Event ships.
TY, I hate rushing thru missions while I'm half asleep to try to claim some of these unique rewards. I've spent years waiting for another chance to claim that Ar'Kif my Rom couldn't claim because of level restrictions, and I keep missing it.
Have they invented a way to transfer lockbox ships to other toons yet ? My old MU star cruiser would like to see daylight again on my TOS toon one day.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG